Starfleet Design Bureau

[X] Lead Coup against Federation, Install Military Junta
Hmm, I can't support this but I understand it.

[] Demand the budget for our space fleet be tripled, and the budget for orbital defenses doubled. Also let's start a xeno-technology exploitation program, and any hostile alien technology that we come across, we tear apart for technical data.

What about this?
 
Last edited:
Hmm, I can't support this but I understand it.

[X] Demand the budget for our space fleet be tripled, and the budget for orbital defenses doubled. Also let's start a xeno-technology exploitation program, and any hostile alien technology that we come across, we tear apart for technical data.

What about this?
Given the current voting cycle hasn't closed yet, might want to change the letter you're using between the brackets.
 
Not everyone here what's to make every ship we make be able to be a good at combat for various reasons, like if we did it to the Archer it would not be remembered as a great builder and logistic ship because we wouldn't have have had it drag a giant shipping container because that is bad for combat statistics.
 
Listen, either hail me as Emperor, or you're not getting more Excaliburs.

... Or I suppose we could all go on strike, and vote [ ] Fuck off, build more Excaliburs/Darwins when Starfleet asks us to come up with our next new design...
 
Last edited:
The one big benefit to the Pharos is the centralization of the Antimatter that acts as fuel for the War. Meaning we can deny them the ability to drive into our territory on our own dime and instead force them to use theirs. It slowed their advance enormously when combined with the convoy raiding our Excaliburs did. Which in turn forced the Klingons into an all or nothing gamble instead of just conquering us more slowly and getting an assured victory.
Fair enough, had forgot that.
 
Something worth noting here. This war happens when it does SPECIFICALLY because the Klingons are aiming to smack us down before we could surpass them.

It's not entirely Starfleets fault that the Klingons came in before we were ready for them. We could have, and should have, been more prepared, but the realities of politics means that you dont get to fight only when you're ready for it.

The problem is these updates don't read as Starfleet is close to surpassing the Klingons, it reads more as Starfleet failed on all levels except for the individual ships and crews who through heroic effort saved the Federation. I really don't think the Federation would be better prepared if the Klingons attacked ten years later, and in fact it might have been an easier target.
 
*looks at the outright Terran Imperial style posts going on in the thread*

@Sayle
If you wanted your quest to have people actually designing ships for the Federation Starfleet, I think you've failed.
 
*looks at the outright Terran Imperial style posts going on in the thread*

@Sayle
If you wanted your quest to have people actually designing ships for the Federation Starfleet, I think you've failed.
I disagree. What's happened IMO is that the "vibes" of the last update make the Federation feel incompetent, even though they are supposed to be reasonably competent in the story, and that is causing people to over-react and "doompost" to a certain extent.
 
Bluntly, it really feels like a ton of people in this thread don't seem to actually like Star Trek, especially in its earlier incarnations, and view Sayle's attempts to keep the feeling and implications of the early shows within the quest to be a mistake. This will never be the sort of quest you enjoy if that is the case.
 
I genuinely have a hard time seeing the Federation surviving at least without taking a radical new, probably ugly, form. Not in a the Klingons will conquer us sense, but more in a we failed sense. Starfleet and the Federation was born out of the Earth-Romulan where a hostile power bombarded a founding members homeworld. The Federation and Starfleet were meant to prevent that. Now what are the results of this when we were truly tested against a peer power? A Federation founding member homeworld looks to have been bombarded. If I was a member, I'd be wondering what the fuck Starfleet is doing.
 
I genuinely have a hard time seeing the Federation surviving at least without taking a radical new, probably ugly, form. Not in a the Klingons will conquer us sense, but more in a we failed sense. Starfleet and the Federation was born out of the Earth-Romulan where a hostile power bombarded a founding members homeworld. The Federation and Starfleet were meant to prevent that. Now what are the results of this when we were truly tested against a peer power? A Federation founding member homeworld looks to have been bombarded. If I was a member, I'd be wondering what the fuck Starfleet is doing.
I mean, a peer opponent threw almost their entire fleet into the core of the federation, and yet still lost, even if the battle was bloody.
 
Bluntly, it really feels like a ton of people in this thread don't seem to actually like Star Trek, especially in its earlier incarnations, and view Sayle's attempts to keep the feeling and implications of the early shows within the quest to be a mistake. This will never be the sort of quest you enjoy if that is the case.
There's a WORLD of difference between a competent but peaceful underdog against a bloodthirsty empire built on conquest, and what we got. Starfleet was so utterly LAX that they routinely let Colonies get de facto if not de jure enslaved by Pirates. They were so lax that most colonies would never ever see a Starfleet vessel. That's not competency. That's not utopia. That withering corruption at best.

Our Navy was a JOKE, a bad one at that. Outdated, outnumbered, underfunded and lacking personel. It was not the elite. It was a social club playing at being a navy and failing to fulfill even basic responsibilities even before the Klingons kicked its shit in with appalling ease. That does not match up to Star Trek representation of Starfleet at all.

I mean, a peer opponent threw almost their entire fleet into the core of the federation, and yet still lost, even if the battle was bloody.
Yeah, after 50% or more of the fleet was destroyed, a Member homeworld was lost entirely, another core one was bombarded and almost taken and multiple key infrastructural hard points were destroyed solely to deny them to the enemy because the defense was so woefully underfunded it was laughable. This is after seeming DECADES of rampant Colony abuse where if your colony was not a key resource extraction node you were at best ignored by everyone at worst enslaved by pirates in all but name because Starfleet never even bothered to come around to even check on you. And the fleet itself which by all metrics should have been enough needed to get bailed out by two member fleets that by all rights shouldn't have been needed at all, meaning all that funding Starfleet has been getting is in fact wasted and local member navies are not only adequate, they're outright superior.

This is a PR nightmare for the Federation and Starfleet and if we don't at least get some of the member political class calling for going alone and not wasting their resources on us if only for concessions to them from Starfleet I'll be surprised. Because we not only fumbled the ball, but we also never had our hands on it in the first place.
 
Bluntly, it really feels like a ton of people in this thread don't seem to actually like Star Trek, especially in its earlier incarnations, and view Sayle's attempts to keep the feeling and implications of the early shows within the quest to be a mistake. This will never be the sort of quest you enjoy if that is the case.

Yeah I'm getting that vibe from a lot of people here too, Sayles keeping starfleet in character is essentially why starfleet is acting the way it is in this quest. Honestly I think SV might have much more fun playing as the Klingons, Cardassians, or other race whose planet of hats trope falls under militarist instead of starfleet's egalitarian hat.
 
I genuinely have a hard time seeing the Federation surviving at least without taking a radical new, probably ugly, form. Not in a the Klingons will conquer us sense, but more in a we failed sense. Starfleet and the Federation was born out of the Earth-Romulan where a hostile power bombarded a founding members homeworld. The Federation and Starfleet were meant to prevent that. Now what are the results of this when we were truly tested against a peer power? A Federation founding member homeworld looks to have been bombarded. If I was a member, I'd be wondering what the fuck Starfleet is doing.
Logically, the Klingons would have rolled us all separately the second they really got around to it. Emotionally, for the Andorians this is the London Blitz - a defining moment of hardship and tragedy that ultimately comes to be seen as a glorious triumph. The contrarians are busy arguing with each other about all the ways they could have prepared for them better, but they can all agree FUCK THOSE GUYS.

I'm much more concerned that we're failing to protect our colonies from pirates. That kind of neglect is how you get mass secessions, and how you have organizations like the Fenris Rangers being a major vigilante peacekeeping force because the Federation isn't doing it.

At least part of this, I feel, is that the Federation seems to believe in radical self determination. And Federation Space and territory doesn't mean the same thing as the borders of a country. Federation Space is the territory we're willing to protect from peer powers. People inside Federation Space, members or not, have the right to conduct their own affairs. Even start wars with each other. We see this multiple times. And since Piracy isn't keeping a Federation peer power out that kind of peacekeeping is a low priority unless we get a direct request from a member government.
 
Going by cannon, the first 3 Tranches of Constitution Class ships had like 30ish ships total. The Fourth tranche had 111 ships. The fourth tranche came about after the Klingon war. Aka Ship Cost and Yard Space was NOT the constraints to building lots of ships.
The quest Canon has the Canon-Constitution having had a total of 14 built compared to 18 Quest-Excaliburs.

So I think the numbers in all directions are just flat out a lot lower.
 
Last edited:
The quest Canon has the Canon-Constitution having had a total of 14 built compared to 18 Quest-Excaliburs.

So I think the numbers in all directions are just flat out a lot lower.

The larger numbers all come from either beta canon sources, or new Trek, which Sayle has repeatedly said they personally dislike and do not use when considering how Star Trek works and feels.
 
Bluntly, it really feels like a ton of people in this thread don't seem to actually like Star Trek, especially in its earlier incarnations, and view Sayle's attempts to keep the feeling and implications of the early shows within the quest to be a mistake. This will never be the sort of quest you enjoy if that is the case.
There is a big difference between people thinking what a qm is doing is wrong and people seeing as the ones who are designing ships think the people actually in charge of the navy are fundamentally not fit for the role, like a lot of people don't necessarily want to sacrifice engineer and science points for tactical points in ships not mainly built for combat so they can be good combat ships but suck more at their attended job but they don't see how they can when the Navy won't or can't build enough ships we or other designers did design for combat.
 
Part of the problem people are feeling seems to be glaringly obvious consideration being willfully ignored by Ivory Tower politicians that arguably should result in massive unrest and outright pirate fiefdoms leaving the Federation given it's utter inability to contest them across the bloated as fuck Federation. With a core world potentially getting bombarded now in a mirror of the Romulan War that Starfleet was formed to prevent, I feel Starfleet is either going to be given the resources and yard space to actually expand to meet its obligations finally or the member worlds are going to strip resources from Starfleet to follow Andoria's example.
 
The quest Canon has the Canon-Constitution having had a total of 14 built compared to 18 Quest-Excaliburs.

So I think the numbers in all directions are just flat out a lot lower.
ClassExcaliburConstitution
Design TeamUtopia PlanitiaUtopia Planitia
Ratings
CostC+A
Ordered1814
Not only did we build more Excaliburs than the canon Constitution, we built more of them even though the Excalibur is much more expensive than the Constitution was. Looking at the cost disparity here, it's clear our efforts to improve the Federation's economy have made a difference. It's also clear from the price tag that Starfleet is taking things extremely seriously.

A lot of the complaints people are making in this thread are just factually wrong, and it's getting frustrating at this point. There are a lot of reasons we wound up in this war, and it's not just because the rest of Starfleet is asleep at the wheel.
 
At the end of the day, I think this is a wake-up call to the Admiralty Board that what is nominally our territory needs defense, and a mobile defense, at that. With pirating likely to become much more troublesome than it's historically been as we rebuild from the Four Year War, it wouldn't be unwise to perhaps have a dedicated patrol/response ship class to keep things from getting too out of control. Something largely inexpensive and geared towards mass production, a solid amount of weaponry, and low to mid-level cargo hauling as a nice aside for those parts of the quadrant that need supplies to get there with an assured safety.

As well, I think it's time for the Federation to look at expanding our shipbuilding capabilities if we want to keep all those territories that align with us safe. Our fleet pre-war was largely quite venerable, with a core of cutting-edge ships as we went into the war, but well smaller than it perhaps should have been with the remarkable territorial gains that our diplomatic, economic, and industrial focus provided us. If we want to get back to our pre-war borders (however long that may take), we're likely to need to project an assurance that those colonies that fell under Klingon control won't have to worry about such a thing again.

It's a great thing that we have a capable ship in the Excalibur-class, but though we're pointed in the right direction, I still think we've got a ways to go.
 
Back
Top