Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
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Yup, we've had one available for a little bit.
From the last Snakepit.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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Because I am using a stat Glassware, the 2.1 Unreliabity of the Reni!
The Connie-B is not a ship 14 years more advanced than what we can build now, it is a possibility we got last snakepit(I think) that is based off of a vessel that has been updated and refined over a period longer than my mother was alive!
I am trying to argue for waiting on the Reni, while we implement the Conni-B refit to fill the gap until we can build a reliable ship.
I am trying to do something to make this game a little easier for now, and In the process I've been wrecking some of the last hours of my weekend.
and we can do that later, when we're closer to the class' beginning date.
Derek58
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And like I've said repeatedly, you've got zero proof that the Constitustion refit is more reliable, but you're stubbornly insisting it is.
I'm done trying.
We could also refit the Centaur. And build a ton.
EDIT: While I don't support a Constitution refit, I do want to point out that it's a very reasonable assumption that an old, established design will be more reliable than a new, experimental, slightly rushed design.
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Derek58
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We started the Centaur refit last snakepit
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
I get that. And I'm even inclined to agree that a stopgap is necessary until we can mass produce Rennies.
But why a design more than half a century old? Why not just build Constellation refits?
Keep in mind we have more Constellations right now than we have of any other ship type - a refit program makes sense for that reason alone! Might as well build a few more if we really need more light cruisers before the Rennie becomes available. And since the Constellation is a much newer design we should be able to refit it at least one time more after that - unlike the Constitution-B.
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Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
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Well, we have more Mirandas, but their refit doesn't improve Combat or Defense.
Here's the thing, the Connie-B refit is better than the Constellation refit, so we get a better ship.
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
In the short run it's actually competitive. The original Connie must have been a truly excellent design for something so old to still perfom so well.
The problem is that the Connie-B is a dead end. Past 2330 we simply won't be able to keep the design viable via more refits anymore, unlike the Constellation and Centaur.
Furthermore we already have a number of Constellations and Centaurs, so refit programs for those classes will probably be necessary anyway. So IMHO there's no reason to further increase our pp expenditure by adding a Constitution-B refit program on top of that when we can just build build more Constellation-Bs and Centaur-Bs instead.
But also more expensive, so we get fewer of them. And unlike the Constellation we won't be able to keep them technologically up-to-date past 2330.
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as long as we don't do the Reni too quickly, and waste resources that way, I'm happy.
aledeth
The Flesh is Weak
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Constellation A and Centaur A actually. This is the first refit for both of them.
Don't forget we have the MIrandas to refit too.
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
There's a case to be made for that, yes.
The Centaur refit is listed as "Centaur-B". I don't think there's a Centaur-A, so I assume that's meant to be the initial model. Maybe naming conventions changed since the Constitution-A refit?
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The problem with Refit Constellations is with building new ones for the combat role, as they would tend to explode if anything looks at them funny. Refit Centaurs don't fill the modern cruiser role very well either, they simply don't have the oomph.
Basically, for the combat role, the Constitution-B is the best option up until the Renaissance project is complete. The Constellation Refit or Centaur Refit don't fill that role as well, although they're just as good at Science and at running around responding to non-combat emergencies.
Basically, for the combat role, the Constitution-B is the best option up until the Renaissance project is complete. The Constellation Refit or Centaur Refit don't fill that role as well, although they're just as good at Science and at running around responding to non-combat emergencies.
I agree, but I've wasted too much of my happy time(not perverted) trying to fight an uphill battle.
For pete's sake...
Accepting 2.1% failure rate per ship per year for a major fleet element is a terrible idea.
Once we have the Renaissance, the design should last us 50 years or so. (I for one think we should skip the Niagara and go straight for the Nebula class.) I think the ship is worth doing right.
The Centaur looks like it will be a fine escort for a time when the Federation produces more sr and has the doctrines to support squadrons of them working together or with some light cruisers...
Using the Centaur to do the work of light cruisers when they are over-priced for the job and our only doctrine is the lone wolf doctrine is, I feel, foolish.
The main advantages:
*waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper than the Centaur in cost-per-stat point, particularly in terms of sr, which is a major limiting factor.
*Each ship is tougher than both the Centaur and the Constellation (refit)
Main disadvantages:
*A bit more expensive than the Constellation (refit)
*Uses more crew
With our current lone wolf doctrine, the Connie B has an edge, since it is the design best able to perform on its own. However, once doctrines for squadrons are researched, I expect the Constellation would have an advantage, since they are cheap enough to build in large groups.
Personally, I think it is worth building as many as 6 of these given the stat line of the Cardassian ships.
And yes, they are a dead end. But they are a dead end with stats good enough that IMO each hull is likely to give us at least 30 years of good service.
In other words, who cares if it is 60 years old if it is a good response to the problems we have today?
The other option as I see it is to rush doctrinal support for squadrons and spam out cheap Constellations. One Constie may be fragile, but two Consties together would be more dangerous than a single Connie B and be competitive cost-wise.
fasquardon
Accepting 2.1% failure rate per ship per year for a major fleet element is a terrible idea.
Once we have the Renaissance, the design should last us 50 years or so. (I for one think we should skip the Niagara and go straight for the Nebula class.) I think the ship is worth doing right.
The Centaur looks like it will be a fine escort for a time when the Federation produces more sr and has the doctrines to support squadrons of them working together or with some light cruisers...
Using the Centaur to do the work of light cruisers when they are over-priced for the job and our only doctrine is the lone wolf doctrine is, I feel, foolish.
The main advantages:
*waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper than the Centaur in cost-per-stat point, particularly in terms of sr, which is a major limiting factor.
*Each ship is tougher than both the Centaur and the Constellation (refit)
Main disadvantages:
*A bit more expensive than the Constellation (refit)
*Uses more crew
With our current lone wolf doctrine, the Connie B has an edge, since it is the design best able to perform on its own. However, once doctrines for squadrons are researched, I expect the Constellation would have an advantage, since they are cheap enough to build in large groups.
Personally, I think it is worth building as many as 6 of these given the stat line of the Cardassian ships.
And yes, they are a dead end. But they are a dead end with stats good enough that IMO each hull is likely to give us at least 30 years of good service.
In other words, who cares if it is 60 years old if it is a good response to the problems we have today?
The other option as I see it is to rush doctrinal support for squadrons and spam out cheap Constellations. One Constie may be fragile, but two Consties together would be more dangerous than a single Connie B and be competitive cost-wise.
fasquardon
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...so what if the Connie is 60 years old? The F-16 is 40 years old irl and shows no sign of being phased out any time soon. hell it's been refit 3-4 times. I think even redesignated as the F2 unless i'm mistaken General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon - Wikipedia
where were you guys when I was arguing?
UbeOne
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Here is my interpretation of the Rennie. I made it as reliable as can be. Comments?
I agree with this.
I agree with this.
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UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
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Watching. Waiting. Judging. You have been found wanting.
Hey, I was outnumbered, give me a break.Watching. Waiting. Judging. You have been found wanting.
Oh, we are never refitting the Mirandas. They are getting scrapped as soon as we are able to build enough to take them out of service and replace them with better ships. I'd rather put the crew on ships that are more vaulable, and I'd rather spend the yard time building better ships.
The chance of warp core breach due to battle damage seems frighteningly high to me.
I was writing my contribution.
Our Miranda replacement (the Centaur) is just so painfully expensive... Either we need to design a new Escort more capable than the Miranda and cheaper than the Centaur or we need to increase our sr production so that the cost of the Centaurs is more bearable.
(If we do decide to design a new escort, I quite like @UbeOne's Obreth II design - that had the stat block to perform as a multirole science/escort ship.)
fasquardon
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UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
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The default is 50%. There's little that I can do about it.
Not until we do more research in terms of warp core safety.