Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

Yes it would have. Passives generally give bonuses of 1-2. A dedicated damage art would have given us 1-2 dice, at no extra cost. Therefore it would have been better to have an additional Arm technique than to not have an additional arm technique.
Spine arts are the self-buff ones, not the arms art. In that sense a Arms art wouldn't be necessarily better than another Heart Art, even just for the passive for that fight (say, Crimson Flow Art could have helped us against the poison possibly, and the passive dices would have helped everyone).
I have to agree that we won't be able to rely on pure buffs/debuffs forever. Sometimes, we need to be able to fight by ourselves and this last encounter proved that. The only reason we won was due to a few lucky rolls on our part. Any person with a brain will be gunning for us first(because we're the buffer) and if they slip past we need to be able to put up at least a decent fight. So I'm all for picking arm and defense arts.
The reason we won was due to having a decent team and being able to help them. Us being stronger, and them being stronger, would have helped, of course, but 'stronger' includes "being a better buffer".

I don't understand where you're getting the idead that getting AS4 when we have is unimpressive and that not getting it would have us thrown out of the class?
Sorry, I meant reaching Yellow before AS4.
EDIT: Also, I was exxagerating by 'throw out', though it would definitely mean we won't have any chances to impress her anymore for a good long while.

As to why I think Elder Su doesn't necessarily want us working toward AS 5 before Yellow soul I again point you to week 8
I guess I wasn't clear. I don't think we should get AS5 before Yellow, I think she wants us to work toward it so that it will be faster to get it later on. We are getting a lot of free dices toward AS currently, but AS is actually kind of hard to train without them. Our basic dices for it is just Talent + Spirit Stone. While currently we have +5 from Elder Su and +9 from Qi Foundation pill, both of those will disappear.

Elder Su specifically told us that getting AS 4 would benefit us as long as we got it before going yellow soul, but she also said that going beyond the fourth layer of AS would not provide any more benifits at the red soul stage (Yrsillar's later clarification also bore this out). I.e. that getting AS 5 won't provide us any benifit during the red soul stage, nor will we lose out on any permenant bonuses by not gaining AS5 at the Red stage. She reminded us that practical applications of our cultivation and our situation shouldn't be forgotten.
You are wrong about the earlier part. It just means we won't lose anything by not getting AS5 before Red Soul. We will definiely get AS5's own bonus working in red soul, it just isn't necessary at all to do it before Yellow, while not doing AS4 before Yellow is deciding we want to be a grunt and stop being a cultivator.
Back then she encouraged us to be ambitious, but also to weigh the practical benifits of our choices as well.
I've found a bit of further evidence about Elder Su's personality I'd like to highlight. A few things from week 9:

She values hard work and self motivation, but I'm really interested in her use of the words "meandering along you path". To me that reinforces the idea the Elder Su values targeted, thoughtful and specific ambition within cultivators. Not just reaching high but having a firm plan of how to get there.

We basically agree there, I just ... think I read the opposite of what you mean by 'Balanced'? By Balanced and with targeted goals, I think she wants us to advance a bit of everything and not forget to live our life, either. Doing only AS, or only spiritual, or only Arts, or only Qi, or only Meridian is clearly not what she wants, but, above all, she thinks all of it is important. None should be left by the wayside.

Sure, it's important not to behind the rest of the pack, but we aren't doing that either. We are targetting the optimal use of our resources and actions to get spiritual, argent soul, qi, meridian and arts to the highest point before the end of the Truce. Now, I would prefer a plan that has both AS and Spiritual, like mine, but a plan that has AS and Qi, and will get Qi and Meridian and Arts and Spiritual next week, is more balanced and has better goals and focus that one who dismisses part of our growth.
 
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@Kshail, I don't think we'll be able to break through to yellow by the end of the truce with the current plan. It would require more spiritual cultivation actions this turn in order to reach the peak in the 12 week with two actions to spare.
 
@Kshail, I don't think we'll be able to break through to yellow by the end of the truce with the current plan. It would require more spiritual cultivation actions this turn in order to reach the peak in the 12 week with two actions to spare.
We could, but people pointed out the benefits of doing Sable Light + Qi Foundation, half of which stops working, at least with the version we have, if we go Yellow or Silver.
 
speaking of buying pills, what should be the limit to the number of spirit stones we spend on pills be? Should it be, see as we go, or a hard limit in order to preserve an emergency supply of spirit stones?
 
Hard to say. I'd like to keep 8 in reserve, but I could be convinced to go lower. Once the truce ends, we're likely to start sponging up cultivation resources from our peers, one way or another.
 
... Didn't she say AS 5 literally gave no benefit whatsoever to a red soul cultivator? I'm pretty sure she did.

But we have 5 autosux just from cultivating at the Vent. We always make progress in AS. No time for it right now.
No, please actually read what she said, that:
-AS 4 must be done before Yellow, or you lose out on certain permanent benefits
-AS 5 has no Red exclusive bonuses, so you should feel free to breakthrough first before getting it if there is a need

NOT that AS 5 is useless at Red. She's explaining it to us so we don't rush to Yellow before AS 4 and undermine our progress.
Since we have attained AS 4, the statement is currently no longer relevant to planning. It's back to normal cost-benefit analysis.
 
No, please actually read what she said, that:
-AS 4 must be done before Yellow, or you lose out on certain permanent benefits
-AS 5 has no Red exclusive bonuses, so you should feel free to breakthrough first before getting it if there is a need

NOT that AS 5 is useless at Red. She's explaining it to us so we don't rush to Yellow before AS 4 and undermine our progress.
Since we have attained AS 4, the statement is currently no longer relevant to planning. It's back to normal cost-benefit analysis.
... No?
Going beyond the fourth layer will not provide any additional benefits at the Red Soul Stage though."
Says there, plain and simple, AS 5 does not provide anything beyond AS 4 already does, if you are still in the Red Soul Stage.

Yrsillar also clarified such.
 
Says there, plain and simple, AS 5 does not provide anything beyond AS 4 already does, if you are still in the Red Soul Stage.

Yrsillar also clarified such.

The question was about whether getting AS5 before Yellow would provide unique, exclusive benefits that we couldn't have otherwise, like make all benefits 20% stronger than if we were to get it in Yellow and so on, not about if it gets any benefit at all.

Yrsillar's clarification also wasn't about that.

EDIT: The question is, as other said, moot anyway. No one is planning to get AS5 before Yellow.
 
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The question was about whether getting AS5 before Yellow would provide unique, exclusive benefits that we couldn't have otherwise, like make all benefits 20% stronger than if we were to get it in Yellow and so on, not about if it gets any benefit at all.

Yrsillar's clarification also wasn't about that.

To be fair, I'm not pushing to get AS5 before yellow, or after. I'm pushing to use our cultivation resources efficiently.
 
That was specifically within the context of us raising the topic in regard to breakthroughs, and yrsillar's clarification absolutely made no affirmative statement to the effect that AS5 had no further bonuses of any kind that would apply within red soul.

Looked at another way, AS4 does have "additional benefits" at the red stage as compared to the yellow stage, as the breakthrough bonus is not helpful after breaking through. AS5 does not have additional benefits in the red stage, as compared to in the yellow stage.

Following the patterns of growth in Argent Soul, there's no reason to expect that the 5th layer of the technique would not continue to have generic global bonuses such as additional Qi, health boxes, or cultivation dice, and there is no precedent for such to only be qualified for in the Yellow Stage. It's possible, but would be very very strange given what we know of the technique.

The whole topic is also pointless, as there is no prospect that we'd have AS5 before breaking through to Yellow Soul at this point. It's moot.
 
Vote Tally : Original - Fantasy - Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest) | Page 139 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.4

[21] Beneath the Horizon of my Contempt Mk 2
-[1] Plan: TotallyNotEvil — https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/8458646
[8] Beneath the Horizon of my Contempt.
-[1] Plan: TheLastOne — https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/8458177
[1] Plan: ◈Creep protection — https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/8456864
[1] Plan: ◈Art Prep — https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/8458509
[1] Plan: ◈Market and Celestial Tokens — https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/8461145
[1] Prepare for trouble, and make it double
-[1] Plan: Raron — https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/8464484
[1] Fast and Steady

Total No. of Voters: 34
 
Okay looks like the winning vote has a pretty solid lead. Locking now.

I'll put up the shop list and a quote on the staff in a bit for you guys to deliberate on.
 
So let's talk about budget, because we'll probably go all googly eyed when we have a chance to see what's on offer, and so we should try and set boundaries BEFORE we know. Sort of like making sure you don't go shopping hungry.
 
So let's talk about budget, because we'll probably go all googly eyed when we have a chance to see what's on offer, and so we should try and set boundaries BEFORE we know. Sort of like making sure you don't go shopping hungry.

Anything that becomes useless to us after we hit Yellow should be considered expendable.

I would say we should leave a floor of 6 red stones, I don't think we'll need more than that to hit Peak Red/Gold.

Hopefully we can get some decent weapons at least. Doesn't even need to be a great one--just better than the shitty throwing knives we're currently using so we can narrow the equipment gap a bit.
 
The best would be if we can get flying swords or something, even if we need something like "Zephyr's Breath rank 3" to use them, it'd be worthwhile as long as we get to use our Throwing Knives skill for them.

They're pretty regularly cheap, and reasonably effective to boot. Alternately, having some kind of inscriptions on our knives to let them being single-shot special moves would be handy as well.
 
Shop List, Job Board and Sect Rewards
Medicine
  • Consumables
    • Life Essence Salve: Heals a single point of lethal damage completely. Not usable in combat. One per week. 12 Stones
    • Misty Lake Charm: Attempts to remotely view or use divination upon the user suffer a six die penalty for two hours upon use. 30 Red Stones
    • Obfuscation Charm: Attempts to remotely view or use divination upon the user suffer a three die penalty for six hours. 20 red Stones
    • Blinding Fate Charm: Attempts to remotely view or use divination upon the user suffer a two success penalty for up to four hours. 50 Red Stones
    • Dragon's Endurance Pill: Restores fifteen qi to the user. Usable five times per day at third realm, or once at second. 40 Red Stones
    • Bountiful Earth's Blessing: This elixir restores up to forty qi to the user. Usable once per day. Do not use if below third realm. 100 Red stones
    • Qi Card: Stores a single technique of three dots or lower indefinitely. Techniques stored use only the casters base stats in clashes. 10 Charges. 40 red Stones
    • Greater Qi Card: Stores a single technique of three dots or lower indefinitely. Techniques stored are used as with the casters full baseline dice pool. Talisman bonuses and auto successes are not included. The user must be within the same cultivation realm as the caster. 3 charges. 120 red Stones.
  • Base Cultivation
    • Sturdy Oak Pill: Adds eight dice to physical, spiritual and Qi cultivation. 18 Red Spirit Stones
    • Bear's Heartsblood Elixir: Adds six dice to physical cultivation. One third of successes are added to Qi increase. 10 Red Spirit Stones
    • Soul Concentrating Elixir: Adds five dice to spiritual cultivation. One third of successes added to Qi cultivation. 10 Red Spirit Stones
    • Qi Sea Pill: Causes all successes on Qi cultivation to be rerolled once. Rerolls do not proc additional rerolls. 35 Red Spirit Stones
    • Heavy Rains Pill: Adds six dice to meridian clearing attempts, eases penalty for failures. 15 Red Spirit Stones

Green Stone purchases:
First stone per 4 week period: 200 red stones
Standard price: 500 Red Stones


Common Pills

Elemental Boosts:
-Imperial Eight and Traditional Five(cost per element boosted)
5 dice: 10 red stones
10 dice: 30 red stones
15 dice: 70 red stones

-Exotic Elements
5 dice: 15 red stones
10 dice: 40 red stones

Spiritual or Physical Cultivation
5 dice: 15 red stones
10 dice: 35 red stones
15 dice: 60 red stones
20 dice: 90 Red stones

Spiritual and Physical Cultivation
5 dice: 20 red stones
10 dice: 45 red stones
15 dice: 75 red stones

Meridians
5 dice: 25 red stones
10 dice: 60 Red stones

Qi
5 dice: 5 red stones
10 dice: 20 red stones
15 dice: 45 red stones
20 dice: 60 Red Stones


Talismans and Tools

Escape Talismans

Soaring Charm: A woven bracelet with the shape of a bird picked out among its threads in jade. Upon being broken, transports the user up to half a kilometer in any direction. Landing accuracy improved by knowledge of destination, injury may occur if user is unfamiliar with target location. 300 Red Stones

Black-White Orb: A clay sphere that fits in the palm of one's hand painted half black and half white. Upon being crushed, transports the user up to one kilometer in any direction. User buffered from harmful landings. 500 Red Stones

Scarlet Thread: A length of formation inscribed cord meant to be worn around the wrist. Upon breaking, the user is transported up to one kilometer in any direction, and gains a two success bonus to stealth against all attempts to perceive them, remote or otherwise, for one hour. User buffered from harmful landings. 800 Red Stones


Accessories

All Talismans at third realm and above must be custom ordered. However delivery time is immediate for any talisman costing two hundred red stones or less which do not include any personal resource additions, due to pulling from sect storage.

Immediate orders may request up to two different effects in a single talisman. Talismans using beast cores or other reagents take 3 weeks for delivery

Flying Swords:
Neophyte's Blade
A simple hiltless blade made of plain high quality steel. Forged without elemental alignment, this blade is best used as a practice aid for those just beginning to touch their domains, but unsure of their long term wishes. DV 6. Durability 6. Neutral. Dexterity+Wits. 150 Red Stones

Glacial Fang
A curved blade carved from glittering blue tinted ice and inlaid with curving patterns of powdered onyx, whose touch freezes flesh and blood. Best used by cultivators who maintain a cool head in conflict. DV 9. Durability 10. Dexterity+Intelligence. Water. Deals 1 additional Cold damage on hit. 300 Red Stones

Falcon's talon
A long dagger of brilliant emerald, which strikes and flits away before the wounds it inflicts may even bleed. DV 7, Durability 10. Dexterity+Wits. Wind. Acts on user's initiative+4. 300 Red Stones

Custom Option: As with other talisman's you may request a custom blade. Specify an element, a form, and an attribute combo to receive a weapon the following week time.


As a side note armor works very simply, Armor value is subtracted from damage dealt to you a number of times equal to the items durability. Armor reduced to zero durability breaks.

Sect rewards
All archive access is one time


1st floor archive access: 10 points

2cnd floor archive access: 20 points

3rd floor archive access: 50 points

Formations lessons: 10 points per week

Medicine Lessons: 10 points per week

Single tutoring from an inner disciple: 15 points
-Subject to be selected on purchase

One Weeks tutoring from an inner disciple: 30 points
-subject to be selected on purchase

Use of Production Hall: 5 points

Use of Medicine Hall: 5 points
Conversion to spirit stones: 1 point to five red stones


Job Board

Basic Gathering Mission: The Medicine and production Hall have an endless thirst for ingredients. A simple job collecting and harvesting wild plants and other inanimate materials. 2 points. Repeatable

Intermediate Gathering Mission: Many medicinal herbs and materials grow in dangerous places. This mission pays more highly for the danger it brings. 4 points. Repeatable

Hard Gathering Mission: Not recommended for those in the first stage of cultivation. Although it requires no combat, the herbs and reagents required will force the disciple to conflict with dangerous beasts and spirits in the forest at the base of the mountain. 8 points. Repeatable

Basic Hunting Mission: Beast hides, cores, bones and other materials are necessary for talisman production. Someone must hunt down such things for beginning crafters to use in practicing their craft. 3 points. Repeatable

Intermediate hunting Mission: More advanced beasts require more advanced hunters and offer greater rewards. 6 points. Repeatable

Difficult Hunting Mission: The most dangerous hunting tasks regularly available to the Outer Sect. 12 points. Repeatable

Camp Overseer: The farmlands of the Sect are due for further expansion, disciples are required to oversee the safety of workers clearing land and priests placing new totems and making overtures to the spirits. Long hours should be expected. 25 points.

Planting: The once plagued portion of the forest has been satisfactorily cleansed. Disciples are required for the new growth rituals to begin restoring it to good order. 25 points.
 
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Ooooh...

Hm, @yrsillar

I don't suppose we could get an estimate as to what the cost on upgrading our Bamboo Flute to a proper Treasure would be? Ideally something that could double as a melee weapon in a pinch.

If that won't get us something great though, the armguards/knives seems like a good pick to give us more punchiness and defensiveness

EDIT: Our effective budget is 43 Red Spirit Stones folks.
 
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The staff is valued at thirty five spirit stones in sale value, Talismans of similar value are sold for upwards of sixty stones, in as far as they are displayed

AN: So this is the shop list, it consists of the things Ling Qi found interesting and which were available this week, it is thus subject to change in the future. But yes, you may now vote on a spending plan, same format as the normal vote plans.

As a side note armor works very simply, Armor value is subtracted from damage dealt to you a number of times equal to the items durability. Armor reduced to zero durability breaks.
I say we try to trade the staff for a custom 'Azure Sea Sash, only Darkness.' You guys with me?
 
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