How about this: You can vote for speaking with Redscarf without that Point, then I'll edit my post to remove it.
NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)
- Thread starter I.F. Ister
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- Original Fantasy Action
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- norse mythology (mythology) original xianxia cultivation western cultivation ask sirihand did your mother tell you anything? discussion pleases yggdrasil farming gloating gets people killed granary management hubris is a coward's word you will die norsemen do not die when they are killed the qm has a bad memory the qm is bad at math viking courtroom drama (legal drama) vikings
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Sure, done. I'm also voting for the Headman thing, but I'm fine with talking with her more as well.
How about voting for the Skald without Blackhand Battle?
Both the kids and the rumours question are interesting and only fearsome hill is still voting for the old version.
Quick note: Thread discussion evolved to the point of everyone removing the Blackhand fight, If it isn't critical to you, you should probably remove it, too.
Done.
I don't think it's particularly bad for us, partly because everyone is already going to be aware of it when interacting with us due to how important kinship and ancestry is in Norse society?
It's got to be a matter of public record already. Blackhand was a famous man and essentially the king of a whole island which then blew up. No one in the valley is going to be unaware that he killed Hasvir, and Steinarr is both well known in these parts and quite prominently Blackhand's son. There's no secret here; everyone we've encountered who knows their family history has always been interacting with us on the basis that we're the granddaughter of an old monster, and are effectively exiled and disinherited royalty. It's only us who hasn't been aware of that throughout the Quest.
Furthermore, I think that it's maybe not fully inhabiting the Norse mindset to think that this story is going to make people dislike us. Hasvir was a hero, but Blackhand was a legend as well. Fighting each other is what heroes do, the strongest prevails, with much honour to both. If Steinarr or we had done it, then yes, we would probably be in a feud with Hasvir right now, or his some of his surviving relations at any rate. But heroic ancestors are heroic ancestors. This is the same culture which thought that Main Character of Norse Twitter Egill Skallagrimson was a great guy to celebrate having as an ancestor.
Like, I don't think there's any urgent need to go broadcasting it, or much benefit to brining it up specifically, because it's kind of redundant. But I don't think it's likely to cause some controversy either. It would probably just be interpreted by people as an attempt to big ourselves up by citing our famous ancestor; same as if we mentioned Sigurd killing the dragon. There's some value in telling Lidrun the story since she may not have heard it, but given how Skald powers work she'd need to witness it or be an eyewitness herself, and that's not possible (yet).
AeonIlluminate
The power of friendship and aggressive landscaping
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Skippy, I feel like its more a "let sleeping dogs lie". Basically, yeah it would be neat, but they've both been dead a solid 40 years, and the fight is prolly much older than that, and it would be a bit mean to show a Skald a fight where our grandfather brutally killed one of the other most powerful family's grandfather. If we framed it more as "Hey I saw some ghosts of some old warriors fighting, wanna come with and see it" then it would probably go over a bit better, but it would still be a local hero getting butchered.
I think that if Halla personally brought the fight up at like, a social gathering, it might come across as a "Why are you bringing this up?". Like not in the sense of instantly starting shit, but maybe producing the kind of awkward moments that can lead to someone saying or doing the wrong thing and a fight getting started. That's fair to note.
But a Skald is like, the closest thing to a historian that exists in our culture? She's a neutral third party, who is going to be leaving soon, and is asking about notable stories in the region. Also, keep in mind, any benefits in prestige we accrue (although I'm not sure there would be mechanically any Orthstirr because it's not about us per se) would also likely be mirrored on Hasvir's side. We'd be telling the story of his grandfather as a legendary hero who died a warrior's death, and keeping his name alive by weaving him into the wider Saga of Hallr Blackhand. Arguably we'd be doing Hasvir a solid there.
The main reason it's not really viable IMO is because we don't actually have enough to go on for Lidrun's Skald-sight to work, it would just be an anecdote we're telling her, not something she can take in with all her senses like she did the Jotun story. That might change if we could actually bring her on the Heart of the Hading expedition and she could witness it herself. But given I think a lot of what Halla was seeing was essentially traces of Blackhand's memories, I'm not sure Lidrun could see it, unless we used Seidr to share our sight with her somehow.
If we did invite her along when we go, we could also in theory invite Hasvir along to show there's no hard feelings if people are concerned about it. Reconnect with our heritage whilst also reaffirming how our generation has decided to bury the hatchet, that sorta thing. But I'm not too fussed either way honestly.
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I think you're forgetting an important matter of kinship in this as well, actually: How many people are related to Hasvir the Elder.
Sure, people know about the Hasvir/Blackhand thing, but having it rubbed in their faces isn't gonna do anything good for us or our reputation given that, like, half the valley are related to Hasvir the Elder...the story of how our ancestor killed theirs being brought up doesn't seem likely to endear us to anyone, y'know?
Would it result in a blood feud or anything? No. Would it be less than ideal? I think so, yeah.
I'm not sure Steinarr is prominently Blackhand's son. He actually doesn't talk about his father much...we made it to the age of 12 without knowing who we were named after. It isn't a secret per se, but he's not yelling it from the rooftops either. And I think that may have something to do with the delicate situation locally in that regard.
If we were rubbing it in their faces, sure, it might ruffle people the wrong way to bring up the story, but telling a Skald about a local legend is not really the same thing? Also it's not necessarily derogatory to Hasvir Hadinghero to give the story to a Skald. Dying in combat against a legendary opponent is not seen as a mark of disrespect in Norse culture, I think that's an important thing to remember.
As far as the prominence of Steinarr being Blackhand's son goes... I think the fact that Halla was not aware until age twelve might have more to do with how the early quest was structured and how information was parcelled out, and also Halla being a bit of a sheltered kid in some ways. Blackhand was a Big Deal, and it hasn't been that long after his death. The political ramifications of stuff Blackhand did are still very much alive today. I don't think every child in the valley would know, but all the stronger warriors have to.
I agree FWIW that Steinarr does not make a big deal of his parentage, but... Blackhand casts a long shadow, and we're stuck in it whether we like it or not.
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Sure...but 'my ancestor heroically killed yours' is still a reason for a blood feud in Norse culture as well, if they choose to make it one. I don't think anyone is gonna do that specifically, but I don't see any good coming of it getting brought up a lot either.
Oh, I agree the prominent people know...I was saying that him not bringing it up seems likely to be tied to not wanting to step on any toes locally by emphasizing it.
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Eh, I'm not so sure about this? Like, sure, maybe if a person went out looking for a fight and then died to a legendary fighter, some people would be fine with it. But a legendary fighter killing you when you're just trying to live your life? For example, I doubt people are going to be fine with Harald Fairhair when he starts his conquest of Norway.
I'm not sure? Like at least going by Sagas, whilst you do see violence repeated over generations, the immediate causes are always more proximate. Like, you'd have Horra being angry about Hasvir leads to his feud with Steinarr over their second cousin's marriage abduction, which then leads to Hasvir Junior eventually starting some drama over our goats grazing on his land, leading him to wait in ambush for one of our shepherds, and it escalates until someone's house gets burned down with them still in it. We definitely do want to keep that hatchet buried, I agree.
Making a big thing of it, or trotting it out as a party story, yeah, probably not. But a Skald is sort of a historian of oral history, so it does not feel like that? The main issue as I say is there's not really enough to get her teeth into.
I do think if we wanted to avoid this coming across the wrong way through the valley rumour mill, a good idea might be to invite Hasvir along on the Hading expedition if we're inviting Lidrun. On the one hand, it might be more fun for us to do solo... but it could also lead to a Muna where both of us reaffirm our choice not to be defined by the mistakes of our ancestors. Hasvir is pretty cool and I'd like it if we had a friendly rival to sharpen ourselves against, especially now Gabriel is gone.
Well that's a fair point, and I'd agree, but I think this is pretty definitely the former case rather than the latter one? It's also in the past, and I think people are more happy to like, celebrate their ancestor being a legendary hero who died gloriously, than they are to celebrate them or their living relatives dying a glorious death themselves, for understandable reasons.
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Yeah, I just don't think bringing it up like that is good or helpful. I don't think it would actually cause a feud or anything, but stirring up bad feelings seems both possible and unpleasant.
Well, that's the other issue with asking her to come along...she's no longer gonna be around by then, so she'd need to come back and I suspect she has other priorities. As for Hasvir...Hasvir is not a particularly nice guy. He's a cold, arrogant, ruthless man who saw nothing wrong with many of the awful things his father did morally, he just thought they were inefficient and counterproductive (which, to be fair, was an entirely accurate assessment).
I don't hate him or anything, but befriending him is...dicey. Not impossible, but dicey.
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This is my general inclination. I could be persuaded to ask Hasvir along with a good enough argument, we do tend to be good at making friends after all, but I currently lean towards this being a personal pilgrimage we have no need to tell people outside close friends and family about (we do need to tell them because we are not going alone...that would be dumb).
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I'm not so sure? I got the impression that Hallr killed him for entirely selfish reasons, and that beforehand Hasvir has just been chilling. Not exactly something one would celebrate. Although I'm not 100% on how the events played out, to be honest?
Lidrun has mentioned she's going to be in Jurgdby come summer, which isn't that far away. If we're doing a small low-stakes trading expedition in say Summer 2 or Summer 3 (which I know is not decided yet, for the sake of argument), then it would be easy to stop by and invite her then. We could also invite her on the trading expedition if she's bored in Jurgdby! Obviously I'm voting to do this now, but I expect we could do it at the time without much worry. The worst thing is she's not there when we send the invite, but it's not the end of the world so long as we don't invest too much into it.
As far as Hasvir goes... basically I think he could be a friendly rival, if that makes sense? A steel we can sharpen ourselves against. The past has decreed that we should be enemies, but instead we've decided fuck it, we're going to be Frenemies instead. We don't have to go for it, there's not infinite narrative space for every plotline we might want to pursue, but IDK, I was really impressed when we visited Asvir that one time and he was fighting two guys who were stronger than him at once to get better, blood running down his face, living his best hotblooded shounen protagonist life. As long as he doesn't start simping for us too, that might be a good substitute Gabriel.
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I'd probably be down for that then, in terms of the trading expedition and assuming we do one...I'm not inclined to invite her to the Heart of the Hading either way, though.
I'm not against being a bit friendlier with Hasvir, I'm just noting the difficulties with becoming real friends, which makes bringing up the source of the feud between our families to him in such a vivid way a bit fraught. Like, if we see him I'm down with saying hello and being friendly...inviting him along to witness our grandfather kill his? Potentially more of an issue.
Huh, I'd assumed the fight was probably over Cultivator Shenanigans of some sort. Like not necessarily that Blackhand was in the right, just that it was over something.
But yeah it's possible you're right, and you're definitely right to note that we don't know a lot about the backstory or what led to it. That's probably a good reason not to talk about it to third parties until we actually know, actually. Whatever drama led to the fight could potentially be more serious than the fight itself.
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I think it's sort of what they call a high variance play, there's a chance it goes really wrong and a chance it goes really right. But one thing in favour is that I bet being able to watch it might let him resurrect the Hading Style.
Also... I think if we approached it the right way, it might defuse a lot of the tension? We'd be inherently offering to share power with him, and acknowledging that he is an interested party here and has a right to witness and commemorate this event. There's no reason for us to make ourselves vulnerable by inviting him, so doing so is a sign of trust.
But yeah I'm not necessarily in love with the idea.
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Regarding the Horrassons, one of this days i would like to talk with the Shapecrafter brother (don't remember his name), i want to see what he has to offer in services and knowledge.
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Well, that much is clear cut. Blackhand killed Hasvir because he wanted seidr, and Solrun tasked him with killing Hasvir as her price for teaching it to him.
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Yeah, Blackhand confirmed this at one point. There was nothing personal between Blackhand and Hasvir, it was straight-up mercenary work: Solrun hired Blackhand to take Hasvir out. That's slightly muddied by Solrun and Blackhand becoming lovers afterward, adding a personal element, but evidence suggests that was indeed an 'after the fact' thing.
Now, Solrun's reason for getting Blackhand to do this was that Hasvir had killed her father so it wasn't an unprovoked or impersonal act on Solrun's part...but according to Blackhand any sob story was secondary from his perspective, he did it to learn seidr. Period.
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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Alright, back from work. I'll call the vote in 30 minutes, how's that sound?
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Seems reasonable to me.
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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Alright, voting is now closed