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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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TotallyNotEvil said:
The argument goes:
1) Half the thread was totally right in saying Meizhen knew her business and was justified in her actions
-> 2) But we didn't know it was this serious
--> 3) But Meizhen clearly thought it was so, and we knew that.
---> 4) But then we would think he dead.
----> 5) Maybe, but we could very well not fall for his ploy, or force him to reveal it to salvage resources, or a number of things. This does nothing to detract from 1), which is, we should have accepted that Meizhen knew better.
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You're simplifying the arguments for 'restraint' with #1, however. The big arguments against involved the consequences of being ruthless to either Qi and Meizhen's relationship (Qi becoming upset at an "accidental death") or to Meizhen and the sect's relationship (an arranged "fuck you" from a 'deceased' Yan Renshu). To be honest, even if Meizhen had revealed that info earlier, I would've still voted for restraint, since in the end I thought a lack of restraint was the riskier course of action to take. Ling Qi trying to rise above her past and so forth was a nice fluff bonus reason to vote for it, but the underlying practicalities were why I voted that way.

You do yourself no favors to pretend that the sole reason for restraint was "Ling Qi didn't think it was serious".
 
Alectai said:
Honestly, the mistake here was not being paranoid enough. Renshu had fed Meizhen exactly what was needed to bait her into his mailbox.

If we did it her way, we'd find the other locations as smoking wrecks by way of asset denial. Did we make the best choice possible? No. But if you consider anything but perfect success a complete failure, then good fucking luck winning anything.
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Hell, this kind of choice (the order) in quests? Almost forces not making the "best possible choice" - it's why they kind of irritate me*. With the level of information available, it's really little better than random chance. Yet because of the way it's set up, people try and dredge up rationales for why their particular guess is the 'true' one.

Let's boil this one down to "where is Yan Renshu?" - and we assume that he's under one of the three cups.
- "Storage" - it's hidden and is less likely of a target for vengeful cultivators.
- "Facility" - his puppets are there, so he can direct and support them in a close-range fight.
- "Residence" - it's isolated and comfortable.

Which is true? Only the QM knows, and they're not telling. If a decision like this has hints, they'll be ambiguous, easy to interpret in multiple directions. Vindication only occurs in hindsight, at which point it's relatively easy to point to the rationales for that choice as 'obviously' justified. See the ongoing argument :p

In fact, it gets 'worse' in this case. You have an outcome that doesn't even reveal if he was even under any of the cups to begin with - the pair know he's not under two of them, but don't know if he was under the third. He could've instead have taken the time from turning over one cup to leave the second (or third) for the dealer's pocket, or might've been there from the start. You still get the arguments that the cups should've been turned over in a different order, but they have to be even more strident to cover the continued uncertainty.


* I draw a parallel to old "choose your own adventure" books, where the outcome of a choice is more or less arbitrary.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
That she has failed tactically doesn't mean she was wrong strategically.

She failed to see her course of action through, but at the same time, revealed information that vindicated her initial strategic goal.

Can't she have more than one reason for doing something? Or achieve her goals through multiple angles?

Making an example out of YR is at the same time vengeance and protection and a lesson. All of which we clearly need.

How is she wrong, then?
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Why does it mean that information vindicated her initial strategic goal? Her initial strategic goal was 'establish your reputation against a random enemy'. This new information says nothing about her strategic goal.
 
Honestly, if the white room give bonus to breaktrough attempt, I am going to vote for her.

I dislike her option and her as a person but the gains are greater than my feelings.
 
Belial666 said:
Why would it take that long?
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We have no idea how many successes it takes to reach the next level. So it could take 5 or 6 weeks. Even with spending solid actions (an Elder's training session) and mission successes into it, it took 3 weeks for the previous level, so I'm not hoping for anything less than that.
 
I think one of our priorities with Meizhen should be working on communication. This was some pretty important info, that we kind of didn't know. The White room is pretty annoying because we started breakthrough the week before we can use it.

I am seeing a rather funny version of this post in a negaverse when the players are told that Ling Qi was not told about the murder attempt on her baby. And that that info would have changed some interactions.
 
Just to point out, "bottlenecks" does not have to be about breakthroughs. Back during our first three months in the sect both Meizhen and Elder Su asked Ling Qi if she had reached a bottleneck at different points and this was long before we even hit late red.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
I'm not going to say we pointed out Meizhen knew what she was doing.

Because we already did that. Repeatedly.

Who could have guessed one of the best educated people we know actually knows what they are about, eh?
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As much as I'm completely on board with punishing him, and think we need to start trusting our friends more, this isn't helping. Us being assholes about this will just stir up resentment without convincing people.

We've learned something important, so lets just take it on board and proceed soberly.
 
Vanguard_D said:
Just to point out, "bottlenecks" does not have to be about breakthroughs. Back during our first three months in the sect both Meizhen and Elder Su asked Ling Qi if she had reached a bottleneck at different points and this was long before we even hit late red.
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I imagine a lot of cultivators have a hard time opening meridians, especially compared to Ling Qi.
 
Belial666 said:
Hey guys/gals, anyone got Ling Qi's initial stats saved, or something? How she started, attribute/skill wise?
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Not saved, you have to infer it from progresses. It was something like, though:
plausible initial stats said:
Strength o
Dexterity ooo
Stamina oo

Intelligence oo
Wits oo
Resolve oo

Presence: o
Manipulation: oo
Composure oo

Academics o
Craft: o
-Specialties: Cooking, Textiles
Athletics oo
Occult -
Politics -
Empathy oo
Persuasion oo
Streetwise oo
Subterfuge oo
Larceny ooo- speciality
Stealth oo
Survival o
Expression oo
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CircleTheSkies said:
Heh... so, amusingly, it might've been better to hold off one more week on the big breakthrough attempt - if it boosted the chances well enough, that'd have made (with the drugs) Ling Qi doing a 6-action double breakthrough actually quite possible :p
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You know what's even more amusing ?
If we had spend a minor on CRX every week since the vassalhood offer, or arguably tried to befriend the ducal heir of our region sooner, we might have known about what she planed to ask her mom when CRX "won".

TotallyNotEvil said:
We could also have finished him and looted his everything by hitting the Puppet Factory first.
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No.
The puppet factory was too big for YR to have evacueded it in the handful of minutes (half an hour tops depending how far they were) between the start of the attack and when we reached it.
Even before the mission started the residence was already trapped, so hitting YR himself was never in the cards, and the factory evacuated. Only the storage location had any loot.
Technically, hitting the storage first was the best decision since he might have tried to have his worms destroy/evacuate it if we didn't hit it first. And could have ended the mission with literally nothing to show for it.
At least this way we got some (crappy?) shinnies out of it, and a few Sect points.

Overall, and from a OOC PoV, it feels like a coop out from Yrsillar. Whatever the vote ended as, death, torture or worse were never going to happen anyway. Heck, from the very start destroying his fortune was never possible.
Karnax626 said:
Fu Xiang and Xuan Shi are decidedly more neutral. Neither of them actually say what they think of Ji Rong being released, though the wording Xiang uses makes me think he's making a subtle jab at Huang Da: considering the difference in cultivation level between him and Rong it's unlikely a duel would end in the formers favor.
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I agree. I read it as tongue-in-cheek for "if you have a problem with him deal with it yourself, don't try to use us/the faction for your dirty work"
 
I will say that I am glad that the conversation with Meizhen occurred as early in the week that it did. It was a wonderful scene and it allows us to know more about Meizhen and allows Meizhen to know more about us and our limitations.

That scene stole the show for me. Even though Cai was well written and handled the meeting very well, the conversation with Meizhen was simply the best part of the update. Now we can go into the breakthrough with this conversation behind us, and with resolve to walk this harder path that we have decided to pursue.
 
Ayashi said:
I agree. I read it as tongue-in-cheek for "if you have a problem with him deal with it yourself, don't try to use us/the faction for your dirty work"
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Basically, everyone knows Huang Da shouldn't be a council member, and Fu Xiang is rubbing it in. Ji Rong is legit threatening to any but the monsters, but Huang Da is the only one who has no chance whatsoever against him.
 
Thor's Twin said:
and with resolve to walk this harder path that we have decided to pursue.
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Really shoulldn't have tried to murder/cripple this.

I bet the Bloody Moon will have a very nice pitch for us the next time the patron choice shows up.

Anyway, I had to look through the threadmarks for Adoratoise, and holy shit there is some absolutely amazing art there. For everyone that hasn't read all the pages, you'd be very well served in checking the Media threadmarks.
 
Honestly I'm glad we didn't know about the Zhengui thing then because it allowed us to vote on where we want ot go as a character rather than charging in blindly desperate to satisfy SV's raging vengence boner.

Besides we've seen that Meizhen filters everything through the lens of her upbringing, where being feared is the most desirable outcome. Whilst she clearly has points about needing a certain kind of reputation her upbringing and personal circumstances have altered her point of view.

The Bai have maintained their feared reputation for thousands of years, but now they're finding themselves on the wrong end of it. They have no real allies at court who'll stand up for them, even in the face of probably untrue allegations. After all, everyone knows the Bai never forget a grudge so they're prime suspect no 1 in the death of an imperial prince, no matter how minor. Depending on how well Meizhen's mother was known as being a great assassin it could well have been a plot aimed to take her off the board and deepen the bad blood between the Bai and the empire.*

Heck look at Meizhen's own wording: "No-one would have dared to make such an accusation if we were still feared as we should be." But people would absolutely still have looked at the situation and said to themselves "the Bai did this". How many times has that happened down their history? That everyone 'knew' they were responsible but didn't dare voice it. No doubt the Bai were happy to use that to enhance their reputation. But when their power faded that reputation turned on them. Because them totally being unconnected wasn't particularly credible, enough that their enemies could ram through the disownment and execution of Meizhen's mother.

A reputation for retribution is useful, but it is much better when paired with something else. For example Ling Qi's willingness to say that even Ji Rong's rights in this update would lend much greater weight to any claim that she punished someone because of 'justice' rather than because she could.

*If she wasn't it is still entirely possible getting their best assassin was a happy coincedence.
 
On an unrelated note. Depending on how good the White Room is, this developtment has killed the dragon sub plot. No need to negotiate for the site when we have a high level one for free. Especially one that is a three month onsen episode.

Onsen omakes Ho!
 
Kian said:
On an unrelated note. Depending on how good the White Room is, this developtment has killed the dragon sub plot. No need to negotiate for the site when we have a high level one for free. Especially one that is a three month onsen episode.
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That is both my hope and fear. My hope is that the Mystic Vale can be used in conjunction with the White Room, but I fear that it is not to be. If it can be used in conjunction with, then the Mystic Vale is still a great site for us to go to. If it can't, then spending boatloads of money on the site might not be the best option, especially since we want excellent talismans, a flying sword, and who knows what else.
 
Ayashi said:
No.
The puppet factory was too big for YR to have evacueded it in the handful of minutes (half an hour tops depending how far they were) between the start of the attack and when we reached it.
Even before the mission started the residence was already trapped, so hitting YR himself was never in the cards, and the factory evacuated. Only the storage location had any loot.
Technically, hitting the storage first was the best decision since he might have tried to have his worms destroy/evacuate it if we didn't hit it first. And could have ended the mission with literally nothing to show for it.
At least this way we got some (crappy?) shinnies out of it, and a few Sect points.

Overall, and from a OOC PoV, it feels like a coop out from Yrsillar. Whatever the vote ended as, death, torture or worse were never going to happen anyway. Heck, from the very start destroying his fortune was never possible.
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Nah, you're looking at this incorrectly

That was just the latest part of the Yan Renshu plotline. Just like this past update was the culmination of the Outer Sect War plotline, which had an appropriate capstone reward for winning it:

A cultivation site potentially surpassing anything else available on the Mountain with no need to spend further actions securing it.

Just like the Zeqing plotline will have an appropriate capstone reward. Just like the Argent arts treasure hunt will.

And just like the Yan Renshu plotline will.
 
TehChron said:
Nah, you're looking at this incorrectly

That was just the latest part of the Yan Renshu plotline. Just like this past update was the culmination of the Outer Sect War plotline, which had an appropriate capstone reward for winning it:

A cultivation site potentially surpassing anything else available on the Mountain with no need to spend further actions securing it.

Just like the Zeqing plotline will have an appropriate capstone reward. Just like the Argent arts treasure hunt will.

And just like the Yan Renshu plotline will.
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That's bad writing.

It's very important to have capstone plotlines actually give nothing sometimes, and have random happenstance give a lot.
 
We should still want the dragon site. IIRC we can only cultivate on a site once per turn, so having the dragon site on other actions will be helpful and even if the white room gives a bonus to all actions, then it'd just stack with the dragon site.
 
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