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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:

I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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[X] Plan: Knock Knock Monoliths and Learning. (Turn 59)

[X] Whitebeard's Letter: [Less than 100 words, 3 main points about what you focus on when sharing your knowledge about Elven politics with Snorri Whitebeard.] Through our elvish contacts, we know that some elves of Tor Vernath are asking for Bel'Shannar's assistance and thus putting Malekith and his allies into active time pressure. The Mages Malekith visited were suppressed and pushed out of influence by Bel'Shannar since he could not ally with them and do not have much incentive to care about magical backlash to the people living here - only that their patron succeeds and spites Bel'Shannar and that the Waystone network in the Far North is not totally destroyed. Gimli, Son of Gloin, is friends with Prince Laequalys of Tor Vernath and the elf and his own mages may have a useful additional perspective.

[X] [Social:] Dolgi Skarrisson and Kemma Brunasdottir's Nauvsdeg.
[X] [Social:] Izgrom, putting another rock by Karstah's door.
 
This is 110 words long, we can't use this vote because it has to be less than 100 words, remember?
Ah thanks. I didn't bother to check cause it seemed close enough when I eyeballed it.

[X] Plan: Knock Knock Monoliths and Learning. (Turn 59)
-[X] Snorri & Karstah
--[X] [Difficult] Build Brynbar pt 2 (2 Karstah) This is for her own use.
--[X] Khazagar (2 Karstah) Generates 3 Khazagar actions, any left over remain to be used later.
---[X] Change Curriculum: Switch Prosthetics with Dum-Denial. 1 Khaz.
---[X] Learning Rune of Spellburning. 2 Khaz + T2 White Lion's Heart.
--[X] [Simple] Once more with Smelting #2 (1 Snorri + 3 KKR) Wear BA/Skarren
--[X] [Simple] The Brotherhood Calls (1 Snorri + 3 KKR)
--[X] [Difficult] Monolith Mastery pt 1 (1 Snorri)
--[X] [Difficult] Examine KKR (1 Snorri)
--[X] [Difficult] Skaudardrengi pt 2 (1 Snorri + 2 KKR) This does not finish the Dragon. This is prep for turn 60 and is meant to develop the Rune we chose by Going All Out.
--[X] The Road to Anoqeyån Pt. 2 (1 Snorri)
-[X] Retainers & Orders
--[X] Expedition, Grom [1 Retainer + Industry of the North]
--[X] Training Regime Pt. 2 [3 Retainer]
--[X] Order: T4 Elder Storm Wyrm's Gas Sac
--[X] Royal Authority Order: T4 Elder Storm Wyrm Wing Tendons [-15 Far North Favor]
--[X] Royal Authority Order: T4 Great Eagle Feather [-15 Karak Ungor Favor]
--[X] Royal Authority Order: T4 Elder Storm Wyrm's Heart [-15 Far North Favor]


[X] Whitebeard's Letter: Through elvish contacts, we know that some elves of Tor Vernath are asking for Bel'Shannar's assistance, putting Malekith and his allies under time pressure. The Mages Malekith visited were suppressed by Bel'Shannar, since he could not ally with them and do not have much incentive to care about magical backlash to the people living here - only that their patron succeeds and spites Bel'Shannar and that the Waystone network in the Far North is not totally destroyed. Prince Gimli is friends with Prince Laequalys of Tor Vernath and the elf and his own mages may have a useful additional perspective.

Apologies tagging everyone like this, had to change the Whitebeard letter very slightly to fit in the word count and ended up removing a few words. @ConfusedCanuck @Gabriel_TFA @The Void King @MrRageQuit @Hazardine @Ego_Discite @Some_guy_161 @ArcanaVitae.

[X] [Social:] Dolgi Skarrisson and Kemma Brunasdottir's Nauvsdeg.
[X] [Social:] Izgrom, putting another rock by Karstah's door.

[X] [Letters:] Knowledge about the other Thungni-Chosen [Limited]


We aren't required to fit everything into the combo concept. As is your entire dragon with all the comboing going exactly as planned would probably turn into a more effective combatant if the claw was replaced with one that had a simple 3×Fire engraved to add reliable AoE and everyone's go-to element for purging the esoteric.

Though that new(?) Weapon-MValaya on the sheet looks pretty interesting. Claws aren't strictly axes, but fairly close if you squint, and some 'The wielders's grasp cares not for magic or trickery'-combo seems reachable and close to the overall big savage dragon theme. It's not yet known to Snorri, but seems like something that could pop up in any random trade he encounters.
So one of the design goals I had for this was it to have a five piece equipment Set, and a six piece Set between its Body and Equipment as a stretch goal. No one is really going to get me to budge on this design goal or the others, since they are fundamental to the concept of the piece.

(The other two were It's A Kaiju, and Dragon shaped with the ability to fly)

The Armor, which is using very similar runes to Our Ashstorm is our AoE and chaff clear. If Weapon Valaya goes on Axes, it won't work for the Dragon - Runic Forms aren't flexible enough for it to also be used on claws if it specifies a weapon type. And waiting for a random trade is unappealing.

Now we might be able to go somewhere with Currents Spellburning and Spellbreaking, or some other Master Rune like the Albion Sword rune + those 2. That *might* work and its an option I'm keeping open.
 
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I think we should mention the adamant gronti dragon to Snorri Whitebeard as another option.

Malkeith isn't proposing the ritual for the sake of it, he's proposing it as an alternative to the Phoenix King getting involved.

If there's another option on the table that doesn't cost him anything and accomplishes that, I think he'll go for it.

On the dragon design:

If we really want to stick to a storm dragon theme for the dragon gronti, even though it's arguably anti-thematic with the Anvil of the Earth where it'll be forged, we should remember that Storm Dragons can be/are spell casters with and inherent affinity to the Lore of Heavens.

They're not just about elemental lightning and wind, but also about shock and surprise, striking like lightning from a clear sky - and I think this is became they're themselves prophets, guided by their predictions to strike in a way that averts the very cause for their attacks, making them unpredictable from the outside.

This means that we may want to look at the wider themes of Azyr.

Tl;dr: we should consider progress the Happening of Things and trying to develop the canon Rune of Fate and other variants.

A weapon rune version of that could be very effective, for instance.
 
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[X] Plan: Knock Knock Monoliths and Learning. (Turn 59)
-[X] Snorri & Karstah
--[X] [Difficult] Build Brynbar pt 2 (2 Karstah) This is for her own use.
--[X] Khazagar (2 Karstah) Generates 3 Khazagar actions, any left over remain to be used later.
---[X] Change Curriculum: Switch Prosthetics with Dum-Denial. 1 Khaz.
---[X] Learning Rune of Spellburning. 2 Khaz + T2 White Lion's Heart.
--[X] [Simple] Once more with Smelting #2 (1 Snorri + 3 KKR) Wear BA/Skarren
--[X] [Simple] The Brotherhood Calls (1 Snorri + 3 KKR)
--[X] [Difficult] Monolith Mastery pt 1 (1 Snorri)
--[X] [Difficult] Examine KKR (1 Snorri)
--[X] [Difficult] Skaudardrengi pt 2 (1 Snorri + 2 KKR) This does not finish the Dragon. This is prep for turn 60 and is meant to develop the Rune we chose by Going All Out.
--[X] The Road to Anoqeyån Pt. 2 (1 Snorri)
-[X] Retainers & Orders
--[X] Expedition, Grom [1 Retainer + Industry of the North]
--[X] Training Regime Pt. 2 [3 Retainer]
--[X] Order: T4 Elder Storm Wyrm's Gas Sac
--[X] Royal Authority Order: T4 Elder Storm Wyrm Wing Tendons [-15 Far North Favor]
--[X] Royal Authority Order: T4 Great Eagle Feather [-15 Karak Ungor Favor]
--[X] Royal Authority Order: T4 Elder Storm Wyrm's Heart [-15 Far North Favor]


[X] Whitebeard's Letter: Through elvish contacts, we know that some elves of Tor Vernath are asking for Bel'Shannar's assistance, putting Malekith and his allies under time pressure. The Mages Malekith visited were suppressed by Bel'Shannar, since he could not ally with them and do not have much incentive to care about magical backlash to the people living here - only that their patron succeeds and spites Bel'Shannar and that the Waystone network in the Far North is not totally destroyed. Prince Gimli is friends with Prince Laequalys of Tor Vernath and the elf and his own mages may have a useful additional perspective.

[X] [Social:] Dolgi Skarrisson and Kemma Brunasdottir's Nauvsdeg.
[X] [Social:] Izgrom, putting another rock by Karstah's door.

[X] [Letters:] Knowledge about the other Thungni-Chosen [Limited]
 
I think we should mention the adamant gronti dragon to Snorri Whitebeard as another option.

Malkeith isn't proposing the ritual for the sake of it, he's proposing it as an alternative to the Phoenix King getting involved.

If there's another option on the table that doesn't cost him anything and accomplishes that, I think he'll go for it.

On the dragon design:

If we really want to stick to a storm dragon theme for the dragon gronti, even though it's arguably anti-thematic with the Anvil of the Earth where it'll be forged, we should remember that Storm Dragons can be/are spell casters with and inherent affinity to the Lore of Heavens.

They're not just about elemental lightning and wind, but also about shock and surprise, striking like lightning from a clear sky - and I think this is became they're themselves prophets, guided by their predictions to strike in a way that averts the very cause for their attacks, making them unpredictable from the outside.

This means that we may want to look at the wider themes of Azyr.

Tl;dr: we should consider progress the Happening of Things and trying to develop the canon Rune of Fate and other variants.

A weapon rune version of that could be very effective, for instance.
Well if you've missed it, I'm taking inspiration from the elemental lightning and fury part of a Storm Dragon. People keep complaining about how much its talked about and how much time its taking - I'm not adding more time if I can help it by trying to wiggle the Rune of Fate onto it, a rune it may not even benefit from because it can't sleep. And you need to be able to sleep to use Fate based on tabletop since it gives you prophetic dreams.

As for the anti-theme of the anvil of the Earth A) All Runes seem to use a mix of the Eight, B) Only the body will experience the full fury of the Anvil, and C) Quite frankly I don't think its a relevant concern because if it happens that the body ends up with some ash aura to it that fits in with Snorri's kit and is still straightforward to add into a Storm Dragon inspired Set focused on Elemental wind and lightning. That's a bonus not a bug.
 
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[X] Plan: Knock Knock Monoliths and Learning. (Turn 59)
-[X] Snorri & Karstah
--[X] [Difficult] Build Brynbar pt 2 (2 Karstah) This is for her own use.
--[X] Khazagar (2 Karstah) Generates 3 Khazagar actions, any left over remain to be used later.
---[X] Change Curriculum: Switch Prosthetics with Dum-Denial. 1 Khaz.
---[X] Learning Rune of Spellburning. 2 Khaz + T2 White Lion's Heart.
--[X] [Simple] Once more with Smelting #2 (1 Snorri + 3 KKR) Wear BA/Skarren
--[X] [Simple] The Brotherhood Calls (1 Snorri + 3 KKR)
--[X] [Difficult] Monolith Mastery pt 1 (1 Snorri)
--[X] [Difficult] Examine KKR (1 Snorri)
--[X] [Difficult] Skaudardrengi pt 2 (1 Snorri + 2 KKR) This does not finish the Dragon. This is prep for turn 60 and is meant to develop the Rune we chose by Going All Out.
--[X] The Road to Anoqeyån Pt. 2 (1 Snorri)
-[X] Retainers & Orders
--[X] Expedition, Grom [1 Retainer + Industry of the North]
--[X] Training Regime Pt. 2 [3 Retainer]
--[X] Order: T4 Elder Storm Wyrm's Gas Sac
--[X] Royal Authority Order: T4 Elder Storm Wyrm Wing Tendons [-15 Far North Favor]
--[X] Royal Authority Order: T4 Great Eagle Feather [-15 Karak Ungor Favor]
--[X] Royal Authority Order: T4 Elder Storm Wyrm's Heart [-15 Far North Favor]
There is a question about what we should do with Monolith Mastery; should we put 2 AP into it or 1?

On the one hand, we only need a single point to finish this next part. On the other, adding another point will give an additional free point of progress to Part 2, which we have to do anyway.

Overall, I say it'd be a shame for us to leave the efficiency from Master of the Odd on the table. Here's a plan that puts another AP into it (taking away from KKR, which we will do Turn 61).

[X] Plan: Knock Knock Monoliths and Learning (Now With Greater Efficiency)
-[X] Snorri & Karstah
--[X] [Difficult] Build Brynbar pt 2 (2 Karstah) This is for her own use.
--[X] Khazagar (2 Karstah) Generates 3 Khazagar actions, any left over remain to be used later.
---[X] Change Curriculum: Switch Prosthetics with Dum-Denial. 1 Khaz.
---[X] Learning Rune of Spellburning. 2 Khaz + T2 White Lion's Heart.
--[X] [Simple] Once more with Smelting #2 (1 Snorri + 3 KKR) Wear BA/Skarren
--[X] [Simple] The Brotherhood Calls (1 Snorri + 3 KKR)
--[X] [Difficult] Monolith Mastery pt 1 (2 Snorri)
--[X] [Difficult] Skaudardrengi pt 2 (1 Snorri + 2 KKR) This does not finish the Dragon. This is prep for turn 60 and is meant to develop the Rune we chose by Going All Out.
--[X] The Road to Anoqeyån Pt. 2 (1 Snorri)
-[X] Retainers & Orders
--[X] Expedition, Grom [1 Retainer + Industry of the North]
--[X] Training Regime Pt. 2 [3 Retainer]
--[X] Order: T4 Elder Storm Wyrm's Gas Sac
--[X] Royal Authority Order: T4 Elder Storm Wyrm Wing Tendons [-15 Far North Favor]
--[X] Royal Authority Order: T4 Great Eagle Feather [-15 Karak Ungor Favor]
--[X] Royal Authority Order: T4 Elder Storm Wyrm's Heart [-15 Far North Favor]
 
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Overall, I say it'd be a shame for us to leave the efficiency from Master of the Odd on the table. Here's a plan that puts another AP into it (taking away from KKR, which we will do next turn).
Why would you take away the chance to put all of our AP into a piece we are trying to make a Mythic? We've never had a chance to actually full commit to a piece like this for a variety of reasons and the alignment of events mean this is our chance.

Why pass that up and shaft the efficiency of what's going into SKaud, losing 3 actions into its final total? That doesn't make sense if you are concerned about efficiency. You're losing 3 to gain 2.
 
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Why would you take away the chance to put all of our AP into a piece we are trying to make a Mythic? We've never had a chance to actually full commit to a piece like this for a variety of reasons and the alignment of events mean this is our chance.

Why pass that up and shaft the efficiency of what's going into SKaud, losing 3 actions into its final total? That doesn't make sense if you are concerned about efficiency. You're losing 3 to gain 1.
Fair enough. We should do KKR Turn 61. Unless I am mistaken, there is no reason we need to do it earlier than that.
 
Fair enough. We should do KKR Turn 61. Unless I am mistaken, there is no reason we need to do it earlier than that.
Bonus semirandom progress to relevant research fields in the turn (potentially including Monoliths), trait exp which might improve Master of the Odd to the next level, or might give us our new Power Runes Trait which would be super helpful for Skaudardrengi given its main body has Siphoning on it. In general game terms because its a exp/research boost we should be trying to take it early in order to speed our trait growth and research speed.
 
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Apologies if my smooth brain glided over an earlier explanation, but why are we no longer going to teach prosthetic runes? Is someone else going to teach classes on them, or have they just reached sufficient ubiquity that we no longer need to push them?
They've reached sufficient ubiquity that we no longer need to push them.

Here's the table of Khazagar classes in the turn spoilers under Reports.

Classes of Note:
SubjectTeacherClass SizeUbiquity G(lobal), R(egional), L(ocal)ImpactNotes
Chainmaker Runes (counts as 3)Snorri KlaussonFull Seminar
(Steady)
G: Known+
R: Well-Known+
L: Universal
Defining, LuxuryThese Runes and the Combo would survive in the Far North, and in some Major Holds after Time of Woes. Cult of Smednir would mourn its loss.
Prosthetic RunesSnorri KlaussonFull Classroom
(Declining)
G,R,L: UniversalRevolutionaryThese Runes would survive the Time of Woes, Cult of Valaya practically honourbound to ensure it.

And tbh I think Grom would feel a dark and grim satisfaction if this rune that so many died for ended up spread across the entire realm. That is true spite beyond death.
 
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I want to just say, that's super grim that the chainforger runes are sitting as close to universal as it gets short of actually being universal like the prosthetics and the knowledge still manages to be lost in the south in the time of woes. I half expect the cult of Valaya would have to blackmail a runesmith at the tail end of the time of woes to write down the prosthetic runes to ensure they make it through.

All the southern universities being in holds that go down does not help.
 
I want to just say, that's super grim that the chainforger runes are sitting as close to universal as it gets short of actually being universal like the prosthetics and the knowledge still manages to be lost in the south in the time of woes. I half expect the cult of Valaya would have to blackmail a runesmith at the tail end of the time of woes to write down the prosthetic runes to ensure they make it through.

All the southern universities being in holds that go down does not help.
KaK Needs one.

Central Repository of the others.

I think windsight is gonna be the time we get the fabled More Seats Required (Rising Rapidly) attendance level.
 
Khaz is starting to develop some extracurriculars I see. First it was the cooking competitions, then the theater club. Now there's a bird hater club.

Edit: There's probably a birb (Brana) watcher club that Dolgi/Skarri runs.
 
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Khaz is starting to develop some extracurriculars I see. First it was the cooking competitions, then the theater club. Now there's a bird hater club.

Edit: There's probably a birb (Brana) watcher club that Dolgi/Skarri runs.
Khazid Okraz really turning into a University suburb. You got the Hot Spot of the night life, you got the school and facilities, you got shops and off campus lodgings.
 
I think we should mention the adamant gronti dragon to Snorri Whitebeard as another option.
Shit like this is why I'm starting calling it a Wonderwaffe.
It isn't another option.
A Godzilla is not an appropriate replacement for a continent scale ritual.
They do different things...

The dragon gronti might be an acceptable alternative to Snorri as a distraction, however that would rely on them knowing the gronti exists so that they are forced to plan around it. So probably not until its second turn marching to war.
 
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[X] Plan: Knock Knock Monoliths and Learning. (Turn 59)

[X] [Social:] Izgrom, putting another rock by Karstah's door.
[X] [Social:] Joll brings his apprentice, Snorri Jollsson, to Khazagar.
[X] [Letters:] Knowledge about how the Izril Clans are managing their creation[Standard, Evolving]
[X] Whitebeard's Letter: Through elvish contacts, we know that some elves of Tor Vernath are asking for Bel'Shannar's assistance, putting Malekith and his allies under time pressure. The Mages Malekith visited were suppressed by Bel'Shannar, since he could not ally with them and do not have much incentive to care about magical backlash to the people living here - only that their patron succeeds and spites Bel'Shannar and that the Waystone network in the Far North is not totally destroyed. Prince Gimli is friends with Prince Laequalys of Tor Vernath and the elf and his own mages may have a useful additional perspective.
 
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[X] Plan: Knock Knock Monoliths and Learning. (Turn 59)

[X] Whitebeard's Letter: [Less than 100 words, 3 main points about what you focus on when sharing your knowledge about Elven politics with Snorri Whitebeard.] Through our elvish contacts, we know that some elves of Tor Vernath are asking for Bel'Shannar's assistance and thus putting Malekith and his allies into active time pressure. The Mages Malekith visited were suppressed and pushed out of influence by Bel'Shannar since he could not ally with them and do not have much incentive to care about magical backlash to the people living here - only that their patron succeeds and spites Bel'Shannar and that the Waystone network in the Far North is not totally destroyed. Gimli, Son of Gloin, is friends with Prince Laequalys of Tor Vernath and the elf and his own mages may have a useful additional perspective.

[X] [Social:] Joll bringing his son Snorri to Khazagar.
[X] [Social:] Izgrom, putting another rock by Karstah's door.

[X] [Letters:] Knowledge about the other Thungni-Chosen [Limited]
 
[X] Plan: Knock Knock Monoliths and Learning. (Turn 59)

[X] [Social:] Izgrom, putting another rock by Karstah's door.
[X] [Social:] Dolgi Dolgisson's feathered friends.

[X] [Letters:] Knowledge about how the Izril Clans are managing their creation[Standard, Evolving]

[X] Whitebeard's Letter: [Less than 100 words, 3 main points about what you focus on when sharing your knowledge about Elven politics with Snorri Whitebeard.] Through our elvish contacts, we know that some elves of Tor Vernath are asking for Bel'Shannar's assistance and thus putting Malekith and his allies into active time pressure. The Mages Malekith visited were suppressed and pushed out of influence by Bel'Shannar since he could not ally with them and do not have much incentive to care about magical backlash to the people living here - only that their patron succeeds and spites Bel'Shannar and that the Waystone network in the Far North is not totally destroyed. Gimli, Son of Gloin, is friends with Prince Laequalys of Tor Vernath and the elf and his own mages may have a useful additional perspective.
 
Before we get too deep into voting, wanted to make the same deal I did for last turn:

Give me my Tholinn social and I will Put My Back into writing another omake.
 
[X] Plan: Knock Knock Monoliths and Learning. (Turn 59)

[X] [Social:] Izgrom, putting another rock by Karstah's door.
[X] [Social:] Dolgi Dolgisson's feathered friends.

[X] [Letters:] Knowledge about how the Izril Clans are managing their creation[Standard, Evolving]

[X] Whitebeard's Letter: [Less than 100 words, 3 main points about what you focus on when sharing your knowledge about Elven politics with Snorri Whitebeard.] Through our elvish contacts, we know that some elves of Tor Vernath are asking for Bel'Shannar's assistance and thus putting Malekith and his allies into active time pressure. The Mages Malekith visited were suppressed and pushed out of influence by Bel'Shannar since he could not ally with them and do not have much incentive to care about magical backlash to the people living here - only that their patron succeeds and spites Bel'Shannar and that the Waystone network in the Far North is not totally destroyed. Gimli, Son of Gloin, is friends with Prince Laequalys of Tor Vernath and the elf and his own mages may have a useful additional perspective.
 
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