[X] Of course it's all right. Mami is more important than school, than anything.
-[X] Extra tight hugs. You're here, you're not going anywhere.

[x] Help Mami recover enough that she can stop by the front desk and let them know that something came up.

[X] Rejoin with the Pleiades.
-[X] Suggest shopping! Or maybe a tour of Mitakihara, or SCIENCE, or hanging out at Mami's apartment cooking or watching a movie, or anything else everyone wants to do! What you do isn't as important as who you're doing it with.
--[x] If shopping happens, buy Mami a dress. You wanted it to be a surprise, but now you get to see Mami try a bunch of beautiful dresses!

Feels reasonable. If it becomes a problem, brinapilot can probably handle it anyway.

In the first line, please alter the wording. Mami is most important but school is important to Mami just as Kazusa is important to Mami. I'd much prefer a different affirmation for now. Something to the effect of "Mami, you thought you'd never see her again. Of course it's alright."
 
I proposed previously something along the lines of, "If that's what you want to do, then I'll support you 100%." No value judgment on the decision, just "More than anything, I want you to be happy."
 
In the first line, please alter the wording. Mami is most important but school is important to Mami just as Kazusa is important to Mami. I'd much prefer a different affirmation for now. Something to the effect of "Mami, you thought you'd never see her again. Of course it's alright."
On phone, but will do when I'm at a keyboard.
I proposed previously something along the lines of, "If that's what you want to do, then I'll support you 100%." No value judgment on the decision, just "More than anything, I want you to be happy."
We need to support it because it's a good idea, not because it's her. If we go "because it's you" her first thought would probably be something like "so it's actually a terrible idea and you're just humoring me".
 
[X] Of course it's all right. Mami is more important than school, than anything. Anyone.
-[X] Extra tight hugs. You're here, you're not going anywhere. You don't want to go anywhere, without her.

[x] Help Mami recover enough that she can stop by the front desk and let them know that something came up.

[X] Rejoin with the Pleiades.
-[X] Suggest shopping! Or maybe a tour of Mitakihara, or SCIENCE, or hanging out at Mami's apartment cooking or watching a movie, or anything else everyone wants to do! What you do isn't as important as who you're doing it with.
--[x] If shopping happens, buy Mami a dress. We can't make her look what she's worth to us, but we can make her look like a Million Bucks.

[MUMI INTENSIFIES]
 
Er. I actually didn't know this was the technical definition, so I'll preface this by apologizing for being the first one to use the incorrect terminology. :oops:

This isn't quite accurate. From what I recall, following the events of Oriko Magica, Homura proceeded to then outright murder Oriko and Kirika for the next several timelines-- before they'd even get a chance to contract-- because they might be a threat to Madoka, and didn't stop until she realized that them being potentials at all was vanishingly rare. Throughout this timeline, it's been by our word alone that she hasn't given them another .45 ACP facelift (and Sabrina's nearly been shot more than a couple times), and finally relented to us keeping them as our prisoners (after sawing Oriko nearly in half with machine gun fire). I find it mildly presumptive to believe that they were the only threats that Homura felt the need to suppress this way across ~100 loops. Also, PMMM seems to imply that she's been forced to kill Sayaka before, and it took a significant effort of will in Rebellion to not immediately gem Mami when she got the upper hand in their fight (notwithstanding the fact that she never actually did because Mami is amazing).

Murderface is a meme for a reason. However...



This was actually a lot of my point in the context of the original post where I was agreeing with you. Homura already sees herself as damned, and can justify pretty much anything in the name of saving Madoka's soul (up to and including selling her out to the Incubators on the off chance she could free her from the Law of Cycles)-- and if she fucks up, she can just reset and try again. In fact, there's probably also an Undertale analogy somewhere in here; this sort of time travel, where you have the ability to savescum every time you screw up, and have seen people live or die as a result of your actions over and over again, is a solipsistic nightmare that makes it increasingly difficult to see other people as people. She'd already given up on Sayaka completely because that's just who she is, notwithstanding the things that made her important as a person to people who weren't Homura.

Since it's absolutely vital that this be the last timeline, if Homura's already gunned people down before we showed up, we're going to have to forgive her those sins-- because she can't, no matter how well she can justify them. This is why Homuplomacy is so important and eats up so much of our time: We're trying to teach her how to be human again, to have hope in other people, and to believe that she deserves better than the Hell she's been going through, while at the same time getting across to her that her admittedly perfectly rational paranoia is hurting people unnecessarily.

Just because she's a murderer doesn't mean she's a bad person; after all, Homura did nothing wrong. :V
I will point out that whether we can call Homura a murderer in anything but jest is still up in the air. Homura killed Madoka as a mercy-kill/assisted suicide. She killed OriKiri under the belief they were going to kill the person she loved, while possessing no realistic alternative to killing them.

Article:
Definition of Murder:
  1. 1: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
Source: Merriam-Webster

Based upon people she's confirmed to have killed, only Oriko could possibly qualify for this, as she generally kills out of (perceived) necessity or mercy, rather than malice.

So...yeah. Homura is certainly a killer, but whether she's a murderer is hard to say without having access to a detailed history and/or her PoV.
 
Last edited:
No. To be a serial killer actually does require some form of emotional gratification from the act, it's part of the legal classification.

Homura is absolutely not a serial killer and I'm absolutely disgusted with how casually you throw that label around.
That's not true. A serial killer is a very specific thing. For one thing, serial killers are all psychopathic (or at least sociopathic). They all enjoy killing, or at least gain satisfaction from it.
I wasn't saying anything about Homura. I was commenting to be pedantic. That said part of the legal classification where? The laws of one country don't dictate use of the English language in the rest of the world and legal definitions do not always reflect typical use in any case.

Defining 'Serial Killer': So Much Confusion

serial killer | Definition of serial killer by Webster's Online Dictionary
 
I explicitly included a mention of the Nico situation in the previous winning vote. I assume @Firnagzen simply couldn't make it fit within the current update, as opposed to forgetting it entirely.
Well it wasn't forgotten because it's is currently in an unticked box in the current vote suggestions. One expects it will need to be included if anything is to happen.
 
Homura didn't really sleep like a normal person in the first place, to be honest. Years, or more accurately somewhere nearing a decade (she had lost track some few loops ago), of paranoia and keeping tabs on Madoka every second of every day had put quite the odd twist on her sleep instincts. Homura, on an average day, dozed, quite literally with one eye open. If she had been asked to describe it, she probably would have used fish as an example; even in sleep, she never stopped paying attention to her surroundings, and she never really closed her eyes and blocked out the world unless she was spending the time in timestop.

Which was a major problem, before this last loop. Timestop was magic intensive - it felt not unlike having a taut wire pulling on her spine in some undefined direction, slightly electrifying in a somewhat uncomfortable yet not unpleasant way. Of course, now she had a small cache of Clear Seeds stockpiled. It was still an odd experience going to sleep with the odd tingle in her back running, but in a way it was relaxing knowing that nothing was going to happen while she slept, to Madoka... Or anyone she cared about.

Madoka. Sabrina. Tomoe-san. Miki Sayaka. Sakura Kyouko. Kazusa-san. The other twenty or so people whe had gotten to know, closely. Close enough to hurt if they were taken away. Close enough to care.

And yet, here she was.

Homura stopped dozing and opened her eyes. The pale whites of the hospital ceiling greeted her with something she was completely unaccustomed to. An unfamiliar ceiling.

Homura took a moment to take a fortifying breath of air. Fresh air. She sat up, and stretched, ignoring the protests of her exhausted body like always, and the scratches, puncture wounds, and gashes still healing from the fight last night. Outside, the birds sung a triumphant song to herald the dawn of early May.

Homura didn't sleep, she dozed. But she, finally, for once, had a feeling that was going to change. The odd giddiness of the feeling ran down and around her stomach, through her muscles like a dance, and made her legs want to twitch. She didn't actually dance, of course. After what had happened to her right knee, she probably shouldn't have been walking for the next week. It was only her status as a magical girl that allowed her to heal as fast as she did. And even so, her wounds hurt. The pain let her know something far more important and poignant than the fact that she was alive though.

Wounds, like clothes, didn't persist through loops.

With a slightly pained grunt, she managed to lever her painful legs off the hospital bed. Fortunately, this wing was "generously" donated by the Shizukis, and thus the doctors here didn't ask many questions when a group of teenage girls showed up in need of healing. It also meant that Homura and her friends got very nice hospital rooms indeed, far better than the one she had after her Myxoma was removed (although she did earnestly appreciate the orphanage scraping up the funds, no matter how meager - She may have been a nerd, but the last thing she wanted was to be stuck in her bed all day lest she start slowly suffering oxygen deprivation). To whit, this one had a personal bathroom off to the side, a small counter, and even a flat-screen television hung across from her bed (Homura, it was to be noted, had developed a distinct distaste for television for a great many number of reasons) which was currently turned off. There was also a small calendar, hung across from the door of the bathroom in such a way that it wasn't quite visible from her bed.

Homura had a vested interest in the calendar. When she had been admitted into the room, it had read May 1st​. And while she was of course concerned about Tomoe Mami's compound fractures, Sabrina and Kazusa-san seemed to have the worrying well in hand. Miki Sayaka would be fine once she woke up and she was able to heal herself, and if she had to hear Sakura Kyouko whine about something as minor as a concussion one more time she was going to have an aneurysm. In any case, Madoka had emerged unharmed and without contract, marking the loop as a success. Her first success.

If her legs had been whole, she would have twirled. Her love was safe.

The calendar. Homura flinched and started hobbling toward it, ignoring the pleas from her knee. She could have Miki Sayaka heal it later in any case; what mattered now was getting to that calendar!

Homura caught herself on the doorframe to the bathroom, turning to look at the calendar... Which still read May 1st​.

Homura gave a sour expression. The least the nurse could do is change the calendar.

Sighing, Homura grasped the little sheet of paper, and, taking care not to rip down the whole thing, tore it off. Then the world dropped out from underneath her, and suddenly the sun didn't feel nearly as warm.

March 16th​

Homura began to hyperventilate. How could this have happened? She never flipped her shield over - never initiated the loop. It was her power. Her wish! She wanted to save Madoka! That was the wish! AND IT HAPPENED! MADOKA WAS SAFE, SO WHY HAD SHE GONE BACK?! WHY WAS MADOKA IN DANGER AGAIN?!

Thick black fingers of despair clutched at her, as her resolve crumbled into dust. Fury fought a losing battle with depression for her heart, and she fell back against the bathroom door. It was impossible. Totally impossible. How could-

Ring ring!

The phone, one of the new tablet-like ones Sabrina had bought for everyone just a week or so ago, buzzed and chirped a mockingly sweet tune on her bedside table.

Ring ring!

Without quite knowing why, still in the middle of her despair spiral, Homura limped over to the table and picked up the phone. The stupid grin Sabrina always wore smiled back up at her.

An ounce of confusion flickered in the heart of despair. Homura, as if she had weights on every finger, swiped the tiny green circle to the right.

"HOMURA WHAT THE FUCK?!"

Homura's despair flinched back a little.

It wasn't really hope, to be quite honest. Hope was a happy emotion, even in Homura's experience. Hope could and would hold back despair if even the smallest ounce of it remained, if even a tiny fragment of it was nurtured by it's owner. But this wasn't hope. It was abject confusion, laced through with a tiny tinge of irritation.

Some distant part of Homura, apparently with a black sense of humor, supplied that if Hope was the feeling a mother hand when seeing her newborn baby, then this emotion must be the emotion a soldier, in the midst of a firefight, was approached by the creepy individual in a mask from the Burger King commercials, and offered a meal.

"Homura?!" Came Sabrina's voice again.

"I-" Homura twitched, before gathering the willpower necessary to lift the phone to her ear. "I'm here."

"Homura, what the hell's going on?" Sabrina asked, a note of panic in her voice.

Homura was silent, not at all wanting to say her deepest fear.

And yet. "...I think... I looped."

That got a pause. "...what?!"

"I... I didn't do it on purpose, I swear-"

"Shush." Sabrina said, stopping Homura in her tracks yet again with a tinge of irritation. "I know. You didn't do it on purpose, because you didn't loop."

"Impossible." Homura said, shaking her head. Her hurt knee was starting to shake, but she ignored it.

"Homura, my soul gem is right here. In the room across from you - if you had looped, it would have had to be in your shield for me to be here, right?"

Homura bit her lip, trying to think of a way around the logic. "You've always been unusual."

"I know, but that was because of- Well, you know what that was all about."

Homura sighed, admitting defeat. "If that's not it, Vee Sabrina," she said formally, "then why are you here?"

"I dunno? Erm... Just to make sure, Homura, but does the date on your phone say March 16th​ too?"

A quick check confirmed it. "Yes." Homura breathed, her blood at this point replaced entirely by adrenaline. It was not a good feeling.

"That's super weird." Sabrina said.

"Unhelpful."

"Sorry. But point is, that we both have phones that say March 16 on them, despite the fact that we bought them before that date and you didn't loop." Homura nodded along as Sabrina listed what they knew, trying to piece things together.

"The calendar..."

"What about it?"

"It says March as well."

"That's... extremely creepy. None of our friends are cruel enough to play this sort of prank..." Sabrina said. Homura shook her head in denial, even though she knew Sabrina couldn't see.

"No... Mikuni?"

"No way. Last I checked Oriko still didn't have her foresight."

"You're certain you can tell?"

"It's an Incubator design. If there's one thing from the rats you can trust, it's their engineering."

"If it's not Mikuni Oriko... then who?"

"I don't know. It's pretty elaborate for a prank."

Elaborate, Homura thought, the fight-or-flight response starting to drain out of her, was going a bit too far. Changing one piece of furniture and two computer displays wasn't Homura's idea of elaborate. "Is that so?"

"Yeah." Sabrina said, sounding dead serious. "I don't know how, but they managed to get all the nurses in this wing to just up and leave. And Mami's still knocked out - I don't want to pull the plug on her morphine, but..."

Homura felt another chill run down her spine. "All the nurses are gone?"

"Yeah." Sabrina said, and Homura could hear the creaking of a door from her phone, and just slightly from outside the door to her room. "It... looks like it's just you, me, Mami... Maybe Sayaka. I hope Sayaka's here."

Homura hung up the phone and opened the door, accidentallly bashing Sabrina when it flew outwards. "Ow!" complained the foreigner.

Homura didn't care. She didn't even look at Sabrina, instead bringing up her phones contact list and paging down towards Madoka's number. Bringing it up she- twisted violently away from the peering eyes of a certain stupidly tall girl. "No looking!" She hissed, trying not to blush.

"She is kinda cute when she's sleeping, isn't she?" Sabrina said anyway, trying to put on a nonchalant grin. Somehow it fell flat though, and the silence deepened as the phone rang... And rang again... and rang again... And rang again...

"I'm sorry." a voice suddenly issued from the phone. "But the number you have dialed doesn't seem to be present on our network! Please hang up and try-" Homura slashed her finger violently across the screen to hang up, immediately twitching into her magical girl costume. Sabrina managed to get a hand on her shoulder, which was fine by Homura - the faster she got to the Kaname residence the better.

Whatever took Madoka from her, took May 2nd​ from her... She was going to make it pay in a way she hadn't ever even contemplated before... Once she found it, she was going to make sure it suffered an eternity for every goddamn second Madoka was out of reach.

It was almost calming when that live wire ran down her back. She was afraid, she realized now, about what might have happened. To her timestop, a bit, but mostly to her purpose.

She had purpose now.

End March 16th (Encore)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This was originally going to be feels, but then I had a sick idea about how things might go wrong.

Next time, Homura goes full murderface... but on who? Sabrina tries to mitigate the property damage. Is Sayaka even there, or is she wherever the missing nurses went? Speaking of, where did they go?

Progress is always slow, sometimes painful. But inevitably, time marches on. Even the willpower which stood a decade against that march must inevitably crumble... taking everything to an end, and a grand finale.
 
Er. I actually didn't know this was the technical definition, so I'll preface this by apologizing for being the first one to use the incorrect terminology. :oops:

This isn't quite accurate. From what I recall, following the events of Oriko Magica, Homura proceeded to then outright murder Oriko and Kirika for the next several timelines-- before they'd even get a chance to contract-- because they might be a threat to Madoka, and didn't stop until she realized that them being potentials at all was vanishingly rare. Throughout this timeline, it's been by our word alone that she hasn't given them another .45 ACP facelift (and Sabrina's nearly been shot more than a couple times), and finally relented to us keeping them as our prisoners (after sawing Oriko nearly in half with machine gun fire). I find it mildly presumptive to believe that they were the only threats that Homura felt the need to suppress this way across ~100 loops. Also, PMMM seems to imply that she's been forced to kill Sayaka before, and it took a significant effort of will in Rebellion to not immediately gem Mami when she got the upper hand in their fight (notwithstanding the fact that she never actually did because Mami is amazing).

Murderface is a meme for a reason. However...



This was actually a lot of my point in the context of the original post where I was agreeing with you. Homura already sees herself as damned, and can justify pretty much anything in the name of saving Madoka's soul (up to and including selling her out to the Incubators on the off chance she could free her from the Law of Cycles)-- and if she fucks up, she can just reset and try again. In fact, there's probably also an Undertale analogy somewhere in here; this sort of time travel, where you have the ability to savescum every time you screw up, and have seen people live or die as a result of your actions over and over again, is a solipsistic nightmare that makes it increasingly difficult to see other people as people. She'd already given up on Sayaka completely because that's just who she is, notwithstanding the things that made her important as a person to people who weren't Homura.

Since it's absolutely vital that this be the last timeline, if Homura's already gunned people down before we showed up, we're going to have to forgive her those sins-- because she can't, no matter how well she can justify them. This is why Homuplomacy is so important and eats up so much of our time: We're trying to teach her how to be human again, to have hope in other people, and to believe that she deserves better than the Hell she's been going through, while at the same time getting across to her that her admittedly perfectly rational paranoia is hurting people unnecessarily.

Just because she's a murderer doesn't mean she's a bad person; after all, Homura did nothing wrong. :V

Firn's stated that that OriKiri headcanon isn't canon to PMAS; and it's never stated to be canon anywhere. It's just a fandom assumption.

And since there's plenty of post-Oriko Magica timelines where Homura doesn't pre-emptively murder the shit out of them (Including Magia Record, which is pretty unambiguously canon) we can probably lay the idea to rest.

Homura's not a murderer. Even to the most recent timelines, she really has to force herself. She puts on a good show. She'll point the gun at your fucking Gem.

...But she'll force her hand to aim somewhere else. Because in the back of her mind she sees that barrel pointed at Madoka.
 
I will point out that whether we can call Homura a murderer in anything but jest is still up in the air. Homura killed Madoka as a mercy-kill/assisted suicide. She killed OriKiri under the belief they were going to kill the person she loved, while possessing no realistic alternative to killing them.

Article:
Definition of Murder:
  1. 1: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
Source: Merriam-Webster

Based upon people she's confirmed to have killed, only Oriko could possibly qualify for this, as she generally kills out of (perceived) necessity or mercy, rather than malice.

So...yeah. Homura is certainly a killer, but whether she's a murderer is hard to say without having access to a detailed history and/or her PoV.
Especially with malice, not exclusively. Self defense or defense of others is, legally speaking, a defense for murder, that doesn't actually make it not-murder. So a person claiming to be a lawyer once said to me on the internet anyway.

Which is pure pedantry that doesn't actually determine her character either way, but you're the one who brought out a dictionary. :p
 
[X] Of course it's all right.
-[X] Extra tight hugs. You're here, you're not going anywhere.

[x] Help Mami recover enough that she can stop by the front desk and let them know that something came up.

[X] Rejoin with the Pleiades.
-[X] Suggest shopping! Or maybe a tour of Mitakihara, or SCIENCE, or hanging out at Mami's apartment cooking or watching a movie, or anything else everyone wants to do! What you do isn't as important as who you're doing it with.
--[x] If shopping happens, buy Mami a dress! And get her to try on dresses! eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[x] At some point remember to ask about the meguca tailing Niko.
 
YES. EXCELLENT IDEA.

Hm. Uuuunless we want to save it for the entire group, after we go witch hunting?

[X] Of course it's all right.
-[X] Extra tight hugs. You're here, you're not going anywhere.

[x] Help Mami recover enough that she can stop by the front desk and let them know that something came up.

[X] Rejoin with the Pleiades.
-[X] Suggest shopping! Or karaoke! Unless we want to save that for after witch hunting. Or a tour of Mitakihara, or SCIENCE, or hanging out at Mami's apartment cooking or watching a movie, or anything else everyone wants to do! What you do isn't as important as who you're doing it with.
--[x] If shopping happens, buy Mami a dress! And get her to try on dresses! And try on dresses for her! eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[x] At some point remember to ask about the meguca tailing Niko.
 
Last edited:
--[] If shopping happens, buy Mami a dress! And get her to try on dresses! eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
If we're going to be doing this, I think it's only fair that we try on dresses for Mami as well.

Sabrina would probably do it anyway without it being included in the vote, but it never hurts to be sure!
 
Firn's stated that that OriKiri headcanon isn't canon to PMAS; and it's never stated to be canon anywhere. It's just a fandom assumption.

And since there's plenty of post-Oriko Magica timelines where Homura doesn't pre-emptively murder the shit out of them (Including Magia Record, which is pretty unambiguously canon) we can probably lay the idea to rest.

Homura's not a murderer. Even to the most recent timelines, she really has to force herself. She puts on a good show. She'll point the gun at your fucking Gem.

...But she'll force her hand to aim somewhere else. Because in the back of her mind she sees that barrel pointed at Madoka.
We've been over this, Aura. Homura killing O&K repeatedly is canon to PMAS.
 
[X] Vebyast

And so starts Mami's fall into delinquency. Many years in the future she's wearing leather jackets, has tattoos, A giant curl in the shape of a pompadour, and rides a motorcycle.
 
We've been over this, Aura. Homura killing O&K repeatedly is canon to PMAS.
Relevant snippet:
You cock your head, reminded of something. "Speaking of which. Why isn't Oriko dead? I figured you'd kill her after... what she did."

"I did, for a while. But I noticed, a few loops later, that I didn't have to waste my time on it; she would simply never contract by herself. I'm not sure why she and Kirika contracted that once, but I just stopped bothering," Homura says. "It was-"
I'm not terribly fond of the idea of Homura preemptively assassinating a couple of teenage girls, but that's what she said she did.


I explicitly included a mention of the Nico situation in the previous winning vote. I assume @Firnagzen simply couldn't make it fit within the current update, as opposed to forgetting it entirely.
Undoubtedly, but unless we vote "[ ] Continue vote in abeyance," unused elements of previous votes don't automatically occur. We have to vote for them again. (And thankfully, we are voting for it now.)
 
Especially with malice, not exclusively. Self defense or defense of others is, legally speaking, a defense for murder, that doesn't actually make it not-murder. So a person claiming to be a lawyer once said to me on the internet anyway.

Which is pure pedantry that doesn't actually determine her character either way, but you're the one who brought out a dictionary. :p
About that. Not an expert on law, but pretty sure that, if the person is killed in self defense (thus, within the boundaries of the law), it can't be an unlawful killing (which is a necessary requirement for a killing to be murder).
 
Back
Top