darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If there's one thing a diplomatic corps should have, it's a REALLY good kitchen and wine cellar.
Linked contents
- Location
- France
- Pronouns
- She/They
This is why I'm voting thrusters. Squeezing more out of one of our most expensive components seems valuable.
[X] Impulse Shunt (+20% Impulse Engine Output)
[X] Impulse Shunt (+20% Impulse Engine Output)
Yeah, I recall the fights we've had over trying to balance maneuverability vs cost, so being able to squeeze more out of the engines we can afford seems like a good idea (and it also has the advantage that it should scale pretty well across the entire Warp 8 fleet, ie., the successor to the Sharks will benefit just as much if not more than the successor to the Keas or Sagarmathas).
Yeah, I recall the fights we've had over trying to balance maneuverability vs cost, so being able to squeeze more out of the engines we can afford seems like a good idea (and it also has the advantage that it should scale pretty well across the entire Warp 8 fleet, ie., the successor to the Sharks will benefit just as much if not more than the successor to the Keas or Sagarmathas).
[X] Expanded Main Energiser (+10% Next-Gen Shield Output)
I think the Impulse Shunt option is better in all respects on the face of it, but since this core is for next-gen ship, I think it'll synergize with new next-gen weapons or further shield upgrades etc. We may not get those options if we go with enhanced impulse reactors.
I'm happy to be proven wrong, of course.
I also think we need to avoid the temptation to make our last current-gen ship a warship, but rather a medium-sized utility ship with an emphasis on weapons.
My reasoning is, our next-gen designs that can top warp 8 and have either enhanced shields or engines are going to be in service in time for the Klingon war and will be our best combatants, being faster and stronger than what we have available now. There's little point in investing in warships that'll be obsolete, either because they're too weak or slow for mainline war. On the other hand, we should definitely give it the best weapons possible without distorting its mission profile, as we know we'll need as many mobile weapons as possible. Any experimental combat technology options, either shields, weapons, armour or stealth, should be snapped up so we can get them standard on our next-gen war fleet.
We can design something capable now that'll free up our new, shiny warcraft from support roles so they can focus on our real enemies.
Ships that are too small may be too weak or narrow in focus to be good utility ships. Too big and we won't be able to build enough to get a reserve of ships to look after internal affairs while we engage in defensive or offensive actions.
I also think we need to think carefully about our warships, and avoid building uber-dreadnoughts; they're very expensive and ungainly, and mean our forces are extremely concentrated. Losing 1 becomes very serious. Small and medium warships can be built faster, and can still carry heavy weapons, especially if they're built in numbers.
Edit: I'm also worried about how powerful Klingon weapons are, seems to me until we get much better shields, numbers and faster, small to medium warships cooperating as a group might be best.
I think the Impulse Shunt option is better in all respects on the face of it, but since this core is for next-gen ship, I think it'll synergize with new next-gen weapons or further shield upgrades etc. We may not get those options if we go with enhanced impulse reactors.
I'm happy to be proven wrong, of course.
I also think we need to avoid the temptation to make our last current-gen ship a warship, but rather a medium-sized utility ship with an emphasis on weapons.
My reasoning is, our next-gen designs that can top warp 8 and have either enhanced shields or engines are going to be in service in time for the Klingon war and will be our best combatants, being faster and stronger than what we have available now. There's little point in investing in warships that'll be obsolete, either because they're too weak or slow for mainline war. On the other hand, we should definitely give it the best weapons possible without distorting its mission profile, as we know we'll need as many mobile weapons as possible. Any experimental combat technology options, either shields, weapons, armour or stealth, should be snapped up so we can get them standard on our next-gen war fleet.
We can design something capable now that'll free up our new, shiny warcraft from support roles so they can focus on our real enemies.
Ships that are too small may be too weak or narrow in focus to be good utility ships. Too big and we won't be able to build enough to get a reserve of ships to look after internal affairs while we engage in defensive or offensive actions.
I also think we need to think carefully about our warships, and avoid building uber-dreadnoughts; they're very expensive and ungainly, and mean our forces are extremely concentrated. Losing 1 becomes very serious. Small and medium warships can be built faster, and can still carry heavy weapons, especially if they're built in numbers.
Edit: I'm also worried about how powerful Klingon weapons are, seems to me until we get much better shields, numbers and faster, small to medium warships cooperating as a group might be best.
Last edited:
- Location
- Australia
[X] Expanded Main Energiser (+10% Next-Gen Shield Output)
I'm convinced.
On a purely thrust vs shield comparison, I think thrust wins without any competition for a variety of reasons. Maneuverability is King.
I kinda forgot that it was all ship components having access to more power, a side effect of being more powerful shields. That's a different calculation entirely. I want stronger labs, supercomputers that are overclockable, more power to teleporters, to weapons to structural integrity fields etc etc.
I don't know if that's going to have in game effects, but more robust power network is only a good thing
If it's a dead end though, I'm gonna have to eat my words.
But I'd be so down for next-gen phasers and torpedoes, maybe shields etc all arriving early. Sensor or computer upgrades would be icing on my Ktarian chocolate puff. If my perception and memory are accurate, the Klingons have a huge advantage in numbers and firepower, moderate advantage in speed and slight advantage in shields. I really wanna close that gap, but I can't help but wonder if it's a dead-end technique.
Does anyone know what the Federation went with canonically? That could inform our choice beyond a doubt. Sayle is somewhat diverging from canon, but overall is following it quite tightly. They have their own interpretation, but it's generally well-researched and well-reasoned.
Last edited:
- Location
- United States
[X] Impulse Shunt (+20% Impulse Engine Output)
- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
[X] Impulse Shunt (+20% Impulse Engine Output)
Horologer
Incertae sedis
- Location
- a risen sea
but if we had an impulse shunt we could turn it around even fasterEnergiser can still turn it around!
Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
- Location
- Getter Valhalla
Ok that's a good one!but if we had an impulse shunt we could turn it around even faster
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
2215: An Evening in Paris
August 9th, 2192
Mercer III
UFS Warspite (NZ-03)
The Warspite hung alone in the vastness of space, tracing a slow halo orbit around the center of Mercer III's second lagrange point. From the ageing dreadnought's perspective the planet lacked any detail, a cutout black circle haloed by the corona of the system's dim yellow sun. On any other day the only reason a Starfleet ship would be sitting so precisely in that spot would be to make observations of one sort of another. Today the reason was that it put the Warspite between the planet and anything approaching from interstellar space, as well as allowing her to dial down her power emissions by cutting her engines.
The hope of course was nothing would ever come, but with the beginning of open war between the Federation and the Kzin Empire someone had to keep an eye on the outer colonies. Justly so, in this case - somewhere out at the edge of the solar system was an increasing subspace distortion, the telltale sign of ships approaching at high warp for a final sprint to their target.
The bridge was a hub of activity as the dreadnought prepared for battle. Despite her sheer mass and array of weaponry, the Warspite was undeniably a ship past her prime. Polarised plating was a poor substitute for shields, and her multitude of phase cannons were no match for a modern Type-2. With Kzin raiders posing a threat to two new combat frigates straight out of the yards, the prospects of an actual engagement with anything as sophisticated were not ideal.
Captain Farouk was a veteran of the Romulan War, and knew full well that the outcome of battle could hinge on ephemeral factors beyond his control. He had only been a tactical officer at the time, but he had a personal hand in many of the preparations a ship could make for war duty. His old captain had always said it was the duty of a commanding officer to stack the deck as much as possible in her crew's favour. It was a lesson he had learned well and was putting to practice.
The bridge turbolift hissed open, the cylindrical door rotating open. Farouk didn't allow the new arrival time to report before interrogating them without moving from his position bent over the shoulder of his chief science officer - a role that had much more to do with sensors than science on a dreadnought than the name suggested. "Miss Mires, status on my torpedoes?"
"All warheads in the aft and forward racks have been set for proximity detonation," his tactical chief reported, the woman's cuffs rumpled and creased by well over an hour of reaching inside torpedo casings. "Two hundred meters or closer. Are you sure we shouldn't keep some in reserve on impact triggers, Captain?"
Farouk shook his head. "If there's any lesson to take from the New Providence report, it's that we'd struggle to hit a Kzin cruiser with modern photons, let alone our old photonics. No, best stick to bracketing fire and rely on our cannons to sustain fire on target." The captain kept his eyes fixed on the sensor screen. "What do you think, Mr Guttieres? Will they see us if we try a more focused scan?"
"Almost certainly," the science officer reported. "But even without and judging by the size of this distortion we're looking at an aggregate mass of nearly eighty thousand tons, split between nearly a dozen ships."
"So we could be looking at anything from a dozen small raiders to a heavy frigate and a bunch of warp-capable shuttles," Mires surmised. "Those are two very difficult engagement plans."
The captain nodded, pulling back from the station. "Either way we'll definitely be dealing with smaller targets. Recommendations, Miss Mires?"
The tactical chief considered for a moment, brow furrowing. "We should hit them with a brace of torpedoes early on, while they're still grouped together. Other than that it might be worth retasking some of our turrets for autonomous fire. Take out some of the smaller craft or at least keep them too busy to run planetside."
"Can the computer handle that many firing solutions simultaneously?" Farouk inquired. "If they have any kind of countermeasures the targeting sensors may not be able to isolate their signatures."
Mires shook her head. "Not ordinarily. But if we divert secondary power to the main sensor palette I'm confident that will give us the extra clarity we need."
"Mr Guttieres?"
The science officer nodded slowly. "It should work, especially if we're cutting through wave-based countermeasures. But the engagement lasts more than ten minutes? I can't promise the sensors will stay up under that power load."
Mires shook her head. "No sign of targeted particle ECM in the New Providence engagement. They pull it out, we cut the power and switch to conventional narrow-beam targeting."
Farouk nodded, satisfied with the discussion between his officers. "Good. Mr Guttieres, set up a program to divert power to the main sensor palette. Miss Mires, retask the odd-numbered phase cannons on our main battery for small-craft suppression."
"Aye Captain."
"Load our first salvo into the forward tubes and rig for warp speed, but keep our other systems cold. I don't want to give them more warning than we have to."
The Kzin force dropped out of warp in a staggered series of subspace shocks, minute flashes of light resolving into a streak of colour as the small craft reverted to sublight speeds. Behind them a red-painted cruiser dropped out with its three catamaran nacelles glowing a soft purple. As their engines powered down, the Warspite powered up and a surge of energised plasma into the nacelles threw the dreadnought into warp in a flash of bright blue light.
It took time for any starship to escalate from an initial speed of warp one to normal cruising speeds. For a vessel as outdated as the Warspite, it could take over half a minute to follow her acceleration curve all the way up to warp five. But when even warp one could cover the distance between the Kzin force and the lagrange point the dreadnought had been lurking around in less than a second the point was moot. The Starfleet ship dropped out of its short warp jump right behind them, and a simultaneous launch sent four photonic torpedoes careening towards the Kzin formation in a loose bracket.
Some of the runabout-sized ships had begun to react already, low-power particle shields going up and engines flaring to peel them away from the group. It saved their lives as the blazing orange of the torpedoes flew past them at a deceptively rapid pace, the Kzin pilots' last-second adjustments putting them outside the detonation zone. Their less reactive comrades were not so fortunate, the antimatter payloads erupting in a spray of hard radiation and particle emissions that instantly ablated swathes of their outer hulls. Three of the Kzin small-craft instantly erupted as their structural frames flash-heated to well above boiling point, atmospheres combusting into a short-lived flash of orange fire mixed with a spray of silvery debris.
The larger cruiser began to pivot on its axis, the long length of its crimson hull coming about to target the Starfleet dreadnought with its abundance of forward weapons. As it did, the Warspite's tactical systems finished their cold-start sequence and her phase cannons stabbed at the Kzin vessel with a barrage of scarlet beams, first two, then four, then six, then eight. The cannons were two generations old, but quantity had a quality all of its own.
The cruiser's shields wobbled, the field of pale green light protecting the underlying plating from the nadion beams. But while it could withstand the assault with aplomb, the same could not be said of the small fleet of personal craft it had escorted to what was expected to be a defenseless colony world. The Warspite's phase cannons effortlessly gimballed and turned to track the now-scattering survivors of its initial torpedo strike, individual turrets picking out the comparatively tiny ships and swatting them out of the battlespace. Antiquated as phase cannons were, they were still military-grade weapon emplacements and particle-scattering shields meant to deflect radiation and shuttle-power plasma weapons were not their match.
The Kzin marauders vanished in puffs of fire and hull fragments, unaware of the potent irony that any modern Starfleet ship would have struggled to interdict them with their fewer but more powerful phasers, while the NZ-class dreadnought was blessed with a much weaker but abundant arsenal. By the time the cruiser had come about to target the Warspite, all that was left of the smaller ships were expanding clouds of debris.
Then the slugging match started. Cannons flashed with actinic fire, plasma bolts the size of shuttlecraft smashing across the dreadnought's forward saucer. With no shields to defend itself the ship could only endure as superheated gas hammered into the hull plating, an expanding wash of electric-blue light haloing the impact points as the polarisation diffused the incoming charge. But it couldn't prevent damage entirely, entire panels of the hull turning scorched black under the bombardment.
Phase cannons replied in abundance, manoeuvring thrusters beginning to roll the ship to starboard so her entire dorsal armament could engage the enemy. As the cruiser weathered the barrage it made to swing around to the dreadnought's aft while peppering the Starfleet vessel with its lighter cannons, which the Warspite attempted to delay by entering into a chasing-circle. But it only added seconds to the inevitable as the Kzin attack cruiser's powerful engines and lighter mass allowed it to out-accelerate the ageing dreadnought and enter the Warspite's aft quarter. Two photonic torpedoes leapt out of the aft launchers, which the cruiser effortlessly avoided by threading the needle between the two, but the proximity warheads detonated regardless.
The indiscriminate blasts of the photonics bathed the area in energetic radiation with an effect many times weaker than the focused and shaped charge of a contact detonation, the cruiser's shields briefly washing with a faint sheen of light. The Kzin and Warspite were both blinded as the sensors fuzzed, but that didn't matter when the dueling ships both knew where the other was. But it did matter. The moment the torpedoes went off, the shine of the dreadnought's twin impulse thrusters went from a steady blue to a flickering, uneven white as the aft bucked downwards to put the Warspite into a sharp climb.
The fusion reactor that fed the impulse drive surged in temperature, and a heartbeat later the hull plating over the reactor shattered outwards in an eruption of reactant, the emergency vent system reduced to shrapnel by the violent shockwave and carried out into space in a plume of fire. The impulse engines went dark, but the deed was done. As the Kzin cruiser's sensors came back, it saw the bow of the sluggish dreadnought rising into an uncontrollable somersault, and with it the full panoply of its cannon batteries.
The dorsal weapons fired in one linked battery, all eight of the midline cannons slamming into the cruiser's nose. Plasma bolts rained across the hull in response, and alarms roared through the Starfleet ship as hull breaches opened all across the upper decks. But the Warspite was built for battle and as the dorsal cannons began to power cycle the bow battery descended down to face the cruiser, the now upside-down dreadnought slamming another octet of scarlet particle beams right into her enemy.
There was a flicker of green energy struggling to maintain cohesion across the Kzin's hull, then the cruiser's shields failed altogether. The phase cannons carved deep furrows into the bow, outer hull simply dissolving away as the nadions dissolved the bonds between atoms that made up the plating. In exchange the Warspite lost a chunk of its forward deflector to a flash of plasma fire, the blue glow behind the copper-gold dish sputtering out. Her forward launchers replied, a quartet of torpedoes leaping across the intervening space. This time the proximity blasts stripped armor, puffs of atmosphere gouting from the sides of the Kzin cruiser as inner compartments were exposed to space.
Return fire slackened, only a few plasma cannons still operating. Explosions nonetheless blossomed across the Warspite's ventral hull as she spun on her axis, but the writing was on the wall. Her ventral cannons lanced out, stabbing deep into the internals of the cruiser and atomising the interior. Secondary explosions rippled back through the ship, the spaceframe twisting and fracturing in its death throes. Then it went quiet and dark, the Warspite wreathed in a faint glow from its own vented atmosphere as its thrusters slowly cancelled out its spin.
The battle was over, the last hurrah of United Earth's behemoth who would months later limp back to Earth for her scheduled decommissioning. But it was not a battle that would be forgotten, and a finer send-off the grand old lady could not have hoped for.
Outside the theater the heads of Utopia Planitia and San Francisco fleetyards discarded their confectionary bags into the recycler. Neither was especially recognisable, an effect that was not entirely accidental. Some friendly competition was always welcome to push their teams to produce their best work, and overt fraternization could spoil the effect.
"What did you think?" SanFran asked. "Aside from the usual inaccuracies."
"It was a faithful rendition of the battle," Planetia replied, wiping off her fingers with a paper napkin. "Although at that point nobody was wearing United Earth jumpsuits anymore. The interior systems were sometimes more Romulan War than pre-decommission, as well. But good to see the Thunderchild line get recognition and I did like the main plot with the colonists, too, so it wasn't boring waiting until the battle sequence."
SanFran hummed in agreement. "Hopefully we are never so desperate we need to build their like again. Have your eye on a project after the collaboration with Yoyodyne is up?"
"Narrowed it down to two. Need some more preliminary assessments done first."
"Mrm."
"Mrm."
The pair spent a moment in companionable silence, then with a perfunctory farewell departed in opposite directions. There were always more ships to build, and time waited for no-one.
Last edited:
Fabula Amanti
I want a Grimoire, but I got books.
- Location
- Singapore
Welcome back!
chaotic-logic
possible impossibility
- Location
- unknown
Good to you back sayle.
More dreadnaughts when?
Meanwhile every single Starfleet Explorer ship basically being a Dreadnought.
