- Location
- United States
[X] External Intercoolers (+Complexity [A -> B+]/+1 Cost, +Cruise) (One Success Roll: Cruise Increase [0.2 - 0.4]
Linked contents
I just did a mockup of a single semi-internal nacelle saucer. I think it doesn't look too bad.
It's a 120 meter saucer with an inline secondary hull. I swept the edge of the saucer all the way back to the inline hull to give it a teardrop outline. The deflector is in a blister swung under the saucer and a second blister is swung above the saucer to provide a spot for a photon torpedo tube.
The idea is a budget picket. It's not the biggest or the fastest, but with a single nacelle and a limited size it could be produced in numbers. It would have performed the role of anti-pirate patrol ship and planetary defense picket. It doesn't need to go far and it doesn't need to go fast, but it goes far enough and fast enough to get the job done and the job is normally to put 6 phasors and a photon torpedo in a place to ensure that place stays peaceful.
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TheShadowDeamon
Mighty Dragon
I just did a mockup of a single nacelle semi-internal nacelle saucer. I think it doesn't look too bad.
Looks like a giant key fob or a bottle opener
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It's the key to the Federation's security, and it opens the way to prosperity
[X] External Intercoolers (+Complexity [A -> B+]/+1 Cost, +Cruise) (One Success Roll: Cruise Increase [0.2 - 0.4]
You can also do a top semi-internal nacelle without a secondary hull at all and I think it looks pretty neat.
It started as a joke challenge in the Starfleet Design Bauru. What would be the minimal starship that could be constructed? While many designs got submitted from silly to absurd, it was the design submitted by designer Kevin Wachowski that ultimately caught the eyes of the Admiralty and what started as a joke turned into something all together far more serious.
More specifically it was the question the Admiralty asked immediately upon hearing about the joke contest that turned things more serious.
"Wait, you can build one for HOW much?"
The Kevin (named for it's designer because he never intended it to be a serious design, but the name stuck none the less) is about the minimal ship you can build with a saucer and a type 2 warp coil. At a mere 100 meters in beam and only slightly more than that in length, the Kevin is ridiculously cheap to build. What more, it used the same exact nacelle as the Cygnet class. At the time this was because Kevin simply copied the nacelle design to save time, but as fate would have it this would prove prophetic.
This is because the Kevin class was implemented as a class of ship constructed from salvage as the numerous Cygnet class cruisers left service due to age and damage. By this point the federation had already retooled to build a new class of warp coil, and this inevitably meant the Cygnet's warp coil was considered obsolete.
But for the Kevin class this didn't matter. The Kevin class was unique in that it was one of the first purely civilian crafts to employ a warp 7 engine. It barely got halfway through warp 6 at sprint, but as a civilian craft this didn't matter. The oversized (for the Kevin) nacelle and still gave the craft a respectable cruise speed. The simple truth was this - while the Cygnet class was a great ship that served for many decades a steady stream of Cygnets ended up with irreparable damage simply due to the tasks assigned to them. A single Cygnet, broken down and recycled, could produce 2 Kevin class starships for a fraction of the cost it would take to produce a ship from scratch. Even when the Cygnet class had a lull in decommissioning the factories that build Cygnet nacelles would then have overflow production, meaning it became attractive to produce a Kevin class regardless. This means that while Starfleet never commissioned Kevins to be built in batches a steady trickle of the little starships still entered use.
Built with modular internals a Kevin class could be retooled to perform just about any task that could be performed by a ship of it's admittedly small size. A single Kevin frequently got retooled for different tasks dozens of times during it's service life. It performed a multitude of tasks too low priority for a Cygnet, but yet unable to be done by a mere shuttlecraft. It was packed with sensors and sent to do detained mineral surveys of already explored systems. It was given a fabrication suit and sent to do low priority maintenance of far flung colonies. It was hollowed out and used as a fast cargo ship. It was even used as a fast transport when select individuals needed to travel within the Federation and speed was required but a real Starfleet vessel could not be justified.
Ultimately a footnote in history, the Kevin (and it's sister ships such as Bob and Aerith) none the less marked a turning point in federation history. It marked the point that warp 7 engines moved from purely the purview of Starfleet and out into access by the wider Federation.
It started as a joke challenge in the Starfleet Design Bauru. What would be the minimal starship that could be constructed? While many designs got submitted from silly to absurd, it was the design submitted by designer Kevin Wachowski that ultimately caught the eyes of the Admiralty and what started as a joke turned into something all together far more serious.
More specifically it was the question the Admiralty asked immediately upon hearing about the joke contest that turned things more serious.
"Wait, you can build one for HOW much?"
The Kevin (named for it's designer because he never intended it to be a serious design, but the name stuck none the less) is about the minimal ship you can build with a saucer and a type 2 warp coil. At a mere 100 meters in beam and only slightly more than that in length, the Kevin is ridiculously cheap to build. What more, it used the same exact nacelle as the Cygnet class. At the time this was because Kevin simply copied the nacelle design to save time, but as fate would have it this would prove prophetic.
This is because the Kevin class was implemented as a class of ship constructed from salvage as the numerous Cygnet class cruisers left service due to age and damage. By this point the federation had already retooled to build a new class of warp coil, and this inevitably meant the Cygnet's warp coil was considered obsolete.
But for the Kevin class this didn't matter. The Kevin class was unique in that it was one of the first purely civilian crafts to employ a warp 7 engine. It barely got halfway through warp 6 at sprint, but as a civilian craft this didn't matter. The oversized (for the Kevin) nacelle and still gave the craft a respectable cruise speed. The simple truth was this - while the Cygnet class was a great ship that served for many decades a steady stream of Cygnets ended up with irreparable damage simply due to the tasks assigned to them. A single Cygnet, broken down and recycled, could produce 2 Kevin class starships for a fraction of the cost it would take to produce a ship from scratch. Even when the Cygnet class had a lull in decommissioning the factories that build Cygnet nacelles would then have overflow production, meaning it became attractive to produce a Kevin class regardless. This means that while Starfleet never commissioned Kevins to be built in batches a steady trickle of the little starships still entered use.
Built with modular internals a Kevin class could be retooled to perform just about any task that could be performed by a ship of it's admittedly small size. A single Kevin frequently got retooled for different tasks dozens of times during it's service life. It performed a multitude of tasks too low priority for a Cygnet, but yet unable to be done by a mere shuttlecraft. It was packed with sensors and sent to do detained mineral surveys of already explored systems. It was given a fabrication suit and sent to do low priority maintenance of far flung colonies. It was hollowed out and used as a fast cargo ship. It was even used as a fast transport when select individuals needed to travel within the Federation and speed was required but a real Starfleet vessel could not be justified.
Ultimately a footnote in history, the Kevin (and it's sister ships such as Bob and Aerith) none the less marked a turning point in federation history. It marked the point that warp 7 engines moved from purely the purview of Starfleet and out into access by the wider Federation.
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[X] Cryonitrium Intercoolers (+Complexity [A -> B+], +Cruise) (One Success Roll: Cruise Increase [0.1 - 0.2]
2180: Type-3 Nacelle (Length)
[X] External Intercoolers (+Complexity [A -> B+]/+1 Cost, +Cruise) (One Success Roll: Cruise Increase [0.2 - 0.4]
The intercooler piping is carefully installed, the gaseous cryonetrium designed to circulate through the solid intercoolers that separate the primary warp coils from each other. With the temperature monitors and responsive injectors linked together, it should be possible to tamp down thermal variances across the nacelles. The coolant is only capable of reducing temperatures rather than adjusting it upwards, so the overall energy of the nacelle drops slightly as a result. But the homogenization of the warp coil output more than makes up for that, the subspace fields acting in harmony to increase the overall spatial warp generated by the engines.
The final section of the intercoolers will be the external piping, which in combination with radiators and thermal diverters will keep the coolant as cold as possible before recirculating it back to the primary assembly. Every degree counts when you want to be able to rapidly pass temperature from one area to another. But those pipes cannot be installed until you conclude one of the most vital design configurations: the length of the nacelle.
Standard lengths are standard for a reason, providing the ideal efficiencies. The maximum output of the warp core neatly dovetails with the maximum capacity of the warp coils, resulting in a minimal capacity overhead. There is no reason to make a shorter nacelle. But there is one to potentially make a longer one. As the internal volume of the plasma expands, the maximum temperature attainable by the warp core drops, reducing maximum speed. But the addition of more warp coils allows for a more stable warp field and reduced load across the individual coils. Maximum speed decreases while the efficient cruise rises.
The effect is not entirely equal: the speed losses from the decreasing plasma temperature are greater than the speed gains from an increased cruise. Even mounting the nacelles for a sprint configuration cannot completely offset this reduction, but increased strategic speed has plenty of advocates. The question is if, given the current state of the design, the decision is worth the downsides.
[ ] Standard Length
[ ] Extended Length (-0.6 Maximum Warp, +0.4 Cruise)
Yoyodyne Type-3 Nacelle Assembly
Bussard Collectors -> Injector Assembly -> Warp Coils -> Intercoolers -> Nacelle Length -> Field Stabilizer
Cost: 6
Complexity: B+
Current Base Cruise: Warp 4.8 (+0.2 - 0.4)
Current Base Maximum: Warp 6.8 (+0.2 - +0.6)
Two Hour Moratorium, Please
The intercooler piping is carefully installed, the gaseous cryonetrium designed to circulate through the solid intercoolers that separate the primary warp coils from each other. With the temperature monitors and responsive injectors linked together, it should be possible to tamp down thermal variances across the nacelles. The coolant is only capable of reducing temperatures rather than adjusting it upwards, so the overall energy of the nacelle drops slightly as a result. But the homogenization of the warp coil output more than makes up for that, the subspace fields acting in harmony to increase the overall spatial warp generated by the engines.
The final section of the intercoolers will be the external piping, which in combination with radiators and thermal diverters will keep the coolant as cold as possible before recirculating it back to the primary assembly. Every degree counts when you want to be able to rapidly pass temperature from one area to another. But those pipes cannot be installed until you conclude one of the most vital design configurations: the length of the nacelle.
Standard lengths are standard for a reason, providing the ideal efficiencies. The maximum output of the warp core neatly dovetails with the maximum capacity of the warp coils, resulting in a minimal capacity overhead. There is no reason to make a shorter nacelle. But there is one to potentially make a longer one. As the internal volume of the plasma expands, the maximum temperature attainable by the warp core drops, reducing maximum speed. But the addition of more warp coils allows for a more stable warp field and reduced load across the individual coils. Maximum speed decreases while the efficient cruise rises.
The effect is not entirely equal: the speed losses from the decreasing plasma temperature are greater than the speed gains from an increased cruise. Even mounting the nacelles for a sprint configuration cannot completely offset this reduction, but increased strategic speed has plenty of advocates. The question is if, given the current state of the design, the decision is worth the downsides.
[ ] Standard Length
[ ] Extended Length (-0.6 Maximum Warp, +0.4 Cruise)
Yoyodyne Type-3 Nacelle Assembly
Bussard Collectors -> Injector Assembly -> Warp Coils -> Intercoolers -> Nacelle Length -> Field Stabilizer
Cost: 6
Complexity: B+
Current Base Cruise: Warp 4.8 (+0.2 - 0.4)
Current Base Maximum: Warp 6.8 (+0.2 - +0.6)
Two Hour Moratorium, Please
Empress_Boog
Grand Empress
Now this is an interesting choice, and while the +.4 Cruise is extremely tempting, having a new nacelle with a lower maximum warp than the previous ship we just designed seems like a weird choice. As such I will be voting for the Standard Length.
[ ] Standard Length
[X] Extended Length (-0.6 Maximum Warp, +0.4 Cruise)
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[ ] Extended Length (-0.6 Maximum Warp, +0.4 Cruise)
She's a BRICK...HOUSE
In all seriousness, with halfway tolerable rolls on the previous Warp Max items, this comes out to a net gain of +4 Cruise. Perfect rolls gets us a net +Max Warp, and even if we roll poorly a -2 or -3 max warp in exchange for +4 cruise is a pretty good trade.
EDIT: here's the actual numbers for the Max Warp options we currently have
[ ] Field-Focused Bussard Injectors (+Complexity, +Warp Maximum) [Prototype]
[ ] Polyferride Alloy (+1 Cost) [Prototype] (One Success Roll: Maximum Warp Increase [0.1 - 0.4])
So we have a guaranteed +1 minimum/+4 maximum Max Warp, and another roll for improving Max Warp, not including whatever the next option gives us.
She's a BRICK...HOUSE
In all seriousness, with halfway tolerable rolls on the previous Warp Max items, this comes out to a net gain of +4 Cruise. Perfect rolls gets us a net +Max Warp, and even if we roll poorly a -2 or -3 max warp in exchange for +4 cruise is a pretty good trade.
EDIT: here's the actual numbers for the Max Warp options we currently have
[ ] Field-Focused Bussard Injectors (+Complexity, +Warp Maximum) [Prototype]
[ ] Polyferride Alloy (+1 Cost) [Prototype] (One Success Roll: Maximum Warp Increase [0.1 - 0.4])
So we have a guaranteed +1 minimum/+4 maximum Max Warp, and another roll for improving Max Warp, not including whatever the next option gives us.
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Empress_Boog
Grand Empress
The problem is that this is not true. Project Copernicus ended with a ship capable of a Max Warp Factor of 7, even if we get perfect rolls on our maximum here, and then take extended, we still end up with a ship that goes slower in an emergency. Even if we take it in sprint configuration every time, it still will not keep up.
I simply cannot accept that as an option.
- Location
- Wörms, the half continent
That is a painful, painful, painful loss of max warp. At our current designs, we'd be losing around 25% of our top speed (going from Warp 7, 343c to Warp 6.4 at 262) which is very painful. Not sure if this is a max cruise or efficient cruise bonus, but like, if it's Max and it applied to Sargamartha, we'd have a Max Warp of 6.4 and a Max Cruise of 6.4. And I think we value having the ability to push into the redzone to like.... any extent.
I added the relevant options to my previous post, but I'll recap here;
We have a guaranteed +1 min/+4 max warp
And we have another roll for max warp, which may raise that further.
So as a matter of fact, we have a not-insignificant chance of breaking even as far as max warp goes even with the -6. And if QM continues the trend of alternating what boosts what, the next choice will be another Max Warp boost.
In exchange, we get +4 cruise from the Extended
and a roll for +2 min/+4 max cruise from the previous choice.
Copernicus was Base Cruise 5/High Cruise 6/Max Warp 7.
With this EN arrangement, our MINIMUM is Base Cruise 5.6/High Cruise 6.6/Max Warp 6.4-ish (which in actuality will be 6.6 because it's not going to be lower than Max Cruise).
Maximum is Base Cruise 5.8/High Cruise 6.8/Max Warp 6.9. Max Warp might be even higher, because one of the Max Warp options is not actually quantified.
We can cruise forever until the fuel runs out at a speed only marginally slower than the Copernicus' max warp even if our rolls are shit.
EDIT: Fixed a couple numbers and did a bit of formatting.
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- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] Standard Length
TheShadowDeamon
Mighty Dragon
Based on our choices so far, if everything only gets the minimum speed boost, is +0.6 max speed. So at a minimum our ship could still make sprint 6.8 with a cruise of 5.2+
However it's unlikely that all the dice rolls will be minimum and there are still more choices to be made. I personally like the idea of a high cruise speed so:
[ ] Extended Length (-0.6 Maximum Warp, +0.4 Cruise)
- Location
- Louisville, GA
Hmm, so that would change the engine to:
Current Base Cruise: Warp 5.2 (+0.2 - 0.4)
Current Base Maximum: Warp 6.2 (+0.2 - +0.6)
Assuming middle range results on both ranges would be:
Current Base Cruise: Warp 5.5
Current Base Maximum: Warp 6.6
vs:
Current Base Cruise: Warp 5.1
Current Base Maximum: Warp 7.2
------------
That cruise speed gets us a very large useful range, and the ability to concentrate force much faster than anyone else. Remember that the vast majority of fleet work is going to be at cruise speed, cruise speed all the way.
Current Base Cruise: Warp 5.2 (+0.2 - 0.4)
Current Base Maximum: Warp 6.2 (+0.2 - +0.6)
Assuming middle range results on both ranges would be:
Current Base Cruise: Warp 5.5
Current Base Maximum: Warp 6.6
vs:
Current Base Cruise: Warp 5.1
Current Base Maximum: Warp 7.2
------------
That cruise speed gets us a very large useful range, and the ability to concentrate force much faster than anyone else. Remember that the vast majority of fleet work is going to be at cruise speed, cruise speed all the way.
- Location
- Wörms, the half continent
I think you're mistaking how Base/High works, although I'm admittedly not 100% on it, but it's clearly not a flat +1 to Base (see Cygnus)
But, looking at our past ships, High Cruise appears to be the half way point between base cruise and Max Warp. This would give us a minimum arrangement of 5.6/6/6.4 (which is shit, just, look at that) or a Maximum of 5.6/6.25/6.9, which is like... I'm not enthralled by that, really?
- Pronouns
- she/her
It's a tough choice, but if it helps anyone decide, forget about speed and remember that one option results in longer nacelles.