TBF, Mags, you have been doing a lot of the heavylifting for the quest, so this will be in good hands.
To be clear to everyone, this is just me burning out on imagination of the quest, since my muse has been hitting me over the head a lot with so many different ideas that I just can't find myself too interested in this.
I'll still hang out here, though, since this still does have a sepcial place in my heart.
I'd like to thank you all for making this a wonderful experience while it lasted.
I'd also like to thank @Magoose, @Fluffy_serpent, and @Martin Noctis for doing so much to help prepare and write this quest. I couldn't have done it without you all.
So since we own Hannah Barbara are we still doing Super Friends for DC? I know they were worried about us trying to stop it when we originally bought it but is it still running? I wonder if there are any changes from OTL besides an animation quality improvement?
Aquaman Directed by: George Miller
Written by: Peter David
Produced by: Kathleen Kennedy
Production and Distribution Studio: Columbia Pictures
Starring: Patrick Swayze (Arthur Curry/Aquaman), Kirstie Alley (Princess Mera), Keith David (David Kane/Black Manta), Liam Neeson (King Orm Marius/Ocean Master), Martin Kove (King Nereus), John Rhys-Davies (Nuidis Vulko), Julie Christie (Atlanna), James Garner (Thomas Curry), Danny Glover (Jesse Kane), Marc Singer (Captain Murk) and Julie Andrews (The Karathen)
Budget: $50,000,000 Domestic: $271,301,753 International: $73,933,482
Total Gross: $345,235,235
VHS Sales: $845,223,235
Huh, so Columbia actually managed to release their next DC film while you were out. It had actually escaped your mind during your entire production of the film, and even when you came back you had never once given it a thought. It had not been until Alan had called you to ask for a timeline for the production of the third Batman film that you'd actually remembered that those were a thing.
Heck, they'd even chosen a director that you should have been aware of. You'd worked with George Miller before, and you were certain that Mike was still trying to convince him to make a third part for his Mad Max franchise. That somehow both of you missed he'd signed with Columbia in order to make this film was... well a bit of lack of foresight, but also a bit of egg in Mike's face. You just know he's going to be redoubling his efforts to get him to be an exclusive for Lucasfilms.
It was a bit embarrassing to be honest, and even more so when you then had to ask Alan as to what character they'd used for said movie.
And you're not going to lie; Aquaman was not the kind of hero you'd have thought to use for the big screen. You may have only a passing knowledge of most of the heroes from the DC franchise, most of it because of your research into the character of Bruce Wayne and his interactions with the rest of the Justice League. But even you understand that Aquaman was... well, to put it charitably, a bit of a joke when compared to the rest of the big hitters of the Justice League.
You had Superman, the Hero of heroes. Batman, the representative of Mankind's apex and the world's greatest detective. Wonder Woman, the amazon fighter who could match Superman blow for blow. The Flash, the fastest man alive. Green Lantern, whose power was only limited by his willpower, his imagination... and the color yellow (seriously?). There were more members of the League of course, but this alone should show that for the organization, there was a clear power level that was to be expected.
And Aquaman's power, to put it bluntly, was that he could speak to fish.
Yeah, not that impressive when looking at it.
Sure, many of his comics made sure to show him facing against credible threats and villains, like Black Manta and Ocean Master. There were certainly fun stories that would show his misadventures and occurrences as he tried to adapt to both the underwater world and the surface world that he helped to defend. Many a time there were just funny hijinks that one could just relax, have a good chuckle about it, and then just forget about them. Even those old Super Friends cartoon never used him as much as they did the other more recognizable heroes.
And that show made sure to include even the odd ones as well... seriously, El Dorado? who the heck was he supposed to appeal?
Regardless, the point was that Aquaman as a hero would have a steep hill to climb if he wanted to appeal to the audience beyond just his fans. This would be a momentous occasion for Kathleen as well, who was now taking over the production for most of the films in the "DCU" as this was the first hero not part of the DC Trinity that would be adapted for the big screen. There was no need to mention that the pressure for it to succeed would be greater than others, with most of the writers not having an idea on just what to do with the character.
But in the end, you should not have been concerned, as it seemed that they'd decided to try the same method as when the first Batman's film was produced; get a talented comic writer to try for a treatment, and see the magic flow.
Such was the case when Peter David, late from Marvel, and recent DC hire, came to them with his newest idea for the character. David had been one of the newest writers in Marvel who had been pushing for more stories that would buckle away the status quo and the specter of the Comic Codes Authority. Years after marvel had proven how toothless it truly was, DC still paid some lip service to it, and David was determined to move as far away as possible with a double attack; a re-invention of Aquaman both in print and in the movie.
But looking at the story, the overall design, and comparing it to the old Aquaman comics that you'd once bought for Mary (which were still in mint condition) you can only say... are they even the same character!? Just... What the heck?! How did the goofy and fun orange shirted Aquaman turned into a long haired, dirty blond, bearded and tattooed, gritty version of himself that, and you hate admit this, looks so goddamn cool on screen! Patrick Swayze was supposed to still be an up and coming actor, yet he managed to embody the character and make it his own so seamlessly!
Not to mention how the entire premise had him reject his Atlantean heritage from the beginning, living as just another lighthouse keeper with his father and using his abilities to face against underwater pirates...Underwater Pirates! Using a submarine, and his first confrontation against them causing the rise of one of his deadliest foes, Black Manta, as he looks for Aquaman to get revenge for the death of his father at his hands. You think this is the first time you've seen how a hero caused the rise of his villain on screen. And damn, but it made for a perfect theme and arc through the movie, as Aquaman has to take on the responsibility of his actions, understanding that it was his callousness and apathy at that moment that would then cause the near destruction of Atlantis and the surface civilizations.
Yeah, because apparently there is also a fight caused by Prince Orm, aka Ocean Master, who is Aquaman's half sibling in this movie, and preparing to launch an invasion on the surface because of the constant pollution of the seas, and because Black Manta attacked them thinking that Aquaman was with them as well.
From there it's a classical hero's journey, where Aquaman has to rediscover his Atlantean origins and learn to accept himself as he is, with Princess Mera at his side serving as a partner/mentor, during his travels. Finding out about his mother and the truth of her disappearance, the actions of Orm who can be seen as not entirely malicious as he does have a point about the surface civilizations and their callous disregard for the oceans where they live. But above all, the confrontation between Black Manta and Aquaman which while at first would seem to be just a fight before the main villain, in the end has more significance than one would think.
After all, Black Manta was a villain created by Aquaman's actions, which then led to Orm having the chance to begin his crusade against humanity. Aquaman thus learns about being responsible for his actions where before he would be living a life of apathy without any trials nor responsibilities. Only by wholly accepting them can he manage to gain the support of the Karathen; the giant mythical sea monster who guards the trident of Atlan, which gives Aquaman the legitimacy to face Ord for a second time, besting him in a final climactic battle in the waves.
You knew Miller had the talent to bring to life worlds that were just as fantastical as they were relatable, mixing fantasy and reality together as to make it seamless, along with giving depth to many of the characters that would allow for one to relate and sympathize, but also to despise and hate them despite their understanding. In this film however, he went above and beyond, with Black Manta and Prince Orm being the best examples of understanding, perhaps even sympathizing, but always opposing them and despising them for their actions.
His work on this film also proved what you'd suspected a while ago; he was not beholden to a single genre like many other directors usually were, but instead he was more like Scorsese, someone who could switch to different genres and give them a try, while keeping to the quality and entertainment of the movie. His work with the principal characters of the movie has the same attention to detail that you found in his previous Mad Max entries.
After all, for all that we might feel sorry for Black Manta, one must never forget how he and his father were pirates. How many people did they consign to the depth of the ocean, or killed in their quest for loot and plunder? As for Prince Orm, he might want to protect Atlantis and his citizens, but for that he is very willing to commit genocide of an entire civilization and race to achieve his aims.
Both Keith David and Liam Neeson were perfect for these roles as well; the former once more expanding on his repertoire and giving a truly chilling performance as the man who lives for nothing but vengeance, gets so close to it by sacrificing everything that would make him human, yet in the end fails, making every single sacrifice worthless in the end. Whereas Liam Neeson, he gave Prince Orm what many comics before had not been able to; a degree of gravitas and respect, making him more of an actual threat while wearing a costume that many would have probably found ridiculous, yet on him, and with his performance, he managed to look regal and imposing.
Then there's Kirstie Alley as Princess Mera, who managed to keep with the comic interpretation, but also gave her a more adventurous spirit. Her banter with Kurt truly gave mare insight into her character, as a sheltered princess that nonetheless was determined to help her people, and it was that devotion that managed to impress Aquaman enough to finally step up to reclaim his birthright. The film does not have them end together, but it did set the foundation, teasing the promise of them entering a relationship in the future.
And both James Garner and Julie Christie have managed to bring to life the parents of Aquaman, and though their roles were small, each of them brought a warmth and love for Aquaman, as well as the bond that they once shared when they managed to be together, that you can understand just how was it possible for an Atlantean and a surface dweller to find love together.. and not forget each other, even with all the years that have passed.
You'd be remiss if you did not mention how Danny Glover managed to also, in some small way, humanize Black Manta as his father before it could become what it was. Sure, they were both villains in the end, but there is no question that they did care for each other, bringing a level of complexity that the character in comics did not possess, thus elevating him and his journey of vengeance beyond a one-dimensional villain toa thoroughly tridimensional character that moves the plot, not only letting it control him.
Of course, there are the comic purists who feel this shift was too radical, and came out of nowhere, but most of the mainstream audience seems to have latched on to this version of Aquaman, creating an increase of sales for the comic, which although it has not kept up with the movie's changes, it has managed to keep a more somber tone that at the very least has straddled the line between the old and new Aquaman that audiences want.
There is talk about David taking over the Aquaman title though, a big change that is supposed to take place around 85'. The big DC event that should allow for the final re-structuring of the entire DC Multiverse.
Should Marvel try for something like that? Eh, you'll leave that to the artists and writers.
But yeah, it was a really good film, both you and the audience could agree on that. Sure, it might not be as groundbreaking as Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman have been, but it still managed to bring to life one of DC's characters, reinvent him while keeping to his core abilities and powers, and give an interpretation that truly resonated with most of the fans and audience. That he was even cooler that one would expect is going to give DC ideas, and you're not just imagining it. Already there seems to be rumors about DC thinking on doing the "Aquaman Treatment" to other characters in their line... which luckily for you is not your business.
The music also enhanced the experience, going with more of a hard rock style, with guitar riffs during the battles that pumped the adrenaline, keeping you excited and on your seat whenever the time came. the entire soundtrack of the film became famous after it was revealed at the end how it was the second time that Queen had been hired to write the music and songs of an entire film since Flash Gordon. Brian May, the lead guitarist himself, composed at least a third of them, and his amazing guitar skills are on full display during the entire film.
The box office in America was truly staggering, but then again despite its status as one of the least powerful members of the league, Aquaman has been known for decades already, add to it its new look and of course the entire nation would come to see the film. Perhaps not as much as the trinity, but respectable enough for many to surely remember the film. If not for that then at least for the post-credit scene where there is a shot of Gotham, before it moves to a gang meeting where a bank robbery is being planned... before the camera slowly moves to the man in charge, looking at the back of his suit, his green hair, before cutting off, as a mad laugh is heard at the end.
Yeah, you can see why they wanted to speak to you so soon. Hinting at the Joker for the third Batman film would really hype it up.
Unfortunately, the international community was no that interested in the character, mostly as Aquaman has not made the impact around the world as one would expect. Latin America loved it though, as they loved the character somehow, Australia also made sure to support the film as it was another big success from their own director, while the South East Asian countries enjoyed seeing a film that had a character that could swim and breathe underwater. So, at least part of the world will see a big increase in DC sales for the character if they're smart enough to catch the opportunity.
VHS sales exploded however, thanks in part to the desire for all DC fans to have at least a copy of what many are seeing as one complete saga for the movie theaters, and others because the effects are just that good. The chance to own it and seeing them in one's own TV would be a bargain in their opinion, so if anything, Alan came out winning with this film near a billion if counting the sales for those tapes as well. He even decided to ape Mike's own marketing strategy and sell bundles in order to increase the sales for the other films in the DC library at the moment.
Not to shabby indeed.
Critics were middling to good, praising the film for its acting, the bold new direction they decided to take the character on, etc. yet there were still those who held on as making movies based on comics to be nothing but low brow entertainment, not seeing the technical skill or development in storytelling that it can bring to the table. Surely, making an entire film that takes place both above and underwater, with scenes that ranged from Italy, to pirate ships in the Caribbean, along with the technical prowess to bring the Karathen to life must have taken a great deal of skill and innovation, something that was only possible thanks to your ILM wizards that Alex made sure to hire beforehand.
You don't know if to feel pride in how, even now, other studios recognize that your practical and special effects are second to none... or rage and anger at how you could have used them had you not decided to ignore Steven's advice and try to film in actual water instead of sets specially prepared for it. So many months, so many sets, so many ships and scenes that could have been saved had you just listened to the expert instead of your own ego in thinking you could do better...
But you digress.
With your absence, Alan had to deal with Mike for the best of the best from IML, and from the faraway, traumatized look on his face when you went to visit him (along with Mike's happy, near maniacal laughter when you asked him about it), you can guess how it all went.
...At least the effects look great?
The success of Aquaman has kept the pressure strong for the DCU, with now Marvel and DC fans arguing over which f their respective franchises are doing a better job at adapting the comics into new mediums, and while Marvel can proudly boast of having some of the best TV Adaptation both in live action and animation, DC can easily counter with their movies being among the best and most beloved in America, with their heroes becoming household names, even more than what they currently were.
It has not helped that Marvel and Lucasfilms keeps on receiving letters asking as to when will Lucasfilms will be adapting the heroes for the big screen, some of them outright accusing you of favoring the DC characters just because you played the Batman in the films. Thankfully Stan has managed to keep them at bay, promising them the movies that would titillate them when the time was right. Enough to keep them placated for now.
Your talk with Alan however did not go as smoothly. He wanted the third batman movie, and you wanted to take a bit of a break to be with your family. In the end, both agreed that at the very least the movie had to be ready to be released in 86', meaning that you had a couple of years...more than enough time in your opinion.
and another victory for the DCU we better make sure the MCU is good or Bruce will be accused of being a DC fan until the day he dies, also now that I mention it we should start the MCU in the mid 90s not only so the SFX can advance as much as possible but also to avoid a superhero oversaturation
EDIT: Also are there any plans for a superhero RPG? because that would make good money
I was going to go with him, but then I remembered that I'd casted him as one of the identities that Ares would have used in Wonder Woman, and I'm really trying to avoid using the same actors twice in the DCU.
I even asked Magoose if Swayze had accepted the offer to play Ares, but I received no reply.
I was going to go with him, but then I remembered that I'd casted him as one of the identities that Ares would have used in Wonder Woman, and I'm really trying to avoid using the same actors twice in the DCU.
I even asked Magoose if Swayze had accepted the offer to play Ares, but I received no reply.
Fair enough. Though if you need help with DCU casting in the future, I've actually been crafting and casting an 80s DCU for a timeline I've been thinking about writing for a while now. I actually intended to share it with you once I had completed my casting since I wanted to get your opinion on it. It'd be no trouble at all to help you find alternative casting choices if you ever feel like you need the extra help.
Fair enough. Though if you need help with DCU casting in the future, I've actually been crafting and casting an 80s DCU for a timeline I've been thinking about writing for a while now. I actually intended to share it with you once I had completed my casting since I wanted to get your opinion on it. It'd be no trouble at all to help you find alternative casting choices if you ever feel like you need the extra help.
Sure, that'd be nice. I mean, there's still the other Pitches in the Apocrypha (Wonder Woman 1984, The Flash, Batman: The Dark Knight and Martian Manhunter). So, if you like, you can give me your opinion on the casting there. Just PM me so that we can talk about it.
Sure, that'd be nice. I mean, there's still the other Pitches in the Apocrypha (Wonder Woman 1984, The Flash, Batman: The Dark Knight and Martian Manhunter). So, if you like, you can give me your opinion on the casting there. Just PM me so that we can talk about it.
Side note, since it was briefly mentioned in the Aquaman post, but do you remember if our deal with Columbia was that we wouldn't make Marvel movies at all to compete with the DCU and just stick to TV, or that we wouldn't make a movie MCU and just stick to television for the time being? Cause if we could make Marvel movies, just not a universe, then we should absolutely do an X-Men trilogy. Maybe some Fantastic 4 movies too.
Side note, since it was briefly mentioned in the Aquaman post, but do you remember if our deal with Columbia was that we wouldn't make Marvel movies at all to compete with the DCU and just stick to TV, or that we wouldn't make a movie MCU and just stick to television for the time being? Cause if we could make Marvel movies, just not a universe, then we should absolutely do an X-Men trilogy. Maybe some Fantastic 4 movies too.
If I recall correctly, our deal with Columbia did not include Marvel Movies at all, instead it weas about bruce acting and directing for the Batman movies, as well as the payment for appearances as Batman in the other DC movies (mostly for cameo reasons and for the final Justice League movie). The reason we are not makeing Marvel movies at the time is because we woudl then bemaking the same mistake as Warner did in OTL; trygin to catch up to the already established movie universe, and competing for the audience who is already invested in them.
Better to wait a few years for the hype to die down (since Alan has no plans to go beyond a First phase) and then we can wow the world with our Infinity Saga.
And yeah, we can (and should) have X-Men and Fantastic Four movies. Ghost Rider, and Blade should also be included as well, but also make sure to remember that we don't have to make them interact all the time, nor do we ned the audience t wtch them all to enjoy a single one on its own.
If I recall correctly, our deal with Columbia did not include Marvel Movies at all, instead it weas about bruce acting and directing for the Batman movies, as well as the payment for appearances as Batman in the other DC movies (mostly for cameo reasons and for the final Justice League movie). The reason we are not makeing Marvel movies at the time is because we woudl then bemaking the same mistake as Warner did in OTL; trygin to catch up to the already established movie universe, and competing for the audience who is already invested in them.
Better to wait a few years for the hype to die down (since Alan has no plans to go beyond a First phase) and then we can wow the world with our Infinity Saga.
Are you sure? I could have sworn we made an unofficial deal where we wouldn't make Marvel movies to compete with DC and just stick with Marvel TV. Also, I reread the Wonder Woman sidestory, and it says that Alan Rickman was Ares.
Are you sure? I could have sworn we made an unofficial deal where we wouldn't make Marvel movies to compete with DC and just stick with Marvel TV. Also, I reread the Wonder Woman sidestory, and it says that Alan Rickman was Ares.
Even if we can do movies we should wait for the DCU to wait not only to avoid competing with our allies but also to avoid an oversaturation of the superhero genre
Even if we can do movies we should wait for the DCU to wait not only to avoid competing with our allies but also to avoid an oversaturation of the superhero genre
Superhero oversaturation doesn't exist. That's an excuse that studio execs use to explain the utter mismanagement of their media projects. The truth of the matter is that their work is just shit, and they keep approaching superheroes with the wrong mindset. They act like superheroes are a genre when they're actually an aesthetic. You can have all kinds of films and genres with superheroes, they just don't do it because they're corpo as fuck, prone to rigid thinking, and are allergic to common sense.
Superhero oversaturation doesn't exist. That's an excuse that studio execs use to explain the utter mismanagement of their media projects. The truth of the matter is that their work is just shit, and they keep approaching superheroes with the wrong mindset. They act like superheroes are a genre when they're actually an aesthetic. You can have all kinds of films and genres with superheroes, they just don't do it because they're corpo as fuck and are allergic to common sense.
I agree with this, but at the same time I believe that putting in our movies and competing with an already established Cinematic Universe when you know that it will end in a few years, and then you can have the filed all to yourself would be a bit of a waste. Now, if we did not know if DC plans to continue then I'd be all for trying it, but thanks to our alliance with Columbia, we know that it should be ending at the end of the 80s
Which means, we get to have the 90s and 2000s as our new playground when it comes to the MCU.
I agree with this, but at the same time I believe that putting in our movies and competing with an already established Cinematic Universe when you know that it will end in a few years, and then you can have the filed all to yourself would be a bit of a waste. Now, if we did not know if DC plans to continue then I'd be all for trying it, but thanks to our alliance with Columbia, we know that it should be ending at the end of the 80s
Which means, we get to have the 90s and 2000s as our new playground when it comes to the MCU.
😔 And I had such a good X-Men cast lined up for the 80s... Oh well! Still though, I think we should do at least some kind of Marvel film in the 80s that we can keep isolated in its own bubble, just to help sate some of the hunger for it. Maybe Spiderman? Or maybe a more unorthodox property? Y'all would have to chip in for that though since I'm more familiar with DC and DC properties than I am Marvel.
Now, if we did not know if DC plans to continue then I'd be all for trying it, but thanks to our alliance with Columbia, we know that it should be ending at the end of the 80s
Which means, we get to have the 90s and 2000s as our new playground when it comes to the MCU.
Also, I do think it's worth noting that although it's a few years in-game time, that can translate to quite a bit of time outside of the quest. We're a little over a decade in from when we started and we're over 1000 pages and it's been... what, roughly 2 years or so? Another decade of time to wait before doing Marvel movies might be asking for a bit more than you think. Something to consider.
Nova technically existed at this time, but Marv Wolfman wouldn't actually bring him into Marvel until... I think it was '87. Not sure if "The Man Called Nova" was especially different from the Nova we have now, though.
Edit: Nevermind, I'm a crazy person. Nova was made officially in '76. This is why I'm a DC person, lol 😅
Also, I do think it's worth noting that although it's a few years in-game time, that can translate to quite a bit of time outside of the quest. We're a little over a decade in from when we started and we're over 1000 pages and it's been... what, roughly 2 years or so? Something to consider.
As for movies that we can do... How about Werewolf by Night?
Or perhaps Ghost Rider? I think I can have a Pitch for it where Johnny Blaze faces off against Darkhold Dwarf and his contractor, the Scarecrow, in order to stop him from opening the dimensional barriers for Mephisto to invade the Earth.
Or perhaps we could try and adapt a Namor film. I wonder if Namor: The Depths would work there?
