IWIW RWBY
- Thread starter michaelb958
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- SPOILERS
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- Australia
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- She/Her
Yeah, this is just Due Process. No, that's really his guns name.
LordDarthYoda
#1 Jenova's Witness
- Location
- The Bottomless Pit
As fitting as Tyrian naming his wrist blades "Queen's Servants". We never get a name for Watts' gun but I headcanon him calling it "Elementary".
I'm pretty sure that Maria said that using them needs Grimm to activate, so they're tricky to use outside of situations like with the Goliath.
- Location
- Australia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Honestly, I expect Maria taught her some tricks to focus on the right thoughts, but the silver eyes always struck me as the kind of power that's so unique for each wielder that even Maria is limited in what she can teach.
Fun little detail. The ornament on the front of Ironwoods limo is a raptor, last seen in goofy shots Monty put together back in the day.
I love this bit. They can't give a huge amount of screen time to Qrow trying to escape the bottle, but even here you do see that he's tempted. And perhaps more importantly, he recognizes the limits of his self-control, and decides to remove the opportunity while still being useful. I've got a relative who tried to tough it out through such encounters, because removing the chance to indulge would 'be letting the beer win'. It's a good demonstration of growth on Qrows part since V6. The fact he got to say no in front of his neices likely helps his self image. I suspect he never wants them to see him like that again.
It also provides a counter to Willow later in the ep, who is still comfortable at the bottom of the bottle.
The fact Robyn's there at all raises some interesting questions about the previous attempts to arrest her. Did the Councilors promise her safe passage to this meeting, believing she had something valuable to offer/to try and open negotiations with the person Mantles population recognize as their actual voice/to fuck with Ironwood? (Options may vary depending on which councilor you're thinking of). Or is Robyns arrest warrant not public knowledge? Given Ironwoods first words weren't 'you're under arrest for the theft of military property', which would at least put the Council on the defensive... James, were you being secretive for the sake of being secretive... James, was there actually an arrest warrant? JAMES.
(Actually, I think it was just Ironwood not being good with social-fu, which we see a lot of in the coming scene, but still a worrying thought.)
James bad babit of seeing people under his command as tools is always worrying. You see it with Winter from time to time as well.
And once again James is bad at social-fu. This is the opportuinity to get the real story, or at least part of it, out and circulating among the Council. They don't even need to namedrop Salem. A crazy cultist who is clearly working with whoever penetrated Atlas systems for the security footage of the attacks, which also ties them to the extremists that attacked Beacon. While the admission of not succeeding at keeping them out of Atlas entirely is a partial sign of weakness, it also demonstrates they're under attack and he needs to be focusing on the crisis at hand. But, now that he's so wound up that he's seeing threats everywhere, his only thought is 'defend my position and authority'. It's honestly tragic how well Watts was able to predict him. Seriously, the show never went into heavy detail, but I would LOVE to know just what the personal dynamic and working relationship between the two was before the Paladin Incident.
On another note, clever touches with the food and drink being laid out here. Winter only has water, and Penny has nothing. An attempt to dehumanize her perhaps? Can she even eat and drink, and refused due to logistical limitations?
This one is kind of heartbreaking. There's likely footage of Jacques mistreatment and outright abuse of his family there, and Willow never went public. Because, as is too often the case with people trapped in abusive situations, she likely no longer believed anyone would care about her enough to do something about him. And so, she trapped herself, until even now, with the footage of the election tampering, she couldn't bring herself to step forward, possibly out of fear for what Jacques could do to her. I might have problems with her following line and what looks like an attempt to foist guilt off on Weiss, but before that, I still wanna hug her. And take that bottle away from her.
A 'clever' touch with this bit is the child being delighted to see snow, because he has no idea what the heating grid being down really means.
Also, Neon Katt and Flynt Coal are the two academy students on the billboard behind Watts.
Yup, leaning on your advantage in such things too hard only works until someone has a way to stop you, and then they usually follow it up with all sorts of receipts. I imagine James' butthole is clenching particularly tight at the thought of the audit heading his way...
Way to shoot yourself in the foot James.
Well of course he does. He was the one that made her fight it in the first place. Besides that fun bit of karma, there's also the fact that the Armour Gigas (A variant of a geist) was possessing a suit of armor based on Nicholas Schnees personal gear. Saint Nick stepping up from beyond the grave
Also the email addresses that they send the code to when you ask to reset it.
Probably not, honestly, but at the same time, given how shit a job Atlas has been doing at keeping spies and infiltrators out, there is a thousand different ways they could have learned.
Seriously, James thought these things were going to replace huntsmen in V2. The design was clearly put into use at least a decade too soon.
This is the army that was going to bring peace to the entire world, and it can't even spare a few ships to help with a crisis in a city almost directly beneath them...
If Oz was active in Oscars mind, we could ask him. He's been stuck holding the line for millennia.
Nah, if it was Oz, he wouldn't have reconsidered keeping it a secret... Which is a good reminder of how the victims of Lights shitty resurrection trick do contribute to Oz's mental state in the long run, honestly.
A great demonstration of how all the individual characters have their own body language. At least from V4 onwards, earlier volumes had their moments...
IN ATLAS. FANTASY SETTING TSA IS OFFICALLY USELESS.
Well, A breach. There's multiple holes in the wall. Which means Goliaths everywhere! Wheeee Elephants!
A nice touch here is that you see the Atlas troopers on the ground giving their all. One thing that we've seen time and time again, the average trooper on the ground is usually dedicated to protecting people. They just lack the gear and training to make them the equals of huntsmen.
We see once again that when she has her footing, Elm can not be moved.
Those kids saluting him is adorable. And its a good reminder that 'hearts and minds' missions have many benefits.
Yeah, her only goal is specific murder (With other murder as a hobby), namely the person responsible for getting Roman killed. Sadly, that person was eaten by a griffin several volumes ago, so it's time for her to reevaluate her life choices. By which I mean more murder.
Also explains why she chose Atlas. Besides the fact she found out Ruby was going there, it wasn't on her mistresses immediate job list. So she would be doing Salem a favor and getting something she wanted, without risking getting in the witch-queens way while said witch-queen is still pissed at her.
That's the problem with a power that runs on the emotion 'I need to protect someone I care about that's in danger.' It's very situational and temperamental.
The fact is, Qrow alone held his own against Tyrian in V4, so with the the three of them, I don't think he could safely get away, so might as well try for murder!
Tyrian uses the 'might as well' argument for a lot of murder.
... By himself. Not even any troopers as backup. Dammit James, if this goes wrong, I am going to be very irritated with you.
This WISHES it could possess the power of Gun-Gun.
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michaelb958
(Verified Michael)
- Location
- Wherever I am, there I am
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
This is Watts. How sure can we be?
Ironwood could indeed mount a better defence if he was in a condition to consider a more flexible strategy. But as you say, he's in a paranoid mindset, and unwilling to consider conceding minor losses to avoid major ones, which just brings on the major ones.
You'd think that Penny would have been uncovered as synthetic really fast if she couldn't eat or drink. On the other hand, you'd think she would have been uncovered as soon as somebody passed by with a magnet, but that was only a throwaway joke with Ciel. Remember Ciel?
Ironwood's in full turtle mode. More ships make Atlas (Atlas proper) safer. Therefore, fewer ships make Atlas less safe, which is unacceptable.
I've been told on the other site that these are actually Megoliaths, which are smaller, and based on a different animal (mammoths instead of elephants). Neither of these things are confusing at all. /s It reminds me of this book my mum's been complaining about lately where the leads are named Jenny and Penny and it just wasn't necessary.
Fun fact: I get Elm and Harriet mixed up a lot. This one almost survived to posting as Harriet. Wouldn't have made much sense to the rest of you.
As that one fanfic had Jaune say, the big picture is made of small pictures. Here's one of those small pictures contributing to the big picture.
On tonight's episode of Murder Murder Murder Club...
- Location
- Australia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Harriet can totally be moved. In fact, that's kind of her thing
Paranoia paranoia, everybody's coming to get me...
dragonx99
Actually Satan
I did not expect to find a Watts/Ironwood shipper today, but I'm interested enough to see how this plays out.
michaelb958
(Verified Michael)
- Location
- Wherever I am, there I am
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I meant Watts/Amity, but that's a valid interpretation too.
- Location
- Australia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Honestly? I could see it. And it would have been toxic as FUCK.
V07C11 Gravity
michaelb958
(Verified Michael)
- Location
- Wherever I am, there I am
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
V07C11 Gravity
Gunfight at the Amity Corral.
This is some anime nonsense that Ironwood's gun is pulling here. Like, I can understand recoil propulsion from Crescent Rose which is literally Ruby's size, but it's a bit harder to believe from literally a handgun. Although now that I think about it, it's even less believable from gauntlets like Yang's.
Watts appears to be counting his shots, which will probably be important later. Watts also has control of the arena which he can use to mess with Ironwood. Case in point, this weird biome does weird gravity shenanigans.
The arena appears to have actually selected eight biomes, alternating between gravity shenanigans and something a bit more conventional. The one down there at the moment is steam vents. Watts casually making little forcefield platforms to step on on his way to the next gravity biome.
I say again, this is some anime nonsense that Ironwood's gun is pulling here. I guess just don't think about it.
And here come the lyrics!
Both of them are starting to figure out the gravity shenanigans. Now Watts miscalculates and has to survive in CQC for a bit. He manages.
Watts loses Ironwood on the way to the next gravity biome, and puts up a lava geyser behind him. He pauses a moment to wonder how Ironwood's that terrible. The answer is that Ironwood was coming from a completely different direction and has a clear shot at him by surprise. Watts' Aura isn't doing so great now.
Watts uses an ice Dust shot to freeze Ironwood's boot to the ground, but fails to capitalise on it before he breaks himself loose of the ice. More gravity shenanigans ensue. Watts makes the bad choice of inviting CQC again. It's interesting to watch them try to work out what on earth they're doing trying to wrestle in the boundary between two gravity zones. Ironwood wins it and smacks Watts into one of the 'floor's - Watts' Aura is really struggling now.
Ironwood makes the interesting decision to tackle Watts back into the blank central tile of the arena. His Aura protests a bit at the impact, but he comes off better.
Watts lifts the central tile even higher, which it was probably able to do to facilitate whatever engineering needed to be done up here. They have an argument as they fight, in which Watts insults Pietro too. Ironwood is tiring and seems to be out of ammo, and eventually Watts gets his gun to Ironwood's head. Given the lack of ammo counting lately, I think it'll just go click.
Watts doesn't even try to fire. Instead he discards the gun as a distraction to trap Ironwood's arm in a forcefield tile.
Watts gloats. Ohhhhh I don't even want to look at Ironwood's arm any more, I'll disturb the cat if I have to get up and go be sick. (Remember, most squeamish person you'll ever hear of.)
Ironwood gets himself free - very painfully - and overwhelms Watts, dragging him to the edge of the tile and neck-lifting him over a lava biome below.
On that somewhat literal cliffhanger, we return to Mantle, where Clover informs Tyrian that he's under arrest. Tyrian, being Tyrian, just finds this funny.
Qrow attacks first. They seem about evenly matched. After a bit Tyrian has blocked Qrow's weapon and grabbed another bolt from Robyn, so Qrow punches him. I remember that callback.
Now I again start wondering how practical a fishing pole is as a weapon.
Clover's making it work here. Robyn can't do much because Tyrian keeps catching her projectiles, but every time Tyrian starts lining up a tail attack on Qrow, he gets hooked by the tail and dragged into Clover's range, and/or Qrow just punches him (Tyrian) in the face.
While Tyrian is busy blocking Qrow some more, Robyn tries two trick shots. Quick learner, she is. Tyrian is hit by the second and his Aura flickers.
Turns out even Tyrian can't win a 1v3 with three professionals, one of whom knows his tricks already. As he backs off to make some space, Robyn fires again, and Tyrian, being Tyrian, catches the bolt in his teeth. Then it explodes. Nice. He falls over with his Aura broken, and Robyn kicks him in the face.
Ironwood enters his office. His arm is bandaged up, and he is carrying Watts' bag of goodness knows what tricks. Clover reports in his earpiece that they've captured Tyrian and would like a prisoner transport for him. Ironwood looks up at something and drops the bag in shock.
Out the front of the academy, Winter is directing everyone onto lockdown when Ironwood calls her and demands to know whether anyone was "caught trying to enter the school grounds while I was away". No, says Winter. Are you sure, asks Ironwood.
Winter sprints. Cinder watches from above. I sense the old Cinder playbook coming on.
Meanwhile, Teams RWBY and ALN, and implicitly Penny, are recalled to Atlas Academy on Ironwood's orders. He has not given a reason, which unnerves Weiss. Elm and Harriet, flying Team RWBY and Jaune, give them the just-following-orders justification. This is all adding up to trouble, I can feel it. Jaune says he'll fetch Oscar.
Team RWBY and the Ace Ops enter Ironwood's office. Ironwood has his chair turned around to face out the window. At Harriet's prompting, he turns to face them. "We have made a critical error," he says, and places a crude glass chess piece - a black queen - on his desk. I think that might be bad.
Ironwood is indeed having a(nother) little breakdown at the idea that someone - that nobody saw coming - snuck into his office to leave him the symbol from his nightmares. Now he's second-guessing everything.
Ruby sees that the chess piece is made of black glass and concludes Cinder did it. Yang is not happy to hear that Cinder didn't die at Haven. Ironwood theorises (increasingly maniacally) that Hazel could be present as well, because that would complete the package.
Let's take a moment to acknowledge the universal applicability of Cinder's playbook. Break into a CCTS tower and leave a calling card, springboard from there into an attack (or threat of one) on an Academy, then use that to get the Maiden's successor to lead you right to them.
Blake steps forward to tell Ironwood that Team RWBY supports him. Blake steps back as Ironwood questions that. Ironwood has remembered that Robyn somehow knew about the Amity Communications Tower. Yang admits fault. (This was probably not a good idea under the circumstances.) The Ace Ops are aghast.
A shouting match about "loyalty" (and differing interpretations thereof) has just gotten under way when a crystal-ball-Grimm bursts out of Watts' bag. "General Ironwood," says Salem as everyone stands in shock. The Grimm falls to the floor and bursts open into a cloud of Grimm smoke into which Salem summons an effigy of Herself to gloat.
Salem declares that Watts and Tyrian, and Cinder and anyone else, were all ultimately disposable. If they won, that would be cool (for Her), but they were actually just there to lay the red (and black and white) carpet for Salem Herself. She then demands that Ironwood surrender both Relics to Her, offering to spare Atlas (and probably also Mantle) if he does. He refuses. (She probably wasn't going to anyway, and She definitely wasn't going to manage to exclude them from the Judgement if She 'won'.)
Ruby gets to drop on Salem that Jinn showed them the good stuff, and that "We don't have to kill you to stop you. And we will stop you." Go Ruby! Salem says nothing for the duration of this Ruby speech, then once She's sure Ruby's done, claps back twice as hard:
Ruby flickers between despair and determination, fails to activate silver eyes, and settles on despair. As Yang and Blake try to comfort her, Salem decides Her work here is done and dissolves Her effigy - and the smoke backing it - without another word.
The Ace Ops have not actually seen Salem before. They're a bit freaked out. Elm dismisses talk that Salem is coming Herself by asserting Atlas' long-range detection systems; Vine has a bad feeling, checks said systems, and confirms they're all down. Marrow's theory is that Watts took them down. Ironwood reckons Salem rolled right over them. Elm doesn't like that latter theory much, and not in the 'implausible' sense.
Blake asks if Amity was actually ready to launch. It is left to Yang to answer, deducing that this was a lie and bait for Watts. Ironwood is staring out the window and not saying much.
At Weiss' prompting, Ironwood tells her that he sent Winter to "claim the power of the Winter Maiden", which is a very nice euphemism that will not work on anybody present. He continues that the Relics will have to be secured. Ruby objects that he said they could keep Knowledge, to which Ironwood reminds her that they lied to his face about it, and about Blake and Yang not being able to catch Robyn, and now Mantle and the armed forces are severely damaged. "The timeline has changed," he says, which I recall as a Cinder line from last Chapter (checks yep).
Ironwood has thrown away the plan and made a new one. The new plan is to raise Atlas itself above the reach of the Grimm. There are many things wrong with this plan, which many have written about at length, so I will contain myself to: with the Relic of Creation you're locking away, right. How will you keep the Relic safe during that process?
Blake raises the next obvious objection: Mantle would be left to die. Ironwood sees no problem with that. Oh dear.
Ironwood proves immune to the Ruby speech about how the last, ongoing, plan is a good one, asserting the need to keep multiple Relics out of Salem's hands, and generally being busy being a hard man making hard decisions. Team RWBY agree with their leader that the correct hard decision here is to stand their ground. The Ace Ops side with Ironwood, reluctant to try fighting battles to win the war. Weiss resorts to invoking the spectre of the Council's disapproval, to which Ironwood says their opinion doesn't matter under martial law. (Even if it did, with Jacques in a cell, Ironwood has enough votes to veto the rest of the Council.)
Ironwood and the Ace Ops are making very alarming mouth noises as Ruby's Scroll rings. It answers itself on speaker somehow, allowing Jaune to tell them that "We have got a serious problem!". Ruby moves to pick it up, to which Ironwood moves for his weapon, so Ruby Semblances around him to behind his desk, does it anyway, and announces to group voice chat (Jaune, Penny with Winter, Qrow) the bones of the big problem. She is cut off mid-word by Ironwood using his Council administrator access to lock out their Scrolls. He declares them all under arrest "until Atlas and the Relics are safe". That could be a while if it depends on his interpretation of "safe", not to mention everything else that has just trainwrecked.
Ruby vows that Team RWBY won't go quietly. "I know," says Ironwood, leaving his office, which now contains Team RWBY and most of the Ace Ops (minus Clover, who is on Tyrian's transport).
For those of you wondering what serious problem Jaune was trying to announce, the room Team ALN have reached bears all the hallmarks of a fight, and Oscar is missing.
So this is all going to hell, eh.
The concept art diagram of the progression of Ironwood and Watts' fight is quite something to behold. It's not easy trying to storyboard Super Mario Galaxy with gun-wrestling.
(I was not sick, and the cat remained undisturbed.)
Next time: Okay, exactly who walked under a ladder, tripped on a black cat and broke a mirror?
- Location
- Australia
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- She/Her
He sent her to do this before he even knew Salem was coming. His plan to declare martial law, abandon the people of Mantle, kill Fria for her car keys and retreat
James Ironwood has given in to fear.
hellgodsrus
Actual Real Game Dev!
- Location
- Behind You
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'd also note I always thought Ironwood locking them out of their scrolls wasn't him using admin access - it was that he'd always had a backdoor in their scrolls since the moment he gave them their fancy new equipment, because he's paranoid and doesn't trust anyone. From the moment he gave their equipment to them it was always something that he felt He was giving them and that he could, therefore, revoke just as easily. There's no evidence for this, of course, but that was always my headcanon.
(sidenote, how sick would it have been if the same thing happened to their weapons? Given all the stuff about how weapons are an extension of the soul and all)
(sidenote, how sick would it have been if the same thing happened to their weapons? Given all the stuff about how weapons are an extension of the soul and all)
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On the topic of fear and tyranny Ironwood's scheme with Atlas is itself a rather interesting case of how people can consent to ruin out of fear.
By that Atlas can escape while Mantel is left behind true but it needs Dust for fuel to keep it in the air meaning Ironwood either needs to do a invasion given you need easy to get Dust and a population to harvest it which means another Kingdom or try to float and settle somewhere in the Grimm infested wildlands which alert Salem and be at a severe disadvantage from the retreat.
It reminds me a lot of Raven's attempts to masquerade her fear with her ideology.
By that Atlas can escape while Mantel is left behind true but it needs Dust for fuel to keep it in the air meaning Ironwood either needs to do a invasion given you need easy to get Dust and a population to harvest it which means another Kingdom or try to float and settle somewhere in the Grimm infested wildlands which alert Salem and be at a severe disadvantage from the retreat.
It reminds me a lot of Raven's attempts to masquerade her fear with her ideology.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Shit like this is why Medical Officers have the authoirty to bench those of highe rank. Severe physical trauma impairs decision making ability
It looks like some of Ironwood's shots are purple, indicating that he's using Gravity Dust
Out maneuvered by Ironwood, how embarassing for Watts
- Location
- Australia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I maintain that would have been hilarious.ironwood is in the infirmary sleeping off the arm, winter is stuck coordinating and never goes near James office.
Cinder: ... What the fuck is taking them so long?
Erinyes
Ready?
- Location
- Chattanooga, TN, USA
Indeed. The problem here is that there is no authority above Ironwood to enforce that kind of decision from the medical staff.
- Location
- Australia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If you get a chance, go look up the lyrics to 'Hero'. They're both amazing and worrying.
And in the end, as far as anyone can tell, that's what it was all about with Watts. He got recruited by Salem, either before or after the Paladin Incident, because his ego couldn't stand a coworkers project being chosen over his own work. All this death, all this chaos, all because of a petty little mans ego. Hey, they can't all be tragic backstories with sympathetic points. Sometimes, an asshole is just an asshole.
Fun thing here. Some people have noted that it might just be the animation style of the forcefield, but the projectors are outside the actual field, and within reach of Ironwoods other arm. This is only fan speculation, the writers have never commented on it, but some speculate that James might not have actually needed to injure himself to escape. Which would be tragic if true, and unfortunately in line with his attitude (especially at this point) on making sacrifices even if they're not actually necessary. And would also go very well with Watt's last line to James at the end there...
Once again, this fight really shows that Clovers fighting style is basically support, in a 'trip up the enemy, and leave him open to my allies attacks' kind of way. Effective for the squad he leads, but it really does need outside help, or potentially his semblance.
Robyns fighting style meanwhile, depends VERY heavily on being ranged. While her crossbow has blades on the edges, that seems intended as a last resort. That said, she also seems to specialize in making her own openings, and as shown here, exploiting the enemies stupidity. Or craziness.
There was also some speculation that it's a bow instead of the usual gun, because operating in Mantle, with potentially no money, creates supply issues. Bolts can be reused (Unless they explode, but that was for a good cause). Bullets can't.
And almost instantly jumps to 'scared civilians are actually enemy infiltrators', which WHAT THE FUCK JAMES. Also Vine having the same train of thought, with Marrow giving him a very 'WTF' face.
So, I have to applaud Salem here. If she was listening in through the Seer Grimm (YOU NEVER LOOKED IN THE BAG JAMES?!), she heard him order Winter to murder Fria for her powers - I'm sorry, secure the powers of the Winter Maiden. She knows that Watts and Tyrian have been captured, but that Cinder is running around Atlas on her own initiative. And she knows that Ironwood, in his latest surge of paranoia, is playing right into her hands. All she has to do is make certain that people smarter than him can't talk him out of his foolishness. So she uses the Seer to manifest and announce she's coming. Instantly, everyone is focused on her, even RWBY for a bit, and Ironwood is locked on his path. At this point, he will not be talked out of it.
He was going to protect the world. He threw that away to protect his kingdom. Well, the part of it he actually cares about. The rest of it can go hang. What will he sacrifice next?
As a side note, he claims his army is 'exhausted' from the cancelled evacuation of Mantle. Most of the fleet didn't even take part in that! They've been stationed around Atlas 'just in case'!
The AceOps, in this crucial moment, failed. They heard their superior officer state his intentions to abandon his responsibilites to the citizens of the Kingdom of Atlas, remove the remains of the civilian government from any authority, and flee. And they fell in line under him. Because 'you have to make hard choices'. And as usual for people who spout that line, they take the choice where other people besides them face the hard consequences. I loved Blake calling it out for the BS it is.
I felt for Weiss, watching the 'Benevolant Dictator' she was certain was a good man under all the stress abandon the 'benevolant' part. That quiet 'no...' when he says hes declaring martial law and removing the remaining civilian control was painful.
Ruby and Yang may have just gotten an answer on what happened to their mother, and they proceed to get up despite the pain, stand in front of Ironwood, and remain true huntresses.
Ironwood knew Cinder was on Atlas, able to breach his office undetected, and didn't warn Oscar, who was carrying a relic. Then again, he sent the obvious Winter Maiden Candidate off to find the Winter Maiden, so this really shouldn't surprise anyone.
During the week between this episode and the next, there was a lot of fan musing about what could happen. There was going to be an aceop fight, obviously, and ALN would likely find themselves up against Neo, with Winter and Penny against Cinder. But there was also questions about two Aceops in particular. Marrow, and Clover. With the former, there were hints with facial expressions and body language this ep that he was nowhere near as comfortable as the other three with Ironwoods actions. But would that lead to anything here? Would there be a command of 'stay!' freezing the other three in place, or would he fall into line and attack the heroes?
Clover was the interesting one. We'd seen hints of his friendship with Qrow, helping the man overcome his demons. Was there enough of a bond there to make him take Ruby's emergency transmission seriously, or would he, like the people who he commanded, fall in line behind Ironwood? And if he did, what would Qrow and Robyn do in response? What would Tyrian do? Theres another point here that influenced the fandoms responses, but that's a marketing issue and I'll get into that in an episode or two.
SolipsistSerpent
Endlessly Devouring
Now, it's probably worth mentioning some people saw Ironwood's downward slide here as a bit of character assassination, but personally, I always remembered him as the guy introduced by bringing a bunch of warships to the Olympic Friendship Games when they were being held in another country, one which notably hadn't given him permission to bring said war machines.
So, no, I don't think this is out of character, even if he might have been able to resist temptation better in different circumstances.
So, no, I don't think this is out of character, even if he might have been able to resist temptation better in different circumstances.
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- Location
- Australia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
These people also tend to ignore him threatening civilians in V4, because said civilian is Jacques. A man who he was apparently more than happy to work with up to that point, so much so his advertising scene in V2 had him boasting how the mech soldiers were the latest designs from the military's partnership with the SDC. That scene (The v4 one) was when a friend of mine said 'Ironwood is a good man who will doom us all', and he was proven correct, although at this point, many may dispute the 'good' part
They also ignore him screwing over oz in V2 and saying it's oz's own fault, abandoning his allies in Mistral in V5, the... attitude Atlas soldiers in Argus displayed to anyone not from Atlas, and everything in Mantle this volume. But as we've seen with this IWIW, if you're paying attention, the signs were there since his first appearance.
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I'd add a "was" instead of an is after Beacon, as he became more concerned with being safe than helping with problems in his over militarized way.
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- Australia
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As I said, the nature of 'good' is very debatable.
michaelb958
(Verified Michael)
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- Wherever I am, there I am
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- He/Him/His
Ain't nobody thinks about their supply chain being gone until it's gone.
To be fair, at Cinder's first break-in she left rather than seriously fight Ruby, and since then she's become a full Maiden; so Ironwood may be thinking that since there's no reason for her to flee a fight this time (obviously!), clearly she had something else to do. Or something. I'm trying not to spend too much time in Ironwood's head any more.
It's a pretty cool headcanon.
Very. I'm not entirely sure which sense of "sick" it would have been, but it would have been very much so.
Some of the shots did look purple, if I remember correctly. That just shifts my concern to 'how is his wrist still intact'.
Turns out that, all else being equal (and even sometimes when it's not, like here), a skilled trained soldier probably has better odds in a fight than a talented amateur.
(checks) Confirmed, both of those things.
On the one hand, nearly anybody could be an infiltrator. On the other hand, he's realised that too late to catch any of the four actual infiltrators.
...H*ck, you're right. The big ships have mostly just been lurking there. Menacingly.
It's just like I said about two-and-a-half volumes ago, coincidentally about people plotting against Blake:
Bravery, folks.
{{On the one hand, I have the unfair advantage of being from the future, and sometimes that leaks through despite my best efforts. On the other hand, that mostly just fills in my terminal lack of analysis skills - I wasn't expecting it to be quite that obvious, given my diet to that point had been people (who ignore things, clearly) saying things like '[V7 Ironwood] read the script and remembered he was meant to be an antagonist'.}}
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- Australia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah. It was actually commonly accepted in the fandom he was at least untrustworthy as fuck way back in volume 2. The claims of it being 'retconned in' only really started around V4, often by people insisting that Miles and Kerry were 'betraying Monty's Vision', or people who insist that the military man making hard choices while hard is always right because they're the military man making hard choices. Which always makes me ask what show they're watching, given RWBY has never been military propaganda. And for that matter, what studio they thought was making it, given RT got its start with a show about a bunch of idiots in a box canyon fighting each other because military command was a bunch of morons, and probably corrupt.
(Also, despite insisting it was a retconned addition in V4, the same people still insist it came out of nowhere in V7...)
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V07C12 With Friends Like These
michaelb958
(Verified Michael)
- Location
- Wherever I am, there I am
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
V07C12 With Friends Like These
Ruby's announcement plays through a comms filter over a black screen. We pick up in the prisoner transport where it was clearly just heard. Robyn is understandably very, very reluctant to go along with martial law. Clover does his best Clover reassurance, which isn't great, and in any case is interrupted halfway through by Clover being sent a Wanted poster: Teams RWBY and ALPN, not to mention Qrow, are now to be arrested on sight. How convenient that Qrow can't escape from here.
Clover walks over to Qrow, who reads the situation and prepares to draw. Clover reads off the poster as Robyn receives her own copy. Qrow is understandably aghast. Tyrian is entertained, which is rarely a good sign.
Robyn doesn't hesitate to draw on Clover. Clover attempts to have her stand down by appealing to her sense of selfishness, which was never going to work, then draws himself. Qrow urges them to cool down for a minute until they get to Atlas and can ask Ironwood what he's thinking, which might maybe have worked except that Tyrian, being Tyrian, eggs Robyn on. Clover has Robyn on the floor in an instant, and so Qrow draws and engages Clover himself, regretfully. Robyn recovers and helps, disapproving of any regrets.
This awful sequence of events is only going to get worse now that Robyn's deflection of Clover's only ranged attack has collateral'd some of Tyrian's bindings. Yep, Tyrian promptly pulls a Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771. Clover jumps out just before impact; Qrow and Robyn don't have enough warning.
Fade from the white screen of the crash to Winter seeing the Wanted poster. "Weiss," she says to nobody, "what did you do?"
Penny, being the Protector of Mantle, is quite concerned about the implied fate of Mantle. Winter absolutely isn't, brushing off Ironwood's actions as "saving Remnant". Sure, if by Remnant you don't mean anywhere on Remnant except Atlas. Both dig into their verbal positions. This is going to suck too.
Winter refuses to do anything other than follow orders, insisting that they (Penny is bodyguarding her for this trip) continue to Fria's ward to do the euthanasia euphemism. Penny insists that Winter's personal feelings about the arrest warrant for her sister (among others) do, in fact, matter. Winter tells her that "The general is making hard choices so that we don't have to." We have ourselves a master of ignoring the awkward feelings, and I hate it.
Penny, responding to Winter asserting the Greater Good™, doesn't see anything good in the current situation. Winter seems to agree with that much.
Team RWBY are having just as little success talking down the leaderless Ace Ops. Harriet locks down the headmaster's office (which they are all still in) as Vine insists they not "make this difficult" in complete wilful ignorance of how difficult it already is.
Marrow seems to be the sole voice with any doubt that there's about to be a fight. Harriet brushes him off and deploys the 'look what they made us do' defence, which is legally valid under the aegis of 'resisting arrest', but not the slightest bit morally valid in context. Ruby responds to that by joining Team RWBY's pre-battle line and drawing Crescent Rose, which gets Marrow to join the Ace Ops' pre-battle line and draw his weapon.
Ruby Semblance-rams her way out the door. I wasn't expecting that - I thought she'd Semblance-ram Harriet. Silly me, I guess. I think Harriet has gone out the door after her.
The others pair off as well - Yang v Elm, Blake v Marrow, Weiss v Vine.
Yep, Harriet is pursuing Ruby, successfully. She slams Ruby into a lift door hard enough to crumple it. Ruby makes the best Ruby speech she has time for about the importance of cooperation against Salem, to which Harriet is utterly unreceptive: "I had you kids pegged right from the start." I'd like to know what Harriet thinks she knows. Both of them leave the antechamber of the headmaster's office, heading outward.
Into the antechamber now, Yang knocks Elm around a bit before Elm roots herself and turns the tables, and Blake swings around wildly on her ribbon dodging Vine's extending arms. One of them nearly trips up Yang, but she recovers and leaves a couple of bombs on the floor to explode and irritate Elm.
After a bit of this, Blake misjudges and finally gets grabbed, and Vine delivers her straight to Elm, who uses her as a hostage against Yang. Vine's offer of lenience if they surrender is undermined by Elm, who is really mad at Team RWBY's "betray[al]". Elm isn't moved at all by Blake pointing out her (Elm's) own betrayal of her oath. Elm is moved to even more anger by Yang accusing her of "just following orders". Elm here is the perfect opponent for Yang in that she's earlier on Yang's anger-management character arc; she discards Blake and charges Yang. Vine sighs in irritation at Elm undermining his foolproof plan and leaps up to the tiny little mezzanine for reasons yet unclear.
Still in the headmaster's office, Weiss is having a better time against Marrow; in particular, she's figured out how to do Freezerburn all by herself. This buys her time to ignore Marrow taunting her about her name and summon Trailer Knight. I predict that this will be the weak link in the Ace Ops; Weiss, now with the numerical advantage, can defeat Marrow and then pile in on the next fight to start rolling them up from the back.
Meanwhile, somewhere out on the scenic tundra, Qrow pries himself out of half of the wreckage of the aircraft. Being Qrow, he runs over to assist Robyn when he sees her passed out near the other half. She's alive, at least for the moment.
Clover appears from seemingly nowhere and uses Robyn's health as a hostage to coerce Qrow's surrender. Qrow doesn't. Clover is displaying that Ace Ops attitude to forming connections - don't, it's all just a job - leaving Qrow very bitterly satisfied in all the suspicions he'd always had.
As they start fighting, Tyrian awakens inside an unknown half of wreckage, and sprains his way out of the rest of his bindings. This is going to suck calamitously.
Qrow is susceptible to Clover using his old just-punch-them trick against him. Not like Clover has many other tricks given his weapon is a fishing rod. How is he fighting a guy with a gunscythe to a standstill, anyway? Clearly he's skilled.
Tyrian makes himself known. Qrow disengages from Clover to fight Tyrian. After a few moments, Clover displays an absolutely stunning lack of situational awareness (intellectual variety) by deciding he'll make it a three-way battle, instead of even pretending to cooperate with Qrow against Tyrian. I knew I hated the Ace Ops.
It appears that Qrow is at least pretending to cooperate with Tyrian against Clover. I don't even have words for this, save for 'dammit Clover, prioritise better'.
Ruby and Weiss are now fighting Harriet and Marrow. (A bit; Ruby is still using bursts of speed to make it two 1v1s and rile up Harriet besides.) Blake and Yang are still fighting Elm and Vine. Each pair of Ace Ops has one member who's getting way too into their chance at police brutality (Harriet, Elm) and one who's at least paying lip service to nonlethal capture of their opponents (Marrow, Vine).
Blake and Yang pull off a Plan. As Vine (still of the mezzanine) weaponises chunks of the wall against them, Yang catches one and covers one side in sticky bombs. She then passes it to an airborne Blake, who kicks it at Vine (sticky bombs facing Blake, so Vine might not even have seen them). Vine blocks it, and follows up by grabbing Blake. Surprise, shadow clone, who transferred the sticky bombs to themselves. It dissipates just in time for Vine to realise he's going to get blown up. Yang intercepts him on the way down, steals the bolas from his belt, ties him up with them, and spikes him into the main floor hard enough to crack the floor and break his Aura. Looks like I was wrong about which Ace Op gets defeated first.
And here come the lyrics!
Marrow and Harriet saw that go down, negatively affecting their morale (not to mention Elm, who of course saw it all). So did Ruby, but I'm not sure what she thinks of it. Probably 'it sucks that it had to be like this'.
Marrow has a bad time against Weiss - he has one weapon and a single-target Semblance, while Weiss has a summon and an incredibly versatile Semblance. Marrow stays Weiss, then has to dodge like h*ck to stay ahead of Trailer Armour. He stays Trailer Armour, then gets barraged with fireballs that break his Aura, and incidentally knock the bolas off his belt for Weiss to presumably collect and tie him up with.
Ruby and Harriet are much more evenly matched.
Yang shatters the floor around Elm. This entirely negates Elm's Semblance: It needs a sturdy surface to anchor to - on this unsturdy surface, it's just unwieldy boot extensions. Elm, with few good options and Yang racing at her, deploys missile launcher mode. Yang is only momentarily fazed; she prevents Elm from firing by punching the floor and sending Elm involuntarily rocketing upwards to simultaneously meet Yang going up and Blake coming down. Elm's Aura lasts just long enough after that to stop her impact with the floor from getting really ugly.
I missed in their last scene fragment that Harriet got her bolas out (definitely not a euphemism) and Ruby played a UNO Reverse and tied her (Harriet) arms to her sides with them. Anyway, even this isn't notably impeding Harriet. Unfortunately for Harriet, she has no
Harriet gets up to see about contesting the matter further, then faints. Comedy™.
Team RWBY reconvene in the antechamber. Having moved the floor rubble (thanks Yang!) to the edges, they can drag the unconscious and restrained Ace Ops to the center and leave them there in relative safety. Meanwhile, they plan. Ruby and Weiss will intercept the Winter Maiden while Blake and Yang will look for "the others", which I assume to mean Team ALPN and Qrow (and probably Clover, who is an extant threat). Ruby starts objecting to splitting up on the basis that they won't be able to communicate. A noise from the lift lobby.
It's Maria and Pietro. Remember them? I didn't. Maria closes her Scroll (bearing its own copy of the Wanted poster) and tells Pietro, and anyone else who might care to acknowledge her wisdom, "This is the part where they ask us to help.".
Team ALN have just discovered that Oscar is missing. They search the immediate area and soon find him, still with Knowledge. Nora goes to hug him and is stopped just in time by Oscar shouting "NO!" from around a corner before emerging (Knowledge-less) from around that same corner to punch himself in the face and halfway down the hallway.
Remember Neopolitan? The Oscar with Knowledge is in fact Neo. The real Oscar, who looks like he's been through a small war, picks up Knowledge from where he knocked it loose and fills in enough details to confirm to Team ALN (who "haven't exactly heard good things") that it's Neo.
With Fria loaded into an Aura-transfer machine in her ward, Winter has come just far enough around to acknowledge that her (Winter's) feelings have some validity. This is a lesson to Penny about the necessity of having them.
Before Winter can load herself into the other pod, multiple explosions shake the building, forcing Winter to go and investigate. She finds dead guards and Cinder in the hallway outside. Cinder throws a fireball, to which Winter panics, dives back into Fria's ward, and seals the door. Not even an attempt to block it and call for Penny?
Cinder is not delayed at all, trivially blasting the door open and knocking down both defenders. As they climb back to their feet, she gloats in advance, especially to Penny about engineering her death last time. Penny decides that Cinder's taunting "(deploys weapons) gives me personal feelings". Go Penny!
Meanwhile in the scenic tundra, Clover is holding his own against Qrow and Tyrian's imperfect cooperation. After a while of this, Clover manages to disarm Qrow. Clover then has to fend off attacks from Tyrian, who is actively channeling Aura to his hands - I don't know what that means, but it can't be good.
Clover wraps Tyrian right up in fishing line. Clover is then introduced to Qrow's fist at punching speed, breaking his Aura. They have an anguished heart-to-heart. They've forgotten about Tyrian's ability to escape bindings. Clover is messily stabbed in the back (and out the front) by Tyrian with Qrow's weapon. Death is nearly instant.
Tyrian taunts Qrow. "I'LL KILL YOU!" roars Qrow. Tyrian observes that "you" (implied: Qrow's Semblance) just killed Clover, discards the murder weapon (Qrow's), notes the impending arrival of Atlesian reinforcements, and books it as Qrow is in no condition to stop him. This is going to set him back so far.
Clover is somehow only about to be dead despite missing most of his chest cavity.
Those are, fittingly, Clover's last words. Qrow just screams. I'm inclined to join him.
Elm's voice actor also appears as an additional vocalist.
Next time: Fall more. Wait no not you-