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The minor colony layer was hidden for some reason, fixed now.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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- Sci-Fi
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- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
I'm good for it, just as long as if they die in the game they don't die
Bajor seems weirdly underdefended for how exposed and resource-rich it is. Would have expected at least an Outpost.
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It probably does, perhaps even a Starbase, but it was never explicitly mentioned anywhere so the map doesn't include it.
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- Actually pretty lost
But then they'd have to expend lots of resources on people who aren't Cardassians.
Terok Nor canonically had minimal defenses until the Federation upgraded it to defend against the Dominion. Odds are the Cardassians aren't too committed to defending it despite it's resource potential. It actually makes sense if you think about it; unless the Cardassians have been treating the Bajors a lot better then canon* it would represent a massive humanitarian aid crisis for the Federation. A perfect trap for us since the Federation would either have to divert large amounts of resources (vulnerable to wolfpacks originating out of Balogot and Galundun) or ignore them and prove that the Federation's high minded ideals are nothing but lies.
*There was an omake related to this IIRC but I kinda skimmed it and we have no idea how canon it is.
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- Mid-Atlantic
How does the fact that one tech from now, two-megaton berths get "promoted" to be Excelsior-compatible affect your analysis?
It warms my heart to see you post something like this.
The short answer is that we did, but we only got so many designated auxiliary berths. We need so many freighters that we're seriously considering using our normal berths to build some more, especially since freighters of the largest type don't even fit in the designated auxiliary berths.
Post-scarcity supercharged civilian economy in action, I guess?
The Bajorans themselves probably didn't have more than outpost-level fortifications. The Cardassians may have wanted to wait a while before establishing a starbase of their own, and for that matter may only now be beginning to grasp how resource-rich the planet is, half a decade after muscling in on it. But yeah, I think we can expect Terok Nor to go up any time now.
I'm not sure the Cardassians understand us that well. Also, the occupation still has a long way to go before it leaves the Bajorans really screwed up. The horrors of the Occupation we saw referenced in Deep Space Nine are 'due' to happen roughly thirty, forty, or fifty years in the future; for reference, Kira Nerys would be celebrating her negative twenty-sixth birthday some time next year.
Frankly, if Bajor is a key resource node for the Cardassians they have to defend it, if only to stop random raiding squadrons from disrupting their mining operations and ability to sustain an occupation of the planet. The easy explanation in canon would be that Terok Nor was the headquarters of the Occupation and the site from which its troops deployed, but that there were separate orbital weapons platforms to defend the planet against raiding ships. Then the Cardassians could have simply removed the weapons platforms or scuttled them instead of handing them over to the Bajorans, possibly before they even formally ended the Occupation.
Or, alternatively, the Cardassians may have simply relied heavily on their fleet to stay in orbit around the planet and secure it from attack.
It was ultimately still comparatively amiable, but with the first steps down the slippery slope of iron-handed oppression already visible.
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It's not an analysis, just a numerical expression of a subjective judgement. Obviously I was aware of the tech when making that judgement. It's probably at least 10 years away from completion (this would be assuming prioritizing it over T3 ejection parts and T4 hulls among other things, but not over T3 frames which would IMO be unreasonable at this point, and prioritizing as highly as this would assume isn't a no-brainer either). I don't particularly expect to still be building many Excelsiors at that point though the option wouldn't exactly hurt.
Adding a new 1mt berth to our various existing shipyards comes out to:
Utopia Planitia - 28pp
40 Eridani A Shipyards - 18pp
San Francisco Fleet Yards - 14pp
Ana Font Shipyard - 14pp
Lor'Vela Orbital Construction Facility - 14pp
Of course it's worth noting the UP expansion does include a 3mt berth so it's cost isn't really reflective of the true cost.40 Eridani A Shipyards - 18pp
San Francisco Fleet Yards - 14pp
Ana Font Shipyard - 14pp
Lor'Vela Orbital Construction Facility - 14pp
If we're willing to build new shipyards the following offer 1mt berths:
Amarkia - 33pp
Indoria - 18pp
With Amarkia including a 3mt berth like UP so it's not really reflective of the true price of a 1mt berth either.Indoria - 18pp
Going off your figure of 2mt berths being 30% more valuable then 1mt berths and the cheapest 1mt berth costing 14pp it would be logical to build 2mt berths until the marginal cost exceeds 18.2pp. That would result in the construction of a pair of 2mt berths costing 11pp and 16pp respectively.
Putting 3mt berths at being 50% more valuable then 2mt berths means that with the cheapest 3mt berth costing 22pp we should buy 2mt berths until their marginal cost hits 14.7pp. That would promote the building of at just one 2mt berth. However if we just consider the cost of expansions rather then new shipyards the cheapest 3mt berth is 28pp which raising the marginal cost threshold to 18.6pp or two berths.
So either way your own estimations of the valuation of 2mt berths compared to 1mt and 3mt berths says we should build at least a pair of 2mt berths at Utopia Planita.
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- Actually pretty lost
Hey, maybe we can use one of our next intel reports for a "map update"? Basically, have @OneirosTheWriter sit down with you for 20 minutes and explicitly go through the map, explicitly telling us everything the Federation knows about - and maybe some new stuff it didn't before, as part of the report?
Don't get me wrong, your maps are awesome, but it seems odd to me that we don't know if a Starbase exists or not until it shows up. It makes planning harder.
Kolar
Is Not A Robot
I think you misquoted, because I was talking about Budget increases, not listening posts.
In reference to the expanded Cardassian front analysis.
So, we obviously don't have costings yet, but do we want to do a general toughening of the all possible fronts, or focus our efforts of hardening one or two at time?
I doubt we will have the required pp/engineering teams to do everything.
So, we obviously don't have costings yet, but do we want to do a general toughening of the all possible fronts, or focus our efforts of hardening one or two at time?
I doubt we will have the required pp/engineering teams to do everything.
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I don't think any of this is particularly meaningful because ultimately it's just based on a subjective judgement, but this math is just silly, particularly where you compare options with one berth to one of the berths of options with two berths but at full cost, for no good reason. If you accept the relative values in the first place the obvious thing to do would be to compare the cruiser berth with an UP development since both share the various advantages and disadvantages of being part of UP, and the only reasonable way to do the pp calculation would be
28pp * 1.3/ (1 + 1.3*1.5) = 12.34pp
This doesn't account for the cruiser berth taking longer and the first such berth being limited to being paired with berths of other sizes (though I don't consider that all that much of a downside).
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We did something like that with the "locations of Cardassian worlds" write-ins, but that was for things we didn't yet know about IC and pretty limited in scope. "Everything the Federation knows about" would be way too much work for Oneiros (we'd be taking about hundreds of strategically irrelevant minor colonies, among other things), quite a lot of it would be about the Federation itself which wouldn't make any sense for an intelligence report, and I'm pretty sure he keeps some things deliberately vague. If it's something specific that's actually important for us to know just ask him while he's active in the thread.
Understand that any berths we buy probably aren't going to be used for regular ship construction for at least 4 or 5 years. Currently SR and Crew is a constraint more than berth space.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
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It depends on what teams become available and what other demands come up, but as of now I see UP start working on the cruiser design techs in 2319, possibly Generic Team 3 (who would have graduated by then) as well. By the time we have phaser arrays (let's say 2327) we could plausibly have wrapped up T2 and one of the T3 projects.
Propably the Cardassian fronts first. The Dawiar and the Sydraxians may or may not actually be hostile to us when the war comes; If they're not, defenses against them may not be quite as useful as they cooud have been. Though even then there's the possibility of hardliner old guard doing unsanctioned raids.
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UP will finish any of the T2 in 2 years, my presence would be sticking them on Engineering since that would take the longest with whatever other team we use for cruiser research. Generic Team 3 will be needed to catch up our cruiser research and it depends on if it graduates as a skill 1 team or skill 2. At skill 1 Generic Team 3 would take 4 years with a boost on Science and I think it was 5 for Combat, though it should level up to 2 at that point. UP will take 4 years to research any of the T3 cruiser techs. So we may be able to get 2 T3 cruiser techs by 2327.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
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T2 Tactical and Operations is all I needed. Definitely need T3 Lightweight Frames tho.
Also, Nyx, Generic 2-- are you going to hold them on first Primitive and then Production arrays or move them elsewhere after they level up? I've been kicking around an idea of going straight up the torpedo tech tree in order to unlock Quantum Torpedoes ASAP, using a named team to unlock T3-T5 Torpedoes and generic teams to run up the Quantum side.
Also, Nyx, Generic 2-- are you going to hold them on first Primitive and then Production arrays or move them elsewhere after they level up? I've been kicking around an idea of going straight up the torpedo tech tree in order to unlock Quantum Torpedoes ASAP, using a named team to unlock T3-T5 Torpedoes and generic teams to run up the Quantum side.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
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- Trumpistan
So, based on discussion, we need starbases in the following locations:
- Leas Akaam - Major Amarkian colony. This is essentially a point the Cardassians have to pass through to Amarkia and the rest of the tailward sectors.
- Tales Har and/or Lagh Chegh - These worlds straddle the lifeline of the Federation. All goods that pass from the Gabriel go through here to our more heavily industrialized sectors in Sol and Tellar. Even with the Sydraxian situation looking better every quarter, this area needs to be protected. Having a pair of starbases to keep an eye on it seems like a good idea.
- Alrizzine Gulf - This was addressed in the tactics update, but dropping an outpost at Grizzi is a must have, but I think dropping an outpost somewhere in the Gulf itself would be a decent idea. There isn't much to protect in there, but we need that gap covered by sensors.
Why not a Starbase at Grizzi? Twice the sensors ability, and one in that half of the CBZ isn't a bad idea anyway. Then we can forward deploy an outpost in the Gulf itself.
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Single techs work well with low skill teams as we can use boosts to compensate, the higher weapon skill team should keep on working on the techs that have multiples like torpedoes.