OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Assumption she's a rational actor who still doesn't want to fight us.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Assumption she's a rational actor who still doesn't want to fight us.
- Location
- Potato land
Rattling off a list of demands now, after she's tried to forcefully make us leave, sounds like it'd result in a "Fuck you" at best, and an escalation of violence at worst.
Let's make it very clear to her that if she tries anything else, we'll consider it an act of war. Then we demand another meeting tomorrow morning, and leave.
Her mind control order was "Let me go". Those aren't the words of someone picking a fight.
Lord Chungus
God of Nutella
- Location
- The Hague (it’s where all the cool people are)
In this case, I'd say that anonimity is one of Sayaka's best shields aginst Rionna. Riona probably won't piss us off by killing a MG in our home town after we tell her not to do so, but if she thinks it will really hurt us she may very well risk it.
So yeah, a general "don't hurt anyone in this city or I will break you" works far better.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Killing her is pointless. At most, we should just kill her body and preserve her soul gen until such a time that we have the personnel, time, and resources to deal with her.
But I honestly don't understand Rionna, here. She willingly and nonchalantly walks into this situation. Then she loses patience just from talking with us, just in a matter of minutes, and demands to be let go despite the fact that we're not even trapping or restraining her, to the point that she tries to mind control us without even waiting for an answer?
She just makes no fucking sense. That, or she's just so arrogant and myopic that she thinks nothing of others and can't stand not holding all the cards in any given situation.
I'm not sure why you threw this character at us, @Firnagzen . She's not willing to cooperate, she's not a threat to us, she's not sympathetic, not nearly as interesting as her powers should make her, she isn't creating any interesting conflict, and she hasn't done anything for the quest other than interrupt and cut short far more interesting and enjoyable parts of the quest, grind the quest to a halt for a long time, and frustrate the hell out of everyone. I'm sorely tempted to just gem her or let her go, because I hate how she's just slammed the quest to a halt and I really don't care about her at all anymore. I just want to move on already.
But I honestly don't understand Rionna, here. She willingly and nonchalantly walks into this situation. Then she loses patience just from talking with us, just in a matter of minutes, and demands to be let go despite the fact that we're not even trapping or restraining her, to the point that she tries to mind control us without even waiting for an answer?
She just makes no fucking sense. That, or she's just so arrogant and myopic that she thinks nothing of others and can't stand not holding all the cards in any given situation.
I'm not sure why you threw this character at us, @Firnagzen . She's not willing to cooperate, she's not a threat to us, she's not sympathetic, not nearly as interesting as her powers should make her, she isn't creating any interesting conflict, and she hasn't done anything for the quest other than interrupt and cut short far more interesting and enjoyable parts of the quest, grind the quest to a halt for a long time, and frustrate the hell out of everyone. I'm sorely tempted to just gem her or let her go, because I hate how she's just slammed the quest to a halt and I really don't care about her at all anymore. I just want to move on already.
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Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Nor is it doing something worse, like becoming a murderer.
Not something I want Sabrina to have to deal with as long as we can avoid it.
Honestly, I intend to get as much as we can out of Riona and then throw her in antimagic prison.
Now that we know the shade she raised was not her sister's, but her sister's killer's?
We know Riona needs to consciously keep her shades around. If we antimagic her for long periods of time... she does not lose her sister's shade.
She loses the killer's shade.
Which... actually would be a good thing for her. She loses one of the big things that's keeping her focused on hate and revenge. She (forcibly) has to let her sister's murderer go.
Seriously, she's been literally holding onto it, onto her.
This kind of removed the potential dangers of doing a bad thing to Riona if we antimagic her. Sure, she might still hate us for it, but losing the anchor of her hate should help her in the long run.
We're not chucking gucas in prison just to keep them there. If we antimagic and imprison Riona, she will have to deal with a situation in which she can't overpower her issues in... how long?
No matter the reasons Firn could have chosen, at the end it doesn't change the fact Sabrina didn't react when she should have.
Thus it was surprise.
Thus Riona made a surprise attack against us.
Thus Riona made a surprise attack against us in spite of Sabrina being alert.
Thus Riona can attack us again with a surprise attack before we can have time to react.
And Riona has been shown willing to attack us at any moment without provocation... no, Riona can't be let go.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Made less specific.
[x]Try that again and I blow up your gem from the inside out.
-[x]You're being watched, hunt in Mitakihara, Kasamino, Asunaro, or Fukushima and your life is forfeit.
-[x]If you ever want to punish Kyubey instead of the pawns though, let me know.
-[x]Raise the field.
[x]Try that again and I blow up your gem from the inside out.
-[x]You're being watched, hunt in Mitakihara, Kasamino, Asunaro, or Fukushima and your life is forfeit.
-[x]If you ever want to punish Kyubey instead of the pawns though, let me know.
-[x]Raise the field.
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- Location
- Athens, Greece
I kinda wonder if there should be at least a few hours of moratorium on votes after each new chapter, because I feel people are rushing into immediate votes, before we have the time to fully discuss or even properly think about the newly developed situation or proposing solutions.
But since people are voting anyway.
[X] "I noticed you trying to mind-control me. If you even attempt to do that again, against me or any of my friends and allies, it will be an all-out war between us. So please don't, okay. I still want us to talk this out, not fight it out."
[X] "You also thought that grief-controlling is impossible, why are you so sure that bringing your sister back is impossible? I am SabrinaTomoeVee, I do at least one new impossible thing every week."
-[X] "For example do you think that in the tens of thousands of magical girls worldwide, with more girls created daily, there won't be at least one that made the wish or has the power to bring back the dead? Perhaps it's been magically prohibitive up to now, perhaps she's hiding because she knows she shouldn't advertise her power, but that's where my Clear Seeds come in. It might make practical what was only up to *now* effectively impossible. It might bring such a girl to us."
But since people are voting anyway.
[X] "I noticed you trying to mind-control me. If you even attempt to do that again, against me or any of my friends and allies, it will be an all-out war between us. So please don't, okay. I still want us to talk this out, not fight it out."
[X] "You also thought that grief-controlling is impossible, why are you so sure that bringing your sister back is impossible? I am Sabrina
-[X] "For example do you think that in the tens of thousands of magical girls worldwide, with more girls created daily, there won't be at least one that made the wish or has the power to bring back the dead? Perhaps it's been magically prohibitive up to now, perhaps she's hiding because she knows she shouldn't advertise her power, but that's where my Clear Seeds come in. It might make practical what was only up to *now* effectively impossible. It might bring such a girl to us."
At this point the only thing left to get out of Riona is her power. We can do that in timestop or while her body is in the freezer.
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- Location
- Potato land
I think she's reading this situation as a lot more hostile than we think. I wouldn't be surprised if she thought this was all a prelude to an attack, with Sabrina exhausting diplomatic options, but not actually intending to let Rionna go without some kind of concession. Which isn't exactly... inaccurate, to be fair.
It's also very possible she thinks she can't physically leave the privacy sphere.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
What do you mean, exactly? I'm not sure.
Well, she doesn't know we're not trapping or restraining her. By all means, we kind of are.
How many times we said in here that Riona trying to leave the Field would be considered hostile action?
Of course Riona has to think we might take offense if she tries to leave our bubble magic. She's in our territory, and not shy to throw threats around.
For the rest, I'd just give her being horrible at social and used to stomping over anyone in her way. Which didn't work here, so she doesn't know what to do.
Except not, because Sabrina clearly watched Riona try something, watched it fail, then watched Riona try something else.
Sabrina who is very much on edge. And a magical girl with magical reaction speeds.
Her being 'surprised' enough to let this all happen is not something I can even begin to consider as valid.
@Firnagzen, can you weight on this part of the discussion?
I'm reading the scene as you basically telling us we didn't need to do anything against Riona's attempts to use magic against us, since if there was actually a need to defend ourselves, I believe Sabrina would've had reacted, and it would've been unfair for her not to.
You even already clarified Riona wasn't trying to shade us, despite having no IC reason to know that.
Lord Chungus
God of Nutella
- Location
- The Hague (it’s where all the cool people are)
CHanged up some bits of Onmur's vote.
[X] Promise/agree to end the meeting. Because you're sick of it, not because she's asking.
[X] But first:
-[X] Call her out. On everything. Trying to use magic on you, threatening you, baiting you, everything.
--[X] Use this.
-[X] Get her to agree to concessions, as many as you can get without pissing her off too badly:
--[X] Priority: Arrange another meeting before she leaves (morning?).
--[X] She'll stay confined within a location of her choosing for the duration of her stay.
--[X] She'll answer questions, now or at that later meeting, about:
---[X] Our Soul.
---[X] Clear Seeds.
---[X] Wish Rejection.
---[X] The Feather.
---[X] How the fuck is her name spelled.
[X] Once Riona agrees to everything you can get her to, warn her to not try that again and dismiss the Privacy Field.
-[X] Let Mami know before you dismiss the Field.
-[X] Watch out in case she tries to pull something.
[X] Get out. Timestop meeting. Mami hugs.
-[X] Get Sayaka, Oriko and Kirika. This is important.
-[X] Ask Kirika to make Anti Magic Enchantments for our group's use while you talk.
-[X] Explain everything that can be explained about what just happened.
-[X] Don't take a side. Be as impartial as possible, and do not support any course of action over another.
Thoughts?
[X] Promise/agree to end the meeting. Because you're sick of it, not because she's asking.
[X] But first:
-[X] Call her out. On everything. Trying to use magic on you, threatening you, baiting you, everything.
--[X] Use this.
-[X] Get her to agree to concessions, as many as you can get without pissing her off too badly:
--[X] Priority: Arrange another meeting before she leaves (morning?).
--[X] She'll stay confined within a location of her choosing for the duration of her stay.
--[X] She'll answer questions, now or at that later meeting, about:
---[X] Our Soul.
---[X] Clear Seeds.
---[X] Wish Rejection.
---[X] The Feather.
---[X] How the fuck is her name spelled.
[X] Once Riona agrees to everything you can get her to, warn her to not try that again and dismiss the Privacy Field.
-[X] Let Mami know before you dismiss the Field.
-[X] Watch out in case she tries to pull something.
[X] Get out. Timestop meeting. Mami hugs.
-[X] Get Sayaka, Oriko and Kirika. This is important.
-[X] Ask Kirika to make Anti Magic Enchantments for our group's use while you talk.
-[X] Explain everything that can be explained about what just happened.
-[X] Don't take a side. Be as impartial as possible, and do not support any course of action over another.
Thoughts?
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
That would'be been nice, I think, yes.
Once the first vote is cast, discussion kind of dies down a lot.
How can I raise my voice against the Lord?!
I think the changes are reasonable, and not just because it's my Lord speaking.
Jonen C
F.M.D.G.
- Location
- Lincopense, Ostrogothia, Suecia
I kind of feel social-fu is possible.
Something along the lines of "you're right, I can't bring back the dead. Not sure if I'd want to if I could - what would your sister think about what you've done".
But that may be too on point and ignoring Orikos warning.
Something along the lines of "you're right, I can't bring back the dead. Not sure if I'd want to if I could - what would your sister think about what you've done".
But that may be too on point and ignoring Orikos warning.
Spectral Waltz
Scatterbrained Writer
- Location
- Walking the Endless Corridors
First of all, reminding everyone of Firn's word of god on this one. She did not try to turn us into a shade, which means she was only trying to get out.
No, she did thequivalent of trying to shove past us, just with a Jedi mind trick instead of her actual shoulder, that's not something I call an attack.
This does not follow in any way, we are being given the chance to react now and presumably anything we do in this moment will occur before any second attempt she makes.
Also y'know, the whole bit where this 'attack' was wholly ineffective against us and also not actually an attack.
You are overreacting here. This wasn't an attack, if she tries to do the same thing again it will won't work, and if she trids to do something differ tos us I can bet you no small sum that it will either be even less effective or it will take longer.
She's still not proven herself to be anything resembling a threat to instantly take action against.
Muramasa
Best Girl
Guys no. Guys stahp.
[x] Fine. Release the isolation field.
[x] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.
[x] Given the circumstance, while it's regrettable, I agree it's best that you leave Mitakihara at your earliest convenience. Further I must insist that you don't create anymore shades in our city for any reason or I'm afraid conflict will be unavoidable. That said, wish her a good night.
[x] Leave with Mami. You're done here.
[x] When you're out a considerable range from Riona, contact Homura by phone for a timestop meeting. Update Homura and Mami of the situation. You weren't able to come to any agreement with Riona. Bring up Riona's intentions to leave in the morning and threat assessment. Avoid social bombs.
[x] Fine. Release the isolation field.
[x] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.
[x] Given the circumstance, while it's regrettable, I agree it's best that you leave Mitakihara at your earliest convenience. Further I must insist that you don't create anymore shades in our city for any reason or I'm afraid conflict will be unavoidable. That said, wish her a good night.
[x] Leave with Mami. You're done here.
[x] When you're out a considerable range from Riona, contact Homura by phone for a timestop meeting. Update Homura and Mami of the situation. You weren't able to come to any agreement with Riona. Bring up Riona's intentions to leave in the morning and threat assessment. Avoid social bombs.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
[x]Muramasa
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
@Lord Chungus
Somethign I'm thinking about, while I don't agree entirely with this:
I'd still want to raise demands, I think we have to. Riona did this very wrong thing now, and now it's the best time to demand compensation for it, before it can be brushed away as being in the past.
EDIT: I'll throw some of my support behind Muramasa's vote, though I don't think we can be quite that lighthanded right now.
Somethign I'm thinking about, while I don't agree entirely with this:
I'd like to consider the possibility of not listing out demands quite as extensively.
I'd still want to raise demands, I think we have to. Riona did this very wrong thing now, and now it's the best time to demand compensation for it, before it can be brushed away as being in the past.
It'd be actually the third attempt.
EDIT: I'll throw some of my support behind Muramasa's vote, though I don't think we can be quite that lighthanded right now.
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For the past while we've been pushing her to "let us help her" with the thing in Edinburgh, and it has been making her more and more distressed by the minute, resulting finally in the recent outburst of attempted Shade and mind-control magic after she ended up telling us about her sister's killer out of frustration.
I think the only way to get her to even remotely calm down is to explicitly back down on that front. If we don't, she'll expect us to ask more questions about her sister and her killer and continue insisting on helping her somehow.
- Location
- Florida
I'm all for just letting her go and forgetting about her. She doesn't want to work with us, doesn't really want to talk with us, and it's feeling pretty meh at this point for me. Obviously keep an eye on her with Sayaka's pigeons until she leaves town, but otherwise... *shrugs*
Lord Chungus
God of Nutella
- Location
- The Hague (it’s where all the cool people are)
Perhaps rephrase them? I agree that making demands will just add fuel to the fire, but I can't think of anything else...
Less that she attacked us, more that she tried to mind-whammy us into letting her go. Still pretty bad, but not one that I'd punishwith death/gemming.
I don't see why she'd choose not to remain in her hotel room...?
Maybe we can give a measured response in addressing her by her Witch name?