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- He/Him
Revenge against the troll-men. That'll help keep the Bloodthirst meter under control.
NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)
- Thread starter I.F. Ister
- Start date
- Original Fantasy Action
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- Tags
- norse mythology (mythology) original xianxia cultivation western cultivation ask sirihand did your mother tell you anything? discussion pleases yggdrasil farming gloating gets people killed granary management hubris is a coward's word you will die norsemen do not die when they are killed the qm has a bad memory the qm is bad at math viking courtroom drama (legal drama) vikings open voting
- Location
- Bretonnia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I was talking about raids.
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- He/Him
Killing an actually awful noble (the kind that actually abuses their people regularly) is still gonna be a net improvement in people's lives in all likelihood. Like, we're not doing it out of altruism and a bit of collateral damage is likely, but it's a lot less shitty in general than raiding some random person.
I'm not actually super invested in ever going raiding again (I'd honestly prefer not to), but if people want to it's an option so I thought I'd mention it as a possibility.
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- Location
- Bretonnia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Fair enough.
By the way, Christian nobles in this would actually have power, right? Feudal cultivation and all that. They probably wouldn't be a Knight - more akin to a Priest, if anything - but it's kinda shitty that they get power just by virtue of their birth.
As for raids...
Eh... it's not that I really want to go on a raid anytime soon, but I think never going on another one ever again is somewhat disappointing. Not to mention they do give really good orthstirr... We got 111 from our Lotharingia raid.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
If this place works like medieval Christendom, the expectation for a noble is that you are a knight, or something closely approximating one. Being a noble isn't an independent career track from being a warrior in the vassalage/manorial system.
(Vassalage is the part of 'feudalism' that governs how nobles relate to one another, manorialism is the economic system associated with it that governs how peasants relate to nobles outside the walled towns that often have their own status)
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We know there are actually four 'branches' of Feudal Cultivation, Chivalric (Knights and Squires), Clerical (Priests and presumably Nuns), Nobiliary (Nobles), and Errants (which are cultivators that don't fit in the other categories). We know very little about the Nobiliary or Errant branches in terms of capabilities...though, like the Clerical branch, they're almost certainly less combat focused than a Knight of equivalent level.
Eh. We gained +45 from the raid on the Bandits, which took a lot less of our time and effort...hunting local threats is still solid Orthstirr gain.
Knightly cultivation is more 'knightly order' here from what we've seen with chapterhouses and the like. Some clearly have estates, but it seems likely there are nobles who aren't quite that martially focused...it may even be a path followed mostly by noblewomen, who cannot be knights, all we really know is that it exists.
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CedeTheBees
Probably high right now
- Location
- Somewhere
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Was there wog on this at some point?
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Yep.
No further details were forthcoming (though we speculated a bit), but we got that.
- Location
- Bretonnia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean, yeah, but they'd still have enough power to put any non-cultivator to shame. Like, it probably does help that sin is an actual thing that can affect your cultivation in this world, but I imagine some nobles out there are probably assholes, especially when they rule over a population that they can kill with ease.
I mean, I guess? Hunting bandits doesn't have much of the same allure to me, probably in part due to the lower orthstirr gain. Not to mention that bandits-wise, I imagine it'd be a lot less consistent, since these guys are actual raiders. I imagine most bandits are more akin to the first guy we fought way back, rather than these guys.
Can't speak for monster hunting, or draugr clean-up, since we never did those, but I imagine they'd give decent orthstirr.
Not that it matters. I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority here... and I'm not so hung up about raids that I want to try and convince everyone we should do another.
Personally if we had an opportunity I would vote for going on another raid. After our trading mission of course. But just discarding that aspect of Norse society entirely feels wrong to me. We should maybe look into developing a terror radius to scatter anyone who shouldn't have to die.
Hmm. We should try putting Odr into animals at some point. The Knightly Cultivators might do something similar to create their companions. It might be tricky though. Like I could see an animal infusing Hugr and turning into a monster.
Hmm. We should try putting Odr into animals at some point. The Knightly Cultivators might do something similar to create their companions. It might be tricky though. Like I could see an animal infusing Hugr and turning into a monster.
- Location
- Bretonnia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, this is pretty much how I feel about it.
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- He/Him
This is the era of indulgences, so you can probably buy your way out of Sin to at least some degree. Based on Gabriel, Sin also seems to be at least partially guilt-based rather than objective, so if you get a guy who doesn't feel guilty about what they do...
I was honestly including those in the same category of 'local threats'. And I think hunting local threats comes with pretty substantial benefits other than Orthstirr alone (ie: less local threats we have to deal with on terms other than our own).
I'm honestly only mildly against raiding as long as we're pickier about our targets. Raiding other Norsemen who we know are assholes, for instance. Or the aforementioned unpleasant Christian nobles.
I do think we're booked way too solid to go on a real raid for at least the next three years, though. We're gonna be busy.
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- Location
- Bretonnia
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- He/Him
Oh right, I forgot that paying monasteries and poor people to pray for you was a thing. Damn, that definitely gives them even more leeway to be a shitty person. I wonder if Knights/Clerics keep them in check, or something.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Feudal Cultivation is extremely elitist.
Pretty sure one of their maxims reads something like 'Rule or be ruled'.
Ditto the Cathar genocide, although that hasn't happened yet, and may not happen in this timeline.
Honestly I think the term Fervor and Zeal says it all. They relate to intense passion and intense belief in a cause. In other words, Sin is probably doubt-based. If you truly and earnestly believe that burning down an entire city full of people is a good thing? No Sin for you, even if it's an atrocity. If you think you were in the wrong for hitting a woman? Sin, because you're ashamed you did it. Doubt because you couldn't fight off an endless horde of Troll-Men? Sin, because you're experiencing self-doubt over yourself.
Pretty sure one of their maxims reads something like 'Rule or be ruled'.
We did fight that priest who was literally mind controlling people into fighting suicidally.
The Saxon war and associated massacres, sacrilege et al would be pretty much impossible to do unless Sin is fully subjective or non-Christians have no ethical value under Sin valuation. Especially the part afterwards where they get Sainted/Beautified, which is honestly especially damning.
Ditto the Cathar genocide, although that hasn't happened yet, and may not happen in this timeline.
Honestly I think the term Fervor and Zeal says it all. They relate to intense passion and intense belief in a cause. In other words, Sin is probably doubt-based. If you truly and earnestly believe that burning down an entire city full of people is a good thing? No Sin for you, even if it's an atrocity. If you think you were in the wrong for hitting a woman? Sin, because you're ashamed you did it. Doubt because you couldn't fight off an endless horde of Troll-Men? Sin, because you're experiencing self-doubt over yourself.
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I mean, Knights and Clerics can do the same. I suspect that the better and more idealistic ones do what they can to keep the less pleasant ones in check, but this world mostly mimics real history and real Christian Nobles did some legitimately awful stuff (though not necessarily because they were Christian), so I doubt it works all the time.
Charlemagne clearly still committed mass murder in this universe given Blackhand's reaction, and he was definitely a high-end Christian/Feudal Cultivator.
Yeah. This. There may or may not be some objective measures, but they aren't anything you can't work around with doublethink or sincerely believing that your actions are justified and maybe some indulgences to round things out.
Though, on a pedantic note, the Cathar genocide has yet to occur in this universe.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
My edit-fu was not fast enough to correct myself >.>
Or Sin is based on the interpretation your local cultivation culture has on the bible.
The city you butchered wasn't Christian? Congratulations on fighting those devilspawn! Deus Vult!
The city you butchered was Christian (and recognized by your local cultivation culture as such)? Vile murderer! Sin!
You butchered a city and your local interpretation doesn't believe in killing people for not following ( the correct interpretation of) the bible? Vile murderer! Sin!
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It has to be partly personal and subjective because Gabriel was suffering from it for not doing better against the Troll-Men, something neither Christian doctrine nor the local people would expect of him. That was just straight up completely unjustified guilt, and yet it was seemingly enough to get him some Sin until Jerasmus had a talk with him.
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It might be that his knight hood involved oaths that he believes he failed to live up to and that Jerasmus helped him come to terms with.
(Or penance stuff)
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Sure...but the key part there is 'believes'. His personal beliefs need to be relevant, not just those of Christians in general, or he wouldn't have had the problem.
Finally had time to read and catch up....
On the other hand, i can totally see hiding one in an empty barrel for emergencies.
Flower embroidered shirts/tunics looted from noble houses, because what does he care they are formal wear when they are so soft?
The glasses are a suvenier from the eastern trip (they are runed to self repair)
Random reward from a fisher from somewhere on his wanderings, either because he sawed him or because helped catch a fish (it was thiiiiiiis biiiig (\______________o______________/) )
he learned to cook before going off on adventures alone, and will proudly tell about it (Learned from uncle Strig that he can hit people freely when they try to make fun of him for it!)
I imagine Asgeirr will be more... consistent in his troubles. frequent, but not that bad.
Eyvor might do base jumping with the statistics...
just imagine THAT inborn power....
Not to mention all the training that goes into a war horse....
Now, add in things like spirit beasts bloodlines and enchanted armors and stuff....
On the other hand though, we could go and hunt some Norse monstrosities for him, and send him back as a kind of "black knight" that has learned to "harness the unholy, heretic practices of the barbarians" to keep his monstrous steed in check.... (Yes, its mostly about just smacking it when it don't beheave, but also going on hunting trips with it and the like....)
[X] Plan: Like a Kite, we fly
Just one question.... can we flick it into the sky? or was that what the "skewer it up" advice was about? because i thought it was about impaling it and parading it around like a festival decoration....
i am kinda worried it might try to destroy Sageseeker though....
Oh gods... please, tell me they were NOT fermenting one of these threaded man in one of the barrels....
On the other hand, i can totally see hiding one in an empty barrel for emergencies.
....with Abjorn's calming trick and Gabriel's miracles, i could easily see them just... putting the threaded man to sleep.
Ah, Stigr's luck pretty much guarantees that, yeah.
hm... lets see....
Flower embroidered shirts/tunics looted from noble houses, because what does he care they are formal wear when they are so soft?
The glasses are a suvenier from the eastern trip (they are runed to self repair)
Random reward from a fisher from somewhere on his wanderings, either because he sawed him or because helped catch a fish (it was thiiiiiiis biiiig (\______________o______________/) )
he learned to cook before going off on adventures alone, and will proudly tell about it (Learned from uncle Strig that he can hit people freely when they try to make fun of him for it!)
i mean, IF explicitly called out Eyvor as more likely to cause troubles...
I imagine Asgeirr will be more... consistent in his troubles. frequent, but not that bad.
Eyvor might do base jumping with the statistics...
i mean, Halla saw no way to kill Steinarr with, after she got frenzy, and for all that he is badas, we have WoG he isn't Steelfather level.... so maybe not that bad?
The 9th son of the 9th son of the 9th generation in a row!
just imagine THAT inborn power....
that was for the shapecrafting ones, and even then, not all of them.
i am kinda curious though, if horse is just the "classic" option for knights or not. Because if it isn't....
That will be a fun deal for sure. Remember, horsebreeding is a fucking expensive thing even today. it was much MUCH worse in the middle ages....
Not to mention all the training that goes into a war horse....
Now, add in things like spirit beasts bloodlines and enchanted armors and stuff....
On the other hand though, we could go and hunt some Norse monstrosities for him, and send him back as a kind of "black knight" that has learned to "harness the unholy, heretic practices of the barbarians" to keep his monstrous steed in check.... (Yes, its mostly about just smacking it when it don't beheave, but also going on hunting trips with it and the like....)
[X] Plan: Like a Kite, we fly
Just one question.... can we flick it into the sky? or was that what the "skewer it up" advice was about? because i thought it was about impaling it and parading it around like a festival decoration....
i am kinda worried it might try to destroy Sageseeker though....
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
His personal beliefs... or his oaths.
To push things a little harder towards xianxia tropes, suppose Gabriel is imagined as, say, a Qi Condensation cultivator following the Dao of Chivalry. On some level it may not matter if he even objectively believes that he should have been invincible in defense of the innocent, because to really follow the Dao of Chivalry is to be exactly that. Gabriel was unable to act in accordance with the path he's sworn to follow, in this interpretation, and that's Sin even if it wouldn't be Sin for a peasant or a clergyman in the same situation, and even if Gabriel believes the facts of the matter justify it.
Because whether it's right or wrong, it's not Chivalry.
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- Location
- Bretonnia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
When was this? If anything, I'd assumed Asgeirr would be worse, because he has Low Self Control, Wrathful and Bloodlust as opposed to Eyvor's Bloodlust+ and Wrathful.
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Right, but there are pretty clearly at least a few Knights who would likely kill our children for being pagan and practicing 'sorcery' (remember, they have fylgja already). There are certainly plenty of those who would not consider them innocent and not take the Sin for failing to protect them or, well, Charlemagne's whole thing wouldn't have happened.
Which means Gabriel's own interpretations and beliefs are integral to why he had a problem here...which means that other Christian/Feudal cultivators' beliefs and interpretations are likewise integral, so if they truly believe that baby murder isn't against their Oaths and doesn't get them any Sin then it isn't and it doesn't.
Which is the whole point I'm making here, fundamentally. The nature of Gabriel taking Sin there for not protecting them is such that it indicates that Sin is about something inherent in the specific psychological makeup of the person taking it (doubt, guilt, something like that). Meaning different people with ostensibly the same cultivation system will sometimes take Sin for very different categories of thing.
Bloodlust+ does mean she needs to do Bloodlust twice as often. That's...not nothing. Imperial Fister even said she might be more trouble than Asgeirr. Personally, I think it's a situational thing. As long as we keep them sparring hard pretty often, we can keep Bloodlust at bay...there is no such easy remedy for Low Self Control.