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- an unseen void
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Very persuaded by the sprint argument here. A minor loss in efficiency for the much less time sensitive part of its workload in exchange for being a fast responder. Being able to do crisis response is part of the point of going with this size ship and not the small specialist.
1.5 hours early mate.
Basically, it synergises really well with all of the goals we've got for this ship. If anything it'd be a detriment to pick cruise, because you'd need a whole bunch of ships to make up for the speed loss.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Yeah, like, lean into it. This is not designed to be a long range cruiser, this is a survey ship and a troubleshooter, the ability to really book it in a crisis is important.
Especially since while the Efficient Cruise is better in Cruise Mode, the Maximum Cruise is better in the Sprint Version, simply because it's got a higher top end number to average out.
We committed to this not being a specialist, so we're leaning into it being able to double as a troubleshooter in a pinch, which means fast response is more important than standard patrol speed.
- Location
- Springfield, Illinois
It might just be me but... is this thing a bit weird, like the neck feels like it should be thicker in the terms of when you are looking at the ship straight on, like it its sort of mismatched. I don't know exactly why but it feels off. I don't know why. Perhaps my brain is looking at it and seeing a connie and it trying to think in those terms and failing. Anyway, proto connie??
Empress_Boog
Grand Empress
[X] Sprint-Configuration (Warp 7.2 -> 7.6 Maximum) [373c -> 438c]
I am the Sprint Mafia!
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Here's the thing: you can only sprint for 12 hours. So for sprint to be the best option. The problem would need to be within 12 hours of the ship's location when they get the call for sprint to pay off.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Maximum Cruise is a thing.
Raising the cap by +.4 vs raising the floor by +.2 still gets you an increased Maximum Cruise speed, and we're now operating at Warp Factors where that matters.
And the reduced fuel efficiency and higher wear and tear is mitigated thanks to the Pharos-type Starbases rolling out.
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
Not necessarily, you can cruise at your lower speed then sprint the last 12 hours
Empress_Boog
Grand Empress
Yeah, but increasing sprint increases the maximum warp of the ship far better than increasing efficient cruise does. Max Cruise is what is actually mostly likely to respond to an emergency.
- Location
- Somewhere in the Ashes
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It has to be cruise. 25% more cruise speed vs 16% more sprint speed? No brainer.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
To further explain.
Maximum Cruise on the Cruise configuration is Warp 6.3
Maximum Cruise on the Sprint configuration is Warp 6.4
That's another 12c. That Matters in a crisis. That's the difference between getting to the Incident in the nick of time or arriving an hour too late even at relatively short distance rushes, and the further you have to go, the more that extra 12c matters.
EDIT: Might actually be a bit higher, Warp 6.5, but I'm not sure if I'm doing the math right so I'm sticking with my initial back of the napkin calcs where I just did a quick and dirty mean between the two warp factors
Maximum Cruise on the Cruise configuration is Warp 6.3
Maximum Cruise on the Sprint configuration is Warp 6.4
That's another 12c. That Matters in a crisis. That's the difference between getting to the Incident in the nick of time or arriving an hour too late even at relatively short distance rushes, and the further you have to go, the more that extra 12c matters.
EDIT: Might actually be a bit higher, Warp 6.5, but I'm not sure if I'm doing the math right so I'm sticking with my initial back of the napkin calcs where I just did a quick and dirty mean between the two warp factors
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The TOS Connie neck was rather thin on the whole, but from what I can tell/can recall it was a much longer one so that kinda balanced things out.
Not just a crisis, but for many more regular duties. Whilst planets and stellar phenomena are going to be a decent part of their survey work there's going to be a huge number of time sensitive things for them to get their sensors on, reoccurring phenomena like the Nexus for example (since prior to proper catalogue there's likely sparse information available on its routine).
Ehhh, I'm ambivalent about the Sprint config, as long as the limitation for that higher max speed is still 12 hours ish. Not going that much further in that timespan.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Maximum Cruise is still a thing, and Sprint has a higher Maximum Cruise value.
Notably, Maximum Cruise can be sustained for a full marathon, it's just harder on the fuel and on the ship, but we just implemented a bunch of logistical hubs all over the place, so that's a sharply mitigated problem.
Keep in mind, as well as this ship in particular, a big push for sprint speed here and now might see an earlier attempt at the 'Transwarp Drive' that historically the Excelsior debuted. Even if it's not transwarp as we understand it now, if it was basically the precursor to the TNG warp scale, which is generally accepted as WF^(10/3) verses the present WF^2 for the C value, as is sometimes headcannoned as we could really open up the galaxy decades earlier than historically done.
TheShadowDeamon
Mighty Dragon
[ ] Cruise-Configuration (Warp 5.2 -> 5.4 Cruise) [140c -> 175c]
[ ] Sprint-Configuration (Warp 7.2 -> 7.6 Maximum) [373c -> 438c]
Based on these, the Effecient cruise/Max cruise/Top speed would be:
Cruise - 5.4/6.3/7.2 = 175c/274c/373c
Sprint - 5.2/6.4/7.6 = 140c/289c/438c
@Sayle can I get a sanity check on the math please.
This would suggest that although the Sprint has a lower effecient cruise, it's max sustainable cruise is actually higher. Combine this with the nicer top speed and I'm leaning towards the sprint setting. I know that we like the higher top speed for emergency use, but remember that it can only be sustained for 12 - 24 hours and that:
"Space," [the Hitchhiker's Guide] says, "is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space.
Therefore as 365.25c = 1 light year every 24 hours:
Top speed: 24 hrs of 373c = 1.021 light years and 438c = 1.199 light years. = 178/1000 = 17.8% of a light year extra
What we should be concentrating on is the maximum sustainable speed:
Max cruise: 24 hrs of 274c = 0.75 light years and 289c = 0.791 light years = 41/1000 = 4.1% of a light year extra EVER DAY!!
Yes, this is a minor increase, however over multiple days it adds up - an extra 0.492 light years ever 12 days and once we get closer we can them dash to the finish. Now based on this, how often are we going to have an emergency situation we can sprint to in under 24hrs? More than likely it'll be a multi-day detour. If Sayle agrees with my original ce/cm/ts calculations I will be voting for the Sprint configuration purely for the higher sustainable cruising speed.
[ ] Sprint-Configuration (Warp 7.2 -> 7.6 Maximum) [373c -> 438c]
Based on these, the Effecient cruise/Max cruise/Top speed would be:
Cruise - 5.4/6.3/7.2 = 175c/274c/373c
Sprint - 5.2/6.4/7.6 = 140c/289c/438c
@Sayle can I get a sanity check on the math please.
This would suggest that although the Sprint has a lower effecient cruise, it's max sustainable cruise is actually higher. Combine this with the nicer top speed and I'm leaning towards the sprint setting. I know that we like the higher top speed for emergency use, but remember that it can only be sustained for 12 - 24 hours and that:
"Space," [the Hitchhiker's Guide] says, "is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space.
Therefore as 365.25c = 1 light year every 24 hours:
Top speed: 24 hrs of 373c = 1.021 light years and 438c = 1.199 light years. = 178/1000 = 17.8% of a light year extra
What we should be concentrating on is the maximum sustainable speed:
Max cruise: 24 hrs of 274c = 0.75 light years and 289c = 0.791 light years = 41/1000 = 4.1% of a light year extra EVER DAY!!
Yes, this is a minor increase, however over multiple days it adds up - an extra 0.492 light years ever 12 days and once we get closer we can them dash to the finish. Now based on this, how often are we going to have an emergency situation we can sprint to in under 24hrs? More than likely it'll be a multi-day detour. If Sayle agrees with my original ce/cm/ts calculations I will be voting for the Sprint configuration purely for the higher sustainable cruising speed.
That's an even better point. With our newest starbases, and any future ones/what goes to replace them, maximum cruise (under sprint) is suddenly looking a lot more attractive between enhanced fuel and repair capabilities.
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Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
No I can't choose salt when speed is on the table.
Wait, is one of the arguments here that the Sprint option is better at cruising than the Cruise option? Because that doesn't make sense. I'm not arguing the numbers that have been given by posters, but conceptually that just doesn't make sense to me.
Personally, I'm going for for cruising, because it's primary role is as a survey ship, and that fits.
Personally, I'm going for for cruising, because it's primary role is as a survey ship, and that fits.
It has a higher maximum cruise, owing to its speed focus. It also has a lower efficient cruise speed since it's not optimised for cruise.
Maximum cruise though still sustainable for a great period of time is more fuel intensive compared to the efficient cruising speed, it also wears on the parts more heavily compared to the efficient cruise. However, we've recently made a Starbase type dotted around the Federation that provides comprehensive refuelling and the sort of component repair that these ships would need after a long maximum cruise journey/journeys.
Furthermore, there are many instances where a science ship would need to be able to sprint, to say nothing of the secondary roles they find themselves given.
With this in mind, combined with the fact we explicitly did not go for a smaller design that's just meant to sail merrily around within the Federation/close proximity the sprint configuration is the more logical choice.
Our infrastructure and even the basic premise of the ship work very well with a sprint configuration.
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