Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

But she didn't know what she was doing. If we had followed Meizhen's plan we would have thought Yan Renshu was dead when, in reality, he wasn't.

Yeah.

For all that Meizhen had good reason to be in a killing mood at him, he had her by the numbers and would have completely gotten off losing only a household he had already abandoned a week ago and his decoy in exchange for completely faking his death. It was Ling Qi espousing mercy that led to his attempt being foiled, plus him losing one of his last major storehouses in the bargain.
 
And frankly if you don't think the vote would've been one-sided if we were actually aware of the degree of escalation, well, dunno, have some bridges to sell.
 
But she didn't know what she was doing. If we had followed Meizhen's plan we would have thought Yan Renshu was dead when, in reality, he wasn't.

Yupppp, right before breakthrough without knowledge of what he'd actually done , the guilt of killing someone that ling qi didn't really consider that big a deal would have definitely effected her mindset and may have severely damaged her relationship with Bai because then this peaceful conversation would never have happened.

Also @Ayashi it's pretty late to try to hide our talent. Do remember we've only been a cultivator for less then a year and while we aren't at cai,bai,sun levels we are still very far ahead of many and on top of our class.

Add to that people can see our cultivation levels and would notice we are peak green ,peak bronze.
 
Well there we go, Renshu deserved everything we threw at him some more. He tried to poison Zhengui! Next time we see him I'm pushing hard for kill or cripple permanently.

Huh. I'd been wondering why he didn't try and do something like that, and took it as evidence that he was being cautiously measured.

Turns out he did, but Meizhen was blocking it. Best snek is best snek after all. Although she probably should've told Ling Qi at the time (after all, that way Ling Qi could guard against other avenues), but I'll chalk that up to her wanting to not bother Ling Qi about it.

On one hand, I wish we have made the breakthrough rolls before the council if only to solidify Lind Qi's reputation as a cultivation maniac.
On the other hand, the White chamber, assuming we get to use it this week could be of massive help on breakthrough, and help hide Ling Qi talent, and lower somewhat our opponents preparations against Ling Qi in particular. As in "yeah, i broke through, but that's just because of the chamber, not because i was ready to do it for a month or so already".

Renxiang requested the use of one - I wager it'll probably take a couple weeks before it arrives. It did say it was useful for breaking through "bottlenecks"... not sure if that's meant to be realm breakthroughs or if there's other kinds of bottlenecks that'll show up.

Definitely looking forward to what it does. Granted, the usage is going to need to be shared among the Cai faction, so how much benefit Ling Qi will get (especially if she breaks through before it arrives) is unknown. I'm guessing that it was because of the surrender that Renxiang thought she would be able to request more resources from home, by the by (for those who thought the peace was a betrayal of some kind*.

Spoils being shared is good news. Overall, the meeting gave me a good impression of Renxiang; she presented her case, she assured worries and doubts, she wasn't afraid of doing something unpopular (releasing Ji Rong the same as the other prisoners) out of fairness.

Alas, I don't think so.

It should be ready for a bronze breakthrough next week though!

Heh... so, amusingly, it might've been better to hold off one more week on the big breakthrough attempt - if it boosted the chances well enough, that'd have made (with the drugs) Ling Qi doing a 6-action double breakthrough actually quite possible :p

Do we know where he is? Can't really act on this, and besides that I think we blew our chance to kill him last week so best we can do is break most of his bones and trash his puppets.

Not really - he was never at his residence, so there wasn't a chance on the plan chosen. He was quite possibly not at the production facility either, so actually encountering him might never have been in the cards in the first place. To be honest, I'd be hesitant on Ling Qi going hunting for him... from the present state, at least. It'd be just too much of a time-sink, and it'd still leave the danger of him setting things up so she runs afoul of the sect rules as a final "fuck you" - sending a recording of the 'final encounter' to someone he's paid to take it to an elder or something.

Granted, that thought might be because I've read some similar "screw you" moves in xianxia novels (Desolate Era comes to mind as a recent read)...

Now, if he shows his head again? Or Ling Qi gets wind of his location? Or if Fu Xiang can find it and tells her? Well... we'll have to re-visit the topic of how far Ling Qi can go without risk, I suppose.


* Okay, those who were calling it a betrayal right after the interlude - the prisoner exchange seen in the interlude hasn't happened yet, and Renxiang is informing the chief members of her factions about it, giving them a chance to voice their concerns and addressing them. The material benefits are going to be shared, there's a ransom for Ji Rong, Renxiang is getting her faction an edge with the White Room...
 
It's sad how the thread has the habit of justifying its own bad decisions.

We could also have finished him and looted his everything by hitting the Puppet Factory first.

It would also be hella suspicious if we found the Puppet Factory empty, or at least some discreet valuables looted, when he was supposed to be dead. So we'd force him to lose all of his resources to maintain his ruse, or reveal his ploy. And IIRC, that was the "merciful" side's argument wasn't it? That he'd be harmless without his resources?

The entire argument was "Meizhen knows what she is doing, she wouldn't be taking these drastic measures otherwise". By a vote of two, it went unheeded and now we have driven a wedge yet again between Ling Qi and Meizhen for 800-odd RSS and some sect points.

That his ploy failed is a silver lining, but let us not fool ourselves into thinking it went all according to keikaku.

I know admitting one's wrongs is impossible on the Internet, but still.
 
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Well technicall nothing what was said indicated that Meizhen was cruel.
Ruthless enough to hurt someone early on so that she has peace later but, yes, but not cruel.
 
"We are just going to let that beast Ji Rong run free?" Huang Da said unhappily. As loathe as she was to do it, Ling Qi found herself agreeing, though she wouldn't have put it the way he did. Capturing him in ambush like that wouldn't happen again. "You would allow an unrepentant bandit to potentially steal the place of one of your supporters in the Inner Sect?"

Han Jian didn't look terribly happy either, but he remained silent. Cai Renxiang on the other hand frowned at the outburst, and Huang Da's expression briefly became sheepish. "I did not begin this endeavor for solely selfish purpose," the heiress replied frostily. "His banditry has been punished, his ill gotten goods have been confiscated and his ransom paid. He will compete as fairly as any other."
So Huang Da and Han Jian both dislike Ji Rong. The first was expected, the second looks like Jian is holding a grudge over Rong breaking Fang's jaw.
"That is not to say that you cannot still challenge him yourself Sir Huang," Fu Xiang said lightly. "Duels are of course, still allowed. We must simply all operate within the rules."

"The rules change, but conflict remains, such is the world," Xuan Shi replied, sounding unworried.
Fu Xiang and Xuan Shi are decidedly more neutral. Neither of them actually say what they think of Ji Rong being released, though the wording Xiang uses makes me think he's making a subtle jab at Huang Da: considering the difference in cultivation level between him and Rong it's unlikely a duel would end in the formers favor.
"...It's not that bad a thing, to give him the same benefit that anyone else in lockup would get," Ling Qi said, shifting uncomfortably in her seat. Past the initial dislike and worry at having her position in the tournament threatened… wasn't it good that he wasn't going to be disproportionately punished?

"As miss Ling says, Justice must be even handed," Gan Guangli said, standing behind Cai's seat.
Considering how much Ling Qi talks during these meetings (i.e. practically never), the fact that she spoke out now will probably be remarked on, at least in private. It's especially notable (considering the PR CRX has been spinning) that it was Ling Qi and GG who openly agreed on this.
 
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Xuan Shi sat to her right with his hands folded in his lap and his head tilted down, his wide conical hat shading his face. He had broken through at some point since the last time she had seen him, though it wasn;t complete yet, his physical cultivation seemed to lag his spiritual. On the far side was Huang Da, who she hadn't given a thought to for months. She still felt a hint of revulsion when she looked at him, but it was a fleeting thing. He was solidly in the middle of the second realm, with his spirit just on the edge iof late, putting him firmly at the position of having the lowest cultivation on the council. A fact he was no doubt aware of given, the signs of stress in the blind boys body language. He was tense and on edge.

Across from them were Han Jian and Fu Xiang, the former seeming in a better mood than usual. Perhaps because his cultivation had finally gotten to late second realm, or maybe because Xiulan had been restraining her temper better, she wasn't sure. Fu Xiang on the other hand had the same blandly pleasant expression that he always did, though he seemed to have gotten new robes, deep emerald green ones with embroidered scrollwork resembling eyes on the hems.
So, the cultivation of the current council members:

Xuan Shi: Early Green/Late-Peak? Silver

Huang Da: barely Late/Mid

Han Jian: barely Late/Late

Fu Xiang: Early Green/Bronze?

Cai Renxiang: Early Green/Early Bronze

Bai Meizhan: Early Green/Early Bronze

Gan Guangli: Late-Peak?/Late-Peak?

Ling Qi: Peak/Peak

"Indeed," Cai said. "My lady Mother is satisfied with my progress, and as such has granted me boon. I have elected to request the use of one of our clan's White Rooms for the remainder of the year. It will be prepared by next week."
Victory! Cai Renxiang has managed to establish herself as undisputed master of the Outer Sect, humiliating the heir to the King of the West. If this state of affairs persists to the beginning of the tournament, she might get a bye and pass directly in the Inner Sect. Depending on whether the thing with Yan Renshu and the other older years count against her.

Also, artificial cultivation site that apparently helps with Breakthroughs! Those have to be hideously expensive, and also helps explains how Cai Shenhua achieved White at 50: she had access to a superior cultivation and breakthrough aid on demand, which combined with her high Talent.

Though this is a huge expense for Shenhua, I can't imagine these aren't costly in all areas of creation, transportation, and maintenance. But if Ling Qi combined her timeshare in the Room with all her rare drugs (Thank you, SuSu)... It shouldn't be too fantastical to reach Appraisal Green/Bronze both by the tournament. Perhaps Sun Liling might not pass into the next Green stage, and so Ling Qi can comfortably ensnare her with FVM's debuffs and give a good showing against her?

(Also, the wording of the offer suggests everyone in the council gets to use the room until the end of the year, with the possibility of Cai Renxiang and her retainers getting to use it again later if she manages to accomplish something else in the Inner Sect and beyond. A pro to signing onto Cai after breakthrough.)

"And who do you imagine you have to thank for that!" Meizhen answered, anger in her voice. "Who broke his resources and forced his attention elsewhere. Who ensured that no the toxins he intended to slip in among the fuel for your spirit's fire were destroyed en route? You do not pay attention Qi, so someone must."
Everything about this scene was very good and beautifully emotional and I love it

but that rotshitting wormfucker tried to poison our baby?!! I don't regret changing my vote to not killing him because it got us this scene but the next time he comes up I'm voting to feed him to dogs.
 
It's sad how the thread has the habit of justifying its own bad decisions.

We could also have finished him and looted his everything by hitting the Puppet Factory first.

It would also be hella suspicious if we found the Puppet Factory empty, or at least some discreet valuables looted, when he was supposed to be dead. So we'd force him to lose all of his resources to maintain his ruse, or reveal his ploy. And IIRC, that was the "merciful" side's argument wasn't it? That he'd be harmless without his resources?

The entire argument was "Meizhen knows what she is doing, she wouldn't be taking these drastic measures otherwise". By a vote of two, it went unheeded and now we have driven a wedge yet again between Ling Qi and Meizhen for 800-odd RSS and some sect points.

That his ploy failed is a silver lining, but let us not fool ourselves into thinking it went all according to keikaku.

I know admitting one's wrongs is impossible on the Internet, but still.

We used the information that was available to come up with the best line of progress. That new information has come out that would have changed that decision is fine. However, it still doesn't change what information we had. You can be salty all you want about us not going hard enough. But the decision that we made with the information we had can still be considered a correct decision. You can't take new information and say a past decision was wrong because of the new information. It simply doesn't help anyone. You are completely blowing this out of scope. Things did not go according to plan. That is fine. We have learned valuable information about the characters of both Bai and Renshu. Information that can be used for the next decision point.
 
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It's sad how the thread has the habit of justifying its own bad decisions.

We could also have finished him and looted his everything by hitting the Puppet Factory first.

It would also be hella suspicious if we found the Puppet Factory empty, or at least some discreet valuables looted, when he was supposed to be dead. So we'd force him to lose all of his resources to maintain his ruse, or reveal his ploy. And IIRC, that was the "merciful" side's argument wasn't it? That he'd be harmless without his resources?

The entire argument was "Meizhen knows what she is doing, she wouldn't be taking these drastic measures otherwise". By a vote of two, it went unheeded and now we have driven a wedge yet again between Ling Qi and Meizhen for 800-odd RSS and some sect points.

That his ploy failed is a silver lining, but let us not fool ourselves into thinking it went all according to keikaku.

I know admitting one's wrongs is impossible on the Internet, but still.

that is misrepresentating what the mercy side wanted to achieve. We wanted Ling Qi to be better, to not need to look at life as a zero-sum game and to grow as a person. Even in the new update Ling Qi associates that lifestyle with being pathetic, weak and desperate. The main factor was that Meizhen, was, in the view of the thread overreacting and escalating the punishment to an absurd degree. Killing or at least maining someone for messing with a mission, providing aid to an enemy of ours free of charge and fighting us after we destroyed everything he painstakenly built in the last few years? Total overkill.

If Meizhen had told us that YR had tried to kill Zhengui while he slept, I can assure you the vote would have been clearly in favor of hitting him as hard as possible.
 
The entire argument was "Meizhen knows what she is doing, she wouldn't be taking these drastic measures otherwise". By a vote of two, it went unheeded and now we have driven a wedge yet again between Ling Qi and Meizhen for 800-odd RSS and some sect points.
And Meizhen could very well have pushed for exactly the same thing even if Renshu hadn't taken a swing at Zhengui. She has made her philosophy on establishing a "proper" reputation pretty clear, after all.

The key point here, for us, is that Renshu attacked Zhengui. THAT is what would have changed our decision, and that, if anything, is what makes our choice of being kinder "wrong" in hindsight. But we did not know that at the time, and it wasn't even proposed as an option, not by you nor by anyone else.

You don't get to claim foresight for predicting that Meizhen "had a reason" when she would have acted the same way anyways, and when you didn't have an inkling of the ACTUAL critical point (that Zhengui was attacked).
 
Not really - he was never at his residence, so there wasn't a chance on the plan chosen. He was quite possibly not at the production facility either, so actually encountering him might never have been in the cards in the first place. To be honest, I'd be hesitant on Ling Qi going hunting for him... from the present state, at least. It'd be just too much of a time-sink, and it'd still leave the danger of him setting things up so she runs afoul of the sect rules as a final "fuck you" - sending a recording of the 'final encounter' to someone he's paid to take it to an elder or something.

Granted, that thought might be because I've read some similar "screw you" moves in xianxia novels (Desolate Era comes to mind as a recent read)...

Now, if he shows his head again? Or Ling Qi gets wind of his location? Or if Fu Xiang can find it and tells her? Well... we'll have to re-visit the topic of how far Ling Qi can go without risk, I suppose.


* Okay, those who were calling it a betrayal right after the interlude - the prisoner exchange seen in the interlude hasn't happened yet, and Renxiang is informing the chief members of her factions about it, giving them a chance to voice their concerns and addressing them. The material benefits are going to be shared, there's a ransom for Ji Rong, Renxiang is getting her faction an edge with the White Room...
Seh. Good point actually, it very well could have been that we would not have found him in this particular instance no matter where we went. As for hunting him, I think it is worth it, given that he seems dead set on fucking us over in increasingly creative ways. On the one hand we leave him be, we get damaged in some undefined way and he is free to do it while on the other we hunt and confront him and force him into a more limited set of responses and actions.

I'm pretty sure that with the assistance of Meizhen, we can hunt him and then deal with him in a permanent fashion. My current preference would be multiple broken bones, a time stop(gotten by bringing Cai in), and trashing his ability to make anything for the rest of the year. Given that the time stop has issues of its own however, in both reputation and in how we could swing getting it, I'd be okay with just the first and third things. I see this as pragmatically ruthless, and in this instance and all instances I can think of torture is unnecessary.

Like, Meizhen's philosophy is one which has been cultivated for tens of thousands of years and has a nigh incomprehensible number of proofs to support it. She's right in the base philosophy of "Before mercy, you must be strong, as a simple matter of safety". However, Ling Qi is also right because moderation and consideration of mercy is sometimes needed for unexpected outcomes and to dampen conflict. Like tripping up your enemy, or turning what might have been an enemy into a friend(What we did with Meizhen). Fusing these two schools of thought is something we need to consider, because it seems like they may provide a means for Ling Qi and all her friends to be safe and happy.

Also kind of a funny implication in the text when Qi and Mei were talking about how Ling Qi's life scrabbling in the streets was pathetic, Qi's response about how she doesn't want to devolve to the point she has to/wants to kill could be construed as calling the cultivator system of conflict pathetic if you twist your perspective enough. She certainly didn't mean it, and neither of them caught onto it, but its an interesting thought all the same to me.
 
So Huang Da and Han Jian both dislike Ji Rong. The first was expected, the second looks like Jian is holding a grudge over Rong breaking Fang's jaw.

He is also scared of not making top 8. Which, for someone of his station is a severe blow and will reflect badly on him, his family and his Clan. A lot of pressure to finally succeed.
 
If Meizhen had told us that YR had tried to kill Zhengui while he slept, I can assure you the vote would have been clearly in favor of hitting him as hard as possible.
I agree completely. Communication is critical to achieving goals. Both sides here, Qi and Bai, failed to full communicate their reasons for their choices. This lead to a sub-optimal outcome.
 
So, Yrs was in Discord just now. We didn't get much, but basically we know this:

White room isn't a hyperbolic time chamber. It's a cultivation site and functions like it. It's also available for use EVERY turn until the end of the year, starting next turn.

Ling Qi has taken this situation as a kick in the pants to not be so hyperfocused on cultivation.

In terms of Divination and remote viewing, the person performing the viewing has to roll against a flat DC. DC is determined by the Resolve and Spiritual cultivation of the target as well as any modifiers.

If this was a normal year, Han Jian would be near the top right now, as he is Late/Late.
 
It's sad how the thread has the habit of justifying its own bad decisions.

We could also have finished him and looted his everything by hitting the Puppet Factory first.

It would also be hella suspicious if we found the Puppet Factory empty, or at least some discreet valuables looted, when he was supposed to be dead. So we'd force him to lose all of his resources to maintain his ruse, or reveal his ploy. And IIRC, that was the "merciful" side's argument wasn't it? That he'd be harmless without his resources?

The entire argument was "Meizhen knows what she is doing, she wouldn't be taking these drastic measures otherwise". By a vote of two, it went unheeded and now we have driven a wedge yet again between Ling Qi and Meizhen for 800-odd RSS and some sect points.

That his ploy failed is a silver lining, but let us not fool ourselves into thinking it went all according to keikaku.

I know admitting one's wrongs is impossible on the Internet, but still.
If we had followed Meizhen's plan I don't know if we would have been given the option of hitting the Puppet Factory first. After all her plan of collapsing his residence would have totally failed if he had known something was up, and destroying the puppet factory almost certainly would have tipped him off.

I notice that you still haven't responded to the fact that Meizhen is hardly all knowing, and that in fact her plan would have almost certainly left us worse off. Yes, this is hindsight - it's not like people voting for mercy were arguing that Meizhen's plan would leave us in a state where we thought Renshu was dead but he wasn't. But the information about Zhengui almost getting poisoned is hindsight, the fact that Renshu wasn't at his main base and that the Puppet Factory probably would be the best thing to hit first is hindsight. You don't get to have it both ways here.

I also just checked and you didn't vote for what to hit first. I mean, hey, neither did I. Lives can be busy, and it certainly wasn't obvious which thing we should hit first. But it's more than a little ridiculous for you to NOW say that the thread made an obvious bad decision when you weren't a part of it. Quite frankly, I have no idea why puppet factory was the obvious right choice without the benefit of hindsight.
 
We used the information that was available to come up with the best line of progress. That new information has come out that would have changed that decision is fine. However, it still doesn't change what information we had. You can be salty all you want about us not going hard enough. But the decision that we made with the information we had can still be considered a correct decision. You can't take new information and say a past decision was wrong because of the new information. It simply doesn't help anyone. You are completely blowing this out of scope. Things did not go according to plan. That is fine. We have learned a valuable information about the characters of both Bai and Renshu. Information that can be used for the next decision point.
I sure can feel validated that all the points raised to support the option I backed were proved to be throughly correct.

My problem is how people are crowing this as "all according to keikaku".
when she would have acted the same way anyways, and when you didn't have an inkling of the ACTUAL critical point (that Zhengui was attacked).
:Citation Needed:

The whole point was: This amount of time and effort, to the point fm stalling her cultivation, is utterly abnormal. Due the amount of time we know she has been at this, surely she has a damn good reason. Due to her education, surely she isn't making this decision, investing these resources, lightly.

And, surprise surprise, that is precisely true.

An example must be made? Yes. This was an absolutely critical matter that shouldn't be taken lightly as it was? Also yes.

It was impossible to know about the poisoning or the apparently myriad other things he tried. They were, however, deduced to exist. And such deduction was proven true.
 
Two points:
1. We can only decide which actions to take based on the facts we know and we are utterly dependent on information we can glean from what the GM writes, often using the method of the unreliable narrator.

2. What we know, or what we think we know, and what is the truth are two different things.

Lastly, for those advocating to kill our enemies, why do people always want to turn characters into unthinking trigger-happy psychopaths? There's a time for killing, and a time to review one's copies of Sun Tzu and von Clausewitz before removing one's enemy. Running around without any clear picture only leads to a special mention at the Darwin Awards.
 
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So, the cultivation of the current council members:

Xuan Shi: Early Green/Late-Peak? Silver

Huang Da: barely Late/Mid

Han Jian: barely Late/Late

Fu Xiang: Early Green/Bronze?

Cai Renxiang: Early Green/Early Bronze

Bai Meizhan: Early Green/Early Bronze

Gan Guangli: Late-Peak?/Late-Peak?

Ling Qi: Peak/Peak


Victory! Cai Renxiang has managed to establish herself as undisputed master of the Outer Sect, humiliating the heir to the King of the West. If this state of affairs persists to the beginning of the tournament, she might get a bye and pass directly in the Inner Sect. Depending on whether the thing with Yan Renshu and the other older years count against her.

Also, artificial cultivation site that apparently helps with Breakthroughs! Those have to be hideously expensive, and also helps explains how Cai Shenhua achieved White at 50: she had access to a superior cultivation and breakthrough aid on demand, which combined with her high Talent.

Though this is a huge expense for Shenhua, I can't imagine these aren't costly in all areas of creation, transportation, and maintenance. But if Ling Qi combined her timeshare in the Room with all her rare drugs (Thank you, SuSu)... It shouldn't be too fantastical to reach Appraisal Green/Bronze both by the tournament. Perhaps Sun Liling might not pass into the next Green stage, and so Ling Qi can comfortably ensnare her with FVM's debuffs and give a good showing against her?

(Also, the wording of the offer suggests everyone in the council gets to use the room until the end of the year, with the possibility of Cai Renxiang and her retainers getting to use it again later if she manages to accomplish something else in the Inner Sect and beyond. A pro to signing onto Cai after breakthrough.)


Everything about this scene was very good and beautifully emotional and I love it

but that rotshitting wormfucker tried to poison our baby?!! I don't regret changing my vote to not killing him because it got us this scene but the next time he comes up I'm voting to feed him to dogs.

Han Jian has been Late/Late since Week 33 Part 2. Yrs only talked about his cultivation here as a refresher.

Huang Da is also "solidly on the mid realm", on the edge of getting Late Yellow. That means he's still mid/mid but close to mid/late. It's also possible one of Meizhen's aspects is Appraisal considering Sun's cultivation level and Meizhen's own training regimen.
 
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