To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
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Instead of a freighter, can we build a cargo ship in the Rigellian berth?
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
[X][PRIORITY] Apiata should improve Bulk Cargo shipping in long term
[X][UES] Refit the United Earth's Excelsior
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
@OneirosTheWriter is there wear and tear in the civilian shipping? that is to say do they have a life expectancy or it is abstracted? because if the ships age, we'd need to know the average age of our civilian freighters and how many are already long in the tooth...
[X][UES] Refit the United Earth's Excelsior
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
@OneirosTheWriter is there wear and tear in the civilian shipping? that is to say do they have a life expectancy or it is abstracted? because if the ships age, we'd need to know the average age of our civilian freighters and how many are already long in the tooth...
[X][PRIORITY] Apiata should improve Bulk Cargo shipping in long term
[X][UES] Refit the United Earth's Excelsior
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
Our needs will grow by the time our current spate of shipping has finished building. Looking at how much we're currently in the hole is too short term. We need about half again for four years of colonies, ships, and income.
[X][UES] Refit the United Earth's Excelsior
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
Our needs will grow by the time our current spate of shipping has finished building. Looking at how much we're currently in the hole is too short term. We need about half again for four years of colonies, ships, and income.
[X][PRIORITY] Apiata should improve Bulk Cargo shipping in long term
[X][UES] Refit the United Earth's Excelsior
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
This vote kinda encapsulates what I want on this. The Riala-A changes are really nice for what I expect the Riala is REALLY for.
Don't tell Stesk *Sees sudden Orange Text* Huh...MINE! *Grabs Orange Power Ring*
[X][UES] Refit the United Earth's Excelsior
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
This vote kinda encapsulates what I want on this. The Riala-A changes are really nice for what I expect the Riala is REALLY for.
Don't tell Stesk *Sees sudden Orange Text* Huh...MINE! *Grabs Orange Power Ring*
- Location
- Tarn-Vedra
[X][PRIORITY] Apiata should improve Bulk Cargo shipping in long term
[X][UES] Refit the United Earth's Excelsior
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
[X][UES] Refit the United Earth's Excelsior
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
[X][PRIORITY] Apiata should improve Bulk Cargo shipping in long term
[X][UES] Refit the United Earth's Excelsior
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
[X][UES] Refit the United Earth's Excelsior
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
I understand where and how you got those numbers but they seem off to me. Starfleet currently has demand for 33 Cargo Ships and 16 Freighters. Even assuming your "half again" refers to our deficient of 10 & 8 would mean needing an additional 5 Cargo Ships and 4 Freighters. That is a 15% and 25% growth in Cargo Ships and Freighters respectively in just four years.
I get that the Federation is in the middle of a massive expansion but that seems a bit high to me. At that sort of growth rates I'd have expected the logistics problem to be much worse then it currently is.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
[X][PRIORITY] Apiata should improve Bulk Cargo shipping in long term
[X][UES] Build new Miranda-A
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
[X][UES] Build new Miranda-A
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
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pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Stesk shouldn't be particularly annoyed.
The combat mod Riala-A is only a subpar generalist by bleeding-edge Starfleet capital standards.
It's better as a responder than an original model Excelsior.
The science model is a damn fine ship and if we had access to Rialas I'd be writing in []Both because it's a pretty much a straight upgrade to the Excelsior-A. Not kidding, it loses 1 C for 2 H, 2 L and 1D. Response capabilities are superior in all in aspects and it's better in battle, too.
For whatever reason the Amarki seem to be better at capital ship design than Starfleet. The original Riala was fairly competitive with the Excelsior as a garrison ship and better as a warship, the science model has the same S and P as an Excelsior-A but better D and can outfight it handily, and the combat model is still a good responder and an utter monster in battle.
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Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
5pp is a very low cost, and while we don't know how bad the Logistics problem is we know we're underwater. The extra freighter may be highly valuable and costs us very little comparitively.
For me, the cost of "damn that extra freighter would be nice" is more painful than "damn, we're down 5pp" and I consider the former a more likely problem than the latter.
Cargo ship would be preferable, buy I trust the SF Logistics is asking about a freighter for a reason.
[X][PRIORITY] Apiata should improve Bulk Cargo shipping in long term
[X][UES] Refit the United Earth's Excelsior
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
Last edited:
The Riala-A is a significantly more modern ship design than the Excelsior-A. If you want to compare it to something, compare it to the Ambassador, that design is of roughly the same vintage.
And i think the original Riala was also a more modern design than the stock Excelsior.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
[X][PRIORITY] Apiata should improve Bulk Cargo shipping in long term
[X][UES] Refit the United Earth's Excelsior
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
Worth it just to be able to say we're working on the problem, and I find it very hard to believe our hole won't grow by at least a freighter before we catch up.
[X][UES] Refit the United Earth's Excelsior
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
Worth it just to be able to say we're working on the problem, and I find it very hard to believe our hole won't grow by at least a freighter before we catch up.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
[X][PRIORITY] Apiata should improve Bulk Cargo shipping in long term
More Apiata shipping might even free up more Apiata engineering ships. We could use those... well, we HAVE work bees, so I'm going to call the Apiata engineering ships foreman-bees. Forewoman-bees? Something like that.
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
The Rialas are battleships, and there is a certain unique, cultural glory in the Amarki continuing as warriors building fighting ships even though they are members of a peaceful Federation. I say to them "don't change," and this is what 'not changing' would look like.
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
This is predicated on the assumption that we can make this investment without too badly screwing up our own research plans. But
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
More Apiata shipping might even free up more Apiata engineering ships. We could use those... well, we HAVE work bees, so I'm going to call the Apiata engineering ships foreman-bees. Forewoman-bees? Something like that.
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
The Rialas are battleships, and there is a certain unique, cultural glory in the Amarki continuing as warriors building fighting ships even though they are members of a peaceful Federation. I say to them "don't change," and this is what 'not changing' would look like.
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
This is predicated on the assumption that we can make this investment without too badly screwing up our own research plans. But
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
It increases the likelihood that various member races will have special resources available to trade to us at a future time. It MIGHT have in-game spinoff benefits like making it less necessary to haul a certain special resource around (reducing cargo requirements) or allowing Starfleet to set up a synthesis plant (say, one that burns bulk resources, political will, or both to create an SR trickle).
Because it doesn't cost very much, intuitively I (for one) don't think we're likely to get a much better deal than 'build freighter for 5pp,' and if this turns out to be a mistake it's a small mistake that I'm not afraid of making.
- Location
- Infraspace
[X][PRIORITY] Apiata should improve Bulk Cargo shipping in long term
[X][UES] Refit the United Earth's Excelsior
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
[X][UES] Refit the United Earth's Excelsior
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The Riala and Excelsior seem to be of comparable age. Not that big a difference in design completion and the UFP had a bunch more resources to apply to design and construction. The Riala-A is a slightly newer REFIT. Comparing it to a brand new design is silly.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
That's really promising. Curious to see what the Brieca and Calac refits look like.
If we ever ratify a more martial and non-swarm-doctrine member like the Amarki, we should seriously consider discussing sharing Amarki designs with them. They're pretty badass.
@OneirosTheWriter, can we also see the new member fleet incomes?
Well this is a really interesting idea.
I'm kinda half expecting the Apiata to ignore this like the Amarki did the last time we suggested cargo shipping prioritization, but I'm also curious to see what type of new ship they'll design for this if they do accept it. Chances are, they might construct something akin to the Forager: a dual purpose ship that serves both standard (science ship) and auxiliary (prospector) roles.
I'm not sure if they actually need it though, because we know from older GBZ status reports that their engineering projects are very optimized to be bulk-light. For example, check this 2313 construction and note the Starfleet vs Apiata outpost resource construction costs:
That's Starfleet's 100b 40s vs Apiata's 75b 75s.
I'll vote for it regardless, since I am curious what'll come out of it. And I can't think of a better priority at the moment.
Because it's not just cargo shipping that we need - it's other auxiliary ships like hospital ships and engineering ships. Using up a member fleet berth on a cargo shipping allows us to use another berth for another type of auxiliary that we want.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
[X][PRIORITY] Apiata should improve Bulk Cargo shipping in long term
As just discussed above, I'm not sure if they quite need this with how they optimize their engineering projects and ship designs, but curious to see what'll come out of it. In particular, hoping for a unique dual-purpose ship like the Forager (science ship + prospector).
[X][UES] Build new Miranda-A
I'm mostly indifferent on this one. I think UES has a shortage of hulls at the moment, so a cheap Miranda-A will help, but the Excelsior-A refit is also pretty attractive.
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
The Amarki call their Riala's battlecruisers for a reason.
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
We have a surplus of rp and member fleets sorely need more resource income. Plus as noted by others, if we had this opportunity ourselves, we would've taken it.
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
5pp is a relative pittance with our huge pp surplus. Plus, we want to get ahead of our cargo shipping hole as quickly as possible so we can devote more berths to other auxiliary ships we want like hospital ships and engineering ships.
As just discussed above, I'm not sure if they quite need this with how they optimize their engineering projects and ship designs, but curious to see what'll come out of it. In particular, hoping for a unique dual-purpose ship like the Forager (science ship + prospector).
[X][UES] Build new Miranda-A
I'm mostly indifferent on this one. I think UES has a shortage of hulls at the moment, so a cheap Miranda-A will help, but the Excelsior-A refit is also pretty attractive.
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
The Amarki call their Riala's battlecruisers for a reason.
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
We have a surplus of rp and member fleets sorely need more resource income. Plus as noted by others, if we had this opportunity ourselves, we would've taken it.
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
5pp is a relative pittance with our huge pp surplus. Plus, we want to get ahead of our cargo shipping hole as quickly as possible so we can devote more berths to other auxiliary ships we want like hospital ships and engineering ships.
The Riala is a 2295 design and the Excelsior is a 2287 design. 8 years. In a time when technology advances fast enough that there is only a 28 year spam between the Excelsior and the Ambassador that is quite a difference.
Consider that it has only been 10 years between the design of the Centaur-A and the Kepler, and the later is pretty much set to outclass the former in almost everything.
aledeth
The Flesh is Weak
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X][PRIORITY] Apiata should improve Bulk Cargo shipping in long term
[X][UES] Refit the United Earth's Excelsior
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
[X][UES] Refit the United Earth's Excelsior
[X][RIALA] Gain C2 S1 H1 L2
[X][SR] Invest (-40rp, 1 year project)
[X][RIGEL] Build Freighter (5pp)
Not a fair comparison between the Centaur-A and Kepler, they're designed under completely different circumstances and with different game systems.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
[X] Nix
5 pp is half of a colony, which has a better ROI.
5 pp is half of a colony, which has a better ROI.