- Location
- Infraspace
Spock: That argument is statistically suspect, and therefore highly illogical.
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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
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- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
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aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
- Location
- Laniakea Supercluster
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I honestly don't know. It's been argued that a defensive game will provoke the Cardies, make them bold enough to strike at us and cost us in casualties and resources. But playing an aggressive game doesn't seem all that much better, since any aggressive move, no matter how well-planned, risks a similar cost. And then we get into whether Ainsworth fits the Corps, and whether the Corps will help her to mature as an officer, and I don't know about that either. I'm beginning to lean towards leaving her in Gabriel, but it still feels quite up in the air.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
I think you're exaggerating the difference between Explorer Corp and regular Starfleet. The Explorer Corp are selective because of the difficulty involved, not because their crew are more committed to Federation ideals. The very first mission Kumari ran with Ainsworth as her XO she went to go provide care for plague victims. Ainsworth is good at combat, but she was fully qualified to be an EC captain in other ways as well. I think she'd do a fine job there, and I think we could use a High or Medium diplo character in the GBZ. If the Caitians deploy there, that will be three member fleets to coordinate with, possibly four if the Indorians get involved as we've discussed. Low Diplomacy is a major hindrance under those circumstances, and our actions driving back the Sydraxians should give us room to expand and build up more infrastructure without needing to launch another massive assault at a time we can ill afford to lose ships.
- Location
- USA
My own feeling is if this was after the Licori war Nash would be ready but I would like her to go through a period serving as command of a task force first. Also for Ainsworth this is a promotion. Heads of the divisions are considered higher than holding the same rank but being a sector commander like she is. Not to mention the blanket reroll of a failed explorer event can be huge. We got in trouble with the Sydraxians over a failed roll, imagine how different things may have been if that had been rolled a success.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Hmm, I wanted to put Samyr on the Courageous because of S10 and "chance to roll to escape ambushes/Hostile Threat event types", because the Licori war already has so much Federation weight in combat potential that any additional combat bonuses (like Sadek's +1 C and D and evasion) is likely to be minuscule in usefulness (and less relevant after the war) as opposed to countering Licori super-science.
That said, Sulu's P10 and "re-roll event hull checks" is also really attractive here, since not only do we have to "out-science" the Licori, we have to find every opportunity to diplomance the amenable Licori houses that are critical to our exit strategies. So both science and presence rolls are likely to be critical.
Okay, I'll go for it.
[X][FYM1] Captain Demora Sulu
[X][FYM2] Captain Samyr Kanil
[X][EC] Rear Admiral Rachel Ainsworth
The situation has unfortunately changed since we assigned Ainsworth to the GBZ. We gave her superiority in ships to aggressively push out Sydraxians and contest with the Cardassians.
Now the Sydraxians are no longer a large concern in the GBZ, so mission accomplished (ahem) there. And with the Licori distraction, we can't send her the reinforcements she needs to aggressively counter the Cardassians, not when they now have a starbase up and running there by now. Furthermore, we're allowing more and more member fleet forces there and diplomacy is thus going to be more and more important.
If Harriman were still available, I'd love to transfer him in here, as some have mused about before, but now he's commander of the whole spinward theater. Lathriss could be nice - I'm not convinced we would suddenly lose a tech team if he dies in a large scale battle like Nix fears (at some point, those tech teams will have to live on beyond the originating founder after all). Gorac Crogan, yeah he could be good, but I'd also like an able commander in case we decide to contest the Gretarians alongside the Yrillians and the Sydraxians get it into their head that they have to meet our challenge.
edit:
Sure, but in the foreseeable future, I don't see us having large sector garrisons, and we definitely won't have a sufficient auxiliaries, for this Anyth sh'Nathriq's bonus to likely matter much.
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I mean, you could say the same thing for Federation Science, though. We already have the fleet so packed with Science that any more science bonus is also likely to be minuscule in usefulness.
I'm most down for Sadek's Evasion, because it might help save the Courageous from some nasty shot. At least as much chance as rerolling Hill checks.
As for the 5YM, the Courageous is already so good (Excelsior-A and Veteran crew) that it hardly needs Captain stat bonuses to do the job. The Higher the ship's stats, the less an extra +1 is likely to help. That's why I'd like to give Sulu the new ship.
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lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
There's a key difference though.
Combat potential is relatively summable - 2x C3 H3 L3 is comparable to 1x C6 H6 L6. In fact, before the recent combat engine changes, the former tended to be beat out the latter (and they might still do).
Stat-based rolls aren't like this. They depend on the DC of the rolls, and I expect to see at least couple hard DCs. I don't know how high DCs are now, but given the examples that Onerios has shown in the past, a DC16 would hardly be surprising to me (back in 2307, we were told that a medium DC for an FYM was DC12, and I'd expect DCs to slowly rise or at least introduce additional higher DC strata). At such high DCs, each point of stat matters A LOT.
For example, 2d6+9 (S9) against DC16 would only have 58% of success. A 2d6+10 (S10) against DC15 would have 72% of success. Our lesser ships, even Oberths, would be hopeless: 2d6+5 (S5) against DC16 has only 17% success rate. Two Oberths that each roll independently against the same event (i.e. don't add their roles together) would only have 31% success rate. We also don't know how often rolls can be added together against DCs.
The only reason we're okay with having a bunch of Miranda-As and Centaur-As that are relatively paltry at event success, is because we're counting on the majority of events to have lower DC, and that most event failures won't result in significantly negative consequences (like loss of the ship). The latter of which is hardly guaranteed with the Licori.
So essentially, with the risk that Licori-related DCs can be very high and have equally high failure consequences (or opportunity costs), the marginal improvement from additional S or P (likely to be useful with Licori) for our better ships is likely greater than the marginal improvement from an additional C and D.
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Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
[X][FYM1] Captain Sadek
[X][FYM2] Captain Demora Sulu
[X][EC] Rear Admiral Rachel Ainsworth
[X][FYM2] Captain Demora Sulu
[X][EC] Rear Admiral Rachel Ainsworth
Alright, fine, edited my vote to put Samyr Kanil on the Courageous. Still putting her there and Sulu on the Voshov, though.
I think if the Cardassians are even remotely aware of what is going in the Federation they will push us there aggressively, no matter what we do (and indeed even they aren't it is the smart/correct choice for them in my opinion). And an aggressive stance is in my opinion more risky than a defensive one would be. As I said I fully expect the Cardassians to heavily expand their operations in the GBZ. It is the strategically and political smart choice in my eyes and one that plays well into the Cardassians and their affiliates mentality as well as their desire and need for a win and I don't think we can afford the risk of big losses there, not with all the other things happening at the same.
To say it in the simplest terms I don't think we have the reserves to support an aggressive course that Ainsworth seems to favour and no need to play the high risk, high reward game of doing so. If you are low on resources playing the defensive game and maximising your advantages is the smart choice. Letting the Cardassians claim more of the GBZ is not the end of the world and I think a big loss (or even expensive victory there) would be something we can afford, not with the Licori operation going on as well as the increased likelihood of a Rom/Klingon war.
Granted, unlike many here I think that the Licori conflict will bind a significant part of our forces for more than just the short amount of time we are currently hoping for which is why I think loss avoidance has the priority. Though even if we win there is the political dimension to consider - waging two aggressive military campaigns back to back could in my eyes give the more critical members of the Federation a lot ammunition, especially once the losses start mounting. (Though I view the GBZ in general as pure political dynamite considering it is basically space colonialism without the natives...)
Granted, if I was the guy in charge of the Cardassian military I would throw every ship I could find into the GBZ and try to force a battle/basetrike as quickly as I could anyhow which makes losses a near certainty but even then I think a defensive stance is the better counter.
I don't think its exaggerating to say "she may not be a good fit." Exaggeration would be "She'll be a disastrous fit that will drive the whole Corps to ruin, ruin I say!!!! THEY'LL BE SERVING AS FASCISTIC JACKBOOTED THUGS BY TUESDAY"
She may have been on the panel but she also never got steeped in the culture, and as per WOG as to why we don't recruit captains from the Member worlds as well, there is a unique culture to both Starfleet and then also the Explorer Corps on top of that. She was in Starfleet Tactical before she went to the GBZ, IIRC, and now has prosecuted an aggressive campaign there so she's been pretty focused on the 'smashing' side of the skill tree. A commander who is used to taking ships and smashing things may find it something of an adjustment, if she ever really settles into the role.
That being said she's decent with internal politics as per her stats so she'll probably play nice and be useful in case any more disasters occur. Which they probably will.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
Besides, she will eventually get the culture... eventually. I highly doubt she is stubborn to the point of ignoring the advice of her many talented subordinates.
I for one would actually quite happy to combat this elitism in regards to the EC and other positions in Starfleet since I think it is at least contrary to what it is supposed to stand for, especially since I would rather not limit possible promotion parts even further...
I don't think it's elitism as much as my personal reading of her temperament.
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
- Location
- Laniakea Supercluster
- Pronouns
- She/Her
TBH part of the reason I want her there is to give her the opportunity to become more in tune with SF's peaceful operations and culture. Hell, with some more time and experience she might gain some political skill, might even be a good VADM candidate next time a slot opens.
Old Seruk would often suggest candidates for offices to us who didn't necessarily fit the best into them, but who he felt would grow as officers by their experiences there. I feel like he had the right idea.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I like the idea, but if we want a change of pace we probably shouldn't look for it from Admiral Lathriss. Lathriss was brought up in the old Amerki school of tactics and had much of a career there before they joined the Federation. I doubt he's going to operate in anything other than the generally aggressive mode
Furthermore, he doesn't have a lot of experience working with foreign powers aside from, well, us. And his experience in that arena isn't encouraging. Reading between the lines, it's pretty clear that he comes with political negatives in part because he has failed to ingratiate himself with the leaders of the nation he's been working for for the past ten years. It's not just because he's an Amarki (or Leaniss wouldn't have +5pp/year as a bonus). I think it's in part him just plain not being a popular officer outside his own department.
I'd like to send a message that we really are looking beyond the First Four for people fit to hold leadership positions, but I'm a bit worried about Lathriss personally in that department.
If we choose to think it matters, the statlines are:
Pathe Lathriss
Rule-Abiding: Medium
Aggression: High
Nerve: Medium
Diplomacy: Low
Politics: Medium
Rachel Ainsworth
Rule-Abiding: Medium
Aggression: High
Nerve: High
Diplomacy: Medium
Politics: Low
Now, I'm not worried about Lathriss losing his nerve in the face of a crisis, given the character of the man. But I do think that if Ainsworth's "Medium Diplomacy Low Politics" is considered a weakness that makes us want to replace her... "Low Diplomacy Medium Politics" is probably not the thing we want to replace her with.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
I don't know where you got those statlines from, but the front page says they are wrong. Ainsworth is the Low Diplo Medium Politics, while Lathriss is Medium Diplo Low Politics. So he would be better suited to coordinating the various fleets in the GBZ.
Plus, most of our issues in the GBZ so far have been with the Amarki commander, who is also low diplomacy. Appointing the seniormost Amarki officer in Starfleet to GBZ Commander could help with that.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
...The fuck?
Ainsworth was on the EC panel at game start, and is a firebrand willing to send ships and personnel into harm's way. Given that risk is the Explorer Corp's business, how is she not a good fit?
First, the obvious exaggeration is obvious exaggeration.
More to your point: she's since been moulded to go smash things. If she'd gone through the EC back as a captain I would have less concern (and I don't have a huge amount of concern in any case). She has since done an almost absurd amount of smashing after going through Tactical. And that's what we wanted out of our GBZ commander! I'm just saying she might find the transition to peace a little bumpy compared to the one I voted for.