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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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Arkeus said:
This is basically what I understood by 'heavy polearm', but sadly the efforts by some people to have its definition changed three times over the new didn't help.
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Moribito looks awesome, have to check it out. With the polearm though it'll complicate things but I'm hoping for a choice later if we do end up getting one for melee. Spear's seem more fitting, plus it's kinda a projectile so bonus!

drake_azathoth said:
Um, ignoring her Arts, Ling Qi IS aggressively yang in character.
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Not sure I'd go that far. She's blunt and she has an explosive temper but I wouldn't say she's just aggressively yang. Besides that's not who she's trying to be.

tenchifew said:
I must admit to be baffled how a heavy polearm, clearly a strength weapon, our worst attribute, is winning the contest over all the other dextrerity based options offered.
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yrsillar's said we can use Dex for it (not that I want it to win)
 
One thing to consider is that it's, outside of sniping, very difficult to sneak attack people with a heavy polearm or a bow.

If they, say, turn around as you're approaching them, you can hide a knife in your sleeve, behind your back, etc. You cannot do this with a spear taller than you are, and trying to shove it back in a storage ring is probably a terrible idea.

If a good disguise needs us to take off the storage ring so we're not wearing magical bling, a throwing knife can still be concealed.

The power to punch people, as well, is also pretty easy to hide weaponwise.

Grabbing a second weapon is good, as unarmed and the knives fill a lot of the same uses for us, but moving away from progressing our best skills, when they're not anywhere near the point of maxing from passive gains, is just going to hurt us.

tenchifew said:
I must admit to be baffled how a heavy polearm, clearly a strength weapon, our worst attribute, is winning the contest over all the other dextrerity based options offered.
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It'll work with dex. So it's just a terrible match for the character's talents, rather than mathematically awful.

So, with that in mind, changing to
[X] Unarmed
[X] Chain Whip
Adhoc vote count started by Shadell on Jun 8, 2017 at 9:44 AM, finished with 406 posts and 110 votes.
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tenchifew said:
I must admit to be baffled how a heavy polearm, clearly a strength weapon, our worst attribute, is winning the contest over all the other dextrerity based options offered.
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Honestly probably because the only dexterity weapon proposed that we haven't already learned is chain whip and it came late. That and it's 'weird' enough it didn't get traction.

Also, well, to be honest a lot of voters absolutely don't want dexterity weapons.
 
Chain whip won't win and I prefer sword for the possible flying sword skills later. I also don't see a heavy polearm matching Ling Qi's aesthetic.

[X] Bow
[X] Sword
 
tenchifew said:
I must admit to be baffled how a heavy polearm, clearly a strength weapon, our worst attribute, is winning the contest over all the other dextrerity based options offered.
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I think WOG already said that heavy polearm would also use Dex a while back...

I am on phone so I won't go looking for the exact quote. But I am sure anyone could find it...
 
It's already late, but before it becomes much too late:

I think I owe everyone an apology about my behavior regarding arm meridians and I do mean EVERYONE - now that the burst damage art is in sight and the goal is in view and the mountain all but ascended I have a deep and abiding sense of buyer's remorse. I looked deep in my heart and instead of burst damage all I saw was our three dots in formations twinkling brightly and going: IMAGINE IF YOU COULD FREEZE PEOPLE LIKE THAT GUY WHO PUT JI RONG ON LOCKDOWN BWAHAHAHA.

I'd gotten so tired of the debate that I stopped arguing from the fun perspective of like 'maybe we'll have an art that lets us be more of a thief,' or 'I disagree we should be more of a soldier and we need arts that let us take out the commander' and more GAIZ STOP ARGUING ABOUT ARM MERIDIANS THIS IS DUMB but with an unfairly focused 'this side of the debate should win because then the argument will be ovaaaaah'.

That was... yeah, that definitely contributed to some bad mojo. I mean, it's an understandable reaction, people tend to radicalize when an issue becomes prominent and long-lasting, but it wasn't a helpful reaction, nor was it fair.

And I really like this thread so it sort of feels like I just woke up and realized I'd pissed all over my friend's kitchen after the party ended.

Other people have apologized to me before in this thread, so although it's belated and no doubt most people looking in don't have the slightest clue why I'm apologizing, let me do so anyway.

Apologies. I can't promise it won't happen again, but I can promise that I'll do my best to make sure it won't. I'm not going to go all BETRAYAL on the burst damage crowd, but I will try to be more thoughtful when making arguments in the future. Especially since I apparently got so incensed I promised I'd single-handedly write enough omakes to buy a meridian and an art worth of successes and that's a rather lot of omakes to write.

ALRIGHT THAT'S NO DOUBT REALLY AWKWARD, FEEL FREE TO FORGET THAT THAT HAPPENED PLEASE AND THANKS. O3O

(Also, if you're going wtf, you made like two posts that weren't obviously shitposts, stop giving yourself airs, no1curr, remember: I was born in Canada. I have a stereotype to uphold. :V )
 
A heavy Polearm is a terrible idea, Ling Qi relies on dodging and not getting hit to protect herself. A Guandao or similar would require us to remain stationary to swing it unlike a Jian which would let us move and strike at the same time for hit and run tactics.

A sword would also help us out in duels if we ever have to fight one. Polearms are for fighting off multiple attackers and we already have Arts to do that for us so we should attempt to fill in the holes in our build with a Sword so we can at least be better at fighting 1v1.
Raron said:
Uh, people do know that cestuses are a thing? I mean Ji Rong uses them as a weapon, and they fall into the Unarmed category.
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Yes and they're a peasant's weapon that will just get us sneered at more.

I like how we've become Ji Rong's opposite and actually made friends with noble so I want Ling Qi to use a Jian and show off just how much better she is than those stupid stuck up noble brats by taking the most respected and "noble" of the Four Great Weapons and mastering it to shove how awesome we are in their faces.

It'll be the ultimate FUCK YOU to them :D
 
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I don't understand why people are assuming we'll be permanently stuck with the weapons we chose now. This is just training, Ling Qi tests out the weapon and if we don't like it we don't pursue it. I want to try out the Heavy Polearm (which works with Dex btw), so I chose it. If we don't like how the weapon feels then we can always choose to train a different weapon.
 
But Polearms ARE a high mobility weapon? You don't stand your ground with one, you back away to maintain range as people try to close. Generally they also do very well 1 on 1 unless the enemy has a shield or chain whip. A guy with tonfas or a sword (or two) is boned.
 
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Codex said:
I don't understand why people are assuming we'll be permanently stuck with the weapons we chose now. This is just training, Ling Qi tests out the weapon and if we don't like it we don't pursue it. I want to try out the Heavy Polearm (which works with Dex btw), so I chose it. If we don't like how the weapon feels then we can always choose to train a different weapon.
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Because as far as we know this is a one-off chance to try new weapons out.
 
Equable said:
Remember that the tonfas we sold a while back had a dv of 10, and the sabers a dv of 7. Unarmed's dv is calculated as either strength or unarmed mastery, whichever is higher. We're currently at 2 in both, so that's our dv. Now, if we train really hard, we'll eventually get to 6 (where we'd be capped until we hit Green), at which point... we'd still have a lower dv than the sabers.

Now, you raised the idea of cestuses, and they could mitigate the disadvantages of unarmed, certainly, by allowing us to up our dv and use a weapon talisman. And even if we don't have it at any given time, we still have our normal unarmed, so being caught without a weapon is less of a disadvantage.

However, we don't know how effective they are. There's almost certainly tradeoffs to it, after all, such as having to choose between having good damage enhancement or good qi reduction, where with proper weapons we could have both. And, really, if we still have to buy and upgrade a weapon, we might as well have just gotten a weapon.
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The thing is, "using hands as sword/spears/sabers/etc" is a staple in the genre. Unarmed is not "the only one that can fight without a weapon". It's just the one that's dedicated toward mastery of the body. It's basically about aesthetic and themes there. Unarmed definitely has its own tradeoff, but they are more about range and about everything is based primarily on the self, like how a sword's limitations are about their own themes and so on.

So some weapons will have better DV, some will have better armor piecing ability, some will be quicker, some will give free damage, some will enhance poisons, some will have versatility, and so on and so forth... but there is no "yeah, unarmed has this thing most other weapon also have, so it must have harsher tradeoffs".
1986ctcel said:
Yes and they're a peasant's weapon that will just get us sneered at more.

I like how we've become Ji Rong's opposite and actually made friends with noble so I want Ling Qi to use a Jian and show off just how much better she is than those stupid stuck up noble brats by taking the most respected and "noble" of the Four Great Weapons and mastering it to shove how awesome we are in their faces.

It'll be the ultimate FUCK YOU to them :D
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Yeah, I mean, it's not like Gu Xiulan is also using a glove weapon, she'll totally sneer at us for copying her.
1986ctcel said:
Because as far as we know this is a one-off chance to try new weapons out.
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Basically any "train physical" action with Han Jian, if we want to, can have us trying a new weapon.
 
Arkeus said:
The thing is, "using hands as sword/spears/sabers/etc" is a staple in the genre. Unarmed is not "the only one that can fight without a weapon". It's just the one that's dedicated toward mastery of the body. It's basically about aesthetic and themes there. Unarmed definitely has its own tradeoff, but they are more about range and about everything is based primarily on the self, like how a sword's limitations are about their own themes and so on.

So some weapons will have better DV, some will have better armor piecing ability, some will be quicker, some will give free damage, some will enhance poisons, some will have versatility, and so on and so forth... but there is no "yeah, unarmed has this thing most other weapon also have, so it must have harsher tradeoffs".


Yeah, I mean, it's not like Gu Xiulan is also using a glove weapon, she'll totally sneer at us for copying her.

Basically any "train physical" action with Han Jian, if we want to, can have us trying a new weapon.
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Uh that glove is her talisman for spamming fire Arts, as far as I remember her weapon is just "shoot fireballs". I don't think she's even physically attacked someone in any fight she's been in that we were around to see.
 
1986ctcel said:
Uh that glove is her talisman for spamming fire Arts, as far as I remember her weapon is just "shoot fireballs". I don't think she's even physically attacked someone in any fight she's been in that we were around to see.
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Weapons are talismans. Her glove is her 'weapon talismans', she doesn't need to physically attack with it. If you see her fight with us, she 'punch' the air and we get heat wave, and she 'kicks' it, and so on. She's definitely unarmed, and her glove is her weapon. It's just that she uses a spiritual art.
 
1986ctcel said:
Because as far as we know this is a one-off chance to try new weapons out.
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I'm 100% sure this isn't a one-off chance. It doesn't make logical sense for Ling Qi to decide to train weaponry only once when she meets up with Han's group every week. We can attach it as a subvote to a Han group training action if we really want to.
 
1986ctcel said:
Uh that glove is her talisman for spamming fire Arts, as far as I remember her weapon is just "shoot fireballs". I don't think she's even physically attacked someone in any fight she's been in that we were around to see.
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Well, now that she's in Yellow, she has her families balrog whip art thing, if you count that.

Anyway, closing vote in an hour, so i can write the Han Jian scene.
 
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Arkeus said:
Weapons are talismans. Her glove is her 'weapon talismans', she doesn't need to physically attack with it. If you see her fight with us, she 'punch' the air and we get heat wave, and she 'kicks' it, and so on. She's definitely unarmed, and her glove is her weapon. It's just that she uses a spiritual art.
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Meh that's like saying a Wizard is a master of "thrown fireball style" when they cast fireballs.

edit: Ooooh a fire whip.
 
1986ctcel said:
Meh that's like saying a Wizard is a master of "thrown fireball style" when they cast fireballs.

edit: Ooooh a fire whip.
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I think Arkeus might be suggesting that the glove acts like the paired daos that the boy Zhu twin had, the ones that can cut things at range? Hence Gu Xiulan can punch fireballs at people.

Not sure, the reference to the spiritual art is tripping me up.
 
FixerUpper said:
I think Arkeus might be suggesting that the glove acts like the paired daos that the boy Zhu twin had, the ones that can cut things at range? Hence Gu Xiulan can punch fireballs at people.

Not sure, the reference to the spiritual art is tripping me up.
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I'm saying a weapon doesn't actually have to touch people to be considered a weapon: there are both spiritual and physical arts. FVM is spiritual, SCS is spiritual/Physical, ZB is physical. Gu Xiulan's art seems to be some kind of spiritual/physical that produce fire effect with her unarmed fighting. Maybe later she can create fire swords/spears/etc, but right now she just punch and kick fire balls or fire waves.

Well, apparently she can make fire whips too.
 
Arkeus said:
I'm saying a weapon doesn't actually have to touch people to be considered a weapon: there are both spiritual and physical arts. FVM is spiritual, SCS is spiritual/Physical, ZB is physical. Gu Xiulan's art seems to be some kind of spiritual/physical that produce fire effect with her unarmed fighting. Maybe later she can create fire swords/spears/etc, but right now she just punch and kick fire balls or fire waves.

Well, apparently she can make fire whips too.
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That's still not unarmed that's just being a caster type.
 
The way I see it, the benefit of Unarmed in the practical sense is that we can combine it with pretty much anything and everything else, regardless of what we're doing or what other weapon we're using. Using kicks or knee strikes while playing the flute for FVM or shooting a bow, suddenly adding one-handed punches, jabs or grabs when fighting with a sword or polearm, all sorts of fun stuff that'd give us a great deal of flexibility and make us harder to predict in a fight.
 
Hello. We are not choosing two weapon masteries that will be the things we use for the rest of our lives. We are asking Han Jian to try out some new weapons to see if we like them. This opens up new masteries in case we do like them as a 'freebie.' It seems to be vastly missing the point if we decide that the new 'weapon' we wanted to try is something we've already been trained in and continue to train in every week with Suyin and Su Ling.
 
To everyone voting for Unarmed and something other than bow:

You realize you're basically cancelling out your non-unarmed vote, right?
 
pheonix89 said:
To everyone voting for Unarmed and something other than bow:

You realize you're basically cancelling out your non-unarmed vote, right?
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The point is where we know Bow is winning, and we like both unarmed or the other one but really really dislike sword or polearmed, so it's an insurance against the vote we dislike.
 
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