The whole reason anyone suspected Ling Qi had special ancestry in the first place wasnt her talent.
it was the ??? trait.
I can't remember if we ever resolved that, but I can't seem to find it either. Was it removed?. Or am I just missing something in my state of sleep deprivation.
I can't remember if we ever resolved that, but I can't seem to find it either. Was it removed?. Or am I just missing something in my state of sleep deprivation.
New Moon is the choice for treasure hunting-Indiana Jones, spying on criminal conspiracies and "oh, shiny!" loot-seeking, as well as learning secret cultivation knowledge.
Yeah, it seems to me that if Ling Qi did have some special snowflake ancestry, the Sect and later Cai would certainly know about it given the importance of bloodlines etc. It would be understandable if the Sect kept the information from her, but Cai should already have said something to Ling Qi if there was something weird in her file.
I'm going on a leg and assume the ancenstry is part of the "street rat" package we voted for Ling Qi at the start of the quest, meat to give us a leg up compared with the other choices:
You have nothing. Child of a prostitute and an unknown father, you have always lived by your wits and by stealing from others. Yet you were still discovered by an Agent as a budding talent, and now everything has changed.
Advantages: High innate talent, 'practical' skills, decent physical and mental abilities, Possible hidden ability?
Disadvantages: No resources. Very low social ability. Compulsory Military Service. Somewhat cliche
As proof of our social ability, I shall remind people that when looking for a housemate, we eyed the girls of this year and immediately picked out two with a blood feud to ask to live together.
I sort of had the impression that the quantum hidden ability became her proficiency with music, with that leading into her having access to this powerful suite of support Arts that gives her a distinct and valuable combat role, in a class where all too many students are just sliding into vaguely interchangible offensive tank builds (ie attempt to absorb damage efficiently and collect aggro by dealing damage).
I sort of had the impression that the quantum hidden ability became her proficiency with music, with that leading into her having access to this powerful suite of support Arts that gives her a distinct and valuable combat role, in a class where all too many students are just sliding into vaguely interchangible offensive tank builds (ie attempt to absorb damage efficiently and collect aggro by dealing damage).
Not exactly, that was from another character creation choice our Support Talent. It's why we got the art which turned into Fleeting Zephyr as our first art.
As proof of our social ability, I shall remind people that when looking for a housemate, we eyed the girls of this year and immediately picked out two with a blood feud to ask to live together.
Pretty sure that was answered by our Beloved QM, with Sun agreeing just to troll Best Snek and the whole thing spiralling into one bloody mess with us in the middle failing horribly.
Pretty sure that was answered by our Beloved QM, with Sun agreeing just to troll Best Snek and the whole thing spiralling into one bloody mess with us in the middle failing horribly.
Ling Qi is just a romantic at heart and all the stories have two scions of rival families falling in love. SO JUST KISS ALREADY AND FALL IN LOVE DAMMIT NO STOP STABBING EACH OTHER THIS ISN'T HOW THE STORIES GO YOU PHILLISTINES
Ling Qi is just a romantic at heart and all the stories have two scions of rival families falling in love. SO JUST KISS ALREADY AND FALL IN LOVE DAMMIT NO STOP STABBING EACH OTHER THIS ISN'T HOW THE STORIES GO YOU PHILLISTINES
A girl sits in the ruins of the Argent Peak Sect, covered in blood and lit by smouldering flames, the only sound the occasional distant, far off scream. She wears a blank look, her expression remaining empty even as she opens her mouth:
Ling Qi is just a romantic at heart and all the stories have two scions of rival families falling in love. SO JUST KISS ALREADY AND FALL IN LOVE DAMMIT NO STOP STABBING EACH OTHER THIS ISN'T HOW THE STORIES GO YOU PHILLISTINES
A girl sits in the ruins of the Argent Peak Sect, covered in blood and lit by smouldering flames, the only sound the occasional distant, far off scream. She wears a blank look, her expression remaining empty even as she opens her mouth:
Ling Qi Xuan Shi is just a romantic at heart and all the stories have two scions of rival families falling in love. SO JUST KISS ALREADY AND FALL IN LOVE DAMMIT NO STOP STABBING EACH OTHER THIS ISN'T HOW THE STORIES GO YOU PHILLISTINES
On what it takes for AE to not suck
OK, this is bringing up stuff from a bit back that was a bit contentious - so let's put some real numbers onto what AE needs.
TLDR: AE has bad numbers (even with reasonable AE3 upgrade assumptions) which makes it really hard to use without already heavily debuffing an opponent, in which case its probably better to just kill them in the first place (or use a debuffing attack that also does damage). However, there still is a niche use for AE since it combos really well with Pressure Crack allowing us to get a free +4 dice on the next turn on an super tanky opponent that we can't get good odds on with other debuff techs. I expect AE4 to be good though (though no idea how it will compare with the other green techs we'll be getting since the assumed late yellow version is poor compared to our other late yellow techs)
First off, assume a 35 pdef / 30 sdef green 1 opponent, and that we are able to dedicate our action and instant to offensive actions rather than defensive. In terms of clashes, the last combat log has debuffs being applied on ties, so we'll be running with that unless otherwise noted.
Our first move in combat is invariably going to be FVM MoTV+Dispason+Dissonance
Turn 1
Target has 35 pdef / 30 sdef
ACTION: MoTV+Dispason
30+1 +5 first move, 81% vs 30 sdef for -4 all
INSTANT: Dissonance
31+1 +5 first move(?), 73% vs 35-4 (dispason) pdef for -2 all
Followed up with FSS's attacks (Hoarfrost is really good guys)
Turn 2
29 pdef / 24 sdef
ACTION: Hoarfrost Caress
36+1, 92% vs 24 sdef for -4 all & 4.31 dmg this turn and again on turn 3
note debuff only on damage unlike others
INSTANT: Springs End Aria
100% -3 sdef
OTHER: Dissonance (recurrance)
31+1, 92% vs 29-4-3 (HC, multiattacker) pdef for -2 all
So this brings us to turn 3 and assuming all the debuffs hit (note that this happens <50% of the time against this opponent!) we face a 23 / 15 defense, which is within range of what we can expect AE to actually manage to do anything against. So Plan Worm
ACTION: summon worms (x2)
19-6 +4 (PC), 5% vs 23 pdef, 0.90 dmg (if attack success)
19-6 +4 (PC), 9% vs 23-3 (ma) pdef, 1.01 dmg (if attack success)
Combined 15% of -4 pdef, ~1 dmg (complicated if first one manages to grapple)
INSTANT: Pressure Crack
next turn +4 from worm attack
OTHER: Dissonance (recurrence)
31+1, 99% vs 23-3-3 (2xMA) pdef for -2 all
Naturally, that's pretty goddamn shit - however, the saving grace here is that Pressure Crack has pretty amazing synergy with AE, letting us get a +4 dice on the next turn assuming the worms survive and get attacks off. However, we can get similar effects using most of our other techs and do actual damage: Option Facepunch
Going facepunch does good damage and gets a -3 debuff
ACTION: SS
33+1 +3 IF, 92% vs 23 pdef for -3 pdef, 7.17 damage (if attack success)
INSTANT: Inescapable Flow (or Pressure Crack for similar activation bonus, but no other effect)
+1 damage value
OTHER: Dissonance (recurrence)
31+1, 95% vs 23-3 pdef for -2 all
will exclude for brevity in later sets
Option FZ Debuffs
Switching to the bow does less damage (though more AP damage) for -4 opponent or +5 bonus
AtW Bow
ACTION: Against the Wind
27 +3 PC, 89% vs 23 pdef for -4 pdef (and other debuffs), average 3.79 damage (if attack success)
INSTANT: Pressure Crack EW Bow
ACTION: Encircling Winds
33 +3 PC, 94% vs 23 pdef, average 5.18 damage (if attack success)
+5 buff on next turn
INSTANT: Pressure Crack
Option Just Shoot Them Already
Or just doing damage works pretty well when they're already this debuffed - tons of damage
MS Bow
ACTION: Meteoric Strike
4x 24 +3 PC vs 23 pdef, average 14.10 damage (including misses)
+5 buff on next turn
INSTANT: Pressure Crack FSS Bow
ACTION: Falling Star Shot
35 +3 PC vs 23 pdef, average 9.50 damage (including misses)
+5 buff on next turn
INSTANT: Pressure Crack
So that is sort of unfair, since our other techs are late yellow and AE is not there yet. So let's make some assumptions on what AE3 gives these guys - 2 more dice and a bump to mid-yellow (so -4 autos) AE3 Worm
ACTION: assume worm base increase from AE3 (x2)
21-4 +4 (PC), 21% vs 23 pdef, 1.41
21-4 +4 (PC), 32% vs 23-3 (ma) pdef, 1.61
46% of -4 pdef, ~1.5 dmg (complicated if first grapples)
INSTANT: Pressure Crack
next turn +4 from worm attack
Notably much better, basically a 50/50 on an extra -4 pdef (still no damage though) from a successful grapple (also better hope grapple on ties stays true). So usable at this point (probably a surprise to some) ... but I think any of our other options would be still be better given the already debuffed state we assumed the opponent into and even then, I think it's a better trade to take the damage over more debuffs at that level of suck - e.g. take 5 to 7 damage in place of an extra 5 to 3 dice. And also don't forgot that just shooting them with Meteoric Strike at this point deals average of 14 damage already.
And given the poor numbers already, AE is absolutely not worth considering if we didn't already stack an -12 physical defensive dice on them... on the other hand, actually I can conceive of a spot to use this in - a 100% +4 dice on the next turn in combo with Pressure Crack is actually really good if for some reason our opponent is tanky enough to have bad odds of landing our debuffing attacks. Though I have no idea who the hell will manage to be packing 35+ spiritual dice to compete against Hoarfrost Caress.
So that is sort of unfair, since our other techs are late yellow and AE is not there yet. So let's make some assumptions on what AE3 gives these guys - 2 more dice and a bump to mid-yellow (so -4 autos) AE3 Worm
ACTION: assume worm base increase from AE3 (x2)
21-4 +4 (PC), 21% vs 23 pdef, 1.41
21-4 +4 (PC), 32% vs 23-3 (ma) pdef, 1.61
46% of -4 pdef, ~1.5 dmg (complicated if first grapples)
INSTANT: Pressure Crack
next turn +4 from worm attack
Notably much better, basically a 50/50 on an extra -4 pdef (still no damage though) from a successful grapple (also better hope grapple on ties stays true). So usable at this point (probably a surprise to some) ... but I think any of our other options would be still be better given the already debuffed state we assumed the opponent into and even then, I think it's a better trade to take the damage over more debuffs at that level of suck - e.g. take 5 to 7 damage in place of an extra 5 to 3 dice. And also don't forgot that just shooting them with Meteoric Strike at this point deals average of 14 damage already.
And given the poor numbers already, AE is absolutely not worth considering if we didn't already stack an absurd -12 physical defensive dice on them... on the other hand, actually I can conceive of a spot to use this in - a 100% +4 dice on the next turn in combo with Pressure Crack is actually really good if for some reason our opponent is tanky enough to have bad odds of landing our debuffing attacks. Though I have no idea who the hell will manage to be packing 35+ spiritual dice to compete against Hoarfrost Caress.
What I'd say AE need for worm is all of significantly better dicepool, capacity to summon more worms in a single cast for less Qi, and having them resilient enough to be able to survive at least one turn.
The first you mention, and it's true that them having a better dicepool help a lot in them being useful immediately as we summon them, but the way you do your comparison makes it obvious that such a comparison won't ever compare to direct damage. There is no point to summoning something if its role is basically the same as a fireball rather than survive and be useful for multiple turns.
The worms, in the summoning scale, seems firmly set in the 'mook' type, and we can already summon 2 of those at once. However there is no Qi reduction for the second one, and it's still limited to 2. If we could summon up to 2/3 worms and each additonal worm cost a reducible 4Qi (so 1Qi), then it would by itself truly make those mook summon worthy of being mook summons.
On what it takes for AE to not suck
OK, this is bringing up stuff from a bit back that was a bit contentious - so let's put some real numbers onto what AE needs.
TLDR: AE has bad numbers (even with reasonable AE3 upgrade assumptions) which makes it really hard to use without already heavily debuffing an opponent, in which case its probably better to just kill them in the first place (or use a debuffing attack that also does damage). However, there still is a niche use for AE since it combos really well with Pressure Crack allowing us to get a free +4 dice on the next turn on an super tanky opponent that we can't get good odds on with other debuff techs. I expect AE4 to be good though (though no idea how it will compare with the other green techs we'll be getting)
First off, assume a 35 pdef / 30 sdef green 1 opponent, and that we are able to dedicate our action and instant to offensive actions rather than defensive. In terms of clashes, the last combat log has debuffs being applied on ties, so we'll be running with that unless otherwise noted.
Our first move in combat is invariably going to be FVM MoTV+Dispason+Dissonance
Turn 1
Target has 35 pdef / 30 sdef
ACTION: MoTV+Dispason
30+1 +5 first move, 81% vs 30 sdef for -4 all
INSTANT: Dissonance
31+1 +5 first move(?), 73% vs 35-4 (dispason) pdef for -2 all
Followed up with FSS's attacks (Hoarfrost is really good guys)
Turn 2
29 pdef / 24 sdef
ACTION: Hoarfrost Caress
36+1, 92% vs 24 sdef for -4 all & 4.31 dmg this turn and again on turn 3
note debuff only on damage unlike others
INSTANT: Springs End Aria
100% -3 sdef
OTHER: Dissonance (recurrance)
31+1, 92% vs 29-4-3 (HC, multiattacker) pdef for -2 all
So this brings us to turn 3 and assuming all the debuffs hit (note that this happens <50% of the time against this opponent!) we face a 23 / 15 defense, which is within range of what we can expect AE to actually manage to do anything against. So Plan Worm
ACTION: summon worms (x2)
19-6 +4 (PC), 5% vs 23 pdef, 0.90 dmg (if attack success)
19-6 +4 (PC), 9% vs 23-3 (ma) pdef, 1.01 dmg (if attack success)
Combined 15% of -4 pdef, ~1 dmg (complicated if first one manages to grapple)
INSTANT: Pressure Crack
next turn +4 from worm attack
OTHER: Dissonance (recurrence)
31+1, 99% vs 23-3-3 (2xMA) pdef for -2 all
Naturally, that's pretty goddamn shit - however, the saving grace here is that Pressure Crack has pretty amazing synergy with AE, letting us get a +4 dice on the next turn assuming the worms survive and get attacks off. However, we can get similar effects using most of our other techs and do actual damage:
Option Facepunch
Going facepunch does good damage and gets a -3 debuff
ACTION: SS
33+1 +3 IF, 92% vs 23 pdef for -3 pdef, 7.17 damage (if attack success)
INSTANT: Inescapable Flow (or Pressure Crack for similar activation bonus, but no other effect)
+1 damage value
OTHER: Dissonance (recurrence)
31+1, 95% vs 23-3 pdef for -2 all
will exclude for brevity in later sets
Option FZ Debuffs
Switching to the bow does less damage (though more AP damage) for -4 opponent or +5 bonus
AtW Bow
ACTION: Against the Wind
27 +3 PC, 89% vs 23 pdef for -4 pdef (and other debuffs), average 3.79 damage (if attack success)
INSTANT: Pressure Crack EW Bow
ACTION: Encircling Winds
33 +3 PC, 94% vs 23 pdef, average 5.18 damage (if attack success)
+5 buff on next turn
INSTANT: Pressure Crack
Option Just Shoot Them Already
Or just doing damage works pretty well when they're already this debuffed - tons of damage
MS Bow
ACTION: Meteoric Strike
4x 24 +3 PC vs 23 pdef, average 14.10 damage (including misses)
+5 buff on next turn
INSTANT: Pressure Crack FSS Bow
ACTION: Falling Star Shot
35 +3 PC vs 23 pdef, average 9.50 damage (including misses)
+5 buff on next turn
INSTANT: Pressure Crack
So that is sort of unfair, since our other techs are late yellow and AE is not there yet. So let's make some assumptions on what AE3 gives these guys - 2 more dice and a bump to mid-yellow (so -4 autos) AE3 Worm
ACTION: assume worm base increase from AE3 (x2)
21-4 +4 (PC), 21% vs 23 pdef, 1.41
21-4 +4 (PC), 32% vs 23-3 (ma) pdef, 1.61
46% of -4 pdef, ~1.5 dmg (complicated if first grapples)
INSTANT: Pressure Crack
next turn +4 from worm attack
Notably much better, basically a 50/50 on an extra -4 pdef (still no damage though) from a successful grapple (also better hope grapple on ties stays true). So usable at this point (probably a surprise to some) ... but I think any of our other options would be still be better given the already debuffed state we assumed the opponent into and even then, I think it's a better trade to take the damage over more debuffs at that level of suck - e.g. take 5 to 7 damage in place of an extra 5 to 3 dice. And also don't forgot that just shooting them with Meteoric Strike at this point deals average of 14 damage already.
And given the poor numbers already, AE is absolutely not worth considering if we didn't already stack an absurd -12 physical defensive dice on them... on the other hand, actually I can conceive of a spot to use this in - a 100% +4 dice on the next turn in combo with Pressure Crack is actually really good if for some reason our opponent is tanky enough to have bad odds of landing our debuffing attacks. Though I have no idea who the hell will manage to be packing 35+ spiritual dice to compete against Hoarfrost Caress.
I have... concerns with using them against Green opponents in such a comparison. We all know they won't work on them a very large portion of the time, that's been gone over enough times that I think we all agree that it is just better overall, except in the narrow potential exception you outline for a 35+ sp tanker(and that may still not be the case depending on other details of their build), to do something other than AE worms. This is fine in my opinion by the way.
I do think however a better comparison would be AE2 and 3 like you did here against a late yellow with around 25 pdef and 20 sp def, unless someone has better numbers if you want to use that as a means of judging AE where it stands and in how we think it may stack up. I do definitely like the pressure crack idea, that's an interesting possibility.
As for people who could have 35+ spiritual defense? Meizhen and Renxiang. Meizhen almost definitely since defense and absolutely vicious counters is her shtick.
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