Remove ads

Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

Reader mode
Mr.rodent said:
But as stated before we have a solid build now that's pretty balanced . With movement arts , an atk art etc.

Once we have turtle out and about as a tank things will be significantly easier for us.

As stated before I think its time to get more support abilities (you know our specialty ) preferably wind aligned to make our tanky turtle faster or what not as well as have more option on what to use during combat situations . We are support exotic and we only have 1 buff, for shame
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We have three. Argent Mirror and Sable Step are self-buff.
 
Mr.rodent said:
As stated before I think its time to get more support abilities (you know our specialty ) preferably wind aligned to make our tanky turtle faster or what not as well as have more option on what to use during combat situations . We are support exotic and we only have 1 buff, for shame
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That will be a hard sell. There are a lot of voters that very vocally hate the fact that we are a support/exotic specialist and rather want us to forget it for punchsplosion and fireballs.
 
Mr.rodent said:
I meant buffs that we can also use on others ..
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well be specific. We're a buff and exotic specialist. Not a buff other specialist. We are good at buffing others, but that's no more inherently appealing then any other aspect of our specialty, and at this point we've had as many by ourselves fights as group fights.
 
Last edited:
We may or may not have a hole any more (I'd still like ASA but I'm not going to keep pushing it another week) but we need to replace Zephyr's Breath.

So, yeah, we need to hit up the library next week for a replacement for ZB. Yes, I know, lots of things to train.

I'm about five nineths of certain that a Heart/Heart floor two art will be better at level 1 than ZB at at level three.
 
Alectai said:
Nope, I sure as hell won't.

Because we don't have a critical hole anymore. We have a tool for any reasonable situation now, and remaining Arts can be chosen purely on the grounds of what would be cool, and what would be effective, and what would be upgrades to what we already have.

Like, a dedicated Melee Art would be nice, but as we are now, it's very difficult to force us into melee to begin with. I'd still be interested in ASA or something similiar, but that's less "Closing a hole" and more "Polishing the build"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Hmm. At the very least, I think we have two major holes in our build that we will want to fill soonish.

First, we still don't have a way to use FVM in conjugation with anything that requires arms. So for one thing, if we decide that keeping FVM up is a priority, then once we run out of FVM effects to stack we have nothing to do with our actions other than ducking and hiding. For another thing, we can't use the range/weapon/art advantage of using a bow unless we stop maintaining FVM, which that if circumstances require us to keep the mist up we lose quite a bit of flexibility. This may be mitigated in future by FVM gaining a direct attack tech or the ability to pick up our tune where we last left off, but the former is only a partial fix and the latter is being somewhat optimistic.

Second, if we come up against someone with an environmental dispel who can no-sell our mist, we have a serious problem - because not only does it shut down all the DoT/debuff effects of FVM, it also shuts down SCS.
 
I would be okay with filling a card or two with Formless Shade once we are at Mid-Yellow, sure. It is useful to have on hand if we need to save 8 qi (presumably because qi-restoration pills aren't going to get us far enough for a given event). It is also something that we can lend to allies, letting us use up Qi-card durability to overcome obstacles as a group instead of as an individual.

Not sure how likely we are to need it, but I can see it being useful enough to store.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Hmm. At the very least, I think we have two major holes in our build that we will want to fill soonish.

First, we still don't have a way to use FVM in conjugation with anything that requires arms. So for one thing, if we decide that keeping FVM up is a priority, then once we run out of FVM effects to stack we have nothing to do with our actions other than ducking and hiding. For another thing, we can't use the range/weapon/art advantage of using a bow unless we stop maintaining FVM, which that if circumstances require us to keep the mist up we lose quite a bit of flexibility. This may be mitigated in future by FVM gaining a direct attack tech or the ability to pick up our tune where we last left off, but the former is only a partial fix and the latter is being somewhat optimistic.

Second, if we come up against someone with an environmental dispel who can no-sell our mist, we have a serious problem - because not only does it shut down all the DoT/debuff effects of FVM, it also shuts down SCS.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I sort of think 'shroud' us in darkness' is a specific enough effect that we should just commission our armor to do it. Have it bleed darkness and shadow so that we always count as being in low light. Probably make us stick out like a sore thumb during the day but that's fine. Maybe long term we want a second leg art, but for now it's not essential.
 
Next week's plan, because I liked doing it for this week. Especially since it meant that my vote was ready to go even though I'd just gone to sleep when the update dropped.

[] Cultivate on your own
-[] Eight Phase Ceremony
[] Train at the vent with Suyin and Su Ling
-[] Spiritual
[] Train with Bai Meizhen
-[] Physical
[] Train by hunting with Han Jian and his group
-[] Falling Stars Art
-[] Try to convince them to hunt down the wolf pack with you?
[] Take a job
-[] Specify

Basically the same as the winning vote for this week. Base cultivations and Eight Phase Ceremony are absolutely necessary, and we might as well keep training Falling Stars Art until it hits a meridian barrier. If there's a new unique job, I'd probably take that. Otherwise, Hard Hunting Mission is 10 points, too. I'm guessing a lot of people will suggest going to the archive instead, but I don't think it's going to be worthwhile to go for another art just yet. Not while Falling Stars Art is still low-level.

Depending on how good Falling Stars Art turns out to be, it may be worthwhile attempting to get the Han Jian Gang to help with the Starlit Meadow. We'd probably want to get the rest of our little circle -- Bai Meizhen, Li Suyin, Su Ling -- involved, although given it took three to take down a single Grade 2 this turn (the Black Steel Bear), even that may not be enough yet.

For the minors, all I know is I want to take a Su Ling action.
 
Last edited:
PrimalShadow said:
It should be noted that we do NOT have a soak for all intents and purposes. Formless Shade grants one dice of soak for four turns at the cost of a full action and eight Qi. Note that absorbing a point of damage each turn for four turns is by itself worth eight Qi, so tanking one damage with Qi each turn is cheaper than using the Technique by a full action. And it only works on physical damage, which means spiritual arts will typically work.

That's not to say that Formless Shade is useless. It has significant utility uses, it has value as a "Hail Mary" if we get hit by a movement-restriction that we need to get out of, and if we find ourselves in the uncomfortable situation of facing enough physical attacks each turn to assume that we will take damage from multiple sources a turn we can reduce the impact of said dame somewhat. Also, in some cases Formless Shade's can probably reduce damage that would not be reducible by Qi-armor.

But yeah. A general combat-capable soak, this technique is not.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You are ignoring the thrust of @Alectai's argument, given he was referencing FSA, an art we haven't yet learned, as plugging an hole.

Formless shade is a general, combat-capable soak. It's just not efficient right now. It has the same weaknesses Crescent Grace had when we got it, except at the time we didn't have anything else: it is very expensive and not instant.

However, it also does superb general soak abilities. Maybe I am misreading it, and I'd like @yrsillar to clarify, but it seems to ignore the damage. Given that it also seems to be about escaping traps and so on, this might mean that unlike qi reduction, it can cancels debuff that would otherwise hit. For example, against the wind works even if we do 0 damage after Qi reduction, and Dissonance works (the-1 from damage) even if the enemy has armour and gets 0 damage. I strongly suspect Formless Shade cancels those.

It fits what one want as a soak for a high-movement and high-dodge tank like Ling Qi: the damage we take is less important then being hit by debuff which would mess up our future dodge, so it's better to have much less soak but a soak that also cancels debuff if it manages to negates all the damage.

Beside, like crescent grace and trackless escape improves each level, Formless Shade is only going to be stronger.

So, yeah, it's going to be a great combat-capable general soak.
TheLastOne said:
Well be specific. We're a buff and exotic specialist. Not a buff other specialist. We are good at buffing others, but that's no more inherently appealing then any other aspect of our specialty, and at this point we've had as many by ourselves fights as group fights.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Actually, no, we are a buff other specialist. There is a reason why self-buff don't trigger out talent, but buff others do.
PrimalShadow said:
Second, if we come up against someone with an environmental dispel who can no-sell our mist, we have a serious problem - because not only does it shut down all the DoT/debuff effects of FVM, it also shuts down SCS.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It doesn't. Crescent Grace continues for its first four turn. It's activating it that needs low light and darkness, but once it's there it doesn't care.
 
Last edited:
pheonix89 said:
We may or may not have a hole any more (I'd still like ASA but I'm not going to keep pushing it another week) but we need to replace Zephyr's Breath.

So, yeah, we need to hit up the library next week for a replacement for ZB. Yes, I know, lots of things to train.

I'm about five nineths of certain that a Heart/Heart floor two art will be better at level 1 than ZB at at level three.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't think we want to start replacing arts until we hit our Meridian cap. Even if ZB isn't phenomenal, it does give us reasonably good things: two dice to all of our attacks (since we really only use ranged attacks), two dice against enemy attacks, and an instant move to knock enemies near us out of melee and add additional defenses against projectiles. Maybe that wouldn't be worth the training we'd need at this point, and maybe once we run out of meridians we will want to equip something that gives a greater boost per slot, but for the moment having ZB equipped vs not is a difference of all of two actions (to unlock two meridians); and I don't think getting those meridians back without spending actions is worth more than the persistent bonus ZB gives us.

TheLastOne said:
We are good at buffing others, but that's no more inherently appealing then any other aspect of our specialty, and at this point we've had more as many by ourselves fights as group fights.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So far, here are the non-training fights I remember:
  • Group fight in the First Test (when we won the staff the first time)
  • Individual fight in the Second Test (when we pushed a peer down a well)
  • Individual fight in the Second Test (when we killed the spider which made reflections question us)
  • Group fight at the Vent (when we killed the Sediment Guardian)
  • Group fight at the Vent (when we repelled Huang Da)
  • Group fight in the Thunderdome (when we won the staff the second time)
  • Group fight in the Thunderdome (when we we and Meizhen got mobbed by Kang Zihao's pansies)
  • Individual fight in Serpent's Treasure (when we killed the Mimic Worm)
  • Group fight in Serpent's Treasure (when we killed the bat swarm)
  • Individual "fight" in Moonfill (when we played tag)
I've omitted hunting the doppelganger because taking down a single target a full cultivation stage below you is not a fight by any measure. I've also omitted stuff like the offscreen hunting with Han Jian, because again that can hardly be called a fight.


So we have almost as many individual fights as team fights, though we do still have more team fights.
 
Arkeus said:
You are ignoring the thrust of @Alectai's argument, given he was referencing FSA, an art we haven't yet learned, as plugging an hole.

Formless shade is a general, combat-capable soak. It's just not efficient right now. It has the same weaknesses Crescent Grace had when we got it, except at the time we didn't have anything else: it is very expensive and not instant.

However, it also does superb general soak abilities. Maybe I am misreading it, and I'd like @yrsillar to clarify, but it seems to ignore the damage. Given that it also seems to be about escaping traps and so on, this might mean that unlike qi reduction, it can cancels debuff that would otherwise hit. For example, against the wind works even if we do 0 damage after Qi reduction, and Dissonance works (the-1 from damage) even if the enemy has armour and gets 0 damage. I strongly suspect Formless Shade cancels those.

It fits what one want as a soak for a high-movement and high-dodge tank like Ling Qi: the damage we take is less important then being hit by debuff which would mess up our future dodge, so it's better to have much less soak but a soak that also cancels debuff if it manages to negates all the damage.

Beside, like crescent grace and trackless escape improves each level, Formless Shade is only going to be stronger.

So, yeah, it's going to be a great combat-capable general soak.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Err, 8 Qi for 4 turns, that's not really a general use soak. And considering SCS, I think it might get some extra turns and Instant, but probably still not something we want to generally maintain if we have Mist on. And when Mist is not applicable, well, we have to look for low light or darkness to activate the Technique.

Formless Shade use in combat is probably situational (Physical based damage DoT like Elegy? Escaping a mobility bind?), and even if it gets an Instant activation, Ling Qi might still decide to tank a 1 damage hit than activate an 6-8 Qi Technique. Heck, she might even prefer activating Crescent Grace instead.

There is also some observations that despite having Qi deflect damage, debuff on hits still applies. This might be the same with Soak.
 
TheLastOne said:
I sort of think 'shroud' us in darkness' is a specific enough effect that we should just commission our armor to do it. Have it bleed darkness and shadow so that we always count as being in low light. Probably make us stick out like a sore thumb during the day but that's fine. Maybe long term we want a second leg art, but for now it's not essential.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't know if that is an effect we can afford (either in terms of money or opportunity cost), but it is definitely worth considering.

Arkeus said:
You are ignoring the thrust of @Alectai's argument, given he was referencing FSA, an art we haven't yet learned, as plugging an hole.

Formless shade is a general, combat-capable soak. It's just not efficient right now. It has the same weaknesses Crescent Grace had when we got it, except at the time we didn't have anything else: it is very expensive and not instant.

However, it also does superb general soak abilities. Maybe I am misreading it, and I'd like @yrsillar to clarify, but it seems to ignore the damage. Given that it also seems to be about escaping traps and so on, this might mean that unlike qi reduction, it can cancels debuff that would otherwise hit. For example, against the wind works even if we do 0 damage after Qi reduction, and Dissonance works (the-1 from damage) even if the enemy has armour and gets 0 damage. I strongly suspect Formless Shade cancels those.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The debuffs we've seen so far proc on winning clashes, which happens regardless of what we do with the damage.
If you want something which cancel debuffs, the thing to do is to not get hit in the first place - which is why Crescent Grace's +4 dice (or a little under 2 successes) is so nice.

Arkeus said:
Beside, like crescent grace and trackless escape improves each level, Formless Shade is only going to be stronger.

So, yeah, it's going to be a great combat-capable general soak.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It might get better in the future, sure. It would have to up the soak to at least two and possibly go Instant, but I can see it being something we plop down at the start of a fight. Still, even then, it is going to be quite expensive as a pure soak; after all, our whole build is about not taking damage in the first place.

Now, if you factor in the movement-debuff resistance, I can see it getting great; still expensive, but nevertheless worth it.
 
PrimalShadow said:
I don't think we want to start replacing arts until we hit our Meridian cap. Even if ZB isn't phenomenal, it does give us reasonably good things: two dice to all of our attacks (since we really only use ranged attacks), two dice against enemy attacks, and an instant move to knock enemies near us out of melee and add additional defenses against projectiles. Maybe that wouldn't be worth the training we'd need at this point, and maybe once we run out of meridians we will want to equip something that gives a greater boost per slot, but for the moment having ZB equipped vs not is a difference of all of two actions (to unlock two meridians); and I don't think getting those meridians back without spending actions is worth more than the persistent bonus ZB gives us.


So far, here are the non-training fights I remember:
  • Group fight in the First Test (when we won the staff the first time)
  • Individual fight in the Second Test (when we pushed a peer down a well)
  • Individual fight in the Second Test (when we killed the spider which made reflections question us)
  • Group fight at the Vent (when we killed the Sediment Guardian)
  • Group fight at the Vent (when we repelled Huang Da)
  • Group fight in the Thunderdome (when we won the staff the second time)
  • Group fight in the Thunderdome (when we we and Meizhen got mobbed by Kang Zihao's pansies)
  • Individual fight in Serpent's Treasure (when we killed the Mimic Worm)
  • Group fight in Serpent's Treasure (when we killed the bat swarm)
  • Individual "fight" in Moonfill (when we played tag)
I've omitted hunting the doppelganger because taking down a single target a full cultivation stage below you is not a fight by any measure. I've also omitted stuff like the offscreen hunting with Han Jian, because again that can hardly be called a fight.


So we have almost as many individual fights as team fights, though we do still have more team fights.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Eh, I would count some of those fights together as they happened during the same event, and so were going off the same qi/health pool, but that doesn't really shift things much and so is nitpicky.
 
pheonix89 said:
We may or may not have a hole any more (I'd still like ASA but I'm not going to keep pushing it another week) but we need to replace Zephyr's Breath.

So, yeah, we need to hit up the library next week for a replacement for ZB. Yes, I know, lots of things to train.

I'm about five nineths of certain that a Heart/Heart floor two art will be better at level 1 than ZB at at level three.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
PrimalShadow said:
I don't think we want to start replacing arts until we hit our Meridian cap. Even if ZB isn't phenomenal, it does give us reasonably good things: two dice to all of our attacks (since we really only use ranged attacks), two dice against enemy attacks, and an instant move to knock enemies near us out of melee and add additional defenses against projectiles. Maybe that wouldn't be worth the training we'd need at this point, and maybe once we run out of meridians we will want to equip something that gives a greater boost per slot, but for the moment having ZB equipped vs not is a difference of all of two actions (to unlock two meridians); and I don't think getting those meridians back without spending actions is worth more than the persistent bonus ZB gives us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think 'Replacement ZB' is also 'upgrade ZB'. Upgrade is almost certainly going to either be a 'new art' that's a level 2 archive Heart/Heart that begins at yellow and basically gets ZB's bonus on top of what the art itself would give as we learned ZB, or it's a 'continuation' that begins at late red that's going to give bonus for having had ZB.

Most logical bonus are "-10 to DC for each levels" as it's very common, as well as "+1 effective level of the art" (as otherwise there would be no reason whatsoever for a late red disciple to not skip ZB3 and instead begin with the new one). Basically, we can expect to get ZB+ level 2 in a single action, which should be optimal if we want to clear the moon glade next week.

I'm quite confident that if Li Suyin/Su Ling have broken through to Yellow, we could get Meizhen+Cui+Li Suyin + Su Ling + Golden Field group for the moon glade, which should be the 9 of us against 15 spirits beasts, so very doable.
Grosstoad said:
There is also some observations that despite having Qi deflect damage, debuff on hits still applies. This might be the same with Soak.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
PrimalShadow said:
The debuffs we've seen so far proc on winning clashes, which happens regardless of what we do with the damage.
If you want something which cancel debuffs, the thing to do is to not get hit in the first place - which is why Crescent Grace's +4 dice (or a little under 2 successes) is so nice.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
As I said, it is the same on soak, but the wording on Formless Shade makes me think it doesn't apply to it.
 
Last edited:
I wonder how an upgrade Art would work...

Would it essentially replace the lower tier Art, with similar but better Techniques? Maybe only be learned if you have mastered the previous tier?
Would it be something that improves the lower tier Art, thus requiring the older Art to be still equipped?
 
Seventeen said:
For the minors, all I know is I want to take a Su Ling action.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We should bring her delicious meats, and have a chowdown pow-wow.

Somewhat more seriously (not really), I increasingly find myself of the opinion it's both a good idea, and IC for Ling Qi to begrudgingly thank muster creeper Huang Da for the assist/heads up about Su Ling and Li Suyin. That was no small matter, and gross weirdo in Ling Qi's eyes or no, he... hasn't really been that bad. He hasn't ambushed us/our friends, hasnt been associated with shotty attacks, and is way more open and upfront about his creepy oddities than he COULD have been. That giving him mulish thanks doubles as a check-in on him is just icing on the cake.

How'd'ya feel about that as one of the other minors, mister Aussiepants?
 
Arkeus said:
I'm quite confident that if Li Suyin/Su Ling have broken through to Yellow, we could get Meizhen+Cai+Li Suyin + Su Ling + Golden Field group for the moon glade, which should be the 9 of us against 15 spirits beasts, so very doable.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Remember that our goal in battle is asymmetric: we need to kill all or most of the wolves without anyone on our side dying. I think you would agree that losing any of our friends is not a fair trade for the Starlit Meadow, yes?

As a further note, I'm not sure how much of our group actually cares about the Meadow. Sun/Moon is moderately exotic, and Heaven is just one element out of the imperial 8; I wouldn't expect too many people have arts matching that. Even for someone with one matching art, fighting for the meadow might not be worth the risk; and what do we do about everyone else?


Frankly, I just don't buy that organizing this is worth the social capital it would burn, much less the risk to us and our friends if something goes wrong.
 
Bob's Beard said:
We should bring her delicious meats, and have a chowdown pow-wow.

Somewhat more seriously (not really), I increasingly find myself of the opinion it's both a good idea, and IC for Ling Qi to begrudgingly thank muster creeper Huang Da for the assist/heads up about Su Ling and Li Suyin. That was no small matter, and gross weirdo in Ling Qi's eyes or no, he... hasn't really been that bad. He hasn't ambushed us/our friends, hasnt been associated with shotty attacks, and is way more open and upfront about his creepy oddities than he COULD have been. That giving him mulish thanks doubles as a check-in on him is just icing on the cake.

How'd'ya feel about that as one of the other minors, mister Aussiepants?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Week 13 said:
"I thought not," he replied sadly. "But no. I require nothing of you, lovely Ling Qi. Nothing but a word of gratitude from your lips."

She scowled at him, but she couldn't sense any duplicity. As he said, his story would be easy to confirm, and if he lied about where they were hiding… Well she might not be able to hit him now, but she could certainly do it later. "...Thank you, Huang Da," the words left a bad taste in her mouth, but it was too small a thing to refuse.

He closed his blind eyes, seeming pleased with himself. "Ah, how wonderful," he mused. "I shall have you speaking my name breathlessly yet."

"Don't count on it, you're still a creep," she responded darkly.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You mean thank him again?
PrimalShadow said:
Remember that our goal in battle is asymmetric: we need to kill all or most of the wolves without anyone on our side dying. I think you would agree that losing any of our friends is not a fair trade for the Starlit Meadow, yes?

As a further note, I'm not sure how much of our group actually cares about the Meadow. Sun/Moon is moderately exotic, and Heaven is just one element out of the imperial 8; I wouldn't expect too many people have arts matching that. Even for someone with one matching art, fighting for the meadow might not be worth the risk; and what do we do about everyone else?


Frankly, I just don't buy that organizing this is worth the social capital it would burn, much less the risk to us and our friends if something goes wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, obviously it would be asking them and see if they want it. I strongly suspect at least Gu Xiulan has a Sun cultivation art, and probably more than her. Meihzen is a big unknown, and Su Ling/Li Suyin too.

However, the reason I'm proposing it is I think we should be able to do it without casualities given how much everyone has improved, especially if we have ZB+. It would have been perfect for Lake Rippling Art, but that's a nonstarter.
 
Last edited:
Bob's Beard said:
We should bring her delicious meats, and have a chowdown pow-wow.

Somewhat more seriously (not really), I increasingly find myself of the opinion it's both a good idea, and IC for Ling Qi to begrudgingly thank muster creeper Huang Da for the assist/heads up about Su Ling and Li Suyin. That was no small matter, and gross weirdo in Ling Qi's eyes or no, he... hasn't really been that bad. He hasn't ambushed us/our friends, hasnt been associated with shotty attacks, and is way more open and upfront about his creepy oddities than he COULD have been. That giving him mulish thanks doubles as a check-in on him is just icing on the cake.

How'd'ya feel about that as one of the other minors, mister Aussiepants?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Ling Qi is a thief and scoundrel at heart. She's growing into a boss, the one who looks out for her friends and allies and cares about her subordinates, but she would totally kneecap someone she hates and not care about the unfairness of it.
 
Vanguard_D said:
That will be a hard sell. There are a lot of voters that very vocally hate the fact that we are a support/exotic specialist and rather want us to forget it for punchsplosion and fireballs.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The problem wasn't being a support specialist.

The problem was people wanting to be a support specialist to the exclusion of all offensive options.

Spending twenty to thirty turns slowly scratching our way through armor and then through qi and health was not sustainable.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top