I think that only costs 1 Reward die, though I could be wrong. Added nevertheless.

@Imperial Fister generally locking out Traits seems to be 1 Reward Die. Is that still true of Bloodlust?



I'm very against doing this before we engage in some animal experimentation, for the record.
You actually need 4 Reward Dice, to 100% lock out Bloodlust.

After all double traits roll at 4d6.

1 Reward Dice on locking it out guarantees it won't be the 'Improved' version however.

I don't like locking out Bloostlust because I like Bloodlust (the normal version anyway), and especially so because it locks out Hemophobia.
 
Locking it to not the improved version seems ideal, honestly, if 1d does that we should probably leave it at that. I think, if we're just subtracting successes, we need more like 2d for that, but locking things out seems to work mostly by not having them rolled for in the first place (they go to the end of the list, which effectively removes them). That function might work on Bloodlust as well, which is why I asked.
 
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I mean it would be pretty good to see if we can reward dice Bloodlust towards the 'normal' version instead of either being locked out or being '''upgraded'''.

Speaking of which, do we need to lock out Unlucky/Runt/etc, or does locking in Luck/Giant/etc already lock those out?
 
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Finally caught up... stayed up half an hour longer than i planned in part to finish said catching up :p I'll have general feedback and thoughts and whatnot tomorrow, but some thoughts that i put in my drafts while catching up:

Do we get Orthstirr from our farm in the new system?

Is there a reason we haven't started building the house/building part of our soulscape? (or is that not part of building out realm 1 anymore? i remember there being some back and forth on what exactly the 4 requirements for)

Have we tried alloying sword and aetgir? or one of those and gust?

Iirc, way back when blackhand first woke up, and we talked about the witch, blackhand said to just go kill her, so why is it now potentially nid or odreng for someone-possibly-halfdan to have done so?


Hopefully someone mentions this idea before i catch up but: is the water literal (the 'sparkfugue' as others have proposed, with halla forgetting to drink or eat for Days), or is this saying that there will be an odr "upkeep" for some things? (since it comes from a well, like water?)


This sounds like a hint to spar with him :p (also just in general i think abjorn could use more fighting-screen time...something about one of his recent scenes had me wondering if he had...not nidheart, but whatever the term for a cultivation snarl leading up to a potential heart demon would be called in this system :p
oh right... i meant to give my feedback, whoops :p Sorry about that, among other things i got...super into Bofuri and have blasted my way through the anime, the manga, and now most of the way through the ebook version XD

I'll try and remember any more specific feedback but the big things:
Favorite character: Hm. Aki and abjorn come to mind first... steinarr is very fun and interesting as a character :)
Shortlist of favorite/memorable scenes: The early 'walk on the ice' battle was very interesting, and set a tone for future combat. i think i partly prefer the lower biggaton level fights at the start in general, but it also serves as a good comparison of just how much more powerful everyone is now. Also the casual "...is that guy dead? did Stigr just kill a dude?" was very good for setting narrative tone and stakes.
The stalemate against the Knight during the raid was very fun and a good character moment.
the trip to the afterlife to rescue aki was very...ah shit whats the word... its in the same ballpark as 'thematic', positive connotations, can't think of the term atm i'm sleepy :p

And the big "thoughts on the system" bit...
-narratively: its a fascinating cultivation system, both the 'fake' one and the true norse one. very unique, but also feels very grounded in the culture, even if i can only go by vibes on that one since *i* know little about said culture and mythology and whatnot :p Likewise, the little we've learned about other cultivation systems is great, and while the terminology occasionally is hard to keep straight, it again adds a lot of flavor
-mechanically: well. i love the premise of exploring and discovering a new cultivation system, but i think that while thats a major strength of this quest, its rather hamstrung by the fact that sometimes it feels like (at least from where i am) the "common" cultivation system is at least as opaque as the 'true'/hidden one. Things that seem to be pretty standard in universe, or uncommon but within the wheelhouse of, say, sten, often feel at least as mysterious as the minutia of Saga Establishment, especially once you add in the effects of people buying out of universe hints for the latter with reward dice, but either not doing so, or not knowing enough *to* do so, for the former. Narratively, it can (in the worst cases) make Halla feel less like a determined trailblazer setting out to forge and establish a new path and more like she's an isekai discovering One Trick That Doctors hate out of ignorance. The research dice/action system is... well, part of it is probably the overall "the training plans look like hell" issue, alongside "ah so. most people dont use dozens of tricks. we are Tricks Georg, and our training is rather fucked up looking as such". but also, like i said, it feels weird to have so much of the "braving the mines of the Enemy to unearth the true secrets of cultivation" research sit alongside much more...prosaic issues that seem like in universe they should be much simpler.

On a sort of half mechanics and half narrative issue. Between runes and the various training tools we've been picking up, and some similar things, it's starting to feel like there's tons of low investment power multipliers in the setting, but that they're not treated like that in setting. I have more thoughts on that but its late and my thoughts don't wish to be wrangled :p
Overall, really like this quest, not sure i could see myself getting invested in it as a *player* rather than a reader unless there was a general cleanup of the mechanics--theres a lot of cruft thats built up, and a number of things you've (understandably) had to tweak as the system saw actual use and ran into the actual events of the story, and i think its become something of a weight around your neck in producing an otherwise great story. I'll try and pin some more thoughts down...hopefully tomorrow, but i have several one shot ideas percolating in my brain that i want to get at least started before i forget them :p

For now, i'll leave you all with my calling card of a diffchecker
www.diffchecker.com

Norse Char Sheet 23/07/10 to 23/07/18 - Diff Checker

Norse Char Sheet 23/07/10 to 23/07/18 - [QUOTE="Imperial Fister, post: 26776304, member: 50146"] [Halla Skyfire] Endurance: (13/13) | Frenzy
(also, one thing i noticed making that...when did we go from 18 to 37 odr for the hearthroot...did i miss something?)
 
Hey Blackhand,

1) Could I develop Finales based on my Hugareida?

Hey Halla,

1) Have you found yourself able to do things with your Hugareida at your deeper level of comprehension that you just couldn't at a lower comprehension (Ignition V vs Ignition I, Standstill V vs Standstill I, etc)
2) Are you able to do the Fire-bomb Strike trick using the Sword Strike of your Sword Hugareida?
3) Can you make your Sword Hugareida do the Leaping-Cleave Strike, like, by itself and not with you attached?
 
Tbh the main thing i'm seeing from these fights is that halla has a very deep bag of ok tricks, but she is falling behind on raw stats. Feels like every major fight for quite a bit has seen us outclassed via people specializing rather than going our jack of trades route. I think we kinda need to start being more focused with our dice or we'll just get killed or eat some big nid when people start outscaling us too hard.
 
On a sort of half mechanics and half narrative issue. Between runes and the various training tools we've been picking up, and some similar things, it's starting to feel like there's tons of low investment power multipliers in the setting, but that they're not treated like that in setting. I have more thoughts on that but its late and my thoughts don't wish to be wrangled :p

Halla's ability to create items of above Quality 5 is explicitly locked behind Forgefire. Her ability to do that with Runes is locked behind that, high Artcraft skill, good tools (which you can make if you have Forgefire but only with high Houscraft and the Tools Skill-Trick), and the Imaging Skill-Trick. Making runed items good enough to provide Training Items (which is probably, like, Quality 7 at a minimum based on our own rolls on at least either the item or the runes) is actually hard locked behind some fairly stringent requirements.

I mean, conservatively, to get the ability to get 7 success levels, even with the Tools Halla has, you need to average 16 successes on your dice, so you need, like, Forgefire 4 and an 18 die dice pool for that...which is, like, 8 each in Hugr and Artcraft (or the crafting skill for the item). Halla gets by with less only because Born With A Hammer In Hand is effectively +5 successes and thus the equivalent of, like, 7-8 extra dice. Being a good enough runecrafter to make items like this is hard.

Runes in general are a little more accessible, but we've also seen those in use pretty regularly.

There are definitely some mechanical issues and the lack of information on the 'public' cultivation system has been a bit lacking at times, but I don't think there have been a lot of worldbuilding errors like this would be.

(also, one thing i noticed making that...when did we go from 18 to 37 odr for the hearthroot...did i miss something?)

This is a typo. It got fixed at one point but appears to have reverted.

Tbh the main thing i'm seeing from these fights is that halla has a very deep bag of ok tricks, but she is falling behind on raw stats. Feels like every major fight for quite a bit has seen us outclassed via people specializing rather than going our jack of trades route. I think we kinda need to start being more focused with our dice or we'll just get killed or eat some big nid when people start outscaling us too hard.

I mean, the plan is to put a minimum of 40d (after the doubling) into stats every turn going forward for quite a while. I expect we'll hit Fylgja 7, Hamr 8, and Hugr 8 within the next year.
 
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Admittedly Abjorn ran a build that basically hard-countered Halla, featuring:

1) Abjorn
2) Glima-Based Contested Movement (like the build I was talking about lol)
3) A strong DR-based build (probably 4x DR + 2x DR multiplier)

Having said that, we kind of need our own HAXOR cheats in combat. Or, more specifically speaking, more of them. Dice-Adders, Dice Multipliers, Dice-Subsitution tricks..
 
Admittedly Abjorn ran a build that basically hard-countered Halla, featuring:

1) Abjorn
2) Glima-Based Contested Movement (like the build I was talking about lol)
3) A strong DR-based build (probably 4x DR + 2x DR multiplier)

He also specifically picked stuff to counter us, particularly point #3, and while we tried to do the same, we didn't know the extent of his DR so he did it better.

Having said that, we kind of need our own HAXOR cheats in combat. Or, more specifically speaking, more of them. Dice-Adders, Dice Multipliers, Dice-Subsitution tricks..

Generally agreed. Do you have any specific ideas in mind?
 
Generally agreed. Do you have any specific ideas in mind?
The big breakpoint is probably Fylgja 7, but these are what I would like us to get:

1) I think Contested-Movement Stoker-State Counterattack Abuse has real potential, but it can still get out-diced.
a) I think a Standstill-Based Finale would be extremely good for when/if we want to end a fight nonlethally. Those are coming up more often nowadays.
2) Possibly get some Combat Skills/Martial Styles to 6/7 and see if there's sweet stuff there we can nab there.
3) There's probably a dice-adder trick somewhere in the combat skills which is basically 'Add base dice from this combat skill to your attacks' which would definitely encourage specialization. - Steinarr might have something like this.
4) See if we can combine the 'Persist' nature of a weapon Hugareida to effective 'fuse' a weapon Hugareida over our regular weapon for extra dice per attack/defence - Steinarr might have something like this. It's worth noting he didn't use his Sword Hugareida (which he should have, unless he was using it for something else more important, like extra Orthsirr-less dice).

Based on Abjorn, our current big HAXOR cheat is 'I have more Hugareidas memorized than you have Hugareida tricks, now get rekt'
 
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The big breakpoint is probably Fylgja 7, but these are what I would like us to get:

Fylgja 7 should hopefully be sweet, yeah. I can think of a few excellent options, but we'll see what we get in terms of possibilities.

1) I think Contested-Movement Counterattack Abuse has real potential, but it can still get out-diced.
a) I think a Standstill-Based Finale would be extremely good for when/if we want to end a fight nonlethally. Those are coming up more often nowadays.

I'm skeptical there are non-Martial Style finales based on how we got Flame-Tending Blade (we were basically trying to make an Ignition Finale...for it to make a Martial Style Finale I think Hugareida-based ones need to not exist).

2) Possibly get some Combat Skills/Martial Styles to 6/7 and see if there's sweet stuff there we can nab there.

We're getting Stoker State there eventually, but I think its progression every odd level is all it gets there, though I could be wrong. Skills might have something, but it'll probably be a little while until we get those to the requisite level.

3) There's probably a dice-adder trick somewhere in the combat skills which is basically 'Add base dice from this combat skill to your attacks' which would definitely encourage specialization. - Steinarr might have something like this.
4) See if we can combine the 'Persist' nature of a weapon Hugareida to effective 'fuse' a weapon Hugareida over our regular weapon for extra dice per attack/defence - Steinarr might have something like this. It's worth noting he didn't use his Sword Hugareida (which he should have, unless he was using it for something else more important, like extra Orthsirr-less dice).

I'm skeptical these exist for balance reasons (though I could be wrong) and they aren't needed to explain Steinarr. Assuming he was adding Sharpen x6 and 4 Stoker Dice to each attack, he would've been rolling 17d6 per attack, upping him to 34d6 after doubling and costing him exactly 6 Orthstirr. 34d6 is just about right for most of his rolls. If we could get these it'd be nice, but I'm dubious.

Based on Abjorn, our current big HAXOR cheat is 'I have more Hugareidas memorized than you have Hugareida tricks, now get rekt'

That and Contested Movement, yeah. Puncture seems standard, so that's not really a cheat, and while Punching Up is great I don't think it counts as a cheat either. My personal hope is we can get something (possibly something Frenzy-based) that works like Contested Movement, but by outthinking our opponent and makes the attack/counterattack a Hugr contest (or Tactics contest) rather than a Hamr one. That's a contest we're a lot more likely to win, especially long term, I think.
 
I'm skeptical these exist for balance reasons (though I could be wrong) and they aren't needed to explain Steinarr. Assuming he was adding Sharpen x6 and 4 Stoker Dice to each attack, he would've been rolling 17d6 per attack, upping him to 34d6 after doubling and costing him exactly 6 Orthstirr. 34d6 is just about right for most of his rolls. If we could get these it'd be nice, but I'm dubious.
Steinarr rolled..

299 (Reinforced Trick Defence), 154 (Sharpened Trick Attack), 150 (Sharpened Attack), 152 (Reinforced Defence), 148 (Sharpened Attack), 108 (Sharpened Attack).

Even with a doubling, it would be tough to explain the first two Sharpened Attacks.
 
Steinarr rolled..

299 (Reinforced Trick Defence), 154 (Sharpened Trick Attack), 150 (Sharpened Attack), 152 (Reinforced Defence), 148 (Sharpened Attack), 108 (Sharpened Attack).

Even with a doubling, it would be tough to explain the first two Sharpened Attacks.

I mean, they'd be high rolls for 17d6, but that many dice can roll up to 102 (and thus 204 with doubling). The average may be only 119, but with only three rolls, a few rolls being high isn't that weird.

He could also easily have another die or three from Shapeshifting, potentially. With 3 more dice, his average ups to 140 and it becomes the 108 which is unusually low. That seems more likely than an unknown Trick that adds dice to all attacks or something.
 
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Steinarr rolled..

299 (Reinforced Trick Defence), 154 (Sharpened Trick Attack), 150 (Sharpened Attack), 152 (Reinforced Defence), 148 (Sharpened Attack), 108 (Sharpened Attack).

Even with a doubling, it would be tough to explain the first two Sharpened Attacks.
Steinarr also has 20 other matial arts styles higher than ours, so one of those adding dice to his main strategy seems plausible.
 
So Abjorn has Fang, I wonder what bonuses does it provide him. He's too talented at Glima to not be taught Fang.

We got his character sheet, so we know he has Glima 7 and Fang 4. Which makes his 163 on the wrestling counterattack make sense since he would've been rolling 43d6 on it. Dunno what it gives him, though. Or if he can teach it to us...we'd obviously like to learn it if we could.

I do suspect his wrestling counter is Fang-based, but that's just a suspicion.
 
Locking it to not the improved version seems ideal, honestly, if 1d does that we should probably leave it at that. I think, if we're just subtracting successes, we need more like 2d for that, but locking things out seems to work mostly by not having them rolled for in the first place (they go to the end of the list, which effectively removes them). That function might work on Bloodlust as well, which is why I asked.
Well, @Toboe did say add reward dice, not add all/two reward dice. Would be worth double checking just to be sure.
Steinarr also has 20 other matial arts styles higher than ours, so one of those adding dice to his main strategy seems plausible.
Possibly, especially at Rank 7.
 
Well, @Toboe did say add reward dice, not add all/two reward dice. Would be worth double checking just to be sure.

Dice is the plural. If he wants to drop it to 1, that's totally fine, but 'I'll add my Reward Dice' when you have only two dice means you add two dice, and I have to go with what's said absent clarification.

Possibly, especially at Rank 7.

He only had Stoker State 7 and his other styles at 6 on his sheet. I doubt he has other styles any higher than that, though despite not being much of a wrestler, I'm sure he has at least Glima 4 or so. But he'd only need a couple of dice to make his attacks work out mathematically, so it could still easily be Style-based.
 
He only had Stoker State 7 and his other styles at 6 on his sheet. I doubt he has other styles any higher than that, though despite not being much of a wrestler, I'm sure he has at least Glima 4 or so. But he'd only need a couple of dice to make his attacks work out mathematically, so it could still easily be Style-based.
IIRC you can only add that base attack dice to normal attacks absent special rules.

Of course Steinarr could have been doing uneven Sharpens or somesuch.
 
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