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Classic Star Trek absolutely runs on age of sail anachronism.
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I'm all for refitting and expanding our Stingray Fleet, but we do need to keep in mind Logistical Concerns, and the fact that Starfleet doesn't have the advanced awareness we do.
We got away with the Stingray, I suspect, because they saw that we somewhat understood what Starfleet needed over what it likely wanted.
We have to play with what Starfleet wants. We might get some leeway at times, but we gotta play with what we got. Besides, we have to Rely on our NXs to make us enough friends in any case.
StriderInCosmos
Wanderer in the Worldsea
- Location
- Somewhere in... Terminal Dogma? I think?
Yeah, until transporters are more reliable and matter replicators are a thing that exists, we are going to have to pay heed to the logistical tail of things for the moment. And as NavySeel says, we're still a little ways off from engaging with the Romulans, so there's time to expand the fleet somewhat to satisfaction.
Looking past the conflict, however, I do like MS-21H's idea of a hardy, fast delta-hulled ship to do scientific and exploratory pathfinding, something that can get the basics of a system or anomaly and log it for later, more in-depth study by NXs or other scientific vessels.
Edit: and do it somewhat cost-effectively, as well.
Looking past the conflict, however, I do like MS-21H's idea of a hardy, fast delta-hulled ship to do scientific and exploratory pathfinding, something that can get the basics of a system or anomaly and log it for later, more in-depth study by NXs or other scientific vessels.
Edit: and do it somewhat cost-effectively, as well.
Empress_Boog
Grand Empress
I would say do refits on the Stingrays, and maybe make a couple more if we have industry for it. As for the Zheng He, upgrading them to warp 5 seems to be the correct choice for now, we can make a science variant of them after the war with the Romulans ends.
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- Location
- Lake Wobegon
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We know something of Starfleet doctrine and kit for second and further contact. It involves lighter, slower, and less well-equipped, but more numerous, ships.
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I'd say we already have a pathfinder ship in the NX. It's basically perfect for the role. Large, heavily armed, can maintain itself well, and can go for a while without resupply. Can generally handle whatever it might come across.
What is more important is to have a cost effective dedicated science ship so they can stay in a single system for a long time doing in-depth studies and surveys while the NX can quickly go from system to system to get the general picture of what's there and whether it's safe or not.
I'd rather not send cheaper and less equipped ships out as pathfinders as that's how you lose ships to unknowns.
This was kinda what I was thinking.
We develop and put out a simple frame(Warp Delta is as simple as it gets), shove science and ship stuff on board and let Starfleet have fun.
I just hope we don't get an 'Oberth in the 24th Century' effect with it.
StriderInCosmos
Wanderer in the Worldsea
- Location
- Somewhere in... Terminal Dogma? I think?
Fair enough. A delta-shaped vessel (or at least primary hull) sounds like a somewhat refreshing break from the circles and ovals that are currently the leading axiom of design. Perhaps in a later patrol/escort vessel of some sort, or as the science vessel that MH-21 proposed above me.
Half and 2/3s saucers for local defense craft(with small secondary hulls eventually to do larger patrol routes), triangular/delta for science, and the full chonk saucers with secondary hull for cruisers and explorers sounds fun.
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I don't see why the Zhang-he is considered as a science ship-most of it's cargo bays aren't even given functional life-support for most of the trip. Even with a warp 4.9 engine, impulse thruster, and other upgrades, it feels like it will be maybe 1 science lab? That's a functional science ship, but only barely.
We're talking about taking the basic hull of the Zheng-He class and refitting/redesigning it as a science ship. Same outer hull mostly but totally redone interior.
- Location
- Earth
Alternatively, I am a huge fan of the circles and ovals of Starfleet ship design. It's a very distinct and uniquely of Federation and Star Trek flavor. Arrowheads and flying bricks are more typical of realism and generic sci-fi in general.
I like how saucers, secondary hulls, and nacelles are so distinctive of Star Trek that you can show such a design to random people off the street and they'll vaguely go "Oh! Star Trek, right?" That's less evident with arrowheads or other departures from the Starfleet style.
We don't have to make the exact same ships from canon, but I don't want to depart from the style just to be different. I want to make new and unique ships but keep the style.
I like how saucers, secondary hulls, and nacelles are so distinctive of Star Trek that you can show such a design to random people off the street and they'll vaguely go "Oh! Star Trek, right?" That's less evident with arrowheads or other departures from the Starfleet style.
We don't have to make the exact same ships from canon, but I don't want to depart from the style just to be different. I want to make new and unique ships but keep the style.
Unless you intend to fight the war in Sol you need to ship torpedos, food, personnel, other material to front line ships and garrisons. This requires logistics, as any student of the Battle of the Atlantic could tell you.
I'm thinking a more Vulcan look mainly for science ship if we're going triangular, I wonder if we can develop their style of warp drive independently...
StriderInCosmos
Wanderer in the Worldsea
- Location
- Somewhere in... Terminal Dogma? I think?
Indeed, but even Starfleet departs from its usual style every once in a while, with classes like the Oberth mentioned above, and especially with the post-Borg/pre-Dominion War vessels like the Steamrunner, Akira, and Defiant. Being a little contrarian as long as we stick to general design principles (a primary hull, secondary hull, and nacelles) will make any vessels we design that way both maintain that Starfleet flair and stand out from other canon designs. That's the happy medium I'd like to exist in, at least.
The date on this current update is only 2151. I suspect subsequent updates will still give us the choice to decide on refits to the Stingray class as we come up to war, as well as decisions for orders.
Sticking torpedo launchers and newer warp coils into the Zheng He class might be worth it too. That's eight extra hulls who can add as fleet tenders and auxiliary cruisers for task groups of Stingrays, led by an NX-Class.
Sticking torpedo launchers and newer warp coils into the Zheng He class might be worth it too. That's eight extra hulls who can add as fleet tenders and auxiliary cruisers for task groups of Stingrays, led by an NX-Class.
Cannocily star fleet had the nx class warp delta, deadalus and another class of ships that I forget the name of (this is main cannon their are more in beta cannon) during the Romulan war
LunaMoth
Wings of Kynareth is my comfort song...
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I would like to add that even some of the alien races in star trek vaguely follow the saucer, secondary hull, nacelle design.
First is a Cardassian ship, second is a ship that appears in an episode of ENT (and looks like a Bionicle piece), third is a bunch of Bajoran ships; and fourth is the Ferengi D'kora class which appears in TNG.
Not that we should deviate too hard from standard Starfleet designs, but even star fleet deviates slightly from its standard designs occasionally.
First is the Antares type seen in TOS and TAS, second is the holloship from one of the movies (hey look federation borg cube), third is a background ship seen briefly in DS9; fourth is the Steamboat class which I think is in DS9 as well.
I will take any excuse to look though wikis.
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- U.S.A.
No one else is considering a Conestoga shaped design? It's a decent design.
Edit: It's basically a secondary Hull that decided to ditch its saucer and go out on it's own.
Edit 2: Plus, it was developed into the Discovery class in that one game.
Edit: It's basically a secondary Hull that decided to ditch its saucer and go out on it's own.
Edit 2: Plus, it was developed into the Discovery class in that one game.
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I agree, something about that usual style gets me.
Even the Stingray design looked GREAT to me.
But some differentiation wouldn't be bad, especially at this early stage of experimentation.
How'd this
Defense-craft: partial saucer primary hulls
Explorer ships: full saucer primay hulls
Support vessels: orb/bubble primary hulls
Fast courier/local defense fleet: delta shaped primary hull
Defense-craft: partial saucer primary hulls
Explorer ships: full saucer primay hulls
Support vessels: orb/bubble primary hulls
Fast courier/local defense fleet: delta shaped primary hull
That alone is a negative in my book.
Yeah, and even if you do that, I think it's gonna be at best acceptable, at worst, disappointing? It's the smallest ship we have, probably has the worst sensors, and refitting the existing ships takes supply ships off the lines. New builds might be slightly better, but why not just build a small single-science lab ship to purpose? Why not start from say, the Stingray, refit it with impulse engines, and use the freed up space for a science payload? There are other options we should consider, with significant benefits.
Just because the Zhang He looks like the Deadalus class, doesn't mean we should expect it to be our workhorse.
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Different Discovery. Class, not the individual ship. It's basically an upgraded Conestoga style ship.
IF we can fit the labs in there without compromising combat capability, I'd be all for it.
We just have to be careful, the Stingray is our main Combat Vessel right now.