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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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The key rune there is also MPurification. It's the only part that's needed to provide protection with storm forging. Flamedrinking just turns the wasted energy into something usable again. If we don't have it and a storm is coming, we can crash build something else with MPurification to stormforge if we wanted to.
 
LaggPlaguedDuke said:
The key rune there is also MPurification. It's the only part that's needed to provide protection with storm forging. Flamedrinking just turns the wasted energy into something usable again. If we don't have it and a storm is coming, we can crash build something else with MPurification to stormforge if we wanted to.
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Not a Bad Idea we can just give away the Crashbuild to our Hearthguard anyway since it should be powerful enough as an Anti Magic Amulet
 
LaggPlaguedDuke said:
The key rune there is also MPurification. It's the only part that's needed to provide protection with storm forging. Flamedrinking just turns the wasted energy into something usable again. If we don't have it and a storm is coming, we can crash build something else with MPurification to stormforge if we wanted to.
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Here's one possible Storm forging amulet, if we don't have access to Flame Drinking in time for the storm.

Gate of Purification

MPurification, Simplified Runic Amplification and Sanctuary

Three parts:

1. Sanctuary magnifies the innate anti-magic aura of the bearer, magnifying a Runelord's ability to still the winds. In high magic energy conditions such as around active monoliths or around a storm of magic, the stiller winds reduce the load that the protection amulet has to bear per unit of time.
2. Runic Amplification absorbs some of the winds and is repurposed to Runic Energy empowering the gear of the wielder.
3. MR Purification purges the excess potentially harmful wind exposure from the wielder's body, when the winds are above the capacity of Runic Amplification to process.
 
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Too be clear I don't think forging in the storm on the anvil is something I want to do without a Tested stormforging amulet. But forging outside during a Storm of Magic with the storm forging amulet might be a great test.
 
Snorri's body was continuously melted/regenerated in a high magic environment during the forging of his gear. Were there any long term effects aside from his missing eye?

Cause I wouldn't be surprised if Snorri had magic now.
 
Slight concern about the flame drinker gauntlet concept, Snorri rather proved that he can withstand basically any forging when he stood in the furnace to make Gromril chain.
The Flamedrinker rune says "mundane" flames explicitly.
A storm of magic is basically the furthest from mundane you can be without going far, far north.
E: Apparently I can't read.
 
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Dark as Silver said:
Slight concern about the flame drinker gauntlet concept, Snorri rather proved that he can withstand basically any forging when he stood in the furnace to make Gromril chain.
The Flamedrinker rune says "mundane" flames explicitly.
A storm of magic is basically the furthest from mundane you can be without going far, far north.
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???
From the Rune List directly, with bolding mine.
Magical and mundane flame fired against user is absorbed and turned into Runic energy.
 
soulcake said:
The Southern Runesmiths have said their piece, but rumours abound of great purchases of material being directed to both Izril and Brynduraz, for whatever purpose none but the Rhunki involved know, and they won't talk.
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Hmmm, on the one hand, aping our idea when we haven't even finished it is in somewhat poor taste. On the other hand, we could set up an actual sporting tournament and throw the ol' trollskin around a bit now. So yay?
 
big #DiscordDump because I can't actually find anything past June 26th. That's on me guys, sorry.


Is there an upper limit to the Master Rune of Expurgation?
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Snorri doesn't know yet, test and see. There likely is though. #Runes

Can we use the Rune of Spelleating and or Spite to de-terraform the land the Fimir have turned into a swamp? Remove the knowledge of the ritual from their heads and the like?
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No. Neither Spite nor Spelleating can do that really. #Mechanics #Runes #Theory

What sort of benefits does Runesmith blood have as a general reagent, and how does it stack up to the Essence of a Runesmith problem Snorri is tackling?
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As a reagent its no different from Dwarf Blood. Which can do some stuff for warding and anti magic Runes.
Doesnt do what he wants with the Rune of Calcination. Even still he doesn't think its that easy for essence of a Runesmith.

No don't ask if theres a T4 Ancient Runesmiths Blood you can get/order. A troll can only provide like 1 or 2 units of blood, make of that what you will. #Mechanics #Crafting #Theory

is the heat of the Adamant smelter a necessary part of it or is it merely a byproduct of the Adamant creation process?
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Snorri has no clue #Runes #Theory

Does Snorri think talismanic Expurgation could be used in Adamant creation? The effect written for it doesn't say.

Structural Expurgation is also kind of a question, with what Snorri might theorize is possible
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No it can't make Adamant, the Combo's lack of features mean it can devote more oomph to purging. Expurgation has branched out, and lost the potency needed to make Adamant. At least that's what Snorri believes. #Theory #Runes

RE: the Rune of Siphoning. Since it creates a tap on the spot, and putting more of them together doesn't speed up the charging process of runes, I got the idea that it is a supply-side issue than a channel-width issue
So, can we get a faster charging speed if we use it at hotspots, like, say Volcanoes?
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Snorri doesnt think so. He's tried testing on areas that Brana have said are more magically active, but the amount of Deep Magic created is no different. Its very consistent. #Runes

Can Brana see Deep Magic?
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They have complete Windsight compared to your eye, and they see nothing different. Whether that's because they dont have the Windsight refined enough to do it, or because the distinction between normal and Deep Magic isn't one they take any stock in, no one can say. Deep Magic is, after all, just what Thungni called it and for all his prowess, he is still a Dwarf. #Theory #Runes #Magic

What happens when you put Prismatic Dragon's Blood on the Rune of Thungni?
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Not much difference between normal Dragon's Blood and prismatic Dragon's blood. Resulting Rune of Thungni loses scope in maintenance reduction on Runes and Craftsmanship, but increased potency in Runes that deal with Flames (Generation, Potency and Resistance), Emotion specifically Pride, and other more odd things that are sort of tangentially related to Dragons. The Rune of Thungni doesn't affect potency of Runes, but adding blood makes an entirely new Rune technically speaking for those that are asking. #Theory #Runes
 
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So uh important thing to note from the WoG is that we cannot simply convert expurgation to structural and make a better adamant smelter. We need to make the greater adamant smelter for 6 ap (2 Snorri/2Karstah or just have Karstah do all of it with a 2/2 split of her time) which should spit out a structural MPurification based smelter combination that's probably different than the Expurgation combo.

We'd have to then compress that new combo which is 1 + 2 * (7 - 3 Odd - 1 Odd - 1 Metal - 1 Power) = 3ap total. It's a 2 ap investment to compress the structural adamant maker combo with our traits. This is not a problem because the original plan was convert expurgation for 2ap then design new smelter for 6 or more ap. Now we design the smelter for 6ap and compress for 2ap and see if that makes a better adamant smelter. Basically the same amount of actions put in but the order we do things is reversed.
 
LaggPlaguedDuke said:
Now we design the smelter for 6ap and compress for 2ap and see if that makes a better adamant smelter. Basically the same amount of actions put in but the order we do things is reversed.
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Moreover, the timing is actually rather good. Consider that Karstah alone can make the improved Smelter in 53 and 54. If Whitebeard's Gift is 55 and 53-54 is shaped by preparing for Whitebeard's Gift, completing our spite amulet, going to war, and doing prod for prods to push up Movement/Monolith trees, 56 is a good opportunity to compress the Improved Smelter combo.

Narratively too, I can imagine this being Karstah's time where she truly inherits the Rune Metal legacy of her adoptive father, and take her first direct contributions to the quest Snorri has been after for five centuries.
 
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LaggPlaguedDuke said:
So uh important thing to note from the WoG is that we cannot simply convert expurgation to structural and make a better adamant smelter. We need to make the greater adamant smelter for 6 ap (2 Snorri/2Karstah or just have Karstah do all of it with a 2/2 split of her time) which should spit out a structural MPurification based smelter combination that's probably different than the Expurgation combo.

We'd have to then compress that new combo which is 1 + 2 * (7 - 3 Odd - 1 Odd - 1 Metal - 1 Power) = 3ap total. It's a 2 ap investment to compress the structural adamant maker combo with our traits. This is not a problem because the original plan was convert expurgation for 2ap then design new smelter for 6 or more ap. Now we design the smelter for 6ap and compress for 2ap and see if that makes a better adamant smelter. Basically the same amount of actions put in but the order we do things is reversed.
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Caveat: We actually don't know if Compressing Structural Adamant Maker would actually make a rune better suited for Adamant production. So yeah, it is a gamble, but one I am ready to make, at least.
 
soulcake said:
They have complete Windsight compared to your eye, and they see nothing different. Whether that's because they dont have the Windsight refined enough to do it, or because the distinction between normal and Deep Magic isn't one they take any stock in, no one can say. Deep Magic is, after all, just what Thungni called it and for all his prowess, he is still a Dwarf. #Theory #Runes #Magic
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Erm wait. So they also see the absence of where magic is like Snorri?

Feels that that should be a distinction they know to make.
 
Hm... Does WHF have an equivalent to leylines other than the Waystone Network? Because if Deep Magic draws up magic from some vaguely natural network of magic in addition to the Waystones, then it could be that the incomplete Windsight Eye just doesn't know what it's looking at if it's not from the raw Winds.
 
catDreaming said:
Hm... Does WHF have an equivalent to leylines other than the Waystone Network? Because if Deep Magic draws up magic from some vaguely natural network of magic in addition to the Waystones, then it could be that the incomplete Windsight Eye just doesn't know what it's looking at if it's not from the raw Winds.
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The issue could likely be that Deep Magic is the actual magic of Malus, because the Winds aren't native to the world they're the division of raw Chaos into its constituent parts that then are attracted and bind to certain materials.

Deep Magic perhaps could be the "true magic" whereas the winds are "High Magic".

The problem with Adamant purification isn't imbuing the winds into an object but creating a vacuum to pull deep Magic into the adamant to remove natural impurities caused by the microscopic fragments of decayed Magic. Like how no matter how healthy a body is or how pure the magic dead skin/dhar clings to it by how it interacts with the world around it.
 
Voikirium said:
More detailed breakdown as I said was coming.

First, the Runes in general.

The Master Rune of Awakening is just straight up a necessity, and I leave it there. It is the Rune for Grontis, and this is a Gronti.

Ancestor Grimnir has been described as essentially the Rune of Killing, and that is exactly what I want this Gronti doing. I fully expect it will make it a more able fighter, one whose blows are stronger and better aimed and that the enemy in turn will be less able of hitting and striking the Gronti itself. Grimnir is the Ancestor God of fighting and that is absolutely the energy I want going into this, just an absolute train of pain.

Ancestor Valaya, meanwhile, well for one she is the second most warring of the Ancestor Gods by word of Soul and I am hopeful that it will bestow some more ability on Durazkal Gronti. More importantly however, her rune seems to generally improve durability, which is a definite good, and most importantly provide some resistance from magic, which I regard as the singular greatest threat to said Gronti, short of Paladin Jacques pulling the Virtue of Heroism out of his ass and carving the thing's head off because the Lady is absolutely cracked, yo.

I think even if these don't combo, the effect will be good; but I do think they will combo.

Now as for the combo:

I believe Ancestor Valaya and Ancestor Grimnir will combo for a variety of reasons, to the extent that it's not even a question to my mind. Metaphysically they're linked as wife and husband. Effectively, the increased durability and resilience of Valaya's Rune should work together with the increased skill and strength of Grimnir's Rune to create a warrior that fights better and performs feats of resilience and endurance that no merely mortal Dwarf should.

As for M.Waking+Grimnir or M.Waking Valaya, I consider it almost a reflection of Valaya or Grimnir training their Valkyries, their warriors, to fight better, more skillfully, to endure and to withstand until they can strike back. Imparting lessons onto the stone, as they once imparted lessons onto flesh, making it a more skillful, more enduring warrior.

To sum up as I sometimes see done:

"As Grimnir and Valaya themselves did, this stone shall fight in the name of the Karaz Ankor."
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Normally, I would caution against overreaching and trying to fit too many different effects into a single runeword. Weaponskill and magic resistance are pretty disparate concepts that seem hard to unify, especially on a golem were you can't freely pick a third rune to try to bridge the gap between the two; you're stuck with Waking as your third rune and have to work from the other end, picking your first and second to suit the third.

For your particular suggestion, though, I don't think overreach is a problem. Firstly, it's not evident to me the valaya rune has a magic resistance effect in the first place, in this case. It does when put on armour or an amulet, but on a golem it would express itself as an engineering rune and I don't think we have a firm idea of what you get out of valaya in that context. (The explicit effects of ancestor runes vary depending on substrate, so it's not safe to assume valaya always entails magic resistance. There's no apparent antimagic effect if you put it on a weapon, notably.) Secondly, the individual effect of valaya, or grimnir for that matter, is probably of secondary importance here anyway. Long ago, someone in this thread (possibly question mark guy? I can't remember) made an observation that always seemed astute to me: the waking rune imitates life, and the more lifelike you make it the stronger it grows. Therefore, one possible avenue for a waking runeword is to pick runes that help make the golem more true to life. Ancestor runes are good sources to draw from, in this respect, because of how much subtext they contain: each of them represents an entire person and so they're a lot more multifaceted than more straightforward runes like battle or striking. Grimnir's a general and valaya's a protector, and where they intersect we find steadfastness on both attack and defence, but both of their runes also contribute a lot of nuance individually. That fits your goal of making a golem that's a canny fighter, something with a bit more (apparent) intelligence than just a big stompy robot like you'd get if you just stuck might and fortitude on there, but it also seems to me that those three runes together could create a golem that's lifelike not just in looks but in its mannerisms, emulating a clearly-defined character trait but also having some breadth of personality on top of it. It's a promising concept, imo. I'll keep a look out for if you decide to try for it.
 
soulcake said:
No they see everything, but where Snorri sees no deep magic the Brana see magic, the Winds. Why this is the case, who knows? They're the ones with innate Windsight, so the difference is confusing.
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I'm going to assume it's something to do with preconceptions, or viewpoint bias having a very tangible effect on the ability. Snorri was raised and taught that Deep Magic was separate and a different to "regular" magic, whereas for the Brana it's all just different flavours of the same thing.
 
soulcake said:
No they see everything, but where Snorri sees no deep magic the Brana see magic, the Winds. Why this is the case, who knows? They're the ones with innate Windsight, so the difference is confusing.
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Cursix said:
I'm going to assume it's something to do with preconceptions, or viewpoint bias having a very tangible effect on the ability. Snorri was raised and taught that Deep Magic was separate and a different to "regular" magic, whereas for the Brana it's all just different flavours of the same thing.
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Or perhaps it's some other third thing, which will become apparent as we progress through Extrasensory.
 
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