hellgodsrus
Actual Real Game Dev!
- Location
- Behind You
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Or it just isn't relevant. He doesn't have to use it in the show, there's no signs of him using it, how it's relevant is what it says about his character and soul.
IWIW RWBY
- Thread starter michaelb958
- Start date
- SPOILERS
It means that when he acts calm he's not actually thinking any clearer, he's just acting like it.
- Location
- Australia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
michaelb958
(Verified Michael)
- Location
- Wherever I am, there I am
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
So what you're telling me is while this Semblance that helps him tread on everyone technically has visible signs, they require eyesight nearly as good as needed to spot Amber's corpse cameo in V03C12, which most (including me) do not have (I only spotted that because it was filed in Amber's image gallery for seemingly no reason). I have a Hot Take prepared for this, but I'm keeping it in reserve for now in case something comes up that invalidates the assumptions under which I hot-took. Spoiler alert, it's like what hellgodsrus said, but - well - a hotter take.
Ironwood: Military problems require military solutions.
Also Ironwood: I lead a military, therefore every problem is a military problem, and everything works like a military because I can't think in any other terms.
One could argue that he's using "my" in the inverse-possessive sense ('my boss'). One would have an uphill battle making this argument, but one could pick that battle if one were so inclined.
Pretty much exactly what I've been thinking ever since. If she weren't the Mantle people's champion, she'd be laughed out of any political machine.How many times could she derail an opponents bs agenda by going 'take my hand and say that again.'?
- Location
- Australia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Any political debate would have her with a hatchet ready to go. I've seen a few fics use that, with Jacques trying VERY hard to never be in the same place as her, but never make it obvious that's that he's doing, with varying degrees of success.
V07C08 Cordially Invited
michaelb958
(Verified Michael)
- Location
- Wherever I am, there I am
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
V07C08 Cordially Invited
Ironic episode title senses tingling...
Weiss seems to have received her own copy of Jacques' dinner invitation. Ruby, being Ruby, lives in eternal optimism that Jacques is actually trying to mend fences instead of building walls (or siege engines). Oscar has to tell her that trapping Ironwood in a room with a veiled-hostile Jacques is not going to help his (Ironwood's) mental state like is sorely needed.
Weiss also still can't quite believe that Jacques was elected. She's not saying Salem, but she's not putting anything past him. To this, Ruby suggests that Weiss would be able to "snoop" around the Schnee live-in trophy cabinet during the dinner without being questioned much, so she (Weiss) should try to dig something up. Weiss doesn't look sure how she feels about that.
And now we get our first real exterior view of the live-in trophy cabinet as guests arrive. This batch includes anybody who's Doylistically anybody: Teams RWBY and ALPN, Qrow, the Ace Ops, Ironwood, Winter, and Penny.
Did I reference the Ashley Williams quote yet? ...Yes I did, back in V02C02. In any case, this seems to lift Ironwood's spirits a little. Weiss, just behind them, steels herself.
Whitley greets this small army at the door. Weiss is taken aback not to see Klein. Whitley unsuccessfully guilts her over Whitley not being her first priority before informing her that Klein was fired for (strongly implied) letting Weiss escape. Whitley then proceeds to not even realise he's lost a war of words with Ironwood.
Only Ironwood (the defendant), Winter, Penny, and Clover will actually be proceeding to the dining room at this point - as Ironwood worked in while verbally slapping Whitley around, the rest are 'merely' ready to be called as witnesses.
Qrow then turns down a server offering wine. Hot damn, Clover's been good for him. He (Qrow) begs off to patrol the grounds, which Marrow thinks is a great idea that he will also get in on. Harriet warns Team RWBY to behave well and be ready to be witnesses as the rest of the Ace Ops wander off to eat as many expensive nibbles as possible to cost Jacques money (absolute mood). Yang thinks otherwise.
Weiss wanders off to start her mission and is immediately intercepted by Whitley insincerely hoping to catch up. Yep, he hasn't changed a bit.
The dining room is relatively sparsely populated. At one end of the overly-large dining table, Ironwood and party. At the other end, Jacques and two other Atlas Councillors. In between, Robyn Hill, who somehow got an invite; Ironwood is not pleased to see her.
Jacques opens by interrupting Ironwood to question their safety from Penny. Ironwood reiterates the official report that footage of her perpetrating the massacre was faked, then overextends by asserting that he completely controls Penny. This doesn't just make Penny sad, it allows Jacques to segue into questioning the alarming extent of Ironwood's authority. And I'd be cheering right along with Jacques if he was pretty much anyone else - say, Robyn.
Teams RBY and ALPN hatch a plan to get Weiss past Whitley. It involves not being on their best behaviour. I feel like I'll be cringing a bit. ...Yep. The plan is to get Nora to spill whatever messy food that is all over him. It fails because some random walks in front of him at precisely the wrong moment, then succeeds because the random freaks out and incidentally spills their entire wine glass all over him.
Whitley slinks off to change, giving Weiss a straight shot up the staircase into the restricted portion of the live-in trophy cabinet. Unfortunately for Weiss, the thing Ruby is finding uproariously funny is that the hemline of Weiss' dress was in the wine splash zone. Poor Weiss.
The other two Councillors are pushing back on Ironwood for the border closure, which is probably why Jacques invited them along. Winter's silently unhappy about her boss being questioned like this, which makes me question her suitability to sit in on a meeting where everybody darn well knew it was going to happen. Robyn jumps on the bandwagon to press Ironwood about his secrecy. Jacques drives the bandwagon on (I'm guessing that's why he invited Robyn) by just-asking-questions about the Mantle massacres that we know he doesn't really care about. Ironwood is being repeatedly run over by the bandwagon.
Clover says the Mantle massacres are an ongoing investigation and its details are classified, giving Jacques a golden opening to take Robyn's line of attack and run with it. Robyn is surprised to hear that even the Council doesn't know what the Amity project is about. So are we - we know they were told about the project because Ironwood said as much in Chapter 4, but apparently he only told them the minimum details (i.e. launch site location), because he didn't have to get their approval or anything.
Ironwood flails around trying to defend Amity's secrecy. When Jacques insinuates Ironwood doesn't trust them, Winter finally snaps. This will be painful to listen to. ...I was half right, Winter only says one sentence but Jacques twists it right back around onto Ironwood. Ironwood has to restrain Winter from digging a deeper hole for her whole end of the table. Winter instead leaves to collect herself. It may already be too late.
Weiss stalks through the halls of the trophy cabinet, deflecting overly-friendly servers (people, not electronics - although wouldn't that be funny). Eventually she gets to Jacques' main study, lets herself in, and breathes a sigh of relief. She has evidently completely forgotten her situational awareness because she somehow didn't notice I'm-guessing-that's-her-mother already in there.
Penny has made some excuse and come to check on Winter. Winter deflects that she was overcome by her emotions, and then puts her foot in it by suggesting that Penny wouldn't understand that. She (Winter) scrambles to clarify that she meant merely the context of the trophy cabinet.
What we learn here is that Penny couldn't do politics to save her life. This does not really help Winter in the moment.
This is Weiss' mother, and I think they both know that her "not feeling well" translates to 'busy drinking'.
Weiss makes a paper-thin excuse for why she's in the study, accidentally guilts herself, and gives up on the excuse and says she's looking for evidence of suspected but yet-unspecified wrongdoing. Her mother reckons that Jacques doing the wrong thing is priced in. When Weiss asserts she's trying to avert it, her mother sculls half a bottle of what I assume is fairly strong stuff, says that Jacques started locking his computer for presumably this reason, then reveals the camera she stuck in the upper corner behind his desk where he'd never look. Okay, apparently she's a real forward thinker and hid cameras everywhere.
And then this happens:
Now she's crying and I nearly am too.
As Weiss is given the video of Watts coming to visit (sadly I don't think she's ever seen Watts in Salem's service), her mother implores her to remember Whitley. Weiss' assertion that Whitley doesn't want that is met with "Of course not - you left him alone. With us." This gives Weiss a great deal to think about as she watches the video.
Smash cut from Watts on a Scroll screen in front of Weiss, to Watts on a roof in Mantle somewhere, doing Watts things. His Scroll has the Atlas/Mantle district map again, but in orange this time.
H*ck me, he's just shut down Mantle's heating grid as a snowstorm is blowing in. Increasingly brutal political satire continues (although I admit this one came in advance).
This may have been the biggest voice cast of all - twenty-six are listed.
Next time: You have the right to remain silent, and you should use it.
- Location
- Australia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't have time tonight to comment on the whole ep, but I will comment on a few bits before I go to bed.
Firstly, even the lines from Jacque in the meeting, while coming from an asshole who doesn't believe a word of it, have more validity than many realise. This is where we see that, with five seats on the council, James having two meant that even before the election, he's been able to get away with a lot of questionable behaviour because he only ever had to convince one other councillor to side with him. That has dangerous implications, and the rest of the government slapping him down now? It's honestly justified.
Years later, this line of Willows still infuriates me. While she is a victim of Jacques abuse, the fact is she passed it all along to her children while retreating into a bottle. Weiss had no way to get Whitley out with her when she escaped with nothing more than she could carry, and Willows attempt here to foist blame for her own actions and inactions onto her her daughter makes me want to scream.
Yep, a full year before the Texas blizzards and blackouts, which RT was in the middle of. An episode of V8 was even delayed a week due to the studios and staffs homes being without power, which gave them far more immediate and important priorities than putting the finishing touches on the episode. And naturally led to elements of the hatedom accusing them of laziness.
Firstly, even the lines from Jacque in the meeting, while coming from an asshole who doesn't believe a word of it, have more validity than many realise. This is where we see that, with five seats on the council, James having two meant that even before the election, he's been able to get away with a lot of questionable behaviour because he only ever had to convince one other councillor to side with him. That has dangerous implications, and the rest of the government slapping him down now? It's honestly justified.
Years later, this line of Willows still infuriates me. While she is a victim of Jacques abuse, the fact is she passed it all along to her children while retreating into a bottle. Weiss had no way to get Whitley out with her when she escaped with nothing more than she could carry, and Willows attempt here to foist blame for her own actions and inactions onto her her daughter makes me want to scream.
Yep, a full year before the Texas blizzards and blackouts, which RT was in the middle of. An episode of V8 was even delayed a week due to the studios and staffs homes being without power, which gave them far more immediate and important priorities than putting the finishing touches on the episode. And naturally led to elements of the hatedom accusing them of laziness.
Last edited:
LordDarthYoda
#1 Jenova's Witness
- Location
- The Bottomless Pit
Willow's name was actually hinted at way back when, Monty shared a screenshot with a list of names between v2 and 3 that included it.
dragonx99
Actually Satan
I do have to admit, that line really rubs me the wrong way, and I think it might be specifically because it comes from Willow. There's a segment of the fandom that liked to argue even before this scene that Weiss had done something wrong leaving Whitley there and I just have never understood what they expected of her.
Weiss had no way of getting herself and Whitley both out from inside of the manor, primarily because Whitley at the time had no desire To leave the Schnee household. This might not have gone well for him in the time since, but when she left Whitley thought he had everything that he ever wanted in the palm of his hand. I suppose one could argue that she should have tried to convince him for his own sake...
But at the time he had already proven that he would go to their father if he got any information on her that Jacques didn't like, and so she couldn't take that risk.
And I think that I would have been fine with that being a conversation in universe, assuming that Weiss did get to defend herself and assert the need to save herself first, but not from Willow of all people. Because Willow here admits that she knows she is terrible for her children and is bringing them suffering, and she has done all of nothing to fix her damn self. It honestly makes me feel less sympathy for her than before because at least before one could assume that she was too lost in the sauce to realize what she was doing. But no, apparently she is fully aware of it, she just doesn't care except past taking a shot at one of her kids.
And yet the scene lets her get the last word in, once again implying that we are meant to be agreeing with the person being a terrible parent like back with Tai and Yang.
- Location
- Australia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
There are people who've made that claim, but thankfully the majority of reactions I've seen were 'she just couldn't resist being a bitch to the one that managed to escape'
hellgodsrus
Actual Real Game Dev!
- Location
- Behind You
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hmm. For once Matrix I'm going to disagree with you?
Like, this seems like a terribly uncharitable interpretation. Obviously there's problems with what Willow said (what was Weiss meant to do?) but there's also, uh, a level of truth to it? Of course Whitley doesn't trust Weiss he's been consistently under Jacques' thumb for longer. Also I think the idea that this is a shot at Weiss for leaving in general or some evil manipulation is completely undercut by her being happy Weiss isn't back to stay, and her genuine hurt at some of the things Weiss says - on top of that it ignores the fact that she too is subject to abuse and addiction and even if she is aware enough to realise she's not helpful she might not have the energy to do anything, but still had enough energy to put cameras everywhere 'in case he - ' (presumably became regularly physically abusive to the children). Is Willow the perfect mother, 10/10? No. Could Weiss really have done anything to 'save' Whitley? No. But she isn't wrong to say Weiss/the Fandom as a whole were treating an abused fourteen year old kid as 'actually as bad as his abuser', which is absurd.
Maybe she's very used to ignoring her to avoid dealing with her mother's drunkenness?
She's a depressed drunk, likely filled with self loathing about her ability to deal with anything, so likely felt like doing nothing was the best she could do to avoid making it worse. She just wanted to remind her daughter that Whitely is being hurt too.
Mizu
Software Developer
- Location
- Victoria, Australia
Wow, that's some dumb people. If your house and workplace is without power then you can't keep making a video, by definition; that needs electricity.
- Location
- Australia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
These were people who literally complained in Kerry's announcement tweet about the delay that it was unacceptable because it meant they'd have to delay their 'superior rewrite' of the ep. Entitled dumbasses are indeed dumb
Voting Power Indices, or The Problem With The Atlas Council
michaelb958
(Verified Michael)
- Location
- Wherever I am, there I am
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I'm not even going to touch the Willow debate, mainly because I've been nerd-sniped:
Let's talk about voting power indices.
The study of weighted voting games - where unequal players must agree - goes back to at least the 1950s. So do their practical applications: In 1958, the Treaty of Rome created the European Economic Community, its six member states having unequal voices. France, (West) Germany, and Italy each had a vote weight of 4; Belgium and Netherlands, 2 each; Luxembourg, 1. Proposals required 12 votes, and either four countries or originating in the European Commission, to pass. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that Luxembourg was marginalised for Commission proposals.
The Atlas Council is even less complicated than that. There are theoretically five seats on the Council: Ironwood holds two; Camilla, Schnee, and Sleet hold 1 each. I assume that proposals pass by majority vote (quota 3), and that Ironwood will never split his votes. This translates to the weighted voting game
The Shapley-Shubik power index is calculated by checking every permutation of voters and keeping a running total of their vote weights. In each permutation, the voter who provides the votes that pass the quota is called the pivot, and a voter's power index is the proportion of the time that they are the pivot. There are twenty-four permutations of four voters, but as three of those voters are indistinguishable, we can take shortcuts:
The Banzhaf power index is calculated by checking winning coalitions of voters, where a coalition is any group of voters who collectively have a quota. Each voter in a winning coalition who has enough votes to turn it non-winning if they leave is called a decisive voter; a voter's power index is the proportion of all key voters across all coalitions who are them. The following are winning coalitions of the Atlas Council:
The Deegan-Packel power index is calculated by checking minimal winning coalitions, which are the ones where all voters in the coalition are decisive. A voter's power index is the proportion of all voters across all minimal winning coalitions who are them, weighted in each case by the reciprocal (1-divided-by) of the number of voters in the coalition. Let's check those two minimal winning coalitions on the Atlas Council again:
There are probably more indices out there, but Shapley-Shubik and Banzhaf are the main ones: it was already getting tricky to figure out Deegan-Packel.
The message here (if you ignore the pesky Deegan-Packel) is that Ironwood's outsized vote weight actually gives him even more outsized power than it suggests at a glance. I think Deegan-Packel focuses on the leverage each voter has in hyper-marginal situations, which is probably valid, but isn't the situation I'm analysing here - I'm looking more at who's most worth lobbying to pass things. It is up to you to decide if that previous sentence amounts to 'I'm ignoring this data point because it disagrees with my hypothesis'.
Now consider one of the other Council seats falling vacant. A majority of 4 votes is still 3, but now Ironwood has 2 of them (50.00%) to everyone else's 2 combined (1 (25.00%) each). It is immediately apparent that Ironwood has a veto: nothing happens without his approval.
Let's run the power indices. Shapley-Shubik:
Banzhaf:
Deegan-Packel: The only minimal winning coalition is Ironwood and one other, occurring twice. Ironwood gets 0.5 points twice for 1 point (50.00%), the others get 0.5 each (25.00%). I really don't believe that Deegan-Packel is a very good index.
I also believe that Shapley-Shubik and Banzhaf both underestimate Ironwood's veto power here. I've run the numbers for Banzhaf, and I think this is a result of the low number of voters (three): The Banzhaf power of a veto quickly approaches 100% as the number of voters increases.
If you instead consider the case of two simultaneous Council vacancies, Ironwood becomes a de jure dictator, with 2 votes to the other Councillor's 1. All three indices, by the definition of being voting power indices, give answers of Ironwood 100%:
One should beware of blindly applying voting power indices. For instance, many an analysis has used Banzhaf to proclaim that the US Electoral College as currently implemented unfairly empowers larger states, ignoring the implication that California should be the most hotly contested state. It's not, because votes are not coin flips, and state votes (aggregates of individual votes) moreso. California gets little attention because it is a safe state that one side has basically guaranteed and the other can never hope to gain. This is an example of a factor that power indices cannot account for. (To apply this factor to our example here, Ironwood is the most useful Councillor to convince because he has more votes, but that won't help you lobby for a measure to limit Ironwood's power.) They are still a useful tool in analysing unequal voting arrangements, if you keep their shortcomings in mind.
You're telling me there's actually only five of them? That the entire Atlas Council is seated in this very dining room?
Let's talk about voting power indices.
The study of weighted voting games - where unequal players must agree - goes back to at least the 1950s. So do their practical applications: In 1958, the Treaty of Rome created the European Economic Community, its six member states having unequal voices. France, (West) Germany, and Italy each had a vote weight of 4; Belgium and Netherlands, 2 each; Luxembourg, 1. Proposals required 12 votes, and either four countries or originating in the European Commission, to pass. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that Luxembourg was marginalised for Commission proposals.
The Atlas Council is even less complicated than that. There are theoretically five seats on the Council: Ironwood holds two; Camilla, Schnee, and Sleet hold 1 each. I assume that proposals pass by majority vote (quota 3), and that Ironwood will never split his votes. This translates to the weighted voting game
[3; 2, 1, 1, 1]. This is simple enough that calculations can be done by hand, so I have. Compare the below results to the vote weights: Ironwood 40.00%, others 20.00% each.The Shapley-Shubik power index is calculated by checking every permutation of voters and keeping a running total of their vote weights. In each permutation, the voter who provides the votes that pass the quota is called the pivot, and a voter's power index is the proportion of the time that they are the pivot. There are twenty-four permutations of four voters, but as three of those voters are indistinguishable, we can take shortcuts:
- There are six permutations where Ironwood (2 votes) is first. In this case, whoever is second provides vote #3 and is the pivot. Two points each (one-third of six).
- There are six permutations where Ironwood is second, and provides votes #2 and #3. Six points to him.
- There are six permutations where Ironwood is third, and provides votes #3 and #4. Six points to him.
- Finally, there are six permutations where Ironwood is fourth. In this case, whoever is third provides vote #3. Two points each.
The Banzhaf power index is calculated by checking winning coalitions of voters, where a coalition is any group of voters who collectively have a quota. Each voter in a winning coalition who has enough votes to turn it non-winning if they leave is called a decisive voter; a voter's power index is the proportion of all key voters across all coalitions who are them. The following are winning coalitions of the Atlas Council:
- Everybody. There's nobody with enough votes to be decisive here, so we just shrug and move on.
- Ironwood and two others. Ironwood is decisive. This occurs three times because there are three possibilities to be the voter against. Three points to Ironwood.
- Ironwood and one other. Both are decisive. This occurs three times, for similar reasons. Three points to Ironwood, one to each other Councillor.
- Everybody but Ironwood. They're all decisive, one point each.
The Deegan-Packel power index is calculated by checking minimal winning coalitions, which are the ones where all voters in the coalition are decisive. A voter's power index is the proportion of all voters across all minimal winning coalitions who are them, weighted in each case by the reciprocal (1-divided-by) of the number of voters in the coalition. Let's check those two minimal winning coalitions on the Atlas Council again:
- Ironwood and one other. 0.5 points each, three times: 1.5 points to Ironwood, 0.5 to each other.
- Everybody but Ironwood. 0.33 points each.
There are probably more indices out there, but Shapley-Shubik and Banzhaf are the main ones: it was already getting tricky to figure out Deegan-Packel.
The message here (if you ignore the pesky Deegan-Packel) is that Ironwood's outsized vote weight actually gives him even more outsized power than it suggests at a glance. I think Deegan-Packel focuses on the leverage each voter has in hyper-marginal situations, which is probably valid, but isn't the situation I'm analysing here - I'm looking more at who's most worth lobbying to pass things. It is up to you to decide if that previous sentence amounts to 'I'm ignoring this data point because it disagrees with my hypothesis'.
Now consider one of the other Council seats falling vacant. A majority of 4 votes is still 3, but now Ironwood has 2 of them (50.00%) to everyone else's 2 combined (1 (25.00%) each). It is immediately apparent that Ironwood has a veto: nothing happens without his approval.
Let's run the power indices. Shapley-Shubik:
- Two permutations where Ironwood is first: Whoever's second is the pivot. One point each.
- Two permutations where Ironwood is second: He's the pivot. Two points.
- Two permutations where Ironwood is third: He's still the pivot. Two points.
Banzhaf:
- Everybody. Ironwood is decisive. One point to him. ('Ironwood is decisive in a coalition of everybody' is another way to say "Ironwood has a veto".)
- Ironwood and one other. They're both decisive. Occurs twice. Two points to Ironwood, one point to each other.
Deegan-Packel: The only minimal winning coalition is Ironwood and one other, occurring twice. Ironwood gets 0.5 points twice for 1 point (50.00%), the others get 0.5 each (25.00%). I really don't believe that Deegan-Packel is a very good index.
I also believe that Shapley-Shubik and Banzhaf both underestimate Ironwood's veto power here. I've run the numbers for Banzhaf, and I think this is a result of the low number of voters (three): The Banzhaf power of a veto quickly approaches 100% as the number of voters increases.
If you instead consider the case of two simultaneous Council vacancies, Ironwood becomes a de jure dictator, with 2 votes to the other Councillor's 1. All three indices, by the definition of being voting power indices, give answers of Ironwood 100%:
- Shapley-Shubik: Ironwood is the pivot in all (2) permutations.
- Banzhaf: Ironwood is the only decisive voter in any coalition.
- Deegan-Packel: The only minimal winning coalition is Ironwood alone.
One should beware of blindly applying voting power indices. For instance, many an analysis has used Banzhaf to proclaim that the US Electoral College as currently implemented unfairly empowers larger states, ignoring the implication that California should be the most hotly contested state. It's not, because votes are not coin flips, and state votes (aggregates of individual votes) moreso. California gets little attention because it is a safe state that one side has basically guaranteed and the other can never hope to gain. This is an example of a factor that power indices cannot account for. (To apply this factor to our example here, Ironwood is the most useful Councillor to convince because he has more votes, but that won't help you lobby for a measure to limit Ironwood's power.) They are still a useful tool in analysing unequal voting arrangements, if you keep their shortcomings in mind.
- Location
- Australia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yuuuuuuuup. That's the entire top tier of government.
V07C09 As Above, So Below
michaelb958
(Verified Michael)
- Location
- Wherever I am, there I am
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
V07C09 As Above, So Below
"(upbeat pop music)" say the subtitles. I'll never understand how those work.
At Pietro's clinic, he and Maria stare up at Atlas as people in the clinic wonder what happened to the heating grid.
Meanwhile at the Schnee live-in trophy cabinet, the Council continues to be skeptical of Ironwood holding two seats. Rightly so, but throwing him out now just empowers Jacques Schnee. Ironwood defends himself with the magic phrase "checks and balances", which doesn't work because he's being ignoring them a bit lately, they're unhappy about that, and Jacques stuck a lightning rod in.
At this point Jacques is delivered a discreet verbal message by one of the trophy cabinet staff. We don't know the message, but I'm guessing it's about the heating, and whatever happened appeared to happen with his personal authorisation. He doesn't believe it, and it throws him off-balance in the verbal tug-of-war he's already part of. It is blatantly obvious to everybody that he's not used to juggling two or more threads when one of them is made of his equals, and they're not impressed.
Unfortunately for Ironwood, Robyn is here to take up the slack against him. He says he's not hiding anything, which is a massive blunder because Robyn has a lie-detecting Semblance and the Council aren't about to let him back out of this one.
Fortunately for Ironwood, Weiss is here with the receipts. And holy cow are they receipts. Jacques Schnee and the thought-dead Arthur Watts caught on tape conspiring to commit election fraud, reckless cybersecurity violations (sharing admin passwords), and whatever else Watts does with Jacques' admin password (because you bet the terms of service will let them pin it on Jacques). Depending on what else can be dug up on Watts, treason might be on the table. Depending on the outcome of the heating grid sabotage, maybe even felony murder - let's hope the prerequisite of somebody's death isn't satisfied.
Jacques, a gladhander if nothing else, tries to assert that this is doctored footage. His peers don't buy it. Then he attempts to flee, probably not a good move while trying to assert one's innocence - what was it Weiss said way back? "The innocent never run"? Surely Jacques was the one who taught her that. Anyway, he doesn't even get out the dining room door before finding Trailer Armour lurking behind it. He knows full well that Weiss summoned it.
Cut to Mantle, where Watts is busy admiring the snowfall to the extent that he's lost situational awareness and failed to detect a riot coalescing almost on top of him. ...Correction, it's exactly what he planned. Two soldiers call for backup to try to control it, but seem to get no answer, for which I also blame Watts. Also Tyrian's here, which is going to go badly for everybody.
Now back to Jacques Schnee's dining room, where the man himself has been corralled on a chair at the side of the room, surrounded by the rest of the Council and the rightful holder of his seat, not to mention Winter and Clover. (Team RWBY and Penny lurk off to the side.) Clover gets a call and wanders off to take it as Ironwood connects the dots between Watts, Tyrian, and now Jacques, regardless of what little defence the latter can put up.
You know how I said felony murder might be on the table? I'd actually forgotten about the election night massacre. (How callous of me.) Robyn has not. Tyrian did that, and Tyrian's connection to Watts means that Jacques is going to have real trouble for that in the court of public opinion even if not in a court of law. The Council will apparently push for the latter, not to mention treason.
Jacques, who really should have kept his mouth shut until he could consult with a lawyer, instead says, I kid you not, "I only intended to win the election". Robyn smashes a chair at that.
Ironwood explains that given time, Jacques' admin password will let Watts do whatever he wants, and speak of the devil, here's the notification that Mantle is going to freeze. Jacques, who really isn't that smart at criminal defence, keeps digging until Winter snaps and orders him to turn the heating back on. Jacques says they're locked out, because I'm guessing Watts changed everybody's passwords. It is made clear that people will freeze to death.
At Ruby's prompting, Ironwood searches the audit logs and concludes that 'Jacques' hasn't looked at anything about Amity. Yet. "But if he learns... She learns..." They can't lock Watts out, and they can't just trace his access point because he's not going to stand around like an idiot.
Everybody forgot about Robyn. Here's Robyn asking the important questions: how did Watts and Tyrian start working together, what do they have against Ironwood, and why exactly is Amity Communications Tower a national-security-grade secret from those two? It is a surprise to Ironwood (but not to Blake and Yang) that Robyn knows about the latter. Maybe Robyn shouldn't have said that much.
Now back to Mantle, where a robot patrol attempts to disperse a riot and gets dogpiled by citizens with improvised weapons. Right on cue, a red alert. I'm hoping this is a riot control measure, but I'm pretty sure it's 'just' a Grimm attack warning. ...Sometimes I hate being right. This attack wave is big enough that there's no hope of keeping even the small ones outside the breach in the wall.
Now back to the dining room, where Robyn is coming around to the idea that Ironwood is hiding the Amity project to protect something bigger than himself. Right on cue, Clover and Oscar burst in with the message of the Grimm attack - exactly what Ironwood feared (at least on this level of fear - subsequent levels will have to wait their turns).
Clover requests ground support in Mantle. Robyn requests full evacuation of Mantle. The latter would involve moving the fleet from Atlas, which is an idea that Ironwood doesn't like at all.
Ironwood has his own little mental breakdown. He's picked about the worst time to give up on his plan. Oscar has to reassure him somehow. Oscar's advice is to adapt to the circumstances. There's already panic, and the secrets will come out; best to control when they come out. If I'm thinking cynically, bundling the reveal with an existing Grimm crisis will cause people to get over the whole bundle at the speed of the crisis they're familiar with, which will be reasonably fast.
With Oscar to provide the plan and Ruby to provide the optimism, they shore up Ironwood. He directs the Hunters in the room, with the exception of Robyn, to leave on the transport Winter just called and reinforce Mantle. Meanwhile, the Council (sans Jacques) and Robyn will be briefed on what is strongly implied to be Salem. Cue major-key remix of the last part of the V6 title song (or is it the V7 title song?) as the Hunters leave the room at speed.
On the way outside, Ruby and Oscar (the latter is instead returning to Atlas Academy) talk over and around each other a bit before managing to discover that they agree that they should brief Ironwood on the full Salem story: now seems to be the time to choose truth over fear. Marrow is exasperated that Ruby's holding up the transport.
On the transport, Clover reminds everyone forcefully to prioritize the safety of civilians over killing Grimm. The best time for Nora and Ren to hold hands and make up was multiple Chapters ago, but the second best time is right now, so now they are.
Back at the trophy cabinet, the Council (and Robyn) are in the hallway outside the dining room processing what they've just been told about a queen of the Grimm.
Inside the dining room, Oscar is giving Ironwood the full story, and neither of them like it very much. Ironwood is very not sure how to handle the knowledge that he's working towards an impossible goal. After a moment, he decides to handle it one step at a time. Step one: save Mantle.
Oscar reassures him some more. Ironwood thinks he sounds like Ozpin. They both leave for the Academy, commiserating that they don't think they could handle any more surprises.
Now back to the transport, where a Grimm is latched onto the front. Evasive maneuvers fail to dislodge it (oh hey Jaune airsickness jokes, how long have you been waiting?) before another dive-bombs past and takes a chunk out of one wing. Everybody bails on the way down, some in character-matching pairs (Harriet & Ruby; Clover & Qrow).
Now back to the trophy cabinet, where Jacques is manhandled out the front door into a police van, protesting all the way. Whitley and Willow have very mixed feelings about this. One of the staff seems much happier, and I think I recall her being emphasised once earlier. She enters a secure room somewhere. Oh gods oh h*ck this will be Neopolitan. Yep, and Cinder too. Apparently Neo found whatever they were looking for. That can't be good.
Next time: High-quality bait.
LordDarthYoda
#1 Jenova's Witness
- Location
- The Bottomless Pit
Really nice subtle touch is before this chapter the camera would be angled so Jacques was looking down at the audience. But with this chapter they change it so now we're properly looking down on him.
And yeah Winter bumps into that same staff member leaving the dinner last chapter. So Neo's been lurking for awhile apparently.
And yeah Winter bumps into that same staff member leaving the dinner last chapter. So Neo's been lurking for awhile apparently.
Last edited:
I'll add Ironwood having two seats pretty much forces the others into a more adversarial stance; due to the above power imbalance, the most natural counter is the other three forming an alliance on the grounds of 'do we want Ironwood decided everything?'. Cases where one would normally peel off are stopped because they have a deal where 'I can't peel off here or X would peel off on my thing.'
Doing so makes Ironwood's power less outsized but also negatively affects relationships between him and everyone else as 'everyone but Ironwood' votes become more common, which is I believe what happened.
That's why Ironwood felt the need for more power despite the second vote; he defacto arranged everyone against him leading to increasing dysfunction.
Doing so makes Ironwood's power less outsized but also negatively affects relationships between him and everyone else as 'everyone but Ironwood' votes become more common, which is I believe what happened.
That's why Ironwood felt the need for more power despite the second vote; he defacto arranged everyone against him leading to increasing dysfunction.
SolipsistSerpent
Endlessly Devouring
It's worse than that. To put something from the voting council update in plainer text: Every other member of the council can get anything they want done if they get one councilman to agree with them if that one councilman is Ironwood. Can you imagine how sought after his vote must be by the other members? Under normal circumstances, anyway.,
I would not at all be surprised if his current bouts of paranoid erraticism had let to the situation described by @Q99 above lately, which would no doubt seem like bizarre reversal to him.
Last edited:
V07C10 Out in the Open
michaelb958
(Verified Michael)
- Location
- Wherever I am, there I am
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
V07C10 Out in the Open
There are, to put it lightly, a h*ck of a lot of Grimm in Mantle, even before the big ones start reaching the breach, which they are now doing. It's so bad that aircraft are firing into the city despite the risk of collateral civilian casualties. Our protagonists are doing their best, but it's like bailing with a thimble.
Remember when Goliaths were a threat far away on the horizon, even from Mountain Glenn? Well here they are. Blake baits one into chasing her, and gets it to trample on a smaller Grimm and bounce off a building on its way to Elm, who sends it airborne for Yang to safely blow up.
Clover receives new orders, which we don't get to hear, and takes Qrow with him.
Nora is caught in front of a crowd who are panicking about their overall chance of survival in Mantle. Fortunately for all involved, there is now a broadcast from Robyn to grab their attention. She's with Ironwood, holding his hand to act as a visible indicator that he tells no lies.
Ironwood launches into the Salem speech. I see this is our episode title reference. He continues on to name her lackeys, intercut with our protagonists fighting Grimm and said lackeys being a bit irritated that they've lost the advantage of secrecy.
As Jaune uses his hard-won experience with herding children to get the children to shame the adults into also being herded out of danger, Ironwood goes on to break open Amity's veil of secrecy. Watts is a bit miffed to have missed that. Then Ironwood drops the big bombshell that everybody's being evacuated from Mantle to Atlas. He might not have needed to say that he was leaving Amity undefended, and I hope he realised Watts and Tyrian would hear that because otherwise it's exceptionally silly of him.
Robyn takes over the metaphorical microphone to declare that she fully supports Ironwood's plan. Suffice to say that the mood in Mantle will no longer draw Grimm.
Tyrian is losing it: "The Grimm should have destroyed our enemies, not made them friends!!" Music to my ears. Watts reckons he can salvage this, and orders Tyrian to sow whatever chaos he can to create a distraction.
Cinder is also furious: as far as anyone told her back when they still told her things, Vacuo was meant to be the next target (this matches with what Salem was about to say in V06C04 before Hazel said anything about Ozpin), so she's not happy that Tyrian and Watts have turned up to run over her plans. Cinder alters the plan: first, steal the Relic of Knowledge from Oscar, then kill Ruby. Neopolitan is not happy to hear that. Cinder, meanwhile, will be going Winter-Maiden-hunting. Oh joy. /s
The evacuation has begun, punctuated by Penny being let out to protect. At one landing site, Blake and Yang watch on as Elm reveals that her hammer is also a missile launcher that kills Goliaths.
Near another, Ruby and Harriet can only watch as the aircraft is swatted aside by a particularly goliath Goliath. Penny arrives to help Harriet fight it; Ruby just shuts her eyes, leading me to believe that she's about to petrify it. She can't get the mindset, so she joins the fight.
The fight goes poorly - Penny is sent hurtling into a nearby street. Ruby goes to check on her, and we have a brief Penny death scare. Fortunately, Penny is fine, and Ruby has a plan.
Harriet's Aura flickers - or maybe even breaks - as the Goliath almost stomps on her. Penny diverts its attention with lasers, which bother it but can't stop it - but they can damage part of one of its huge tusks. When Penny shuts off the lasers, Ruby snaps off the tusk at the new weak point, Penny ensures it lands heavily in the road point-up, and Ruby trips the beastie onto the tusk to impale it. It dies.
Penny's reputation is restored.
Penny reports success to Robyn, who acknowledges, then delegates Joanna to escort the current group while she checks for stragglers. I fear Tyrian is coming for her. Yep, there he is.
Tyrian nonchalantly dodges or catches in flight Robyn's crossbow bolts while he monologues. Then he begins his attack run, only to have to cancel when a fishing hook comes for him. Robyn gets to monologue now as Clover and Qrow land. Clover and Qrow then get their own lines. It is unclear whether Tyrian will cut his losses against three professionals, or resume his attack anyway.
Watts is on Amity. I don't like the look of that either. I hope he's being honeypotted. He reckons it doesn't look as finished as Ironwood says it was, and I agree. Probably being honeypotted.
The arena doors all shut, trapping Watts there. Yep, it was bait and he took it. Ironwood is in the old commentary booth. Watts has just realised it was bait, in as many words. Ironwood leaps out into the arena. It appears they will be fighting mano a mano.
(checks) While Ironwood was talking about Amity, the lie-detection was not visible. Well played.
Watts monologues for a bit about how Amity was always a technological marvel, then does his thing to exploit it. The arena selects four biomes, all of which are floating platforms that look somewhat like a stock Atlas training environment. Watts declines to let Ironwood just shoot him and pulls his own big ol' handgun. {{I have been told that this is the fabled gun-gun.}}
Credits: I was pretty sure I recognised Elm's voice actor, so I looked her up. Turns out she voiced Ren's mother in V04C10, which probably explains it.
Next time: Cinder does it again.
dragonx99
Actually Satan
Sir, I am not sure that term means what you think it means.
And on another dully personal note, I've always been disappointed that during none of the training sections after the silver eyes got revealed did they sit Ruby down and have her practice getting them ready to fire on command. I do understand that she has multiple things that need to be worked on and it is a matter of priorities, I just still feel that the anti-Grimm ability should merit at least some time dedicated to it.