This is information that has already come out in the main. Strictly speaking, they're not affiliates. They are, however, firmly under the Sydraxian thumb.

Would this mean that diplomancing them would go against the Celos treaty or are they fair game?

Speaking of would it be possible or you to include the Cardassian "vassal" status to the respective races on the front page? I don't have the best memory when it comes to names so it would be nice to not have to check the various updates for what race is what every time they come up.
 
Well maybe. The big uncertainty is how many years the Ambassador research takes before we can start the prototype. I'm becoming more and more doubtful that it will only be a two research phase effort. If it takes 3 research turns then we don't have to pay the massive cost of the Ambassador prototype in 2315, and we can afford to spend more in 2314. Luckily we're about to find out the time the research will take very soon, so we'll finally be able to lock down the year we have to shell out for the prototype.

Oh good point.

Largest question is whether the Ambassador is going to take more than 2 years of research (or more than 1.25 years of research due to how research apparently completes in a single quarter). That is, whether it's going to take longer than the Renaissance design project, which took 2 (1.25) years.

I'm starting to suspect it may take 3 (2.25) years of research, since even without a concrete design, all the speculative designs have incorporated a LOT of T2 tech that has never been used before.

Recent relevant post from Oneiros on this:
I'm still deciding on the best way to address project design time, and there's a few different options. For the moment, the important thing is that parts that have already been used in an existing design would take half as long to design. I'm probably going to split the project up into four slides , one for each sub-frame. If you are reusing a previous sub-frame+parts combo entirely, you skip that slide entirely.

Compared to the Renaissance, the Renaissance is arguably less of a generational advancement over its predecessor, because:
a) Constellation and Excelsior were both designed in the 2270s, considering their introduction year and prototyping time
b) Renaissance straddles T1 and T2, while Ambassador is much further into T2
c) Renaissance project could reuse some of the research done for the Centaur-A refit (T1-ish); although on the other hand, the Ambassador project could potentially use the research that's being done in parallel for the Excelsior-A refit (T1/2-ish)

Furthermore, there's good reason to believe that explorer design projects will take longer than cruiser design projects, all else being equal, since that's how ship design tech trees work.
 
Yes. But the Treaty of Celos gives us a chance to put our superior industry to work building up our cruiser fleet, and to (hopefully) make up for their new tributaries by outcompeting them in the Gabriel Expanse.

The Cardassians were foolish enough to delay the war when they were unlikely to ever have a better chance at victory. Lets not waste their mistake.

I am not to sure about that - I doubt that the Cardassians will remain idle in regards to expansion and they, unlike us, have actually far more room to expand into. The Federation is boxed in on several sides by the Cardassians, their affiliates, the Romulans and the Klingons while the Cardassians, at least from we know so far, can expand unopposed in pretty much any direction but east.
 
I'm curious if the FDS/FBS currently have any plans to bombard Dawiar space with leaked news on how much we wanted to work something out with the Dawiar so we could colonize space around Risa together but their Cardassian masters won't let them talk to us, but we totally would talk with them if they declared independence and of course would love to see people join our federation, just wanted to mention that, no particular reason why do you ask, and even if people don't want to join we'd of course still protect them from outside agression by other superpowers.
After all, we're not talking with the Dawiar so the Cardies can't be upset, we're talking to ourselves and the Dawiar merely overhear it, Federation infosecurity is notoriously leaky after all.
 
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Daljerra Cruiser Report
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Pick a faction to gain an estimate of fleet strength in the GBZ - Cardassians
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to

[X][APIATA] Intazzi Team - Grand Hive R&D
[X][INDORIA] All Pyllix Geological Institute
 
I do wonder if, next year, we could gather up SF+member fleets in the GBZ and throw them at Deva or 67 Gabriel.
 
I do wonder if, next year, we could gather up SF+member fleets in the GBZ and throw them at Deva or 67 Gabriel.
Depends how you answer when Ainsworth comes to say "Rivers broke my Excelsior, gib replacement. Also, freighters."

Speaking of would it be possible or you to include the Cardassian "vassal" status to the respective races on the front page? I don't have the best memory when it comes to names so it would be nice to not have to check the various updates for what race is what every time they come up.
Done
 
You guys had six Rennies slotted for next year? o_o

You didn't think that talk about the Rennie wave was...metaphorical, did you?

After all, we're not talking with the Dawiar so the Cardies can't be upset, we're talking to ourselves and the Dawiar merely overhear it, Federation infosecurity is notoriously leaky after all.

"Mister Garak, if you'd come by my office, I need a new suit." *schedules an intel briefing at the same time*
 
I do wonder if, next year, we could gather up SF+member fleets in the GBZ and throw them at Deva or 67 Gabriel.
I think Deva is the most pressing concern at the moment. We've got a little more buffer room with the Cardassians. Plus, bullying the Sydraxians means we're less likely to escalate to all-out war, versus taking a Starfleet/Amarki/Apiata fleet and smashing 67 Gabriel.

Though the expression on the Cardassian's faces if we did that would be priceless.

"I THOUGHT LIKE 30% OF THEIR GOVERNMENT WAS EXPLICITLY PACIFIST, WHAT THE FUCK???"
 
[x][APIATA] Intazzi Team - Grand Hive R&D
[x][INDORIA] All Pyllix Geological Institute

[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[X][ROM] Romulan Daljerra Cruiser Report
[X][REPORT] Ship Analysis Report: Kalindrax
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to
 
Next year we have 5 Miranda-As, 2 Centaur-As, a Connie-B and the USS Renaissance entering service or coming back from refit as far as the regular fleet goes. I think the Rennaissance should definitely be assigned to a interior sector to limit intel other powers can get on it before the first production wave enters service. It doesn't get more interior than the Vulcan sector, but we'll probably want it to tag out the Hood in the Sol sector instead. The Centaur-As should really be assigned somewhere where they can help with events, I'd say Vulcan and Andor, freeing up two Mirandas from there to go into refit.

That means 5 Miranda-As and 2 Connie-Bs that can be thrown into the meat grinder. Maybe assign a Miranda-A each to KBZ and RBZ because those are really short on ships all the time and I don't want to keep missing events in the KBZ. 3 Miranda-As and 2 Connie-Bs for the Gabriel Expanse. @Briefvoice what do you think?
 
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I am not to sure about that - I doubt that the Cardassians will remain idle in regards to expansion and they, unlike us, have actually far more room to expand into. The Federation is boxed in on several sides by the Cardassians, their affiliates, the Romulans and the Klingons while the Cardassians, at least from we know so far, can expand unopposed in pretty much any direction but east.

I very much doubt this. If the Cardassians could freely expand in any other direction, they wouldn't be investing all these resources in this one.

I think Deva is the most pressing concern at the moment. We've got a little more buffer room with the Cardassians. Plus, bullying the Sydraxians means we're less likely to escalate to all-out war, versus taking a Starfleet/Amarki/Apiata fleet and smashing 67 Gabriel.

Though the expression on the Cardassian's faces if we did that would be priceless.

"I THOUGHT LIKE 30% OF THEIR GOVERNMENT WAS EXPLICITLY PACIFIST, WHAT THE FUCK???"

Our flagship for that armada needs to be the USS 70% Approval.
 
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That means 5 Miranda-As and 2 Connie-Bs that can be thrown into the meat grinder. Maybe assign a Miranda-A each to KBZ and RBZ because those are really short on ships all the time and I don't want to keep missing events in the KBZ. 3 Miranda-As and 2 Connie-Bs for the Gabriel Expanse. @Briefvoice what do you think?
We are a little thin on hulls in the CBZ and SBZ (especially with the Salnas in repairs, but that's short-term), which might go hot if we keep pushing, so I'd consider throwing two of the Mirandas in those zones as well. 1 Miranda and 2 Connie-B's is nothing to sneeze at, but of course the 22 addtional Combat we'd get if we went in with 3-M/A and 2-C/B is very, very tempting.
 
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You guys had six Rennies slotted for next year? o_o

It's almost like we had an explicit warning from the Federation Council that we're going to be at war within the next few years or something.

Depends how you answer when Ainsworth comes to say "Rivers broke my Excelsior, gib replacement. Also, freighters."

This is doable.

We could pull the Yukikaze off ASTF and put it on patrol of Ferasa sector, pull the Bull out of Tellar Sector and put it on patrol of Ferasa sector, freeing up the Avandar to go from Ferasa to Gabriel.

With the Syndicate's space assets rendered ineffective, I think the ASTF ought to be able to manage with only two cruisers.

Thoughts, everyone? One more Excelsior for Ainsworth?
 
I very much doubt this. If the Cardassians could freely expand in any other direction, they wouldn't be investing all these resources in this one.

I suspect their reasoning for that is very similar to our own - by focusing our efforts in this area we not only strengthen our own powerbase but also weaken the Cardassian one/prevent them from growing more powerful. And once you do that you can't really stop doing it without abandoning a significant part of that (ever increasing) investment.
 
This is doable.

We could pull the Yukikaze off ASTF and put it on patrol of Ferasa sector, pull the Bull out of Tellar Sector and put it on patrol of Ferasa sector, freeing up the Avandar to go from Ferasa to Gabriel.

With the Syndicate's space assets rendered ineffective, I think the ASTF ought to be able to manage with only two cruisers.

Thoughts, everyone? One more Excelsior for Ainsworth?
I'd want to wait until we reach the 400 threshold before drawing down on the ASTF, especially since the Amarki force is already leaving. If the Syndicate isn't quite as dead in the water as we think it is doing so might end up being painful.
 
This is doable.

We could pull the Yukikaze off ASTF and put it on patrol of Ferasa sector, pull the Bull out of Tellar Sector and put it on patrol of Ferasa sector, freeing up the Avandar to go from Ferasa to Gabriel.

With the Syndicate's space assets rendered ineffective, I think the ASTF ought to be able to manage with only two cruisers.

Thoughts, everyone? One more Excelsior for Ainsworth?

I am against depleting the ASTF even further considering the warning we got last turn considering the Syndicate slowly recovering from the events on Celos. While their firepower might not be needed those ships have shown numerous times just how useful orbital supremacy can be. Plus it gives us some wiggle room in case of a successful attack on one of our ships, sabotage etc.
 
It's possible that if we bully the Sydraxians enough, they'll say "to hell with Celos" and just start a war on their own for real. They're almost on war footing already. I think the SBZ should be covered better than it currently is. High presence there would also help our ongoing diplomatic efforts.
 
We have forced the Cardies&co to reevaluate us. We want them off balance, so trying to staff the GBZ as heavily as possible so we can stay on a rapid offensive seems wise to me.
 
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[X][ROM] Romulan Daljerra Cruiser Report
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Pick a faction to gain an estimate of fleet strength in the GBZ - Cardassians
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to

[X][APIATA] Intazzi Team - Grand Hive R&D
[X][INDORIA] All Pyllix Geological Institute
 
That means 5 Miranda-As and 2 Connie-Bs that can be thrown into the meat grinder. Maybe assign a Miranda-A each to KBZ and RBZ because those are really short on ships all the time and I don't want to keep missing events in the KBZ. 3 Miranda-As and 2 Connie-Bs for the Gabriel Expanse. @Briefvoice what do you think?

I agree with your logic more or less. Want to see what the next two quarters look like before committing to anything, of course.

I suspect their reasoning for that is very similar to our own - by focusing our efforts in this area we not only strengthen our own powerbase but also weaken the Cardassian one/prevent them from growing more powerful. And once you do that you can't really stop doing it without abandoning a significant part of that (ever increasing) investment.

And of course, you can't underestimate that the Gabriel Expanse seems to be uniquely rich in resources while lacking any native species that would contest claims.

I'd want to wait until we reach the 400 threshold before drawing down on the ASTF, especially since the Amarki force is already leaving. If the Syndicate isn't quite as dead in the water as we think it is doing so might end up being painful.

I get what you're saying, but on the other hand Ainsworth has momentum right now. With another Excelsior, she might be able to follow up and conclusively drive the Sydraxians out of the Gabriel Expanse. And the Yukikaze has never really seemed to be doing very much in the ASTF. We've been told that it's mostly Enlisted security details plus establishing orbital supremacy that do the work.

If the Orion Syndicate still had a space force in reserve I'd be more concerned, but we've been explicitly told their space assets have been rendered ineffective, so I feel safer assuming they can't do much beyond suicide shuttle attacks.
 
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