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Starfleet Design Bureau

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KarmaA said:
Which is still on par with all the other platforms made to date.
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Is it?
I dont think that in peacetime Starfleet ships spend all that much time in space without regular port visits.

Something like this, otoh, is going to be either doing a lot of cargo hauling, which means that it wont be at rest for very long, or it will be doing longterm construction/reconstruction in pretty barebones environments.
I dont think the service conditions are comparable.
NSMS said:
As someone who's for rec areas on the general principle of 'they're up there for a long time, they're going to need some damn good R&R to avoid going stir crazy', I'm actually curious about what the specific numbers and study results are.
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US SSBNs spend an average of 77 days at sea at a time, and then 35 days in port.
And thats with alternate Blue and Gold crews that alternate taking the ships out each time, giving the other crew time and opportunity for R & R.

Upwards of 3 months in a not!military ship seems like the sort of thing where you begin to pay especial attention to crew morale and conditions.
 
Ebiris said:
[ ] 1: Antimatter Storage (+70ly Operating Range)
[ ] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+2 Science, Advanced Computing)
[ ] 3: Recreational Spaces (Crew Comfort)

I was initially going to go with the science lab, but I've been convinced on the value of having extra antimatter to haul around for topping up other ships and colonies even if not necessarily ranging further afield. Second slot's a tossup but I figure the computer is just more generally useful. And for the third we've got to look after our crews and give them some comfort. We're a long way from Galaxy class luxury cruise liners, but we should at least work towards that goal!
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That and having built the ORB(!) we must make the crews love serving on it.
 
Okay this is tough! Nice meaty choices.

This is a back-lines ship. We shouldn't extend beyond our resupply starbases and colonies anyway. On that note, we want Science Labs over Antimatter Storage.

A Secondary Computer Core seems obvious - do all the design work, supplement the computing at the colony while we're there, coordinate the shuttles, generally good to have.

And the tough one - recreation vs Geophysics. On the one hand, Geophysics makes us a respectable second pass science ship - show up and learn about places we already are. Again, our presence in space should have depth! Do the research to build our mines. On the other hand, that will be a LONG time in space and people were suggesting we could also be mobile shoreleave for other ships in motion. It's a tough call! But I'm going to go for Recreation Spaces.

[ ] 1: Science Labs (+4 Science)

[ ] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+2 Science, Advanced Computing)

[ ] 3: Recreational Spaces (Crew Comfort)
 
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TehChron said:
Its important for fleet morale that the assignment not be seen as a punishment, especially since this is such an unglamorous role for Captains and officer-track ship crew
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Yeah. This is never going to be a luxury ship like a Galaxy class, but we do want the crews serving on them to feel good about it.
 
Extra antimatter also means unlike most of our Warp 7 ships we're not too scared of using our afterburners, in this era at least.

We still have to pay for the warp coil maintenance of course, but while we're mission tasking with other warp 7 ships or for missions designed around the warp 7 paragram we can still have gas to spare if we do have to push it.
 
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TehChron said:
Logistical ships have very strict timetables they need to adhere to.
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Agreed but in the utopian future where they don't have money it would seem that captains have some discretion on schedules generally.

This ship can move cargo fast but it also can do a ton of engineering. They moved starfleet cargo before this ship came along and now have even more platforms and capabilities to move cargo. Why would we assume they're going to instantly move to something that's going to cause mental health issues and burnout?
 
NSMS said:
As someone who's for rec areas on the general principle of 'they're up there for a long time, they're going to need some damn good R&R to avoid going stir crazy', I'm actually curious about what the specific numbers and study results are.
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Here you go:

Article:
Deployment to military operations negatively affects the mental health functioning of deployed military personnel. For assessments taken more than 24 months since exposure, we consistently found adverse effects of deployment on all mental health domains (PTSD, depression, substance abuse/dependence, and common mental disorders), particularly on PTSD. For assessments taken less than 24 months (or a variable number of months since exposure) the evidence was less consistent and in many instances inconclusive.


There's other studies but they're more analysis.
 
Antimatter Storage gives the ship better range, and there's some cases where it can share that antimatter with other ships, but Science Labs makes the ship far more capable in general. There are so many situations in the setting where you need to Science something, (things that a more long-ranged ship would run into far more often,) that only 2 Science for a ship we want to rely on for so much just doesn't cut it. And while a score of 6 Science isn't great, it's good enough to give the ship multi-role proficiency. We've been punished for being too specialized before; let's make a ship that can do Engineering even in the face of dangerous space anomalies, exotic virulent lifeforms, mysterious unknown elements, and other Science dangers. (As a bonus, Science helps with conventional medical treatment, too.)
 
I strongly suspect the computer core will synergize with our fabrication, so that's locked in for me.

I'm leaning antimatter for range, and for refueling other ships if in a fleet.

I'm also leaning rec spaces. Both for long flights and fleet support, but also because a ship full of bored engineers is a hazard in its own right.

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Nyvis said:
Time to go back to the tried and true Heavy Exploration Cruiser?
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Quote selected as representative of a lot of what I'm seeing.

So I'm seeing a lot of discussion about how we're going to need a ship that's fast and tough, but also cheap enough to build many to be in multiple places, but also with good (science & med?) capacity to handle peacetime work.

I'm also seeing (/remembering) talk about how we're approaching when the Constitution class was made in canon, but how we'd inevitably make it much bigger and Kelvinier than the original.

But ya know, a pocket explorer sounds right about right, right now.

So what if we just... designed Connies? Ones closer the OTL size and capability? Made them not as big as possible, but otherwise top-quality explorers?

Because that seems to be exactly what we're going to need.
 
On the other hand, if you're going to overspecialize in anything, overspecializing in a better factory ship is the kind of thing that literally everyone else wants more of.
 
KarmaA said:
Agreed but in the utopian future where they don't have money it would seem that captains have some discretion on schedules generally.
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That will depend heavily on what's being shipped to where. Shipping luxury goods to a well established colony, for example, there is likely to be a lot of slack in schedule. Shipping food, fabrication materials, and medical supplies to a just-established colony of 300, on the other hand? A job like that, running late could easily have a measurable cost in lives, and depending upon ship availability, distances involved, etc, there may not be any other ships who can replace you.
 
Derpmind said:
Antimatter Storage gives the ship better range, and there's some cases where it can share that antimatter with other ships, but Science Labs makes the ship far more capable in general. There are so many situations in the setting where you need to Science something, (things that a more long-ranged ship would run into far more often,) that only 2 Science for a ship we want to rely on for so much just doesn't cut it. And while a score of 6 Science isn't great, it's good enough to give the ship multi-role proficiency. We've been punished for being too specialized before; let's make a ship that can do Engineering even in the face of dangerous space anomalies, exotic virulent lifeforms, mysterious unknown elements, and other Science dangers. (As a bonus, Science helps with conventional medical treatment, too.)
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Thats a good point actually. Whats the current tally on our scores? If only because that may decide dropping the extra antimatter in favour of vasty increasing our science as a multi-role workhorse.
 
Sayle said:
It's a flying shuttle hub with a little bit of cargo, a single science lab Just In Case, and nothing else. Very much a support ship that can deal with minor emergencies and play a basic support role. About the only extra expense on the Newton is the second shuttlebay/cargo section and the extra engines so its weapons are viable. It's all-in on forward weapons and has nothing covering the aft quarter.

It's a light cruiser with some proactive engineering capabilities, essentially.
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The Newton has a Science lab. It's going to be a little weird if the Newton ends up having a higher Science score.
BDelver said:
Thats a good point actually. Whats the current tally on our scores? If only because that may decide dropping the extra antimatter in favour of vasty increasing our science as a multi-role workhorse.
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We haven't taken any options that give +Science.
 
NSMS said:
Shipping food, fabrication materials, and medical supplies to a just-established colony of 300, on the other hand? A job like that, running late could easily have a measurable cost in lives, and depending upon ship availability, distances involved, etc, there may not be any other ships who can replace you.
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Holy shit, we might have butterflied Kodos the Executioner.
 
NSMS said:
That will depend heavily on what's being shipped to where. Shipping luxury goods to a well established colony, for example, there is likely to be a lot of slack in schedule. Shipping food, fabrication materials, and medical supplies to a just-established colony of 300, on the other hand? A job like that, running late could easily have a measurable cost in lives, and depending upon ship availability, distances involved, etc, there may not be any other ships who can replace you.
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Agreed, we now have new capabilities and sometimes there'll be crunch. Now our crew suffers a little where before an entire colony would get wiped out. On the other hand though do we assume none all of the captains, mental therapists, schedulers, crewmen, or ships designfolk of the future decide to pick up the idiot ball together? Starfleet and civilian enterprises have been ferrying people and goods around for a long time.

Using the aux slot for rec is a great choice. I'm arguing that it isn't an essential choice. That if we don't take geology in the middle taking labs in the last slot isn't being excessively cruel to the crew.
 
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The thing though is that after the Pharos was finished, We got told that heavier vessels should be more generally competent and leaving out sci labs doesn't sound generally competent.
 
So the options are essentially between giving the ship a longer range or making it good at science too.

Neither particularly thrills me. It's an engineer ship, longer range is best provided by building a series of outposts to wherever it needs to go.

On the other hand, it's an engineering ship, we want it doing engineering things.

I guess a recreational space might make it a pocket diplomat ship. Recreational areas for the crew will likely be just as useful for distracting and delighting most people the Federation can talk to as it is for the crew.
 
KarmaA said:
On the other hand though do we assume none of the captains, mental therapists, schedulers, crewmen, or ships designfolk of the future decide to pick up the idiot ball together? Starfleet and civilian enterprises have been ferrying people and goods around for a long time.
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Civilian cargo ships likely have facilities comparable to those we're going to put in (or better, going off of the modern cargo ships I have seen) or are too short ranged for it to be a concern.

The facilities required for a crew that spends the majority of its time in the middle of nowhere, or going to it, and doing tedious long term work there, are quite different from a ship that is regularly going to starbases or can have the Captain out the crew down on a random planet for R&R as they see fit.
 
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[X] 1: Antimatter Storage (+70ly Operating Range)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+2 Science, Advanced Computing)
[X] 3: Recreational Spaces (Crew Comfort)
 
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