trooperist
Cinnamon Roll AI
Looks good, but I think you're missing the Ashidi. They should be right near the Seyek.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
Mars explicitly has a seat though, so it's not 'the rest of the system' voting for Earth.
I suspect it'd be the other way around, actually. Earth's councilor represents actually just earth, while Mars' represents everyone else in the system, including Luna and some of the orbital colonies.
Alastor Mobius Toth
***** ***
- Location
- Neon Ghetto
Ooops, I missed that about Mars Councillor.
That said, it makes no sense for Mars to be also responsible for Luna; the Moon is close enough that people can shuttle in to and fro in matter of hours.
That said, it makes no sense for Mars to be also responsible for Luna; the Moon is close enough that people can shuttle in to and fro in matter of hours.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
So... Hearsay.
Wait, Cardassians + Klingons?
Ah. The Lecarre are in an okay position to act as a middleman.
Honestly, I seriously doubt the Cardassians' ability to conduct sustained intelligence operations of the type necessary to get reports at our level of detail at that range.
Honestly it could go either way. The proximity argument is a fairly decent one, but the idea that Earth's 7+ billion people need more people voting for their councilor doesn't seem to fit. I would not be surprised if smaller colonies like Luna are traded around between major and minor Member Worlds with rough geographic confines in an attempt at proportionality.
Also, look at it this way: you're the Mayor of the Moon when they're drafting up the initial accords. Your population is 14,000 people. Would you have more political influence if you were lumped in with the 500,000 voters for Mars + the outer planets or if you were lumped in with the 7,000,000,000+ voters on Earth?
Ultimately with one planet, one councilor, you run into some very interesting representation problems. This is probably by design, but there's no reason that they don't make an attempt at proportionality by lumping smaller colonies with smaller-population Member Worlds.
I'm not talking about 'let's build a whole new ship from scratch' like in Homeworld, but rather a mobile dock with all the repair tools a stationary one has, just shrunk down using replicator technology. Think more like the repair yard from that one episode of Enterprise, the one that abducted one of the crew for it's computer core? Now, that's not exactly what I want, but the general idea of a collapsible repair facility is in line with what I like.
Alastor Mobius Toth
***** ***
- Location
- Neon Ghetto
If Mars is its own actual voting bloc and you have only like, 14 thousand votes, the question doesn't really matter, because Mars can simply outmass you either way. It's the question of "do I prefer to be Martian protectorate, or Earth's?". However, that's a bit outside of the point I was trying to make.
With Star Trek level of communication and transportation technology, certain barriers to large inclusive government cease to matter. If you can simply beam down to Earth from Luna; or at worst taking a dozen-minute long shuttle-ride and enjoy lagless comms, it is increasingly unlikely that the Moon would be its own polity, since it can effectively exist within the unified framework of a unified world. "Luna City, Moon" effectively becomes its own place as much as "La Barre, France". In same way, I'd imagine immediate habitats within Martian sphere would just be folded into Martian administration.
I admit though, this is a big pet peeve of mine in science fiction - the colonies always have to be fractious and demand their own self-governance, which makes sense if technology makes travel and communication time-consuming or otherwise expensive. But the easier it is to move people, items and information, the less core-periphery dynamics are liable to create the same social forces that would make people consider breaking off with a distant polity, barring deliberate disruption.
I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
Earth and Mars and Luna fall under the entire United Earth structure. It's not about the Moon being part of a Martian 'polity' or a 'protectorate.' Technically speaking, again, they're all United Earth and then Federation protectorates.
It is strictly about who you're voting for as a Federal Representative. Councilors are not the sole voice representing their planets and probably don't get involved in their day to day affairs, as befits such a decentralized Federation. In that case, if you're the Mayor of the Moon [or the Lady of Luna] the political force you've used to get elected in a group of 14,000 people will go much further in an overall population of 500,000 then it will in 7,000,000,000+, hence you're going to want to be put in Mars' electoral district.
That being said, if Luna and Earth are so closely entwined that a Lunar citizen is basically an Earth citizen due to how often you move back-and-forth and/or there's a low population there, I can see that being an argument to keep Luna's population voting for an Earth representative.
E: the same argument you make for short shuttle rides and instant communication work just as well to say Lunar citizens could have tons cross-communication and ties with Mars. Earth is closer, of course, but it's entirely possible people living in Dome-Cities on an airless rock identify more with people living in dome-cities on a slightly less airless rock.
Last edited:
See the thing is, what's the point? Repairs that can't be done underway are a matter of months. I don't see where you're getting a lot of benefit from having a "mobile" dock that sits out in deep space for months to do a repair, versus towing* the ship back to an actual shipyard that's sitting on a supply chain and next to a properly supported population center.
Walk me through the scenario where it's better to have a mobile dock.
*Or maybe the ship sails itself back to the standard shipyard, if it's not too badly damaged.
Alastor Mobius Toth
***** ***
- Location
- Neon Ghetto
I was basically trying to say that either way Moon wouldn't have strong bargaining position. Yes, if Mars had, say, 500.000 votes that sounds like less overwhelming edge than being part of Earth's election circuit with 7 billion votes...but either way your voice doesn't really mean much, especially if Mars draws extra votes from elsewhere, and logically Luna would have more common interests with the planet they are physically orbiting. But I am probably a little too cynical for Star Trek's political system. It could very well be that Luna and Mars elect same councilor to ensure that there's a significant enough majority behind the office to make it a relevant seat (if you have say, 3 seats, but one of them is elected only by a small community of 14.000, people will make shifty eyes at it).
This is my thinking, yes. It's also possible Earth kept Luna in the initial negotiations, or it's been part of the Earth electorate but has been re-designated to the Mars one since. There's no doubt some level of balancing with the smaller colonies to try and beef up the population numbers of the smaller Member Worlds. On the other hand, you probably don't want to do that too much because then the colonies have an outsized voice in Council. But maybe that's less a concern in the year 2315 where the Colonial/Core divide is probably not the same as the Rural/Urban divide.
Well, unless it becomes political fact...
Alastor Mobius Toth
***** ***
- Location
- Neon Ghetto
I admit, I didn't know that Moose population was that high in Canada.
Don't stun me, pls
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
I admit, I didn't know that Moose population was that high in Canada.
Don't stun me, pls
Setting to kill, aye.
- Location
- Australia
We need one of these breakdowns of fronts/objectives for a projected cardassian war immediately.
If we can anchor our lanes with starbases and outposts it will give us the time we need to ramp up to full mobilisation, and that could take some time because of the space hippi^C^C^C Vulcans.
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
I don't think the Vulcan's will be very obstructionist once the war begins.
- Location
- Australia
Offer both sides civilian freighter hulls in exchange for cloaking technology?
Last edited:
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
My gut feeling says that that's not a good idea.
*stesk_frown.gif*
- Pronouns
- He/Him
- Location
- Patriarchova
I think the Romulans have learned their lesson about selling cloaking tech for hulls.
- Location
- Patriarchova
If I wasn't on my phone I'd repost those laughing Klingon used car salesmen.
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
I suppose it depends on how many D7s you get out of it.
It's also possible the Romulans were wanting to shift from a wolfpack-based paradigm like the BoP we saw in TOS to larger hulls for power projection/to counterforce Starfleet, but had no real experience building them, and the Romulans regarded the purchase of physical hulls as more in the nature of a tech transfer than buying machinery for use. The fact they got some stuff to counter Connies immediately was just a bonus.
Last edited:
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
They may straight not have the technology for a warp-capable starship much bigger than the BoP and that's why they bought the D7s, to learn how it's done. Hence their looking at it as a technology transfer; they're buying the starships to learn large-scale building techniques and reactor design and larger-scale warp fields. Because they see it as buying technology and ships rather than straight buying ships, they are willing to trade in kind with other technology.