Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
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- Original Fantasy
Sirrocco
Pedantic
It looked like it was saying "The MoI only grabs 6s and 7s. The sects will sometimes recruit 5s." (presumably via their own arts) Admittedly, there's some uncertainty there.
Interestingly, it suggests that Ling Qi's cultivation is basically *average* for "no background to speak of" The only real advantage she walked in with above her type-peers was the "your life is now managed by SV" and the associated survival instincts, genre savvy, and fiendish obsession with cultivation.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Another advantage, though it took a while to actually apply, was her street rat thief skills. See the Renshu arc and such.
E: not sure it exactly counts with what you are meaning, but I figured it bared mentioning.
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Seriously, almost every one of our advantages flow from this.
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Sure, but it says nothing about "luck across top tier Qi development pills, 2 ducal grade combat arts and a cultovation art that actually contributes in Yellow"
That, and the successes we compounded from that, is what brought us to here.
It's all the Moon*, and nobody could have predicted that.
*and forum driven time management
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
To say "Ling Qi is Average for her social bracket" isn't exactly correct either. Because Talent 6+ is when major organizations are willing to risk taking a loss by developing you. Because Talent 6 basically equates to "Could theoretically achieve Prism based on nothing more than their natural, inborn Talent."
But yes, while Talent is important, especially early on, what makes Ling Qi (And presumably any PC we'd have had) a baby Monster is the fact that her work ethic is effectively perfect. She actually likes Cultivating, it's not a chore for her, so she does it whenever she has a few spare minutes. That's admittedly a symptom of video gamey stuff, but where most people might manage to get themselves to cultivate for two or three actions a week and spend the rest either working or handling things they enjoy doing it, Ling Qi regularly spends five or more actions a week cultivating. She works insanely hard for someone of her station.
And that's why Ling Qi is basically an out-of-nowhere ridiculous monster compared to "Normal" scholarship kids. They don't often know just how tenuous their position is, and they don't greedily suck down every scrap of resource they can acquire, they don't spend almost every waking hour studying or Cultivating. They do other things, like have fun, or explore their new powers.
And she was good enough at making friends and contacts that she's managed to avoid any decisive defeats over the course of the year too.
That's why Ling Qi is as overpowering as she is, and it's why the Monsters are ridiculous. All three of them are driven as fuck, and can effectively count on having 'Enough' resources to have an optimal cultivation plan. Talent alone is only one aspect of being a peak expert. Wealth and Work Ethic are the other two, and you can still become great even if one of these is a bit anemic as long as you double down on the others. Having all three is what makes someone into a legend--and we've just solved the problem with Ling Qi's lack of wealth. (Just as someone with a shitload of money and determination can solve a Talent problem if they put their mind to it and are willing to take risks, we saw Xiulan do it after all)
Fan Yu, for instance, could have been a contender if he had excellent work ethic--and more importantly ,could sustain it. He might not have been able to pass in this fucking year, but he might have managed to put up a better fight.
Ordinary Cultivators--the ones who peak in Green have one of these. Great Cultivators have two, Prisms and Whites though? You need all three.
I'll even explain how this works.
If you have Talent, but no money and limited determination, you'll find yourself peaking in Green because the costs of your continued Cultivation have grown to the point where you literally don't dare try to break through, because you can't possibly afford to cultivate in Cyan and above without working incredibly hard.
If you have Money, but limited talent and determination... Well, Fan Yu and Huang Da. They'll eventually stumble over to Third Realm at some point, because Cultivating up to there is cheap, but they're going to be expected to bring in some achievements if they want more, so they'll end up getting some low paying courtier position and coasting on that.
If you have determination, but no money or Talent... You can claw your way up, inch by bloody inch by working yourself to the bone to pay for your Cultivation, and you might very well achieve Third Realm if you're lucky--but at that point, you pretty much stall out, because you don't have any ways of making further breakthroughs before you die of old age.
But yes, while Talent is important, especially early on, what makes Ling Qi (And presumably any PC we'd have had) a baby Monster is the fact that her work ethic is effectively perfect. She actually likes Cultivating, it's not a chore for her, so she does it whenever she has a few spare minutes. That's admittedly a symptom of video gamey stuff, but where most people might manage to get themselves to cultivate for two or three actions a week and spend the rest either working or handling things they enjoy doing it, Ling Qi regularly spends five or more actions a week cultivating. She works insanely hard for someone of her station.
And that's why Ling Qi is basically an out-of-nowhere ridiculous monster compared to "Normal" scholarship kids. They don't often know just how tenuous their position is, and they don't greedily suck down every scrap of resource they can acquire, they don't spend almost every waking hour studying or Cultivating. They do other things, like have fun, or explore their new powers.
And she was good enough at making friends and contacts that she's managed to avoid any decisive defeats over the course of the year too.
That's why Ling Qi is as overpowering as she is, and it's why the Monsters are ridiculous. All three of them are driven as fuck, and can effectively count on having 'Enough' resources to have an optimal cultivation plan. Talent alone is only one aspect of being a peak expert. Wealth and Work Ethic are the other two, and you can still become great even if one of these is a bit anemic as long as you double down on the others. Having all three is what makes someone into a legend--and we've just solved the problem with Ling Qi's lack of wealth. (Just as someone with a shitload of money and determination can solve a Talent problem if they put their mind to it and are willing to take risks, we saw Xiulan do it after all)
Fan Yu, for instance, could have been a contender if he had excellent work ethic--and more importantly ,could sustain it. He might not have been able to pass in this fucking year, but he might have managed to put up a better fight.
Ordinary Cultivators--the ones who peak in Green have one of these. Great Cultivators have two, Prisms and Whites though? You need all three.
I'll even explain how this works.
If you have Talent, but no money and limited determination, you'll find yourself peaking in Green because the costs of your continued Cultivation have grown to the point where you literally don't dare try to break through, because you can't possibly afford to cultivate in Cyan and above without working incredibly hard.
If you have Money, but limited talent and determination... Well, Fan Yu and Huang Da. They'll eventually stumble over to Third Realm at some point, because Cultivating up to there is cheap, but they're going to be expected to bring in some achievements if they want more, so they'll end up getting some low paying courtier position and coasting on that.
If you have determination, but no money or Talent... You can claw your way up, inch by bloody inch by working yourself to the bone to pay for your Cultivation, and you might very well achieve Third Realm if you're lucky--but at that point, you pretty much stall out, because you don't have any ways of making further breakthroughs before you die of old age.
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There are a lot of commoners though, or close enough, that don't amount to anything. There are poorer or mortal families who have scraped together enough to pay the Sect fee and enter, and it's no skin off of the Sect's nose to accept them if they can pay. It just means they might not ever make it to the Inner Sect.
It's the scholarship students that are high talent. But it's not like the scholarship students run around advertising that. Only Ji Rong was clearly talented due to his known background, and his issue was more that people didn't like him for various reasons.
For ex., both Suyin and the Ma twins would be non-scholarship commoners so they probably didn't go through the MOI tests.
I think iirc, Meizhen's interlude specifically says that she thought Ling Qi was one of those that had been found by the MOI. And I think if some other people had thought about it, they'd have realized it too. Because Ling Qi didn't know enough to recognize Bai Meizhen as a ducal member so there's a suggestion that she's an orphan or someone who at least doesn't have access to a family who would have taught her re ducal families.
NaanContributor
Provider of delicious flatbread, and nothing else.
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Yep, found it.
Although it's less because of Ling Qi's lack of knowledge or behavior, but the fact that she came into the Sect completely unawakened that let her know she was scouted as a high Talent. Meizhen thinks that the other "nobles" who dismissed us for being a commoner were stupid because of that.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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I've been pondering the very very broad strategic brushstrokes of the empire and I came up with this list.
Imperial Seat: The Celestial Dragon, strongest Ancestor.
Heavenly Peaks: Mu strong, active Prism(?) Empress, active Ancestor, vassals strong.
Thousand Lakes: Bai weakened politically, slumbering Ancestor, powerful ancient talismans, no White, nearing breakthrough Prism Heir Suzhen, recovering from vassal loss.
Western Territories: Sun strong but unstable, powerful but untrustworthy Native Spirit, unknown talismans, active White, vassals unknown.
Emerald Sea: Cai new, no Ancestor, several unspecified powerful Object Spirits, active White Duchess Shenhua, vassals strong.
Ebon Rivers: Zheng strong, active Ancestor, unknown talismans, unknown if they have White, one count clan known to be declining others unknown.
Golden Fields: Guo strong, devastated environment beginning to recover, active Ancestor, unknown if they have White, vassal tensions.
Alabaster Coast: Jin unknown, no Ancestor, unknown talismans, unknown if they have White, vassals unknown.
Savage Seas: Xuan strong, active Ancestor, unknown talismans, unknown if they have White, vassals unknown.
Can someone with more knowledge let me know if there's something wrong with this please?
Imperial Seat: The Celestial Dragon, strongest Ancestor.
Heavenly Peaks: Mu strong, active Prism(?) Empress, active Ancestor, vassals strong.
Thousand Lakes: Bai weakened politically, slumbering Ancestor, powerful ancient talismans, no White, nearing breakthrough Prism Heir Suzhen, recovering from vassal loss.
Western Territories: Sun strong but unstable, powerful but untrustworthy Native Spirit, unknown talismans, active White, vassals unknown.
Emerald Sea: Cai new, no Ancestor, several unspecified powerful Object Spirits, active White Duchess Shenhua, vassals strong.
Ebon Rivers: Zheng strong, active Ancestor, unknown talismans, unknown if they have White, one count clan known to be declining others unknown.
Golden Fields: Guo strong, devastated environment beginning to recover, active Ancestor, unknown if they have White, vassal tensions.
Alabaster Coast: Jin unknown, no Ancestor, unknown talismans, unknown if they have White, vassals unknown.
Savage Seas: Xuan strong, active Ancestor, unknown talismans, unknown if they have White, vassals unknown.
Can someone with more knowledge let me know if there's something wrong with this please?
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- Florida
There was that one girl with the staff on the cusp of gaining a spirit that we stole and sold two or three times.
I'm assuming all the Duchies aside from Thousand Lakes have Whites, the Bai's having got tilted when their vassals split and got offed early before they had a prism locked and loaded to ascend. Not having a cultivator of appropriate level your clan is at for long tends to be A Problem for nobles.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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And its a safe assumption too! I just ain't feelin like risking it, mostly cause I just don't wanna.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
I think for a complete picture, we'd need to include the lines of alliance and antipathy between them.
Cai Shenhua's game plan seems to be "get CRX to the point where she can carry the clan herself, then become a Great Spirit, sot that you *are* the Ancestor." I'm curious how Snake Ancestor stacks up against the sorts of spirits that Whites turn into when they cultivate to the next level. We know that the old Emperr turned into a Death Spirit, for example. How important is that?
Strength of bloodline/cultivation hacks/art library also seems pertinent, though I don't know how well we'd judge that. MIght just boil down to depth - how many midrange cultivators can you deploy, and how easily can you produce more? Not a thing we know, in many cases.
From this perspective it suddenly becomes clear that Oppression Mom's modifications of CRX are basically trying to brute-force in a whole bunch of bloodline traits too. She's basically trying to go from barely anything to "ancient clan with all the fixings" level in one generation, and has a decent shot at it. One of the reasons she gets along so well with the Bai is that she's basically looking at the Bai and going "I want to *be* you. Well, okay - more control, better governance, and less infighting, but other than that...." She's fixing the "not enough ancient talismans", the "no good bloodline traits" and the "no powerful ancestor spirit" issues all at once, all by herself. That woman does not lack for ambition. I'm not sure what she's going to do about the "family size too small" thing. She seems too much of a quality over quantity type to breed them *all* herself, but I could see her custom-building a daughter for the purpose.
Also, I realize another new subtlety about the sickness of the burn that her showing up pregnant was. The Sun family had *lots* of kids. They had lots of grandkids. Sun Liling is their only hope because the rest of them have no chance. There is a weakness in the bloodline, and they have to breed like mad in order to get one or two excellent cultivators by the numbers game. CRX was Cai Shenhua's *first*. By showing up pregnant, she's basically saying "In case you didn't notice, I can just *make* heirs of that caliber. It wasn't a random chance. I don't leave things like that to chance. I have exactly as many heir-tier descendants as I choose to." This might or might not be *entirely* truthful on her part, but it's plausible, and it's definitely implied. She wasn't just dissing Sun Shao on the fact that he was locked into being overinvested in a potentially weak heir. She was also literally dissing him on a failure of virility, and the weakness of the bloodline he had spawned. I'm *sure* it's a personal sore point with him, too. The fact that she was literally displaying her own fecundity to do it just adds a bit of extra zest... as does the fact that she didn't have to say a word about it. She just showed up for a short while in a revealing dress.
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From this post:
Relevant: "The Xuan do have a White. In fact, all the other Old Families (Zheng, Xuan and Mu) except for the Bai have a White."
Welllllll... it is what brought us here now. If we hadn't gotten any of those windfall, perhaps at this time we'd have a weaker combat suite and a lower cultivation, and we could fail to get into the inner sect, but even then we would just take the next year to get stronger in the outer sect, and end up far ahead of where we are now by the time the next tourney comes around. And while a year is certainly a lot now (given that we've only just started cultivating), in the grand scheme of things it is very little.
Good point. Though as a counterpoint, I'll note that it probably isn't that hard to find who is on a scholarship (if nothing else, you could just ask, and if you are one of the folks in a position to be recruiting talent it is doubtful that people will lie to you).
DeAnno
Sometimes words have two meanings
I'm happy we didn't have to dance with this sort of dangerous logic. First of all, the problem with missing windfalls (you can probably deduce this in our history to some extent) is that you don't just miss that windfall, but the loss of that windfall makes you weaker and you miss the next windfall too. For example, if we don't get onto Han Jian's team for the test, maybe we miss out on Moon loot. Missing those arts makes us weaker, and maybe we don't do as well in Thunderdome, and maybe get looted instead of looting someone else. And this can cascade into missing a lot of other quest rewards, locations, and even the Cai offer.
Secondly, the second year of Outer is always slower, since the first years get all the cool locations and quests. It's very possible that it could take that whole extra slow year to make up for all the windfalls you lost and the derivatives they didn't provide even. And then when the tourney rolls around, the elders are going to give you shitty matches and generally favor the first years getting in; just look what happened to Wen Ai and Chu Song!
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- United Kingdom
I disagree on those two you mentioned. Wen Ai's match was the fairest match-up we've seen so far in the tourney, and Chu Song was in the position of being someone with no real backing in a year full of outliers.
I'd imagine in normal times, second and maybe even third years are given a decent chance of getting in on their own merit.
To be fair, Wen had the most uncertain match up of the entire tournament. Really, her loss was a bare thing. And I'm not sure Chu was supposed to be a feeder. Theoretically, it looked like a pretty fair match on paper. It just... wasn't.
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A Chu Song interlude would be fun to read. She had to have entered the match expecting a fair but winnable fight. And then she got what amounted to a prolonged and humiliating execution, from a retainer of the Cai. The angst spirit will be remarkable.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
There's an interesting thought here. It's apparently possible for even low-ranking cultivators to create persistent spirits unintentionally over the span of mere days with enough Qi saturation and sufficiently strong emotions (and maybe some suffering). Is anyone leveraging that? That seems like the sort of ability that could be refined and exploited - making an alliance with a spirit forged out of your own hate, for example.
That seems like one of those alternative methods of cultivation that would get the various ministries giving you some VERY hard looks. At best you would probably end up "recruited" for fighting the barbarians. Otherwise you would just vanish.
Like everything, if someone with insufficient connections does it, it's probably a crime, while if an old and prestigious family does it then it's just a private tradition that's no one's business as long as it happens behind closed doors.
For example, I'd imagine that Cai Shenhua likely designer children project would be unacceptable for most people to do. Whatever her cheat method probably would be as well, but she wasn't caught in time.
In some ways, being White is a positional good, and every other White, particularly Whites from outside the direct Ducal families, that exists diminishes the power of the existing ones, so they have an incentive to block such ascension methods.
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First Draft, looking for Critique.
This is intended to tie into a set of poems covering each of the Imperial Eight as a propaganda set. Each poem will end up extolling the virtues of one or more elements.
This will be contrasted by a poem or two that insults every last element of the Eight.
Whenever I get around to all of that. One step at a time.
Eight Elements Lullaby
Hush, child, don't you cry now,
for Earth holds you in its embrace,
You are never alone.
Hush, child, don't you fear now,
for Mountain has your back,
You will never falter.
Oh, child, don't you wander, now,
for Water will guide you,
You will never be lost.
Oh, child, don't you hide, now,
for Wind will pick you up,
You will never be bored.
Child my child, don't run now,
for Lake is here,
You will never be upset.
Child my child, don't hesitate now,
for Thunder is here,
You will never stay still.
Ah, child, don't freeze now,
for Fire is here,
You will never be cold.
Ah, child, don't cower now,
for Heaven is here,
You will never be dull.
Hush, child, don't you cry now,
for Earth holds you in its embrace,
You are never alone.
Hush, child, don't you fear now,
for Mountain has your back,
You will never falter.
Oh, child, don't you wander, now,
for Water will guide you,
You will never be lost.
Oh, child, don't you hide, now,
for Wind will pick you up,
You will never be bored.
Child my child, don't run now,
for Lake is here,
You will never be upset.
Child my child, don't hesitate now,
for Thunder is here,
You will never stay still.
Ah, child, don't freeze now,
for Fire is here,
You will never be cold.
Ah, child, don't cower now,
for Heaven is here,
You will never be dull.
This is intended to tie into a set of poems covering each of the Imperial Eight as a propaganda set. Each poem will end up extolling the virtues of one or more elements.
This will be contrasted by a poem or two that insults every last element of the Eight.
Whenever I get around to all of that. One step at a time.
- Location
- United States of America
Far be it for me to say that I am good at poems or the like, but I can see a couple possible problems beginning in the first stanza.
This appears to be 6, then 8, then 5 syllables for each of the lines. But the next stanza
appears to be a 6, then a 6, then 6 again.
It seems that there is no pattern or consistency between the stanzas regarding the number of syllables. Which would probably be fine if this was a freestyle poem, but your goal is to have this as a propaganda piece. For a propaganda piece, however, there is nothing about the structure that makes it easy to remember or flow particularly well which would make it more memorable.
So my first piece of advice, which should probably be taken with a grain of salt, is to look at the stanzas and see if you want to create a pattern in the number of syllables per line, or if it will be too much work. I think that it can be improved with a simple pattern, but that is just me.
As for the contents of the poem, in general I like it. I think that the lake stanza could be "cry" rather than "run" in the first line, as it would seem to convey lake's theme better. But then again, you use cry in the first stanza talking about earth. Possibly a synonym of cry? "Wail" or "keen?"
Overall I like it, I think you have captured a lot of the elemental themes alright without delving into the complexities of them. I would encourage you to keep up the good work!
@Raising Kittens
If you want to keep the 6/6/6 syllable arrangement, you could use "for Earth has you in hand" , "for Lake is by your side" , "for Thunder surges ahead". Can't think of more that'd fit, i didn't memorize what the elements represented in terms of character traits.
If you want to keep the 6/6/6 syllable arrangement, you could use "for Earth has you in hand" , "for Lake is by your side" , "for Thunder surges ahead". Can't think of more that'd fit, i didn't memorize what the elements represented in terms of character traits.