I feel like Picard is probably not the best way to look at canon from DS9-onwards. Especially with the whole "the entirety of a scientific, exploration, policing, military, peacekeeping, and survey fleet that spans a huge chunk of the galaxy all gets together in one place for a single day despite the impossibility on every level of something like that, let alone the utter absence of intelligence put into such an idea" thing.
...and then having a galaxy-wide "element blows up" event because some kid had some trauma thing wrecking the entire Federation and having humanity leave the organization it founded...yeah, Star Trek canon kind of went downhill after DS9.
... Federation Day is really silly. But it makes some sense. Demonstration Grand Fleets are a thing. As depicted in Trek, it's a surprisingly small Navy outside war time. (My issues with it are too spoilery to get into here.)
So. The Burn is really dumb. But I can see Earth leaving the Federation. Humanity is full of examples of people not persisting in things even when it makes sense to. It also seems like by this time the Federation is no longer HQ'd on Earth, which helps.
Like I don't like either element, and the Burn is what broke me on DIS, but the on-effects make some kind of sense.
I tend to just view a lot of new trek stuff as non-cannon or a seperate-timeline anyways, not all of it is bad, but it just doesn't feel like the Star Trek I grew up liking. Even the kelvin movie verse is redeemed somewhat in at least one of its novels, which has the feel of a TOS episode with mildly different characters.
There were ways that the concepts of both Dis and Picard shows could have been handled better, but they both feel like generic sci-fi. A lot of the space battles shown also seem to diverge from the standard trek way of combat, and feel less navy battle, and more Ariel dogfight.
Anyways we probably shouldn't derail the thread too much, even if I do dislike new-trek...
Literally feels like a TOS episode, there's only a brief combat scene in the beginning, the rest of the book has very little overt fighting. Really the only noticeable character difference is scotty being a drunk and Spock leaning more towards his human side (awkward romance with Uhura)
Basically the plot is Kirk and crew save a distressed colony ship of a peaceful and very intelligent alien race, and the people attacking the colony ship warn kirk about the alien colonists being a danger. They don't believe it, have the alien colonists settle down on a moon in another agreeable alien races solar system. Then after time passes, those aliens call Starfleet and complain about how the alien colonists are so hyper competent and so helpful that they have started to insidiously take over their society though gift-giving advanced tech so good its giving everyone depression from a rapidly developing inferiority complex. In any case Spock single handedly saves the day at the end, and confine the alien colonist on the moon because otherwise they'd essentially take over everything though the power of gift giving.
We could cut the engineering hull entirely, just extend out the back of a Copernicus hull. Cut down the nascelles to two and slide them under the saucer. Add a rollbar for extra science modules.
I tend to just view a lot of new trek stuff as non-cannon or a seperate-timeline anyways, not all of it is bad, but it just doesn't feel like the Star Trek I grew up liking. Even the kelvin movie verse is redeemed somewhat in at least one of its novels, which has the feel of a TOS episode with mildly different characters.
There were ways that the concepts of both Dis and Picard shows could have been handled better, but they both feel like generic sci-fi. A lot of the space battles shown also seem to diverge from the standard trek way of combat, and feel less navy battle, and more Ariel dogfight.
Anyways we probably shouldn't derail the thread too much, even if I do dislike new-trek...
Literally feels like a TOS episode, there's only a brief combat scene in the beginning, the rest of the book has very little overt fighting. Really the only noticeable character difference is scotty being a drunk and Spock leaning more towards his human side (awkward romance with Uhura)
Basically the plot is Kirk and crew save a distressed colony ship of a peaceful and very intelligent alien race, and the people attacking the colony ship warn kirk about the alien colonists being a danger. They don't believe it, have the alien colonists settle down on a moon in another agreeable alien races solar system. Then after time passes, those aliens call Starfleet and complain about how the alien colonists are so hyper competent and so helpful that they have started to insidiously take over their society though gift-giving advanced tech so good its giving everyone depression from a rapidly developing inferiority complex. In any case Spock single handedly saves the day at the end, and confine the alien colonist on the moon because otherwise they'd essentially take over everything though the power of gift giving.
We could cut the engineering hull entirely, just extend out the back of a Copernicus hull. Cut down the nascelles to two and slide them under the saucer. Add a rollbar for extra science modules.
Nah that's too sensible, why don't we do what the Curry-class does, keep the secondary hull; but flip it around as well as positioning the nacelles somewhat like the Miranda.
That geometry looks a little cursed to me. Elements might work separately but joined together like that leaves me confused. I also really hate situations where you are like 30 feet from your destination but have to travel like 200 feet to get there so the front end grinds my gears.
I do agree that having a secondary hull in that location could work though if it were attached more traditionally. If the secondary hull was smaller and had a different shape I'd be more excited.
That geometry looks a little cursed to me. Elements might work separately but joined together like that leaves me confused. I also really hate situations where you are like 30 feet from your destination but have to travel like 200 feet to get there so the front end grinds my gears.
I do agree that having a secondary hull in that location could work though if it were attached more traditionally. If the secondary hull was smaller and had a different shape I'd be more excited.
Looking at the screencap of the show closer, I think the drawing might actually be slightly misinterpreting the design, its a normal Starfleet ship but the nacelles just aren't placed on the secondary hull.
Looking at the screencap of the show closer, I think the drawing might actually be slightly misinterpreting the design, its a normal Starfleet ship but the nacelles just aren't placed on the secondary hull.
I do like that we can actually see where the phaser emplacements are now. It's a lot nicer being able to visually look where the placements described are.
Nah that's too sensible, why don't we do what the Curry-class does, keep the secondary hull; but flip it around as well as positioning the nacelles somewhat like the Miranda.
Huh, the Curry actually exists. I've only ever seen it in STA3, where it's a light carrier - didn't know if it was actually canon with how odd it looks.
I feel like Picard is probably not the best way to look at canon from DS9-onwards. Especially with the whole "the entirety of a scientific, exploration, policing, military, peacekeeping, and survey fleet that spans a huge chunk of the galaxy all gets together in one place for a single day despite the impossibility on every level of something like that, let alone the utter absence of intelligence put into such an idea" thing.
You know you have to wonder how many colonies that event would have killed by simple virtue of there not being a single starship positioned JUST in the right place to stop an anomaly of the week for the entire territory of the Federation.
I wonder if our higher ups are looking at this and wondering why we didn't just build this saucer for the curiosity with a minimal secondary hull and less gun.
Nah that's too sensible, why don't we do what the Curry-class does, keep the secondary hull; but flip it around as well as positioning the nacelles somewhat like the Miranda.
That thing looks more like a cruise liner than a star fleet vessel. In fact, it'd make a lot of sense as a cruise liner; keeping the main ship components in the upper saucer section and away from the guests in the lower forward section.
Present vote breakdown, no real changes in distribution. Highest non-winning vote (extra antimatter pods, a 2nd slot option) and the lowest winning vote (secondary computer core, also a 2nd slot option) are 57 points apart, or 24-81. Counting the plan votes in the difference increases to 60 points.
Adhoc vote count started by Tank man on Dec 18, 2023 at 12:28 PM, finished with 267 posts and 108 votes.
Deep space probe names were suggested, which I'm alright with. Otherwise in favor of virtue-names (Enterprise, Intrepid, etc.), followed by geography (planets, mountains). Don't love person-names for explorers, better on science ships.
