- Location
- Internet, The
Wow, that changes things quite a lot. Is that something Qi Ling knows in character?
Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
Wow, that changes things quite a lot. Is that something Qi Ling knows in character?
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
We need 2 more lungs to equip FSS, 1 more lung for AE3, 1 more lung for PLR.
Motile Mollusc
Bitten by a radioactive were-tilde
- Location
- Here
Cai Shenhua is, in no particular order:
The mother of Cai Renxiang, the girl who's asked us to serve her.
The Duchess of the Emerald Sea province (there are 8 provinces in the Empire), which is both where Ling Qi is from and where the Sect is located.
The youngest White level cultivator in the Empire - she reached White at 50, which is really, really impressive.
An excellent item crafter/inventor - most notable of her creations are the White Rooms, the renting of which has been a source of great wealth for her, and artificial item spirits, one of which is used by the Empress.
A second generation cultivator - her father started the family and was of no particular note. This is important because it means she achieved the above points essentially on her own, without millennia of wealth and art refinement to back her up.
Possibly a totalitarian despot - she crushed the old noble families of the Emerald Sea province after she took charge and replaced them with new cultivator families. The later may be to our advantage if we go that route, or may not.
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong/have missed anything.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
Ducal houses have as much information as they have been able to gather. The ducal house of Cai has been around for 3 Generations. That is not a lot of time to build up a library. I would be amazed if their library was even decent. There is also the question if they would even let us use it. We may never see the Cai library while with the sect we know there are routes to use them.
- Location
- United States of America
I mean, possibly is a pretty weak word for the likelihood of her being a totalitarian despot.
I would use probably, most likely, or absolutely a totalitarian despot. It is her way or the highway, and the highway is to the underworld as she utterly crushes you and your family
I'm quite certain that is basic knowledge that would have been explained to her as soon as she joined the sect.
And if not then, as soon as people started making her suggestions or offers about future plans.
This is a very civilized Xianxia setting, no rogue cultivators throwing their weight around. Feudalism is strict, you are somebody's vassal and some people might be your vassals, all the way up to the Emperor. The only exceptions within the empire limits are eccentric hermits who remain locked up in their caves in closed cultivation for some centuries until they ascend or die.
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- Location
- United Kingdom
Admittedly my reasoning for it is because I think it'd be cool for her to get at least one round in the WR, especially considering she's unlikely to get another chance to go in. Wouldn't be torn up about it if she didn't, though I can't speak for anyone else.
Cai gives the biggest boost to our power, yrsillar said he balanced that with the added difficulty of making friends with her. We can argue about the working conditions, but the pay for "right hand of a ducal heir" can't be beat.
Shenhua also has everything that the houses she wiped out or supplanted used to have, including the former ducal house, and everything that a lesser house or sect can be pressured or bribed into yielding up.
Though, given that we've picked up an archive art all of once, I'm not as sold on access to the sect archives as a benefit as I once was. I recall yrsillar said we can still purchase arts from the archive anyway if we don't join, we just pay extra.
The difference is, with Cai we own the army, because the troops in our territory answer to us. We call the shots. In the sect, we say "Yes, Sir."
Actually one of the things the sect advisor told us was being Green fast tracks us to officer.
And keep in mind that under Cai troops ultimately answer to the dutchess, and in the immediate sense answer to Renxiang.
And keep in mind that under Cai troops ultimately answer to the dutchess, and in the immediate sense answer to Renxiang.
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- Location
- The Temple of the Winds
Those are essentially the same, limited freedom.
You are right, CRX will be giving Ling Qi (mandatory) jobs.
On the other hand she will be paying us to do them. Either as a salary or at the end of every mission (as she done so far).
Boss of our boss is just that, Shenhua is not going to be our boss in any way beyond how every soldier in the duchy must obey her.
True.
I'm not sure how that enters the Tally, just true i guess...
Any path being in different location will prevent (easy) visits to friends beyond those on the same path. For exemple, assuming Meizhen beat Liling, gets the favor and uses it to link up with CRX, if Ling Qi engages in Sect Aprenticeship we won't be seeing her again, potentially ever.
Already argued, untrue, or at least identical to every paths.
every path will have a 8(?) year military service where we won't be staying with the current spirit-friends, and honestly i can't see the Sect as being the only path with spirits we can befriend.
Not going to happen. You are either a vassal, an exile or pretty soon dead.
Untrue. The Sect will most likely offer the most time to train, but physical ressources are a major factor to power, as seen with ... every rare pill we found so far. Heck, White Room effectively gives +30 meridians at Green, those is a pretty huge difference in effective power.
Same as above, not going to happen, if we leave the Sect it's only to join some other power.
True for every path, it's one of the prices for having High Talent (6)
same as above, true for every path. if we befriend Gu Tai but don't go on the path to marry him we'll have a hard time keeping in contact too...
I don't buy that argument. Cultivation is one of the pillards of society, no major house can afford to be barely decent, let alone a DUCAL HOUSE.
It's like saying that <random top 8 country IRL> doesn't have access to advanced knowledge on vital information domains, like programming, or nuclear power or space. Russia might not be the world's leading country in, idk... biochemistry? but it still has world level scientists on the subject.
As for access to said cultivation knowledge... assuming we join, Ling Qi is going to be CRX first minion. Effectively Forth Rank in the ducal house (1st Shenhua, 2nd CRX, 3rd Shenhua's right hand, 4th CRX's right hand). If Ling Qi doesn't have access, noone does, and for a House that is desperate for powerful vassals that's ... just not going to happen.
CRX Path is the path with the easiest access to top level cultivation ressources, because a powerfull Ling Qi it is ... well, maybe not vital, but highly important.
Comparatively, the Sect doesn't care if Ling Qi gets powerful, unless she proves herself to be a phenomenal genius; the Sect has other seeds to nurture for identical, if not better results, like Gu Yanmei or Ji Rong.
Even if the Sect and CRX Ducal House were on the same level of power, and had the same ressources avaliable to invest in Ling Qi (which they definitively do not), Ling Qi would still recieve significantly less help in cultivation.
As i said previously, the choice between CRX and Sect boils down to whether we want stuff like rare pills that save actions but have to pay for them in jobs for CRX aka "time", or if we rather cultivate without help instead.
Ah!
Good point, i hadn't made that mental link :lol
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- Location
- The United States
- Pronouns
- He/They
You mean CRX's failed sister prototype who was recently injured in an attempt to kill Sun Shao: Renxiang's real father?
- Location
- scrabbling
wot
Pretty sure Yrsillar means 'the other person who has something comparable to Liming' aka Shenhua's lover
not to mention, I doubt that anyone in Renxiang's part of the power structure could command anyone in Shenhua's. a green's subordinate green is unlikely to command, for example, the Core Sect apprentice of Shenhua's who made LQ's dress, who's at least 4th realm
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
I think the confusion here is associating libraries and stored knowledge with cultivation. The Cai family has proven their strength by having the clan head be white. That doesn't mean they have a good library. Libraries don't just pop up. It takes a massive amount of time to build a good library. Having worked in a library I know that in order to make your library better much of it is just waiting for a collector to die and donate their books to you or to buy those books up when they go to the free market. The value of a library is not the sheer amount of books they have, though that is part of it, it is the amount of rare books the library has. Each ducal house will have books and knowledge that no one else has. The sect however will simply have more of those books because they have been around longer. Building a great library is not about strength it is about time.
The Cai family has simply existed for too short of a time to build something like that up. Even if you argue that they could have ripped the books from the hands of their enemies that still is not enough time or books. Plus fighting tends to destroy fragile books. Robbing a intact library is near impossible because of the fragility of those books.
Saying that the Cai family will give us equal access to knowledge and books then the sect is wrong.
If not her right then certainly her left. Ling Qi and Gan are the only options currently, and I don't expect we will fuck things up so badly that she dumps us or that we will far horribly far behind on cultivation.
Yeah, I definitely object to the "fourth in power" assertion. Power down flow down nearly so smoothly.
Lets forget the fact that GG is likely to be closer to CRX than we are, and assume for the moment that we are CRX's right hand. Does that make us nearly equal to her in power? Not at all. CRX's power comes from her authority as province heir, the protection that she has under her mother's aegis, and her ability to request that Shenhua take action on her behalf. Only a shadow of these authorities actually get passed down to us.
To wield CRX's authority as heir, we would need her trust and permission, and even with those granted it would be understood that we would only wield said tools on her behalf, which is a significant limitation on the power.
Wielding CRX's immunity is basically impossible for us. There are people who would fear acting against CRX because they fear reprisal from Shenhua, but won't fear acting against us.
Finally, wielding CRX's influence on her mother is possible to the extent that we can influence CRX, which is going to be significantly less than "completely and utterly".
In other words, our power is going to be a fraction of CRX's even if we are her right hand person, leaving more than enough room for individuals to slip in between our ranks.
~~~
We should similarly expect a sizable gap between the power of CRX and Shenhua. Shenhua is the most powerful person in the province; what she wants, she gets. I wouldn't be surprised if CRX didn't make the top ten.
Lets forget the fact that GG is likely to be closer to CRX than we are, and assume for the moment that we are CRX's right hand. Does that make us nearly equal to her in power? Not at all. CRX's power comes from her authority as province heir, the protection that she has under her mother's aegis, and her ability to request that Shenhua take action on her behalf. Only a shadow of these authorities actually get passed down to us.
To wield CRX's authority as heir, we would need her trust and permission, and even with those granted it would be understood that we would only wield said tools on her behalf, which is a significant limitation on the power.
Wielding CRX's immunity is basically impossible for us. There are people who would fear acting against CRX because they fear reprisal from Shenhua, but won't fear acting against us.
Finally, wielding CRX's influence on her mother is possible to the extent that we can influence CRX, which is going to be significantly less than "completely and utterly".
In other words, our power is going to be a fraction of CRX's even if we are her right hand person, leaving more than enough room for individuals to slip in between our ranks.
~~~
We should similarly expect a sizable gap between the power of CRX and Shenhua. Shenhua is the most powerful person in the province; what she wants, she gets. I wouldn't be surprised if CRX didn't make the top ten.
Shenhua broke a bunch of long-standing noble-houses in her province, and I expect her to have picked up their treasures.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Not sure it counts as scamming someone when they set the terms... Also, the fact that they're friends; Ling Qi provided the materials; and that she likely wouldn't have even thought of it without LQ, makes it understandable she offers such favourabe conditions. She wanted to find her own sword art rather than simply use LQ's charity so it's not unlikely that offering more, after she decided on fair terms for her training on the art, wouldn't be taken well.
Not to say we can't do it, but I struggle to see how we're scamming her if we don't offer more.
I thought yrs just said she offers the most material wealth, not power or personal power?
I've seen this said a few times but do we even know that Shenhua's seeing anyone?
- Location
- North Carolina
That doesn't mean we get them.
Or even guarantee we can use them.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
She didn't offer the terms. She asked for 200RSS but was uncomfortable asking, and Ling Qi went 'oops, that's a bit much' and put it down to 100RSS + some help with AC. This is basically us abusing Su Ling not being able to push for herself.
Shenhua is unlikely to have a truly great library of arts for several reasons. Firstly, even if she conducts regular purges the spoils in terms of arts will probably be surprisingly little. People are really, really attached to family cultivation arts, and the culture here is almost certain to encourage spite, especially since Shenhua seemingly went the full 'fear' route. If Shenhua does regular purges I've little doubt that a lot of the family art jade slips got destroyed on a 'if I can't have it the person who's destroying everything my house was sure won't be'.
Secondly, we know jade slips can be locked by various methods (such as Xiulan's 'burn this underwater' art) and high tier arts are likely locked in various specific and complex way. Whilst it might be possible to unlock the looted ones Cai is unlikely to have done so herself.
Third is time and interest. Cai ascended by 50 and has spent a lot of her time since establishing her rule. She's unlikely (given her personality and strength) to have invested too much of her time in collecting and catalouging random arts outside her family ones. She absolutly has amazing family arts and personal arts, none of which she is likely to allow us to learn or that would be suitable for Ling Qi's development even if the Cai were willing.
What arts she has gained via are unlikey to be fully realised systems with all their distinct levels or to have the sheer variety a sect has, especially since she has almost certainly been. The sect has had millenia of cultivators of all stripes, affinities and domains contributing to their libraries. No 50 year old house, ducal or not, will hold a candle to them.
Whilst we've rarely picked up archive arts I'd point out that literally every art we have has been gained from sect affiliated persons, (Moon arts are slightly arguable but Xin has been the face of that interaction and if she wasn't here I'm not sure we'd have been in a position to aquire them).
Some people also seem to be vastly overstimating how powerful CRX and ourselves will be anytime in the next few decades or century. Whilst CRX is the heir of the province that does not actually make her the second most powerful person in the duchy except on paper. Shenhua has her own subordinates that she's cultivated over many years, who will have their own influence with Duchess Cai and might well be able to tell Renxiang to go piss up a rope if she tries to order them around without a good reason. They'll also be first in line for the really good rewards from Shenhua.
Moreover CRX is explicitly being tested (and trained in ruling) by her mother, and will continue to be so. Letting CRX play with unlimited authority and ability to order around anyone in the province is not particularly helpful for that goal, so the power CRX can wield on Shenhua's behalf is likely to be limited. It does CRX's growth no good if she can merely snap her fingers and have anything happen and runs the risk of diluting her future reputation (and that of the Cai overall). Upstart brat hiding behind her mother's skirts is a phrase that might easily come off wagging tounges (it doesn't need to be true to be damaging.
Secondly, we know jade slips can be locked by various methods (such as Xiulan's 'burn this underwater' art) and high tier arts are likely locked in various specific and complex way. Whilst it might be possible to unlock the looted ones Cai is unlikely to have done so herself.
Third is time and interest. Cai ascended by 50 and has spent a lot of her time since establishing her rule. She's unlikely (given her personality and strength) to have invested too much of her time in collecting and catalouging random arts outside her family ones. She absolutly has amazing family arts and personal arts, none of which she is likely to allow us to learn or that would be suitable for Ling Qi's development even if the Cai were willing.
What arts she has gained via are unlikey to be fully realised systems with all their distinct levels or to have the sheer variety a sect has, especially since she has almost certainly been. The sect has had millenia of cultivators of all stripes, affinities and domains contributing to their libraries. No 50 year old house, ducal or not, will hold a candle to them.
Whilst we've rarely picked up archive arts I'd point out that literally every art we have has been gained from sect affiliated persons, (Moon arts are slightly arguable but Xin has been the face of that interaction and if she wasn't here I'm not sure we'd have been in a position to aquire them).
Some people also seem to be vastly overstimating how powerful CRX and ourselves will be anytime in the next few decades or century. Whilst CRX is the heir of the province that does not actually make her the second most powerful person in the duchy except on paper. Shenhua has her own subordinates that she's cultivated over many years, who will have their own influence with Duchess Cai and might well be able to tell Renxiang to go piss up a rope if she tries to order them around without a good reason. They'll also be first in line for the really good rewards from Shenhua.
Moreover CRX is explicitly being tested (and trained in ruling) by her mother, and will continue to be so. Letting CRX play with unlimited authority and ability to order around anyone in the province is not particularly helpful for that goal, so the power CRX can wield on Shenhua's behalf is likely to be limited. It does CRX's growth no good if she can merely snap her fingers and have anything happen and runs the risk of diluting her future reputation (and that of the Cai overall). Upstart brat hiding behind her mother's skirts is a phrase that might easily come off wagging tounges (it doesn't need to be true to be damaging.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Just found it and it was worse than I thought. Apparently we halved her price and had already taught her Argent Current. We offered something at cost that we probably would've given for free. Feel a little skeevy now. Suppose that's why you don't do business with friends...