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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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veekie said:
How would that interact with Ling Qi's mobility and range next? Meteoric spit I can see(barring literally growing cannons), but how would her mobility interact with a manifestation of immovable object?
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Well, I've been beginning to think of spirit beasts as a collection of related techniques (sort of like an art). The really cool thing though is that spirit beasts can learn to do stuff outside of their set of techniques. I'm not so sure how much influence Ling Qi's abilities and arts have on it, but we do know that Zhengui at least is learning from experience.

For instance, Zhengui learning how to cloak his qi? That's genius. Xuanwu don't learn to cloak themselves. Like you said they are trundling mountains that go where they want to go and nothing can really stop them, especially once they grow up. A Xuanwu learning how to do things differently and seeing that there is a different way to approach a problem makes Zhengui much scarier to face off against. A creature as powerful as a Xuanwu learning how to become an ambush predator by figuring out ways to hide his qi and various ways to disguise himself makes Zhengui a terrifying proposition to fight against.

We now have a spirit beast that is a powerful offensive and defensive fighter learning the value of surprise and patience, something that I bet most Xuanwu don't learn. Each new trick he picks up to deal with different problems is a trick or technique that a typical Xuanwu might not have, which makes Zhengui a better Xuanwu. And Xuanwu, by themselves, are terrifying.

On to what other techniques Zhengui might acquire through his connection to us. I'm thinking, if he can learn it, that Zhengui will figure out a way to hide his qi and camouflage his body (fire = mirage, wood = physical camouflage?). He has seen the power and usefulness of stealth and so he might push himself to figure out ways to become stealthier. I'm sure that he will also develop his physical crowd control (which will be super useful in our mists) as well as increasing the potency of his napalm venom. Other than that, a single target TRF would be super useful for him, just becoming a veritable tank.

But yeah, bound spirit beasts are able to break out of their predetermined molds because they can see a different way of doing things, and that different way may be better. At least, that is my theory at the moment.
 
Thor's Twin said:
Well, I've been beginning to think of spirit beasts as a collection of related techniques (sort of like an art). The really cool thing though is that spirit beasts can learn to do stuff outside of their set of techniques. I'm not so sure how much influence Ling Qi's abilities and arts have on it, but we do know that Zhengui at least is learning from experience.

For instance, Zhengui learning how to cloak his qi? That's genius. Xuanwu don't learn to cloak themselves. Like you said they are trundling mountains that go where they want to go and nothing can really stop them, especially once they grow up. A Xuanwu learning how to do things differently and seeing that there is a different way to approach a problem makes Zhengui much scarier to face off against. A creature as powerful as a Xuanwu learning how to become an ambush predator by figuring out ways to hide his qi and various ways to disguise himself makes Zhengui a terrifying proposition to fight against.

We now have a spirit beast that is a powerful offensive and defensive fighter learning the value of surprise and patience, something that I bet most Xuanwu don't learn. Each new trick he picks up to deal with different problems is a trick or technique that a typical Xuanwu might not have, which makes Zhengui a better Xuanwu. And Xuanwu, by themselves, are terrifying.

On to what other techniques Zhengui might acquire through his connection to us. I'm thinking, if he can learn it, that Zhengui will figure out a way to hide his qi and camouflage his body (fire = mirage, wood = physical camouflage?). He has seen the power and usefulness of stealth and so he might push himself to figure out ways to become stealthier. I'm sure that he will also develop his physical crowd control (which will be super useful in our mists) as well as increasing the potency of his napalm venom. Other than that, a single target TRF would be super useful for him, just becoming a veritable tank.

But yeah, bound spirit beasts are able to break out of their predetermined molds because they can see a different way of doing things, and that different way may be better. At least, that is my theory at the moment.
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From what I can tell his proximity and connection to us is influencing him. The primarily Yin Dark/Wind QI in our dantian seems to be encouraging him to express the Yin aspects of his Fire and Wood elements. Which makes sense, since we have been influenced in turn.

Erebeal said:
So, with this WoG, I think we have a new tagline:

Forge of Destiny - where sunflowers are evil spirits, and rainbows may be totalitarian dictators
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Quick! Someone make "rainbows may be totalitarian dictators" a tag!
 
BungieONI said:
From what I can tell his proximity and connection to us is influencing him. The primarily Yin Dark/Wind QI in our dantian seems to be encouraging him to express the Yin aspects of his Fire and Wood elements. Which makes sense, since we have been influenced in turn.
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Could you imagine Zhengui getting dark aligned meridians? I mean, a Xuanwu with SCS? That would be terrifying to behold. A mountain of fire, ash, and death everywhere and nowhere all at once.
 
Thor's Twin said:
Could you imagine Zhengui getting dark aligned meridians? I mean, a Xuanwu with SCS? That would be terrifying to behold. A mountain of fire, ash, and death everywhere and nowhere all at once.
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You forget with his grass element he could be a regeneration mountain of fire, ash, and death. That's not accounting for the his ability to entangle foes with plants.
 
Thor's Twin said:
Could you imagine Zhengui getting dark aligned meridians? I mean, a Xuanwu with SCS? That would be terrifying to behold. A mountain of fire, ash, and death everywhere and nowhere all at once.
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*Hello! I'm in your shadow!*

*Hey! You remember that mountain over there? Yeah, it's on top of you now.*

Yeah. I can imagine the horror and pants-shitting terror he could evoke if he got a "trick" like SCS. It's doubtful he will though.

Speaking of the death element I think it would be in theory possible for him to develop it under our influence, based on the fact that volcanoes are engines of mass death and destruction. Of course this is pretty much my only reason for thinking this.

Much more likely to advance to using ash elements, since that seems like a nice Yin combination of Wood and Fire.
 
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What type of movement skill do you think Zhengui will develop? A fire based one, a plant based one, or some combination of both?
 
Bass11 said:
You forget with his grass element he could be a regeneration mountain of fire, ash, and death.
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Well, he's not really grass element. His primary elements are, as far as anyone can determine, fire and wood. I was referring to mountain because he is going to become one big boy and then fire and ash are the fire and wood combo.

Speaking of primary elements, he is probably going to focus on: yang wood for defense, Yang Fire from his fire breath, Yin wood for crowd control (the writhing roots, or would that be yin?), and then yin fire for napalm poison (probably yin fire/wood though).

All in all the combination of fire and wood make for a dangerous combo, especially if he learns the trick of how to conceal his qi to a degree.
 
Thor's Twin said:
Well, he's not really grass element. His primary elements are, as far as anyone can determine, fire and wood. I was referring to mountain because he is going to become one big boy and then fire and ash are the fire and wood combo.

Speaking of primary elements, he is probably going to focus on: yang wood for defense, Yang Fire from his fire breath, Yin wood for crowd control (the writhing roots, or would that be yin?), and then yin fire for napalm poison (probably yin fire/wood though).

All in all the combination of fire and wood make for a dangerous combo, especially if he learns the trick of how to conceal his qi to a degree.
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About how big is he anyway at mid red?

Anyway I am actually expecting him to start showing a Kohatu-lite regeneration either when he hits late red or breaks through. Speaking of that when do we think he is going to? I've just had a thought occur to me that perhaps we should try to breakthrough together, though its only a passing fancy.

Bass11 said:
What type of movement skill do you think Zhengui will develop? A fire based one, a plant based one, or some combination of both?
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None is my guess, he'll just get faster due to sheer cultivation and qi. Xuanwu's don't really speak to me as "fast" at least when one is discussing "normal" Xuanwu's.

Now since he is with us, that may change and he may figure out a "trick" on his own which lets him keep up with Big Sis.

For now though we got to help him along.
 
BungieONI said:
About how big is he anyway at mid red?
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About half a meter long, ignoring his serpentine half.

However, what is important is his rate of growth, take this quote for instance.

yrsillar said:
Zhengui had grown, and not just physically. When she had lain down for her weekly sleep, he had still been big enough to fit in her hands. When she had awoken and gone to fetch him from his kiln, she had found the entrance cracked open, and two much larger sets of eyes staring sheepishly up at her.

She could still pick him up comfortably, and even hold him in her arms, but he was nearly a half meter long, ignoring his serpentine half.
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This indicates that the growth from low red to mid red was about a foot increase (if he was already 6 inches long). If he keeps increasing in size at this rate then he should double in size again at late red meaning he will be 1 and 1/2 meter long.

He's going to become really big if this keeps up.
 
Thor's Twin said:
Speaking of speed, in the darkness, we have: 24 base, 4 for SCS, 3 for bonus SCS, 5 with Trackless escape, and another 5 for SCS. That means that we have a potential to get 41 speed per action. If an action is 6 seconds then we are running about 7 meters per second. This is crazy fast.
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Huh.... 7m/s is crazy slow. RL people can do 12m/s.

If we assume that RL people are maxxed out stats (and I'm unsure if that's even possible but whatever), that would be Dex 5 + STR 5 + Human 5, so speed 15. So movement 30 (full on running) would be around 12m/s. My guess is that 'quest' humans are better, even as mortal, so it would be 15m/s.

So we could go at around speed/s when going all out, which is much more in tune with not being a bit over half as fast as real world humans, but instead a bit under thrice as fast.
 
Thor's Twin said:
About half a meter long, ignoring his serpentine half.

However, what is important is his rate of growth, take this quote for instance.



This indicates that the growth from low red to mid red was about a foot increase (if he was already 6 inches long). If he keeps increasing in size at this rate then he should double in size again at late red meaning he will be 1 and 1/2 meter long.

He's going to become really big if this keeps up.
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By the coitus of the Father and Mother! :confused:

Big boy indeed. We'll have to see how big he gets after Yellow Breakthrough.

I uh... expect we are going to need a bigger room when that happens.
 
Arkeus said:
Huh.... 7m/s is crazy slow. RL people can do 12m/s.

If we assume that RL people are maxxed out stats (and I'm unsure if that's even possible but whatever), that would be Dex 5 + STR 5 + Human 5, so speed 15. So movement 30 (full on running) would be around 12m/s. My guess is that 'quest' humans are better, even as mortal, so it would be 15m/s.

So we could go at around speed/s when going all out, which is much more in tune with not being a bit over half as fast as real world humans, but instead a bit under thrice as fast.
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That's sprinting though. The fastest marathon time ever was about 3-4 meters per second. Usain Bolt got up to 12 meters per second. The thing is we can do 7 meters per second indefinitely.

Also, that calculation is based on a 6 second action space. If that 6 second action space is for the whole turn (two actions) then we can get to 14m/s. That increases even further if an action is only 5 seconds, or 4 seconds.

The speed system is designed more from a narrative standpoint it seems like and breaking it down into m/s makes it a little wonky.

Edit: whoops not 44 m/s that was 44km/h totally different.
Edit2: Yeah, Usain bolt can get up to 12m/s
 
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Thor's Twin said:
Mechanically it helps keep the distance between us and an opponent. If we start out at a distance from them, we can move and fire, while they have to move and move. The higher our speed and the lower their speed the longer it will take for them to catch up to us. It's amazing for kiting and hit and run tactics.
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How viable is kiting if we're normally fighting in a group of slower people and need to keep them in our support radius?
 
Thor's Twin said:
About half a meter long, ignoring his serpentine half.

However, what is important is his rate of growth, take this quote for instance.



This indicates that the growth from low red to mid red was about a foot increase (if he was already 6 inches long). If he keeps increasing in size at this rate then he should double in size again at late red meaning he will be 1 and 1/2 meter long.

He's going to become really big if this keeps up.
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Looking at that quote, what I love is the little line "When she had lain down for her weekly sleep".

It's one of those nice little touches.
 
Erebeal said:
Looking at that quote, what I love is the little line "When she had lain down for her weekly sleep".

It's one of those nice little touches.
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Yeah. I got a nice giggle out of the fact of "Oh hey we only sleep once a week".

Pfft.

Wonder how much a Green needs to sleep. And if there are any arts which "store" strength for future use, but require the cultivator to sleep much much more frequently.
 
mc2rpg said:
Every once in awhile when ZB+ came up over those 500 pages I would ask if we would be looking at other wind arts on the same floor as ZB+, and I was always told by the people supporting it 'sure, but ZB+ will obviously be the goal'. Turns out that was bullshit and we just get stuck with ZB variants instead of seeing other wind options along with them. Things that might have been worth the time of an Elder.
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It had to do with how we are getting Elder tutoring, and we couldn't have an 'archive action' where we look for things fit in a plan. This made it awkward.

Though TBH limiting the choice to ZB makes it much less of a drama. I don't really understand why people would think ZB+ would be weaker than another second floor art that doesn't have the ZB accumulation to make it stronger, but I might be biased.

@yrsillar, you forgot @Katreus two points into investigation, or the threadmarked moon guide isn't worth points?
 
Arkeus said:
Though TBH limiting the choice to ZB makes it much less of a drama. I don't really understand why people would think ZB+ would be weaker than another second floor art that doesn't have the ZB accumulation to make it stronger, but I might be biased.
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I think it would be weaker because the second tier of the weakest tier of arts in the setting are probably not comparable to something not a single step up from the weakest tier of arts in the setting. Whatever though, we live and learn and get arts that probably aren't going to be useful for long at least in part due to sunk costs, that is just life.
 
mc2rpg said:
I think it would be weaker because the second tier of the weakest tier of arts in the setting are probably not comparable to something not a single step up from the weakest tier of arts in the setting. Whatever though, we live and learn and get arts that probably aren't going to be useful for long at least in part due to sunk costs, that is just life.
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It would be a lesson yeah.

My own impression is that it's the weakest tier of art because it was a early gold art that capped at mid gold, not because it's weaker in quality than other archive 1 arts. As such, a second floor archive successor art that goes up from late gold and on would trade quality compared to the good stuff like Argent art by having many more levels, having a result only slightly less good when both are capped (and stronger earlier on).

@yrsillar, considering we are doing a market action this should be relevant: I think you have forgotten the 25 stone/week from Cai in week 26 and week 27, so we should have 50 more stone.
 
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Arkeus said:
My own impression is that it's the weakest tier of art because it was a early gold art that capped at mid gold, not because it's weaker in quality than other archive 1 arts. As such, a second floor archive art that goes up from late gold and on would trade quality compared to the good stuff like Argent art by having many more levels, having a result only slightly less good when both are capped (and stronger earlier on).
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Even though I think you are wrong about this I don't think it is impossible. I just wish we had a chance to actually see the competition instead of seeing just these three variants of one thing.
 
An alternative possibility is that ZB is just basically just a simple training version of the higher Zephyr arts, designed for new cultivators, and its abilities say nothing about how strong the full arts are.
 
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