Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
DeAnno
Sometimes words have two meanings
To clarify, the quality of our actual Domain Weapon is very high for Green, but that quality is seen in its unique abilities:
The Domain rank is something that comes from our statistics instead, and is essentially one of the personal stats we use to operate our Domain Weapon. We would have the same Domain rank even if we switched Domain Weapons, the individual Domain Weapon is just different because of its uniques.
The Domain rank is something that comes from our statistics instead, and is essentially one of the personal stats we use to operate our Domain Weapon. We would have the same Domain rank even if we switched Domain Weapons, the individual Domain Weapon is just different because of its uniques.
So, going through these, here are the dependencies by attribute / stat / #mastery#:
(P) Stamina
Health
P.Armor
(P) Strength
Speed
P.Penetration
(P) Dexterity
Speed
Initiative
P.Hit
P.Avoid
(M) Intelligence
S.Penetration*
(M) Wits
Initiative
Combat Perception
S.Hit*
(M) Resolve
S.Avoid*
S.Armor*
(S) Presence
S.Penetration*
(S) Manipulation
Social Perception
S.Hit*
(S) Composure
S.Avoid*
S.Armor*
Qi
Health
Perceptiveness
Combat Perception
Empathy
Social Perception
#Mastery#
P.Hit
S.Hit
P.Penetration
S.Penetration
P.Avoid
S.Avoid
P.Armor
S.Armor
I'll leave you all to come to your own conclusions - but just looking at this, it does not appear like all stats were created equal...
You're missing Dispel (presence/manip) and Resist (resolve/composure).
Also Intelligence is probably relevant to things like Formations. You know. Nerd stuff that we're too cool for
More importantly, the QM has specified that he won't actually be following the system when writing out battles except as a rough guideline:
I only listed the derived stats that were actually listed in the tutorial, I'm afraid.You're missing Dispel (presence/manip) and Resist (resolve/composure).
Also Intelligence is probably relevant to things like Formations. You know. Nerd stuff that we're too cool for
It's easy enough to accomplish that with the new system. All we have to do is regularly get into serious fights (so they don't get fluffed as sparring) with all of our friends! I can see no problem with this plan whatsoever.
DeAnno
Sometimes words have two meanings
It might slightly help the Dex problem to accept the D&D Physical Attack Split. In the same way some Spiritual Attacks are Manip to hit, and some are Wits to hit, maybe some Physical Attacks are Strength to Hit, and some are Dex to Hit? In this you would probably split it like:
Strength:
P. Hit (Melee & thrown attacks with medium and heavy weapons)
Dexterity:
P. Hit (Melee & thrown attacks with light weapons, all attacks with bows and fired weapons)
This at least encourages big bruisers to favor Strength somewhat more over Dex, though it doesn't solve the problem of Dex having a ton of useful passive stats for those who don't use Strength weapons.
Another thing you might do is allow Initiative to be based on the best 2 (or just the best 1) of Dex/Wits/Composure, though that's a bit weird compared to the rest of the system.
Another thing you could maybe do is merge (Wits+Intelligence) and (Presence+Manipulation) into single stats, since those stats are rather weak right now.
Strength:
P. Hit (Melee & thrown attacks with medium and heavy weapons)
Dexterity:
P. Hit (Melee & thrown attacks with light weapons, all attacks with bows and fired weapons)
This at least encourages big bruisers to favor Strength somewhat more over Dex, though it doesn't solve the problem of Dex having a ton of useful passive stats for those who don't use Strength weapons.
Another thing you might do is allow Initiative to be based on the best 2 (or just the best 1) of Dex/Wits/Composure, though that's a bit weird compared to the rest of the system.
Another thing you could maybe do is merge (Wits+Intelligence) and (Presence+Manipulation) into single stats, since those stats are rather weak right now.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
@yrsillar, this is weird. From what I can tell, a offensive domain weapon works like this:
- [Stat 1 + Skill 1]/2 * Domain modifier * Meridianx5 for offence
- [Derived Avoid and Armor of the user]*Domain modifier*Meridianx2.5 for defence
I am not sure if it's on purpose, given it seems fairly likely for me for there to be (Gear + Passives) > 2.5x meridians.
Black Noise
Curious
- Location
- About 1AU from Sol
@yrsillar, two things:
1) How will the system handle unconventional mobility?
Flight (LQ, Cai, Liling), Tunneling (Meizhen, Shen Hu), Teleportation (LQ with OWS and Cui in the right environment) all seem like they ought to provide significant advantages over those that lack the means or some counter to them. This problem seems like it'll get only worse as we advance and more of our peers get esoteric mobility of their own.
2) We used to have a cap of 8 for Dex due to breakthrough bonuses, is that somehow translated into the new system?
1) How will the system handle unconventional mobility?
Flight (LQ, Cai, Liling), Tunneling (Meizhen, Shen Hu), Teleportation (LQ with OWS and Cui in the right environment) all seem like they ought to provide significant advantages over those that lack the means or some counter to them. This problem seems like it'll get only worse as we advance and more of our peers get esoteric mobility of their own.
2) We used to have a cap of 8 for Dex due to breakthrough bonuses, is that somehow translated into the new system?
DeAnno
Sometimes words have two meanings
I would imagine the intent is that the only thing to be exchanged between Offensive and Defensive domain weapons is the 5/2.5x meridian multiplier, with all Domain weapons using (stat1 + skill1)/2 for offense and Derived stats for defense.
A separate issue is that using Derived stat for defense is going to make Domain weapons very defensive as a whole if gear and passives add up a lot.
While I agree it's a weird complication, it actually isn't as big a problem right now as you might think.
Let's imagine we have Dex/Music B. This is ranked down to D + 50 meridians = B Hit
Now imagine we have Resolve/Resilience B + 30 passives/equip = B30 S.Armor. This is ranked down to D15 + 25 meridians = D40 = C20 Armor
That being said, once we get to higher domain levels and the rank-downs are reduced then yeah, it will become a bit of a problem.
At domain 2 this would change to B20 hit and B19 Armor. At domain 3 it would be A10 hit and A15 Armor.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
Mmmh, good point about the rank down being afterwards. So, say we had a defensive domain weapon.
Hit = S, ranked down to B Hit. +25 meridians, still B Hit.... as long as there isn't at least 15 left after the rank down. So, a defensive domain weapon would have a better hit than a offensive one, but not that much.
Still a bit weird, and once we get Domain 2 it would be much weirder.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Not a problem. We have good dex.
wait, when we were going over this, you were the one telling me domain weapons were too squishy, that's the whole reason I gave them the half meridians bonus on defense in the first place.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Looking at it I would think that that comes in to play in the same place as the environmental portions, i.e Yrsillar is the only one who sees it? Just based on phrasing in the system as it is.
@yrsillar so here's some commentary on the system:
As mentioned and noted, Dex's reign is odd, so I won't rehash that beyond mentioning that it might be feasible to take Dex out of initiative and make it Wits + Perceptivness for determining the rough level of initiative or roll together Combat Perception and Initiative. Something to think on in your own time.
I do have concerns about Action Speed and Durations however. When you are writing the flow of a fight I don't see how these pieces of information are relevant unless we are using the turn structure from the old system. Outside of a turn system the time it takes for an action is almost literally the length of the sentence used to describe it and how long it takes. What I'm concerned about is that having actual categorization of Action Speed where it is readily readable will encourage thinking used in the old turn style, which I thought we were moving away from.
Like, in a comparative narrative, fights are not made with turns. They are written as shifting tides of advantage and descriptions of who acts first in any given moment to seize that advantage. So, I don't see the point of these two pieces of information existing as a tracked "stat" except as an over complication. Reading the system description, it is like you were describing the comparative system you've been talking about and then slipped into the old system reskinned for this specific part.
E: Another way to put it is like this; If you are not tracking the fights turn by turn beyond the barest minimum as stated here
then why are you using language that directly implies the existence of action economy and turns in a position of prominence?
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- Location
- United States of America
So, looking at PLR and thinking about how it would play out in this system, and it seems like it might have gotten the boost it so desperately needed to be really competitive. Without knowing what Attributes and skills are needed to have PLR hit, it seems like PLR should have a better time hitting then when we were using the old system. Also, if it keeps the stuff that it had (qi drain, can't use some techniques, and grapple) then it could be a debuff that reduces a person by at least 1/3 of a rank in hit and avoid, and more likely 2/5 or 1/2. Combine that with what FVM could do, and we have some really potent debuffs in our tool kit.
I'm excited to see how the ramifications of these changes on arts that should have been powerful but because of challenges in balancing with the old system they were underperforming.
I'm excited to see how the ramifications of these changes on arts that should have been powerful but because of challenges in balancing with the old system they were underperforming.
That was the old system! They were made of glass back then!
The simplest system would be to use the same calculation for everything, and then just give a rank down to defensive stats for offensive weapons and the reverse for defensive weapons. That makes balancing way simpler.
Uhhhhh, FYI. We don't actually have good Dance yet. PLR is just as inaccurate as it always was.
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- Location
- United States of America
But Dance is a derived subskill for Ling Qi, which means, unless I'm misunderstanding it, that when we use dance it will impact an opponent's ability to defend unless they also have derived skill.
So I guess my question would be, what does this mean?
Like, does "competes" involve using it in a conflict with the derived attributes, is it for clashes, or is it something else?
Unless @yrsillar is nicer than I expect with xp, it's going to need ~16 actions to get to B. Without tutoring we'll have problems.
DeAnno
Sometimes words have two meanings
If SCS/SCS+ started training Dance too that would speed it up. Also, there's always the omake squad...
SCS already has its hands full training dodge and stealth.
Erk. I don't like this. This is going to cause problems. Like, Dance is clashing with Dodge. There's no good reason to consider Dance a derived subskill that should have a special advantage there. Well, not unless you also intend to consider "Dodge" a derived subskill of "Defense" and "Swords" a derived subskill of "Melee". Otherwise it's just creating these bizarre asymmetries where some skills are getting super special subskills because of design oversights in the original skill list.
If you want to run a system like this you need to have all the comparable skills starting from the same point. Otherwise you just end up with some skills getting subskills really easily because they were really broad and have obvious focuses, while other ones were already fairly specific and thus can't find subskills easily.
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