The cost increase would be by adding torpedoes. Skipping hull-mounted torpedoes won't give you more hull space. I'll add these into the main post as points.
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The cost increase would be by adding torpedoes. Skipping hull-mounted torpedoes won't give you more hull space. I'll add these into the main post as points.
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We're going to have a bunch of capable capable and affordable ships of the line. They're called the Miranda class.
Like again, designing a battlecruiser here and then thinking that simply by cutting its alpha strike armament in half, which obviates its reason for existing in the first place, we somehow have an economical line cruiser is like... the most quester-brained thing imaginable.
The size and expense of ship we've designed here is not an economical line cruiser, it's a heavyweight ship-killer. So we need to maximise the value we're getting out of that.
See, that's a fair point. My counterpoint is that I don't think we're building a battleship or a dreadnaught. We're building a tanky, emergency response heavy cruiser. It's definitely a war ship but that's got a different role and function. We want a lot of these ships available for patrol, strategic action, and civilian purposes to be determined.
The Miranda will be a multipurpose light cruiser, this will be a strategic heavy cruiser.
I'd also point out that this ship is designed for strategic purposes and we should lean into that. This is a ship to anchor fleets, has strategic speed rather than hunter-killer speed, and is built for war. That means we need a LOT of them, because a fleet of Federations can converge and effectively destroy the enemy while still covering patrol ground far more effectively than a far smaller number of dreadnaughts.
This ship is a pack hunter, a lion not a crocodile. So let's make sure it has a pack.
As someone who likes big ships, this really seems ike the sort of thing you decide at the beginning of the design process and incorporate in the main saucer and engineering hull
Thats why when this project started at the beginning, I voted for going with the mediumweight version of the saucer, instead of the small one that eventually won. And why I generally lean towards bigger hulls at the beginning, because it gives room for additions without radical hullform alterations
Im just not feeling this lateterm addition is a good idea
Even from a structural perspective
Still one hour before the vote opens
StriderInCosmos
Wanderer in the Worldsea
- Location
- Somewhere in... Terminal Dogma? I think?
As much as I love the vibe of a rollbar, I'm in agreeance that we've hit the price ceiling for the hull design of Project Federation. I could definitely see us using it in the future on something smaller and a little more specialized (or even on something larger that we do truly want to shove more weapons into), but for now, I'll go with the standard support option.
Edit: The rollbar as an aesthetic option, however...
Edit: The rollbar as an aesthetic option, however...
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darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's disappointing, but thanks for getting back to us!
In that case then Standard it is. Too bad, I like the rollbar look.
I've added an option for rollbar as a purely aesthetic choice.
That settles that
Thank you for the clarification
[ ] Standard Nacelle Supports
Please quote or otherwise indicate where you feel the text of the quest contradicts what I've said, rather than vaguely alluding to it.
That's fair enough, but my argument is that regardless of whether or not we intended to build a Big Stick, that's the result of the actual options we have chosen to take here. And going for a battlecruiser must have been in the upper end of the project remit, or those options would not have in fact been presented to us by Starfleet in the first place.
So we need to actually suck it up, accept that we are where we are and make the best of it, rather than a design which is still going to be eye-wateringly expensive no matter what we do, and under-capable for its cost.
Fucking hell, that's twice my comp's an hour fast. Thanks.
Too bad our surviving Callies likely won't get refits for their standard Type-1s to become Type-IVs. It would've been a significant increase in lethality.
- Location
- USA
[] Standard Nacelle Supports
This is meant to be a somewhat produced line ship, not rare.
This is meant to be a somewhat produced line ship, not rare.
Agreed, I'm really aiming for a weapons loadout in the 40 range. Definitely sub 55. Asking for 8 torpedoes (or more than a single RFL) and 8+ phasers to max out coverage and alpha seems insane to me.
Vote doesn't open for another hour.
- Pronouns
- Fae/Faer
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
Moratorium.
Okay, thanks. Good info.
Well that rules out the option I was hoping for (I mean, we still could, but we wouldn't get any benefit out of it). I guess standard nacelle struts are fine, then? Rules out the possibility of going too far overboard later on.
I'm broadly in favor of a generous array of prototype phasers and a relatively modest torpedo armament, probably with the prototype torpedoes for cost-effectiveness. Two fore, one or two aft (probably two). The prototype launchers are CHONKY bois, and will hopefully be able to fire future generations of torpedoes [with or without yard time], whereas the RFL might be more compact but A. if we're not getting module space by totally skipping hull-mounted torpedoes, there's no way we're getting module from smaller hull-mounted torpedoes, and B. it's basically locked in to current/last-gen torpedo tech barring a major refit because the newer ones just won't fit; this would negatively impact the design's useful service life.
Edit: Oh, huh
🤔 Now this is kinda tempting.
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Ok, so it has been clarified that adding the roll bar and putting the torpedoes there does not give us more module space, but neither does it cost anything and so we can vote to do is purely for the look.
[ ] Rollbar Nacelle Supports (Aesthetic) [No Bonus/Malus]
The look has my vote.
[ ] Rollbar Nacelle Supports (Aesthetic) [No Bonus/Malus]
The look has my vote.
...huh. Don't know how I missed/didn't remember that. I stand corrected. Thank you.
And one of these days Starfleet is going to let us mount a single photon ICBM, and strapped under the roll bar is the ideal place for such a godly weapon.
It drains a space antimatter storage tank to fire, but it shoots through planetoids.
It drains a space antimatter storage tank to fire, but it shoots through planetoids.
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[ ] Rollbar Nacelle Supports (Aesthetic)
I do want this ship to show up and win. But I think we can do that with standard torpedo armaments, and we need patrol ships to stabilize our internal security. Chase off the Orion Syndicates and other criminals, make the Fenris Rangers and similar 'vigilante' private defense forces less of a necessity. Plus, this is a ship to stabilize fleet actions and is good for assembling rapidly on strategic objectives. So lets make sure it has friends!
I do want this ship to show up and win. But I think we can do that with standard torpedo armaments, and we need patrol ships to stabilize our internal security. Chase off the Orion Syndicates and other criminals, make the Fenris Rangers and similar 'vigilante' private defense forces less of a necessity. Plus, this is a ship to stabilize fleet actions and is good for assembling rapidly on strategic objectives. So lets make sure it has friends!
I'm ready.Aesthetic rollbar mafia, time to roll out
[ ] Rollbar Nacelle Supports (Aesthetic) [No Bonus/Malus]
Endorfinator
Awkwardly Social
- Location
- California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If we can put an observation deck up there I'd be a very happy man.
- Location
- his hidden lair
No. It can only outmaneuver the K'tinga if the K'tinga has less than 120% maneuverability. This is objective fact. It can't outmaneuver the D7 already as things stand. Given that would involve probably a single extra engine, it's incredibly likely after the Excalibur demonstrating middle weight ships benefit from maneuver the Klingons would learn nothing for the K'tinga.
As for your 'outmaneuvering smaller vessels'.... where the hell is that coming from? We could have 500% maneuverability and we still wouldn't be using single target against bird's of prey, meaning torpedoes are significantly less useful. Between equating this to the Kea as a strawman and this level of misunderstanding and misinformation- I'm just baffled.
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Miranda class
The Miranda-class starship was a type of Federation starship operated by Starfleet during the 23rd and the 24th century. The Miranda-class had entered Starfleet service by the 2260s, which included the launch of the USS Reliant in 2264. (TOS: "Court Martial"; PIC: "The Star Gazer" dedication...
memory-alpha.fandom.com
There is literally zero percent chance that the Federation class, whatever choice we take now, is going to be built in numbers when the Miranda, God of Affordable Versatility, larger than the Excalibur class, and quite capable as a combatant for the 23rd century, is sitting right there.
The only viable role for this ship at the price point we've already baked into the design is as a big stick. The whole "fleet anchor" concept is IMO kind of silly and very RTS game inspired, but I suppose it is stated in the text of the quest so we have to accept it as canon. Either way, if we want a fleet flagship, then it being able to actually kill things is also useful.
Also this ship is really begging for a pair of phaser lances. Run them down each side of the command decks along the flat of the saucer.