So, just wanted to say I am very impressed & intrigued by this lets watch & really need to go through the whole thing at some point. For now though I kind of wanted to weigh in on the Penny Ponderings with a perhaps alternative take.
Namely, it doesn't bother me.
Sacrilege, I know, but the thing is while Penny is not in my top four, she is a character I both like & find genuinely interesting. Heck, I have a video heavily focused on Penny & Ruby's characters & relationship being much deeper & more interesting than the UWU beans I find in most FNDM. She's a great character but that's also why it doesn't bother me as I feel it works for the story & made sense for the character.
But first, some house cleaning.
House Cleaning - They made her human?
As others noted, this is something some take issue with for a few different reasons. As I understand it the main issues people tend to have with V8's handling of Penny outside her death was that they made her 'human' in place of keeping her synthetic body. As others also noted, I am unsure if she even was human and not just another kind of synthetic entity, but that's rather besides the point.
House Cleaning - Thematic Representation?
The other thing people take issue with this is that they regard it as a form of ableism to make her human. I always feel its integral to note that while many in FNDM understandably took Penny's robotic nature as meaning in a Real World AU, she might be using prosthetic limbs. There is no evidence as far as I am aware that the writers intended her to be considered analogous to a disabled person or to thematically represent disabled people.
Thus, while its a fine and fun headcanon, I am not sure one can argue it was some sort of deliberate offence or act of ableism on the creators part if they never even conceived of Penny as such. This wouldn't be like becoming aware of queer subtext, ship teasing then killing one of them off and putting the other in a straight relationship. As far as I can tell their thematic framing of Penny never shifted and was never explicitly used to draw such comparisons.
House Cleaning - A Reward?
Penny being rewarded with a none robotic body & then dying. We'll discuss the death later but just on the reward angle, I think that is rather iffy. Yes, Penny appreciated not being dead and enjoyed the increased tactile sensations. But we also see how much more fragile and floundering she is with her new form. When Penny fought Cinder last time with Cinder having backup, Penny kicked her ass.
Here, Penny has the support and is barely keeping up. She's in pain, she can't fly easily, she can't use her weapons easily, she has lost tons of functions that were once innate to her very being. Maybe one could argue its like post surgeries fragility or that she'd have grown into it, but as it stands, I don't think the new body was presented as strictly speaking a good thing or a reward. It was a desperate gamble to save her life, nothing more.
Adding onto that, I think people mis-ascribe the source of Penny's angst regarding her mechanical nature. She's shown cheerfully embracing and enjoying many aspects of it all the time. When it becomes an issue for her is when others use it to de-'humanize' her.
Given how quickly Ironwood, the Ace-Ops, Mantle and even just casual conversation could do that on purpose or by accident. I think its less "I hate being a robot" and more, "I hate that people treat me this way because of what I am and its giving me anxiety & or insecurities".
I also think anyone would be a little uncomfy with their body being something someone else can take over and puppet, that's an issue with loss of agency & physical invasiveness & we have Semblances which might not have been able to effect Penny that can do similar things, IE memory erasure & mind control.
House Cleaning - Conclusion
For comparisons sake, if Ruby's essence got moved over to a sort of life sized marionette and she was cool with it because she's still alive & have super flexible joints for wicked cool attacks, but then she he died fighting, I don't think people would regard it as a reward turned sour.
In essence, I think a lot of the stigma comes with people associating tropes & themes to the writers decisions that were not actually in the story & just assuming them present; as opposed to than having textual support & despite CRWBY's efforts to deconstruct tropes & themes in general.
The Main Event:
Moving on to Penny's death, people take issue with quite a few aspects of it but I weirdly feel it all ties together well and think it works on a thematic level. My reason being, that Penny is the other side of the coin whose other half Ironwood and between the pair are the likes of Winter, the Ace-Ops and so on.
What I mean here is that the Atlas arc dealt heavily with the themes of 'de-humanization' of seeing people made unto like objects, mere cogs in a machine that were not expected to think, feel, or heal & have their entire worth judged against an idea or a system & always come up wanting. You don't matter, I don't matter, they don't matter, only what we can accomplish for the worlds, the cause, Atlas, ETC, matters.
Ironwood regards Mantle as a few city blocks, their suffering is at best a theoretical moral burden to him and a political nuisance, nothing more. Winter thinks expressing any emotions or making decisions for herself is a failure and act of disloyalty and is not allowed time to heal after severe injuries but just poured into a mobility mechanism, then thrown back onto the battlefield. Meanwhile the Ace-Ops are not allowed to even conceive of real, deep or genuine emotions or ideas, they have all convinced themselves they don't matter except in how they serve Atlas.
The Happy Huntresses are actually the exception to this because they escaped the coin/system & are dedicated to people, ideals & each other.
Meanwhile, Ironwood is the opposite of Penny, while both still embody the opposite extreme ends of the same spectrum of beliefs.
Both of them talk of or otherwise frame themselves as the one with the duty to save the world, both put themselves under immense and isolating pressure tanks to their respective Atlas's complexes and both default heavily to sacrificing whenever the opportunity or even potential need seems to arise. Both will do whatever it takes for their goals and beliefs.
The difference?
Ironwood sacrifices everyone else for his goals and beliefs, for his idea of what Atlas is, what it means & what its worth.
Penny tries from volume 8 if not earlier, to sacrifice herself because of her goals & beliefs, & what they're worth to her.
She does this so much and so often, that she had to keep being talked out of throwing her life away in the hope that Ironwood, or Salem would calm down and leave them be. She defined her self worth and existence by being out there doing things, hence becoming so saddened when needing to be kept away from the battlefield despite the fact she was both a target and potentially a huge game changer for any of the villains.
Penny has Atlas's ideology of de-humanization and sacrifice every bit as much as Ironwood, but in her mind she's the expendable one, while Ironwood cannot conceive of himself as being expendable, because he has tethered himself to Atlas, which he has tethered to the world.
Here is the thing though.
While Penny's take on this idea is more noble, more charming, more useful it is still part of an incredibly self destructive ideology, one that is of itself rooted in Ozpin's well known Guardian theory. With isolated lone champions serving as paragons of virtue & himself as the main character heroically bearing all the burdens. An ideology we saw sent Pyrrha spiraling, left Ozpin a broken & paranoid wreck & nearly destroyed Ruby.
Penny & Ironwood both fell because both keep trying to sacrifice others (Ironwood) or themselves (Penny) in a bid to accomplish their goals & or otherwise fulfill their designates roles; roles that both only have because of the culture and ideals suffusing Atlas, as reflected by how they are seen in so many other characters and the overarching themes of the Atlas Arc.
Thus, it makes sense character wise and I think it both makes sense thematically for the reasons outlined above & dramatically as this is the darkest moment. But also because if Penny just won, or somehow survived without changing that ideological thinking it'd be implicitly arguing that this was a good way to think and act rather than one that is ultimately self harming.
For comparisons sake, if a show has a good victim who only gets help because their trauma responses are convenient or 'cute' and who never grows out of or overcomes said traumas and the show argues it is meant to represent how best to view escape & recover from abuse. Then that series is inadvertently arguing its better a person stay locked in a traumatized state than actually try to change or grow & that is a story problem.
So, in this regard, Penny surviving would also necessitate her making the decision to prioritize the mission over her self sacrificing tendencies or to otherwise prioritize her own safety (Which she has every right to do given the circumstance). However it would not involve Penny flinging herself into another self sacrificial bout but winning this time, or just being saved again after its happened so many times already.
I hope that, that made sense.
I am essentially saying to keep Penny alive but keep everything else mostly the same, one then throws away the thematic & narrative meaning of the Atlas Arc; or if they want to keep Penny alive, they need to alter the Atlas Arcs themes or the cast & overall story to keep it coherent.
People are obviously free to not be fans of it, I am sad when characters I like die, but I don't view it inherently as a bad writing decision and I hope I have outlined here, exactly why I think that this worked for the Atlas Arc, the series of RWBY and made sense for its characters.
Thanks for reading!
Notes & Speculation:
Now, I don't do much speculating, but given so much of the shows current drama was created as a result of someone wanting a dead loved one back, them returning but it ultimately not being enough to stave off tragedy and self destruction. I feel one can also ague this is meant to serve and tie Ruby & Salem closer together as nominal dramatic foils. This is speculative of course, especially given the nature of death, balance and resurrections in this series is not even close to the hard line some think it is thematically speaking, but I do think that is worth keeping in mind.
I did a tumblr post too, warning for uncensored spoilers there.
Namely, it doesn't bother me.
Sacrilege, I know, but the thing is while Penny is not in my top four, she is a character I both like & find genuinely interesting. Heck, I have a video heavily focused on Penny & Ruby's characters & relationship being much deeper & more interesting than the UWU beans I find in most FNDM. She's a great character but that's also why it doesn't bother me as I feel it works for the story & made sense for the character.
But first, some house cleaning.
House Cleaning - They made her human?
As others noted, this is something some take issue with for a few different reasons. As I understand it the main issues people tend to have with V8's handling of Penny outside her death was that they made her 'human' in place of keeping her synthetic body. As others also noted, I am unsure if she even was human and not just another kind of synthetic entity, but that's rather besides the point.
House Cleaning - Thematic Representation?
The other thing people take issue with this is that they regard it as a form of ableism to make her human. I always feel its integral to note that while many in FNDM understandably took Penny's robotic nature as meaning in a Real World AU, she might be using prosthetic limbs. There is no evidence as far as I am aware that the writers intended her to be considered analogous to a disabled person or to thematically represent disabled people.
Thus, while its a fine and fun headcanon, I am not sure one can argue it was some sort of deliberate offence or act of ableism on the creators part if they never even conceived of Penny as such. This wouldn't be like becoming aware of queer subtext, ship teasing then killing one of them off and putting the other in a straight relationship. As far as I can tell their thematic framing of Penny never shifted and was never explicitly used to draw such comparisons.
House Cleaning - A Reward?
Penny being rewarded with a none robotic body & then dying. We'll discuss the death later but just on the reward angle, I think that is rather iffy. Yes, Penny appreciated not being dead and enjoyed the increased tactile sensations. But we also see how much more fragile and floundering she is with her new form. When Penny fought Cinder last time with Cinder having backup, Penny kicked her ass.
Here, Penny has the support and is barely keeping up. She's in pain, she can't fly easily, she can't use her weapons easily, she has lost tons of functions that were once innate to her very being. Maybe one could argue its like post surgeries fragility or that she'd have grown into it, but as it stands, I don't think the new body was presented as strictly speaking a good thing or a reward. It was a desperate gamble to save her life, nothing more.
Adding onto that, I think people mis-ascribe the source of Penny's angst regarding her mechanical nature. She's shown cheerfully embracing and enjoying many aspects of it all the time. When it becomes an issue for her is when others use it to de-'humanize' her.
Given how quickly Ironwood, the Ace-Ops, Mantle and even just casual conversation could do that on purpose or by accident. I think its less "I hate being a robot" and more, "I hate that people treat me this way because of what I am and its giving me anxiety & or insecurities".
I also think anyone would be a little uncomfy with their body being something someone else can take over and puppet, that's an issue with loss of agency & physical invasiveness & we have Semblances which might not have been able to effect Penny that can do similar things, IE memory erasure & mind control.
House Cleaning - Conclusion
For comparisons sake, if Ruby's essence got moved over to a sort of life sized marionette and she was cool with it because she's still alive & have super flexible joints for wicked cool attacks, but then she he died fighting, I don't think people would regard it as a reward turned sour.
In essence, I think a lot of the stigma comes with people associating tropes & themes to the writers decisions that were not actually in the story & just assuming them present; as opposed to than having textual support & despite CRWBY's efforts to deconstruct tropes & themes in general.
The Main Event:
Moving on to Penny's death, people take issue with quite a few aspects of it but I weirdly feel it all ties together well and think it works on a thematic level. My reason being, that Penny is the other side of the coin whose other half Ironwood and between the pair are the likes of Winter, the Ace-Ops and so on.
What I mean here is that the Atlas arc dealt heavily with the themes of 'de-humanization' of seeing people made unto like objects, mere cogs in a machine that were not expected to think, feel, or heal & have their entire worth judged against an idea or a system & always come up wanting. You don't matter, I don't matter, they don't matter, only what we can accomplish for the worlds, the cause, Atlas, ETC, matters.
Ironwood regards Mantle as a few city blocks, their suffering is at best a theoretical moral burden to him and a political nuisance, nothing more. Winter thinks expressing any emotions or making decisions for herself is a failure and act of disloyalty and is not allowed time to heal after severe injuries but just poured into a mobility mechanism, then thrown back onto the battlefield. Meanwhile the Ace-Ops are not allowed to even conceive of real, deep or genuine emotions or ideas, they have all convinced themselves they don't matter except in how they serve Atlas.
The Happy Huntresses are actually the exception to this because they escaped the coin/system & are dedicated to people, ideals & each other.
Meanwhile, Ironwood is the opposite of Penny, while both still embody the opposite extreme ends of the same spectrum of beliefs.
Both of them talk of or otherwise frame themselves as the one with the duty to save the world, both put themselves under immense and isolating pressure tanks to their respective Atlas's complexes and both default heavily to sacrificing whenever the opportunity or even potential need seems to arise. Both will do whatever it takes for their goals and beliefs.
The difference?
Ironwood sacrifices everyone else for his goals and beliefs, for his idea of what Atlas is, what it means & what its worth.
Penny tries from volume 8 if not earlier, to sacrifice herself because of her goals & beliefs, & what they're worth to her.
She does this so much and so often, that she had to keep being talked out of throwing her life away in the hope that Ironwood, or Salem would calm down and leave them be. She defined her self worth and existence by being out there doing things, hence becoming so saddened when needing to be kept away from the battlefield despite the fact she was both a target and potentially a huge game changer for any of the villains.
Penny has Atlas's ideology of de-humanization and sacrifice every bit as much as Ironwood, but in her mind she's the expendable one, while Ironwood cannot conceive of himself as being expendable, because he has tethered himself to Atlas, which he has tethered to the world.
Here is the thing though.
While Penny's take on this idea is more noble, more charming, more useful it is still part of an incredibly self destructive ideology, one that is of itself rooted in Ozpin's well known Guardian theory. With isolated lone champions serving as paragons of virtue & himself as the main character heroically bearing all the burdens. An ideology we saw sent Pyrrha spiraling, left Ozpin a broken & paranoid wreck & nearly destroyed Ruby.
Penny & Ironwood both fell because both keep trying to sacrifice others (Ironwood) or themselves (Penny) in a bid to accomplish their goals & or otherwise fulfill their designates roles; roles that both only have because of the culture and ideals suffusing Atlas, as reflected by how they are seen in so many other characters and the overarching themes of the Atlas Arc.
Thus, it makes sense character wise and I think it both makes sense thematically for the reasons outlined above & dramatically as this is the darkest moment. But also because if Penny just won, or somehow survived without changing that ideological thinking it'd be implicitly arguing that this was a good way to think and act rather than one that is ultimately self harming.
For comparisons sake, if a show has a good victim who only gets help because their trauma responses are convenient or 'cute' and who never grows out of or overcomes said traumas and the show argues it is meant to represent how best to view escape & recover from abuse. Then that series is inadvertently arguing its better a person stay locked in a traumatized state than actually try to change or grow & that is a story problem.
So, in this regard, Penny surviving would also necessitate her making the decision to prioritize the mission over her self sacrificing tendencies or to otherwise prioritize her own safety (Which she has every right to do given the circumstance). However it would not involve Penny flinging herself into another self sacrificial bout but winning this time, or just being saved again after its happened so many times already.
I hope that, that made sense.
I am essentially saying to keep Penny alive but keep everything else mostly the same, one then throws away the thematic & narrative meaning of the Atlas Arc; or if they want to keep Penny alive, they need to alter the Atlas Arcs themes or the cast & overall story to keep it coherent.
People are obviously free to not be fans of it, I am sad when characters I like die, but I don't view it inherently as a bad writing decision and I hope I have outlined here, exactly why I think that this worked for the Atlas Arc, the series of RWBY and made sense for its characters.
Thanks for reading!
Notes & Speculation:
Now, I don't do much speculating, but given so much of the shows current drama was created as a result of someone wanting a dead loved one back, them returning but it ultimately not being enough to stave off tragedy and self destruction. I feel one can also ague this is meant to serve and tie Ruby & Salem closer together as nominal dramatic foils. This is speculative of course, especially given the nature of death, balance and resurrections in this series is not even close to the hard line some think it is thematically speaking, but I do think that is worth keeping in mind.
I did a tumblr post too, warning for uncensored spoilers there.
.