- Pronouns
- He
[X] Standard Nacelle Supports
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Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
If it was going to be an option later on, then there would be no point in having a separate "aesthetic only" rollbar choice here. This is expressly the vote where it's being decided whether the rollbar has torpedo launchers, and it's four or zero.
StriderInCosmos
Wanderer in the Worldsea
- Location
- Somewhere in... Terminal Dogma? I think?
The rollbars as an aesthetic choice are on the table; should they win (and I know they're in the lead right now, but I don't want to jinx anything), I would imagine some sort of mission pod refit would be possible (extending far beyond extra weapons systems, though those are the current topic of debate).
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
[X] Standard Nacelle Supports
Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This argument makes very little sense. The Fed is never going to be built in large numbers because its expense already outstrips the Excalibur and we haven't even touched the tactical systems yet. If the Federation wants a workhorse to fill the gap they're going to build the Miranda, which is smaller and can be built more quickly. We can assume the Miranda's armament from canon:
-effectively eight phaser banks, and four torpedo launchers (the forward mounts of which in this version are probably either RFLs or the new Type-4s).
Assuming the Type-4, that gives the Miranda an alpha strike (one phaser bank and both launchers) of 90 (Type-2 phasers) or 96 (Type-5s), which is 80 percent of the Excalibur's and still sufficient - unless their hull plating is literally twice as good as ours - of evaporating a D7 in a single volley. The K't'inga is bigger and tougher than the D7, but unless its shields are inexplicably three times stronger that alpha strike will still collapse its shields and do noticeable damage to the hull.
Simply put, this ship at this point is never going to take the role of 'primary line vessel of the era' from the Miranda. This is not to say that there isn't utility in it, but the possibility of supplanting what may have been the single most successful design Starfleet ever produced was lost a while ago.
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60 as a total weapons cost not the marginal for the pod (15-20 on the pod plus another 40-45 on the rest of the ship for coverage and original torpedo mounts).
We don't need additional slots if we aren't intending to fully use the original slots we currently have and then put some more weapons in the pod.
[X] Rollbar Nacelle Supports (Aesthetic) [No Bonus/Malus]
This ship is still only Slightly bigger than the Thunderchild despite being almost a century of size inflation being a thing, and it's about the same same size as the Sagamatha (10kt difference). As such, as long as we don't make things too much bigger, we can easily just call it a heavy cruiser, which is apparently vastly more preferable to the accountants and hand wringers that hate war. If we cover it in Prototype phasers, match the Excalibur's forward torp load (or exceed it by slapping 2 RFL on the front) and give it at least one tube in the rear for defense and coup de grace ala the Thunderchild's thunder run, we'll probably be fine. Will this be a line cruiser? Probably not, no. But if it serves as a proper heavy command cruiser? That is all we really need.
Do i want another dreadnought? Darn straight, sadly the prompt was for a heavy cruiser, not a dreadnought, I mean Explorer. So keep it on the high end of HC and use this experience to make a really good Dreadnought.
This ship is still only Slightly bigger than the Thunderchild despite being almost a century of size inflation being a thing, and it's about the same same size as the Sagamatha (10kt difference). As such, as long as we don't make things too much bigger, we can easily just call it a heavy cruiser, which is apparently vastly more preferable to the accountants and hand wringers that hate war. If we cover it in Prototype phasers, match the Excalibur's forward torp load (or exceed it by slapping 2 RFL on the front) and give it at least one tube in the rear for defense and coup de grace ala the Thunderchild's thunder run, we'll probably be fine. Will this be a line cruiser? Probably not, no. But if it serves as a proper heavy command cruiser? That is all we really need.
Do i want another dreadnought? Darn straight, sadly the prompt was for a heavy cruiser, not a dreadnought, I mean Explorer. So keep it on the high end of HC and use this experience to make a really good Dreadnought.
If you look at the update, the wording is "Mounts", not "Launchers", implying there's mountings for more torpedo launchers, but not that we are necessarily obligated to add four. Also it would be weird if our number of torpedoes and whether we go for a more frontal or balanced loadout would be decided anywhere but the torpedo vote. There's been other cases where we've taken hullform choices that've altered the maximum number of launchers we can fit, and it has never predetermined that there have to be launchers in those slots.
Like, obviously I get that you don't want the rollbar module to win (no worries there lol), and apologise if me saying this is annoying. But generally, it's a pretty safe bet to assume that Sayle is good-natured, reasonable and not going to screw us over that way? If you look back at the Project Darwin vote he even added in an option for a RFL but no aft launchers because voters asked. So I still think it's decidedly unlikely that this option is uniquely a murder-suicide pact that locks us in, given nothing else in the history of the quest has worked that way.
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Iridium Flare
Cyborg Commando
- Location
- AC-130 Gunship circling overhead
[x] Rollbar Nacelle Supports (Aesthetic) [No Bonus/Malus]
[X] Rollbar Nacelle Supports (+2 Fore/Aft Torpedo Mounts)
Fine with either of these. Either we have a cool-looking ship that mostly fulfills the design brief, or we have Thunderchild-A.
Once again reiterating that no matter our choice, we need maximum phaser coverage. We can afford to skimp a little on the torpedo armament. Otherwise it'd be a crap fleet anchor.
[X] Rollbar Nacelle Supports (+2 Fore/Aft Torpedo Mounts)
Fine with either of these. Either we have a cool-looking ship that mostly fulfills the design brief, or we have Thunderchild-A.
Once again reiterating that no matter our choice, we need maximum phaser coverage. We can afford to skimp a little on the torpedo armament. Otherwise it'd be a crap fleet anchor.
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This ship was never going to be cheap, and I don't think it's a question of 'social acceptability' so much as the options are not 'cheap' and 'break the bank.' There's a medium option, which is what I want - still in the heavy cruiser investment range, the top of that range even... but not strapping a whole extra ship's worth of photons onto it.
- Location
- in the trash
[X] Standard Nacelle Supports
[X] Standard Nacelle Supports
I think there's a bit of doomsaying regarding the viability of a non-dreadnought level armament Federation class.
The prompt isn't asking for a large ship that's filled to the brim with the weapon, it asking for a ship with a greater emphasis on durability and the ability to perform non-tactical jobs.
Not only are the Newtons being phased but the survivors of the 12 ship Sagarmatha class Explorers are fully retired and the 18 ship run Saladin class is no long a tactically viable ship and it's science facilities are obsolete for frontier survey duties.
Given the fact that the Miranda is billed as a ship with only basic scientific facilities it is incredibly unlikely that it will be able to do either the Sagarmatha or Saladin's job so at the very least the Federation class with it's far greater room for science facilities will be able to take over the role that those ships filled.
I think there's a bit of doomsaying regarding the viability of a non-dreadnought level armament Federation class.
The prompt isn't asking for a large ship that's filled to the brim with the weapon, it asking for a ship with a greater emphasis on durability and the ability to perform non-tactical jobs.
At 300kt and equipped with our most powerful shields along with well above average maneuverability for it's size we've designed something that will be very durable, with 260kt of that being hull we also have a lot of room to work with when it comes to filling it with facilities that will give it a lot of utility outside of combat.
Not only are the Newtons being phased but the survivors of the 12 ship Sagarmatha class Explorers are fully retired and the 18 ship run Saladin class is no long a tactically viable ship and it's science facilities are obsolete for frontier survey duties.
Given the fact that the Miranda is billed as a ship with only basic scientific facilities it is incredibly unlikely that it will be able to do either the Sagarmatha or Saladin's job so at the very least the Federation class with it's far greater room for science facilities will be able to take over the role that those ships filled.
Given the shear size of the Federation class we could also conceivably have it supplement the Kea's job too as well as take over from the Excalibur's Pathfinding duties given the fact that the Excalibur's science facilities were considered lackluster for that job.
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- Location
- Earth
[X] Standard Nacelle Supports (Aesthetic) [No Bonus/Malus]
[X] Rollbar Nacelle Supports (Aesthetic) [No Bonus/Malus]
[X] Rollbar Nacelle Supports (Aesthetic) [No Bonus/Malus]
I was thinking more a plague of frogs and locusts, personally, really get in that metaphor of financial damage. I was saying that the ship is already so expensive that making it Daddy Procurement's favourite ship is already a longshot, but adding an extra torpedo payload's expense would shift the design from being a contender for mass-producible to much more firmly in the realm of a speciality ship.
- Location
- Australia
@Sayle is there any chance we can flesh out what role the ship is going to for with its modules before we start voting for them section by section? Or even just a list of top five things starfleet would like, in no particular order?
This ships non-combat viability feels like its going to live or die on a coherent plan, and with our huge freedom here it might also lead to chaos.
This ships non-combat viability feels like its going to live or die on a coherent plan, and with our huge freedom here it might also lead to chaos.
I don't know if there's enough options for internals to break them down in categories and exclude some beforehand.