only his heart was transplanted but it was like a super-duper enchanted heart that gives him boosts to the rest of his body's function and shit.
Scion's appearance happened in 1982. Phantom Blood was published in 1987. Japan sank in 1999. With this in mind, we can imagine that Phantom Blood may or may not exist in this timeline. However, the sinking of Kyushu Probably killed the manga industry, so Jojo's would've ended at around Vento Aureo/Golden Wind, assuming that the series continued releasing in this timeline. However, it's entirely possible that Araki would've moved to the USA after the fall of Kyushu (he's kind of a west-aboo anyways), and found some other way to express his art, in the same way that the creator of Fate influenced the Princess show and Avalon: Web of Magic.
However, it's canon that the appearance of capes kind-of killed the comics industry, because it's supposedly a lot less interesting to read comics about superheroes when you've got the real thing. I don't know exactly how the manga and comics industries are linked irl, but I imagine there's some sort of link between them. So, it's possible that this phenomena had some sort of effect on the Jojo's manga. However, we still see in this fic that there are shows like princess gwenevere based around people with magical powers that were pretty popular. This could suggest that the lowered interest in that sort of media was only temporary reaction to the appearance of capes, which happened to last for long enough to kill off the comics industry.
So basically it's possible and even likely that Jojo's Bizarre Adventure manifested very differently in this timeline, if it ever came to be at all - I don't know exactly what inspired Araki during the 80s, how long he worked on workshopping or finding a publisher before the publishing of Jojo's, or other factors. I think that at the minimum the divergence in the plot would mean that Stands either didn't exist or were more rooted in Hamon or having some-other manifestation. There's also the potential that Araki died, triggered, or et cetera in this timeline. similar to the famed incident where Michael Jordan triggered on the court.
Source on the Italyaboo thing? Araki's cultural fixations seem pretty evenly split between American and Italian with what bleeds into Jojo - the music references are mostly american bands, there's italian people in every part, there's a relatively small but still significant cowboy presence in the combined cast of every part (including Gyro who is both italian and a cowboy), etc. - "Westaboo" seems an apt description, given that Italy is considered "western-culture".
only his heart was transplanted but it was like a super-duper enchanted heart that gives him boosts to the rest of his body's function and shit.
Scion's appearance happened in 1982. Phantom Blood was published in 1987. Japan sank in 1999. With this in mind, we can imagine that Phantom Blood may or may not exist in this timeline. However, the sinking of Kyushu Probably killed the manga industry, so Jojo's would've ended at around Vento Aureo/Golden Wind, assuming that the series continued releasing in this timeline. However, it's entirely possible that Araki would've moved to the USA after the fall of Kyushu (he's kind of a west-aboo anyways), and found some other way to express his art, in the same way that the creator of Fate influenced the Princess show and Avalon: Web of Magic.
However, it's canon that the appearance of capes kind-of killed the comics industry, because it's supposedly a lot less interesting to read comics about superheroes when you've got the real thing. I don't know exactly how the manga and comics industries are linked irl, but I imagine there's some sort of link between them. So, it's possible that this phenomena had some sort of effect on the Jojo's manga. However, we still see in this fic that there are shows like princess gwenevere based around people with magical powers that were pretty popular. This could suggest that the lowered interest in that sort of media was only temporary reaction to the appearance of capes, which happened to last for long enough to kill off the comics industry.
So basically it's possible and even likely that Jojo's Bizarre Adventure manifested very differently in this timeline, if it ever came to be at all - I don't know exactly what inspired Araki during the 80s, how long he worked on workshopping or finding a publisher before the publishing of Jojo's, or other factors. I think that at the minimum the divergence in the plot would mean that Stands either didn't exist or were more rooted in Hamon or having some-other manifestation. There's also the potential that Araki died, triggered, or et cetera in this timeline. similar to the famed incident where Michael Jordan triggered on the court.
While I can't answer most of this, I can tell you a couple of key facts: Phantom Blood was inspired by Araki's own work as an assistant on Fist Of The North Star, which is why the art look similar in that first arc. Stardust Crusaders, where the Stands were introduced, almost assuredly doesn't exist or is different because it was inspired by X-Men. Specifically a psychic battle between Professor X and someone else at a nightclub, where they were fighting on the psychic plane, but all the other people saw was two men convulsing.
While I don't know what spurred him to be interested in X-Men, I do know that the fighting game was spurred on by X-Men Children Of The Atom, which did a lot to increase the popularity of X-Men in Japan. Araki hoped that his fighting game would become a sensation in America the same way X-Men: children Of The Atom did in Japan
While I can't answer most of this, I can tell you a couple of key facts: Phantom Blood was inspired by Araki's own work as an assistant on Fist Of The North Star, which is why the art look similar in that first arc. Stardust Crusaders, where the Stands were introduced, almost assuredly doesn't exist or is different because it was inspired by X-Men. Specifically a psychic battle between Professor X and someone else at a nightclub, where they were fighting on the psychic plane, but all the other people saw was two men convulsing.
While I don't know what spurred him to be interested in X-Men, I do know that the fighting game was spurred on by X-Men Children Of The Atom, which did a lot to increase the popularity of X-Men in Japan. Araki hoped that his fighting game would become a sensation in America the same way X-Men: children Of The Atom did in Japan
The first X-Men comic came out in 1963*, so thats a good 17 years worth of Comics before the butterfly effect hit via Entity crash. Assuming it didn't die out instantly afterwards, could be another 5-10 years or so of comics. So the inspiration for Stardust Crusaders could have still happened, depending on whether or not it ocured in the comics or not. (not familiar with the particular scene of Prof. X pyschic spaz fighting in a nightclub personally)
only his heart was transplanted but it was like a super-duper enchanted heart that gives him boosts to the rest of his body's function and shit.
Scion's appearance happened in 1982. Phantom Blood was published in 1987. Japan sank in 1999. With this in mind, we can imagine that Phantom Blood may or may not exist in this timeline. However, the sinking of Kyushu Probably killed the manga industry, so Jojo's would've ended at around Vento Aureo/Golden Wind, assuming that the series continued releasing in this timeline. However, it's entirely possible that Araki would've moved to the USA after the fall of Kyushu (he's kind of a west-aboo anyways), and found some other way to express his art, in the same way that the creator of Fate influenced the Princess show and Avalon: Web of Magic.
However, it's canon that the appearance of capes kind-of killed the comics industry, because it's supposedly a lot less interesting to read comics about superheroes when you've got the real thing. I don't know exactly how the manga and comics industries are linked irl, but I imagine there's some sort of link between them. So, it's possible that this phenomena had some sort of effect on the Jojo's manga. However, we still see in this fic that there are shows like princess gwenevere based around people with magical powers that were pretty popular. This could suggest that the lowered interest in that sort of media was only temporary reaction to the appearance of capes, which happened to last for long enough to kill off the comics industry.
So basically it's possible and even likely that Jojo's Bizarre Adventure manifested very differently in this timeline, if it ever came to be at all - I don't know exactly what inspired Araki during the 80s, how long he worked on workshopping or finding a publisher before the publishing of Jojo's, or other factors. I think that at the minimum the divergence in the plot would mean that Stands either didn't exist or were more rooted in Hamon or having some-other manifestation. There's also the potential that Araki died, triggered, or et cetera in this timeline. similar to the famed incident where Michael Jordan triggered on the court.
If by killing comic book industry you mean western comics, yeah, considering western comics were heavily saturated with super heroes and the like. Could probably count on one hand the number of comic lines that I am aware of that -weren't- part of the Marvel/DC super verse. Manga however is a bit different. It's always been spread out as far as genre goes, with fantasy, sci-fi etc, so it at the very least, probably survived and even thrived. After all, real life capes don't stop people from geeking out over Gundams, since capes are capes and Gundams are Gundams. Or any sports manga. I'd imagine though there'd probably be a lot less Japanese culturally inspired manga though, given...ahem...kyushu and all. But I'm sure Manga as a medium probably did survive. No telling how it's changed, all and all.
Thank you, but that was not what I was asking, but merely the scene in question. I was asking about the the technorganic upgrade, and if it applied to just his heart or to his whole body.
Edit: For instance, in that same scene/chapter he got upgraded with the chimera biotech from Big O, however it was clear that affected his whole body. That did not seem clear with the Transformers tech.
Could you clarify your question a bit more? As I do not remember him getting any kind of 'transformer tech' in his heart unless your referring to him using cybertonium as part of the materials for his magic-ragnite heart. And if thats the case, no, it didn't apply to his whole body, just his heart. As for Tetra...uh...she kinda...already is sorta techno-organic from the get go? Life Fibers have always been able to seamless assimilate and improve tech into themselves. It's weird alien power dna stuff. Probably because tech is every bit as much of a fashion statement as clothes.
Could you clarify your question a bit more? As I do not remember him getting any kind of 'transformer tech' in his heart unless your referring to him using cybertonium as part of the materials for his magic-ragnite heart. And if thats the case, no, it didn't apply to his whole body, just his heart. As for Tetra...uh...she kinda...already is sorta techno-organic from the get go? Life Fibers have always been able to seamless assimilate and improve tech into themselves. It's weird alien power dna stuff. Probably because tech is every bit as much of a fashion statement as clothes.
One of the clones specifically states "reformatting" when adding the cybertonium, which is what happens when one becomes a technorganic in Transformers: Beast Wars (among other things) but yes, if cybertonium was just added to the heart that answers my question, thank you
I thought Life Fibers could emulate and improve technology but were not themselves technological? Granted, I have never watched Kill-La-Kill, and I suppose the difference is academic.
Inconsistent terminology. Class Crafter was used first and Jumper is never referred to by the characters otherwise, so I would advise sticking with Class Crafter.
The last part sounds a little off. Maybe it should be something like "and her estimated financial situation" or "and the estimated financial situation she was in.
end of corrections.
Now, I should say that Lord has officially added to the 'terrible ideas for Joe' meme with neathbow unicorns.
While we're talking about the robot unicorns,
I think this was explained in chapter that it uses his mane (his hair):
As an update, I'm still committed to getting the next chapter out on time, but it might be a bit lean. My work has been fairly heavy recently, so there's not been as much time to write as I would have liked. I could also comment about the rolls, but the tables down mostly 600 point perks to we're going to be hitting a period of the story where most of the chapters are going to have some major roll in them. It's going to be tricky giving the perks the weight they deserve, getting Joe to implement the new abilities, and moving the plot along before the next serious perk shows up. It's a 'problem' I can see coming, but one that wasn't on my map before hand. I've talked about how this fic was something of a prototype, so this kind of hiccup should be expected.
As for the broader schedule, I really want to get to Somer's Rock within two chapters, so barring a major disruption we should still be on track for that. I'm going to try to get through a few of the older comments I've been meaning to reply to, but I won't have time to clear the thread before the next chapter.
I've commented on this elsewhere, but Joe's abilities are based on the jumpdocs that the perks come from. The version of the Servant supplement I was using specifies E rank at ten times peak human, and defines it as peak human in the modern world, not peak during the Age of Gods or anything like that. It might not match with actual Nausaverse metrics, but it is very clear about the limits of the boosts and provides clear guidelines for them. That's what I'm working from.
Was there ever some description of Dr. Campbell? If no, can this be him?
Also, I'm guessing he'll bring Survey, Fleet, and Tetra to Rock, leaving Matrix for obvious, thinker related reason, Garment to not tie her to him too much, and his clones, in the Workshop.
So, he'll have to build artificial bodies for them, or at least for Survey and Fleet. Tetra can go in her Zootopia Mink form.
The noise generator will be useless once the therapist spends X time away from it, where X is the amount of time its effects extend into the past and future. It'll be trivial for the Simurgh or some power like PtV to read his mind and get everything that Apeiron said.
One of the canon interludes in Worm is from the Simurgh's perspective. We get a sense of how she perceives the world and the amount of focus she needs for any given individual. It's sufficient to say that she won't be getting anything in the time it takes Joe to move back to the Workshop. Dr. Campbell has a Divine Mystic Code that diverts attention, so he's not going to be the Simurgh's focus unless he cancels the effect by somehow attacking her, and the entire workshop crew will be outfitted with anti-divination items by the time they next leave the protection of the SSS curtain. The Simurgh is scary, but she doesn't have access to the memories of the entire planet. That's just not how her power works.
Wow, that description of Joe's Servant class and Noble Phantasm had me shook. Excellent description and really drives home that Servants are legends. The capes of this world claim names like Hero and Legend. Apeiron will remind them what they aspire to be.
Also, this is highly munchkinizable. If/when Joe gets the Magitek Mastery perk he can Infuse himself with magic from the Servant system and enable himself to increase those E ranks all the way up to A++ over time. These are also his *base* abilities now, meaning every other perk that increases these now treats his Servant stats as the floor from which to raise up. Does this mean with his mini Kaiju body increasing his strength by 20x, he is now at least 200x stronger...? Or would it be 30x?
Magitek Mastery specifically states that it physically enhances anyone who is infused by it. The mechanics of that aren't clear, but they're probably tied to the magic system in question. That's a fiat effect, so even if the magic system has no aspect related to physical enhancement the recipient still gets some kind of boost.
Infusing someone with 'Servant' magic would be complicated because of the question of what exactly is the magic system for that kind of effect. You'd probably see the core ability be growth in the mana parameter and casting skills (or other mana using abilities), with the physical enhancement aspect applying to their other parameters. Joe using it on himself would mean he could improve his stats, but he's not really E ranked at the moment, that's just the portion of his abilities that come from his Servant powers.
That makes little sense. A simple Nursery Rhyme became one of the most powerful Heroic Spirits. An amalgamation of All of the World Evils became something more than a mere Spirit.
I think, Legendary Crafter should be among the best. Especially considering how it's an amalgamation of All of the World Craft(er)s.
Any legendary crafter who was famous enough to get their own legend is already in the throne, either as a hero, wraith, or phantom. Joe's Heroic Spirit is the composite of nameless crafters that facilitated other people's legends. People who did normal, mundane work without being acknowledged beyond the fact that the work had to take place for the hero to function. Nursery Rhyme was one of the Servants I researched when I was developing this concept, and is another example of a composite heroic spirit, but one with much more focus and identity than Joe's Crafter. The same is true with All the World's Evils. Both of those are much stronger concepts than, for example, the tale of Wesley the farrier dealing with a load of damp charcoal to get a horse shod on schedule. That horse may have gone on to be ridden by a great hero in a decisive battle, but the craftsman isn't part of the story beyond the fact that 'someone' had to shoe the horse, make the saddle, and do every other mundane but vital task that allowed heroes to be heroes.
That is part of the origin of Joe's Noble Phantasm. Nobody asks where the items that allow a hero to function come from (Particularly if they aren't divine or otherwise mythical), it's just accepted that someone was able to make them. That is the 'legend', so to speak, that empowers his Noble Phantasm and allows him to build what he needs, when he needs it.
For whatever reason, whenever I think about Joe's team and its name, I just keep coming back to calling them The Forge. The place, and in this case the group, from which all great creations come from. Simple and to the point, I feel like it would fit well with the image Joe is trying to build up. Then again, I am a fan of understated team names like this, so definite bias there 😋
On a completely different subject, I went to check out the reference document for the BCF perks, and I noticed what I think is a new tab for the Personal Reality Constellation. Is this new, or has it always been there and I've just been blind? Either way, are these perks that Joe can get? If so, I cannot wait for him to get something like the Key Link system that would allow Joe to close the door to his lab and access it from any door he's used to get to the lab before. I feel like this would cover up one of the larger weaknesses still facing Joe today in the vulnerability of his lab, automated defenses not withstanding.
Finally, on a personal note @LordRoustabout , as someone who has had to go through a fair amount of therapy, especially in regards to my family, I think you knocked this scene out of the park! Really great writing that I felt did a fantastic job of conveying just how hard it can be to stand up to people who have such a negative effect on you, all in the name of the greater good. Coming into this scene, I was unprepared for just how much I was going to connect with what Joe was saying. Just really awesome stuff. Thank you for keeping up with all of this, and I cannot wait to see where you take us next.
I was on the fence about the Personal Reality constellation, but I'm leaning towards including it. I might end up curating the list of options to some extent, but there are two major reasons I'm considering adding it. First off, Joe has reached a power level where the fiat backed abilities of the Personal Reality items aren't significantly more powerful than what he is capable of producing. Adding it at this time won't result in the Warehouse overshadowing the Forge. The second reason is, particularly with how the tables are down to mostly 600 point perks, I really need a point sink. Pacing is bad enough already, and 600 point perks are significant and take a lot of time to properly describe, integrate into Joe's toolset, and apply in the story. With them quickly becoming the most likely roll I'm going to be spending more time explaining powers than covering anything else in the plot. I know people have 600 point perks they've been waiting for, but I need something to stem the tide to a level I can manage. A constellation full of mostly low cost abilities that can be easily noted without derailing the story is a fairly effective solution to that problem. Joe suddenly getting something like Workshop Wi-Fi is something that can be noted and moved on from without needing an extensive period of contemplation, analysis, and rebuilds. We'll still see 600 point perks, but maybe not at the 'every chapter' rate that we seem to be headed for.
I'm really happy to hear that the therapy session was well received. That's the kind of thing that is difficult to write for a number of reasons, and you're never sure how it's going to come across. It means a lot to hear that people are connecting with that kind of thing and that it went over well.
One of the conditions that Joe gave the Undersiders was no resale on the technology he made for them. The idea was they were clients, not brokers for other buyers. Really, Joe wanted to know where his tech ended up and be sure it wasn't going to get passed off to someone who could do something horrible with it (you know, like slap-chopping a Ward on live TV). You could probably argue personal property rights, but the Undersiders did agree to the conditions and probably aren't keen to break them now.
So, is Territory Creation any good? Are skills measured the same way as basic parameters? And does it stack with his existing methods of lowercase territory creation?
They're rated on a scale of E to EX or [STAR] or whatever the biggest/weirdest thing is supposed to be.
E does not represent "10 times the height of the human cap" in this instance, it represents a very specific basic level of ability with the particular skill. There's a wiki somewhere that goes into detail about the canon explanations and descriptions of each skill and each skill rank as has been provided across the Lore and Mechanics, but I don't remember where it is or what it's called so good luck finding it.
In this case, E Rank basically means that Joe is now capable of Territory Creation as his initial floor not accounting for the rest of his abilities. Higher Ranks would mean that his initial floor is more competent or is better able to bend or break the "rules" of the basic idea, but we're not at the point where Joe is boosting his Fate Ranks (yet) so we can set that aside for now.
I combined these two because the answers involved are linked.
Now I'm not really a Nasu Lore Nerd, so you'll need to forgive me for getting things wrong, but as far as I remember it basically works like this.
Magecraft is broadly speaking "Magic as Mortals can do it without exploding/dying/being Heroically Swole". We've seen Joe use it to replicate Tech/Magitech, and we've seen Joe straight up make Magic Items that only work Because Magic.
One of the things that Magecraft can do is create something called a "Bounded Field" which is basically a magical effect anchored to a location rather than an item or cast as a spell. These can basically do all the things Magecraft can normally do, like create a Someone Else's Problem effect, or activate an alarm or trap (like a Fireball), or act as a protective barrier.
Territory Creation, as far as I understand it, is in essence the same concept as a Bounded Field, brought up to MurderDeathKillGrail Round Robin Heroic Spirit tier ability.
Heroic Spirits as a (heavily bent, subverted, and sometimes flatly broken) rule are better than any Mortal Magecraft. E Rank isn't very powerful in Heroic Spirit terms. In Magecraft terms, it should be beyond any Mortal Mage-Wizard person within the Nasuverse.
How exactly that turns out is an experiment for the Reader and for the deciding of our LordR.
Now, what this actually means in terms of utility?
If I'm understanding this correctly, Joe now has another layer of magical interactions that he can apply to any location.
That location is filled to the brim with magi/tech infrastructure and those manic (mantric?) booster fields? Joe can slap a Territory effect on top of it to act as- whatever Joe is able to do with Magecraft? He should be able to fine tune a booster effect relating to whatever purpose he has to that particular area, as seen with his near conceptual Magic Item Creation letting him tap into more esoteric effects, but in the worst case it'll be a layer of defenses that would require exceptionally wide reaching sensors to detect and respond to, I think.
So in the end, how useful Territory Creation is will depend on how creative Joe can be with his Nasuverse sourced magics (until he's able to convert different Magic types more easily?). It can either be another redundancy in defense or it can further increase the efficiency of whatever Joe finds the time to apply it to.
I would personally expect the Duplicates to near immediately use it to create a Zero Gravity Room both as a test and because that sounds like something fun to play around in.
My understanding of the Territory Creation skill is that it's about making a workshop in a reasonable span of time. A Mage's workshop is a place of power for them, but it's also a major undertaking. The work of years at minimum and generations in more than a few cases. A Holy Grail War lasts like two weeks at most. No mage is going to be able to create a proper workshop in that time, which is where the Territory Creation skill comes in.
With that skill, not only can you create powerful workshops, you can establish them in timeframes that are absolutely ridiculous by the standards of modern magecraft. Medea had Territory Creation at A rank and it not only let her establish her workshop in a matter of days, but it reached the ridiculous 'temple' threshold, giving her the ability to bank a immense reserve of mana and essentially cheat on the rules of magecraft.
Joe, in contrast, has Territory Creation at E rank. At that skill level he's barely going to be establishing anything. Part of that is how his skills were built. He's designed to be able to craft in the field, so a base of operations isn't as necessary as it is for some Servants. He can still make a workshop, it's just going to take a significant amount of time and be much weaker than what other servants can accomplish. Of course, that 'significant time' and 'weaker workshop' is in comparison to Caster servants, not normal mages. By magus standards he'd be throwing up a very powerful workshop in an insanely short period of time. The workshop would improve the strength of his spells, make rituals easier, allow him to store mana to some degree, and make his abilities more efficient. It will take a while to convert the volcano into a mage's workshop, but Joe has his duplicates able to work non-stop and burn mana to accomplish it, so he'll get it set up eventually.
Matrix, as of the moment, doesn't have a gender. However, as to your main point, the Duplicates were working on the creation of more Teir 1 gen3 nanites, which are a lot more powerful than gen1 & gen2 Teir 1s, thanks to incorporating ADVENT tech and Lathe Metal. But yeah, Mythic Forge makes creation time insane, due to the fact that time isn't even happening anymore.
The Matrix is a colony intelligence, growing out of a nanobot hive mind. As such, they've continued to think of themselves in the plural and use terms appropriate for such. Additionally, unlike Fleet and Survey they had no interest in interactions with people outside the workshop, so basically passed over a lot of the humanizing touches that Survey recommended to make dealing with humans easier.
People have commented that Joe's AIs have taken after parts of his personality. That wasn't something I consciously worked to create, it just kind of grew out or their interactions. If you want to think of it that way, the Matrix would be closest to Joe's 'stay in the workshop and make sure everything is perfect' outlook. How healthy that is for a person is debatable, but it's not necessarily a bad mindset for a crafting focused AI.
Joe's Whispered focus will be on the Lambda Driver, though the perk provides a boost to all his technical skills. The Lambda Driver stacks insanely well with spiral energy and a number of Joe's other abilities. Additionally, getting that perk will let Joe psychically link to other Whispered, or which there are... none. Well, none right up until the moment Joe drinks a duplication potion. Normally the link is a bit difficult to establish, but if Joe also ends up with Synchronicity Event he'll be able to maintain mental contact with his duplicates and possible even transfer memories or experience with them.
@LordRoustabout You are always answering questions about how durable Joe is, how he would survive various attacks or methods of attack, how good his healing is, and all that, but I want to know something: Can Joe come back from the dead (without using a Fiat Backed One-Up)? If so, what types of death could he come back from? Would he need to set up a device to catch his Soul so he could be rezzed? Would his body need to be relatively intact/accessible or could he come back even if it was completely disintegrated?
Since Joe's powers are still based on Jumpchain rules a death without a fiat backed One-Up counts as chain failure. I haven't decided exactly what that would look like, but the minimum would be no additional powers from the Forge and probably losing his connection to the empathic link with his passenger. Joe could still manage resurrections, either through cloning, mind upload, or soul transfer, but if he hits a state of confirmed death then that's it. Now, if he takes some drastic action before he's killed, like moving his soul into another body or using Lord of Light reincarnation tech before a killing blow, then that wouldn't count. There would still probably be some consequences tied to changing his body, but it's wouldn't register as a chain-failure death.
Hey, @LordRoustabout, if you had to put a number to the amount of Debt the Undersiders owe Joe due to the whole healing thing, what would you estimate it to be? And I'm not looking for an answer along the lines of "numbers of meaningless for this debt, it's all about the control and ability to make them tell him what jobs they are doing, etc., etc." I'm just asking because I'm curious, it doesn't need to be an exact number, just an estimate like "a million", "ten million", etc. Just for fun, you know? Not a serious, indepth answer.
The medical debt would be in the tens of millions, minimum. This is entirely thanks to Brian and Lisa's condition. There was no way to cure that without developing experimental treatments that would be ungodly expensive. Alec is after them, thanks to having a limb rebuilt, then you have Taylor's brain issue. Bitch got off easy with a bill that was probably under five figures, depending on hospital markups in the US healthcare system. It was the reversal of Bakuda's exotic bomb effects that took the debt from 'significant commitment' to 'unescapable obligation'. That said, nobody is complaining about Joe saving them from that particular fate.
Joe is the youngest child with Natalia one year older and Alena two years his senior. The tight clustering of their ages was a contributing factor to some conflicts between them when they were growing up. If Joe had stayed on track with his college program he would have graduated this year. The fact that Natalia is currently finishing the fifth year of her four year degree is another source of tension in the family, and part of the reason she's so keen to divert attention to Joe whenever possible. If her exams don't go well she will be more than happy to blame everything on Joe, with the recent family conflict providing the perfect justification for that.
That's about all I have time for at the moment. I'll try to get to some more comments after things calm down a bit.
The description of Joe with Whispered and Synchronicity Event reminds me a lot of Zorian and his Simulacra towards the end of Mother of Learning. Which is pretty cool, I think.
On a slightly related note, can someone describe what Whispered is/does and where it comes from?
The second reason is, particularly with how the tables are down to mostly 600 point perks, I really need a point sink. Pacing is bad enough already, and 600 point perks are significant and take a lot of time to properly describe, integrate into Joe's toolset, and apply in the story. With them quickly becoming the most likely roll I'm going to be spending more time explaining powers than covering anything else in the plot. I know people have 600 point perks they've been waiting for, but I need something to stem the tide to a level I can manage. A constellation full of mostly low cost abilities that can be easily noted without derailing the story is a fairly effective solution to that problem. Joe suddenly getting something like Workshop Wi-Fi is something that can be noted and moved on from without needing an extensive period of contemplation, analysis, and rebuilds. We'll still see 600 point perks, but maybe not at the 'every chapter' rate that we seem to be headed for.
There is also the stuff from Body Mod like ever cleanse and metavore. The whole list of non stat boosting effects are relatively minor, and most are primarily quality of life insurance via fiat backing.
I would think that in an actual grail war the crafter MO would be "make something that boosts my territory creation to at least A rank, and then use territory creation." It sounds very much like an FGO "skill which gives a ton of other skills" fashion.
I am a bit sad about the inclusion of other trees just to slow down major perks, but it does explain the ton of PJO low rollers granted. It just takes away from the things Joe should be able to make a credible go at via crafting. I find it much more interesting for joe trying to use his tech trees to buff him as opposed to "perk rolled, buff gained."
As an update, I'm still committed to getting the next chapter out on time, but it might be a bit lean. My work has been fairly heavy recently, so there's not been as much time to write as I would have liked. I could also comment about the rolls, but the tables down mostly 600 point perks to we're going to be hitting a period of the story where most of the chapters are going to have some major roll in them. It's going to be tricky giving the perks the weight they deserve, getting Joe to implement the new abilities, and moving the plot along before the next serious perk shows up. It's a 'problem' I can see coming, but one that wasn't on my map before hand. I've talked about how this fic was something of a prototype, so this kind of hiccup should be expected.
...
I was on the fence about the Personal Reality constellation, but I'm leaning towards including it. I might end up curating the list of options to some extent, but there are two major reasons I'm considering adding it. First off, Joe has reached a power level where the fiat backed abilities of the Personal Reality items aren't significantly more powerful than what he is capable of producing. Adding it at this time won't result in the Warehouse overshadowing the Forge. The second reason is, particularly with how the tables are down to mostly 600 point perks, I really need a point sink. Pacing is bad enough already, and 600 point perks are significant and take a lot of time to properly describe, integrate into Joe's toolset, and apply in the story. With them quickly becoming the most likely roll I'm going to be spending more time explaining powers than covering anything else in the plot. I know people have 600 point perks they've been waiting for, but I need something to stem the tide to a level I can manage. A constellation full of mostly low cost abilities that can be easily noted without derailing the story is a fairly effective solution to that problem. Joe suddenly getting something like Workshop Wi-Fi is something that can be noted and moved on from without needing an extensive period of contemplation, analysis, and rebuilds. We'll still see 600 point perks, but maybe not at the 'every chapter' rate that we seem to be headed for.
I was reading through some of your older comments recently (to sate my appetite for more BCF) and I think you said that if someone made Celestial Forge 2.0, including all the newer jumpdocs since it was made, you would consider switching over? If so, maybe it would help with this issue, and you could also have some input over things like the ratio of more expensive to less expensive perks.
This revised version is a lot better than normal v2 and v3 (both are way too overpowered in a story breaking way) but I prefer Celestial Forge v1 Edited for its simplicity, though if I were to write something with it (long odds) I would take inspiration from here and drop a few things and change a couple of others (the changes would be ME: Andromeda Omni-tool perks for Class: Engineer Specialty: Mechanics from the Mass Effect Jump and Item Construction EX from Fate/Extra to Item Construction A+++ and Class Jumper from Fate Servant Supplement (Old), mostly).
Edit: Also add Talisman Trained (Inukami) and DS9 Star Trek Skills. Edit2: Fate Finds You Interesting (Percy Jackson)
I think the world bet's people would be beyond horrified that, even with so many speed construct powers, Apeiron is still going up his tech tree.
Which is yeah pretty impressive considering what he already has.
Shifting topic. I glad his masterpiece works seeing to follow the ideas behind the design. Otherwise moving inside his lab would be a info hazard. And with that so beautiful that one literally can't their eyes off of some part of the lab. Because I sure some of the clones did go all out in the construction of some piece of art there. And the lab have a effect that make said art even better. So once more I glad that there no info hazard.
I was reading through some of your older comments recently (to sate my appetite for more BCF) and I think you said that if someone made Celestial Forge 2.0, including all the newer jumpdocs since it was made, you would consider switching over? If so, maybe it would help with this issue, and you could also have some input over things like the ratio of more expensive to less expensive perks.
This revised version is a lot better than normal v2 and v3 (both are way too overpowered in a story breaking way) but I prefer Celestial Forge v1 Edited for its simplicity, though if I were to write something with it (long odds) I would take inspiration from here and drop a few things and change a couple of others (the changes would be ME: Andromeda Omni-tool perks for Class: Engineer Specialty: Mechanics from the Mass Effect Jump and Item Construction EX from Fate/Extra to Item Construction A+++ and Class Jumper from Fate Servant Supplement (Old), mostly).
Edit: Also add Talisman Trained (Inukami) and DS9 Star Trek Skills. Edit2: Fate Finds You Interesting (Percy Jackson)
The description of Joe with Whispered and Synchronicity Event reminds me a lot of Zorian and his Simulacra towards the end of Mother of Learning. Which is pretty cool, I think.
On a slightly related note, can someone describe what Whispered is/does and where it comes from?
Whispered is from Full Metal Panic a cold war-ish setting where the Whispered are sometimes unknowingly strategic assets with the possibility of upsetting the balance of power in the world at large. Perk text is below:
Due to a Soviet experiment a while ago, you're one of the exceptionally rare people known as the Whispered. they have an incredibly advanced knowledge of math, science, engineering, etc though each Whispered only specializes in a single area. If they take the time to learn or supplement this with other technical skills, it's possible to potentially create Black Technology of their own.
Lord specifically referenced:
The Lambda Driver is a piece of Black Technology capable of turning willpower into physical force.
That link goes to an article with other examples of Black Technology.
I was reading through some of your older comments recently (to sate my appetite for more BCF) and I think you said that if someone made Celestial Forge 2.0, including all the newer jumpdocs since it was made, you would consider switching over? If so, maybe it would help with this issue, and you could also have some input over things like the ratio of more expensive to less expensive perks.
The second reason is, particularly with how the tables are down to mostly 600 point perks, I really need a point sink. Pacing is bad enough already, and 600 point perks are significant and take a lot of time to properly describe, integrate into Joe's toolset, and apply in the story. With them quickly becoming the most likely roll I'm going to be spending more time explaining powers than covering anything else in the plot. I know people have 600 point perks they've been waiting for, but I need something to stem the tide to a level I can manage. A constellation full of mostly low cost abilities that can be easily noted without derailing the story is a fairly effective solution to that problem.
Honestly, I sorta feel like the rate of point acquisition should have had a mild exponent applied to it so that each instance of points gained required incrementally more points to acquire.
Something along the lines of 1000^(x/y) for a multiplier, where x is the number of times you've received points and y is the limiter. With y as 1024 it'd double the amount of words required roughly every hundred point drops, while 512 would need ~4x as many by that point. It'd naturally slow down the rate at which things are acquired over time without excessively slowing the early gains, and as such it'd leave more space for things to actually happen in between instances of 'now everything I built is outdated'
Edit - Now that I'm actually properly awake, a simpler formula would just be to use '1000 x (1 + 0.02)^x', which would result in an 8x increase in the amount needed to gain a set of points by the time you'd earned 100 sets. Shifting the growth modifier down to 0.01 means you'd only reach that value by about 210 sets in, but honestly, you'd need to consider the total cost of everything in the forge, whether or not you want to get everything, and also how much you actually want to write in order to decide what factor you'd need.
Honestly, I sorta feel like the rate of point acquisition should have had a mild exponent applied to it so that each instance of points gained required incrementally more points to acquire.
I like the way The Light of The Forge did it on SB. There was still 100 points accumulated every 2000 words, but the rolls weren't automatic. Instead, the MC would roll the Forge like once a non-interlude chapter, sometimes (though rarely) skipping a chapter if he is really busy as it is disorienting.
Sometimes that meant the author gave the MC multiple things, but it kept things controlled and the powers gained sparse per chapter (and thus the exposition about the powers) and more focused on using the powers.
I did have a thought to doing it where the roll is done before the points are earned, and the character is aware of what selection will unlock next.
That way, while they can pontificate as to what it will allow them to do, it won't interrupt the flow of things when it's locked in, since engaging moments will take priority over something you might get soon, and when something's unlocked it will have already been anticipated.
As an update, I'm still committed to getting the next chapter out on time, but it might be a bit lean. My work has been fairly heavy recently, so there's not been as much time to write as I would have liked. I could also comment about the rolls, but the tables down mostly 600 point perks to we're going to be hitting a period of the story where most of the chapters are going to have some major roll in them. It's going to be tricky giving the perks the weight they deserve, getting Joe to implement the new abilities, and moving the plot along before the next serious perk shows up. It's a 'problem' I can see coming, but one that wasn't on my map before hand. I've talked about how this fic was something of a prototype, so this kind of hiccup should be expected.
*Le-gasp* Oh know, the horror! A chapter that isn't a half-dozen times longer than the average chapter of the other stories I read? Truly this is a travesty!
In all seriousness, I do believe I know where you got the idea for Joe's "everything I create must be as good as I can make it or I feel bad about making it even if the 'not good enough' version is literately better than anything else like it in the world" flaw from.
As for the broader schedule, I really want to get to Somer's Rock within two chapters, so barring a major disruption we should still be on track for that. I'm going to try to get through a few of the older comments I've been meaning to reply to, but I won't have time to clear the thread before the next chapter.
You'll get around to it eventually, that's good enough for me! (Seriously, some authors almost never answer questions, so seeing an author actually sit down to address all those questions like you really makes me happy!)
I've commented on this elsewhere, but Joe's abilities are based on the jumpdocs that the perks come from. The version of the Servant supplement I was using specifies E rank at ten times peak human, and defines it as peak human in the modern world, not peak during the Age of Gods or anything like that. It might not match with actual Nausaverse metrics, but it is very clear about the limits of the boosts and provides clear guidelines for them. That's what I'm working from.
Yeah, the Jumpdocs sometimes conform to the fanon interpretation of events rather than the canon interpretation. There are even some Jumpchain stories that go in-depth about the differences when characters compare the abilities the MC has because of Perks to the abilities people have because they are natives of those Jumps, and how the subtle differences affect them on a small and large scale.
Great picture for Fleet. Definitely a look that would appeal to him. For Dr. Campbell, he was described in the first therapy chapter as:
So, is that going to change how you'll make Fleet look? Also, are Fleet and Survey going to pretend to be Parahumans, or are they intending to make it obvious they're A.I.?
One of the canon interludes in Worm is from the Simurgh's perspective. We get a sense of how she perceives the world and the amount of focus she needs for any given individual. It's sufficient to say that she won't be getting anything in the time it takes Joe to move back to the Workshop. Dr. Campbell has a Divine Mystic Code that diverts attention, so he's not going to be the Simurgh's focus unless he cancels the effect by somehow attacking her, and the entire workshop crew will be outfitted with anti-divination items by the time they next leave the protection of the SSS curtain. The Simurgh is scary, but she doesn't have access to the memories of the entire planet. That's just not how her power works.
Well then, looks like she's effed. Also, I have really got to get around to reading that chapter of Worm, would really help me understand how she thinks.
Magitek Mastery specifically states that it physically enhances anyone who is infused by it. The mechanics of that aren't clear, but they're probably tied to the magic system in question. That's a fiat effect, so even if the magic system has no aspect related to physical enhancement the recipient still gets some kind of boost.
That will be helpful if Joe ever wants to enhance Aisha, or anyone else really. I can see him employing that a lot in the Epilogue.
Infusing someone with 'Servant' magic would be complicated because of the question of what exactly is the magic system for that kind of effect. You'd probably see the core ability be growth in the mana parameter and casting skills (or other mana using abilities), with the physical enhancement aspect applying to their other parameters. Joe using it on himself would mean he could improve his stats, but he's not really E ranked at the moment, that's just the portion of his abilities that come from his Servant powers.
Joe may not really be E ranked anymore, but raising his parameters would still increase his base stats before all the other boosts he has. Agility would help a lot since it explicitly increases his reaction time and processing speed.
Also, I can't wait to see Aisha reaction when she realizes that Joe can potentially make her a Pseudo-Servant
Any legendary crafter who was famous enough to get their own legend is already in the throne, either as a hero, wraith, or phantom. Joe's Heroic Spirit is the composite of nameless crafters that facilitated other people's legends. People who did normal, mundane work without being acknowledged beyond the fact that the work had to take place for the hero to function. Nursery Rhyme was one of the Servants I researched when I was developing this concept, and is another example of a composite heroic spirit, but one with much more focus and identity than Joe's Crafter. The same is true with All the World's Evils. Both of those are much stronger concepts than, for example, the tale of Wesley the farrier dealing with a load of damp charcoal to get a horse shod on schedule. That horse may have gone on to be ridden by a great hero in a decisive battle, but the craftsman isn't part of the story beyond the fact that 'someone' had to shoe the horse, make the saddle, and do every other mundane but vital task that allowed heroes to be heroes.
That is part of the origin of Joe's Noble Phantasm. Nobody asks where the items that allow a hero to function come from (Particularly if they aren't divine or otherwise mythical), it's just accepted that someone was able to make them. That is the 'legend', so to speak, that empowers his Noble Phantasm and allows him to build what he needs, when he needs it.
Yeah, I can see a Pre-Forge Joe becoming that sort of person. I mean, now he would definitely be one of those Legendary Craftsman who get their own legend, but before he would have been that guy who gave the Hero the tools he needs but is never personally mentioned in the Legend, he's just sort of implied to be there as the Hero would have needed to get those tools from somewhere.
I was on the fence about the Personal Reality constellation, but I'm leaning towards including it. I might end up curating the list of options to some extent, but there are two major reasons I'm considering adding it. First off, Joe has reached a power level where the fiat backed abilities of the Personal Reality items aren't significantly more powerful than what he is capable of producing. Adding it at this time won't result in the Warehouse overshadowing the Forge. The second reason is, particularly with how the tables are down to mostly 600 point perks, I really need a point sink. Pacing is bad enough already, and 600 point perks are significant and take a lot of time to properly describe, integrate into Joe's toolset, and apply in the story. With them quickly becoming the most likely roll I'm going to be spending more time explaining powers than covering anything else in the plot. I know people have 600 point perks they've been waiting for, but I need something to stem the tide to a level I can manage. A constellation full of mostly low cost abilities that can be easily noted without derailing the story is a fairly effective solution to that problem. Joe suddenly getting something like Workshop Wi-Fi is something that can be noted and moved on from without needing an extensive period of contemplation, analysis, and rebuilds. We'll still see 600 point perks, but maybe not at the 'every chapter' rate that we seem to be headed for.
That would certainly be helpful. You've had to delay a chapter at least 3 times because Joe rolled a major perk at the end and you didn't want to end the chapter before giving it the attention it deserves. Getting a whole bunch more low cost perks for Joe to get should slow that down.
I'm really happy to hear that the therapy session was well received. That's the kind of thing that is difficult to write for a number of reasons, and you're never sure how it's going to come across. It means a lot to hear that people are connecting with that kind of thing and that it went over well.
Yeah, the way you write really shows how important having a good therapist can be, and how much they can help someone get through tough situations.
(Note to self: If I ever get superpowers, make sure to get therapy)
One of the conditions that Joe gave the Undersiders was no resale on the technology he made for them. The idea was they were clients, not brokers for other buyers. Really, Joe wanted to know where his tech ended up and be sure it wasn't going to get passed off to someone who could do something horrible with it (you know, like slap-chopping a Ward on live TV). You could probably argue personal property rights, but the Undersiders did agree to the conditions and probably aren't keen to break them now.
That, and they'd be stupid to break the agreement they made with the Beyond S-Class Tinker/Trump they are millions of dollars indebted to.
My understanding of the Territory Creation skill is that it's about making a workshop in a reasonable span of time. A Mage's workshop is a place of power for them, but it's also a major undertaking. The work of years at minimum and generations in more than a few cases. A Holy Grail War lasts like two weeks at most. No mage is going to be able to create a proper workshop in that time, which is where the Territory Creation skill comes in.
With that skill, not only can you create powerful workshops, you can establish them in timeframes that are absolutely ridiculous by the standards of modern magecraft. Medea had Territory Creation at A rank and it not only let her establish her workshop in a matter of days, but it reached the ridiculous 'temple' threshold, giving her the ability to bank a immense reserve of mana and essentially cheat on the rules of magecraft.
Joe, in contrast, has Territory Creation at E rank. At that skill level he's barely going to be establishing anything. Part of that is how his skills were built. He's designed to be able to craft in the field, so a base of operations isn't as necessary as it is for some Servants. He can still make a workshop, it's just going to take a significant amount of time and be much weaker than what other servants can accomplish. Of course, that 'significant time' and 'weaker workshop' is in comparison to Caster servants, not normal mages. By magus standards he'd be throwing up a very powerful workshop in an insanely short period of time. The workshop would improve the strength of his spells, make rituals easier, allow him to store mana to some degree, and make his abilities more efficient. It will take a while to convert the volcano into a mage's workshop, but Joe has his duplicates able to work non-stop and burn mana to accomplish it, so he'll get it set up eventually.
Yeah, that makes sense. Though Joe's speed and quality boosting powers should help, I can see Do One Thing at a Time really being useful for making the Territory more powerful than it would be.
The Matrix is a colony intelligence, growing out of a nanobot hive mind. As such, they've continued to think of themselves in the plural and use terms appropriate for such. Additionally, unlike Fleet and Survey they had no interest in interactions with people outside the workshop, so basically passed over a lot of the humanizing touches that Survey recommended to make dealing with humans easier.
I can just imagine the Villains reaction when Matrix speaks at Somer's Rock and constantly use 'we' and 'us' and the Villains realize that Matrix isn't referring to the Workshop Crew, but just themself.
People have commented that Joe's AIs have taken after parts of his personality. That wasn't something I consciously worked to create, it just kind of grew out or their interactions. If you want to think of it that way, the Matrix would be closest to Joe's 'stay in the workshop and make sure everything is perfect' outlook. How healthy that is for a person is debatable, but it's not necessarily a bad mindset for a crafting focused AI.
Yeah, 'Shut-in Workaholic' may not be healthy for a human, but it's almost expected for an A.I. that was designed to build stuff. Also, what aspects of Joe does Fleet and Survey represent?
Joe's Whispered focus will be on the Lambda Driver, though the perk provides a boost to all his technical skills. The Lambda Driver stacks insanely well with spiral energy and a number of Joe's other abilities. Additionally, getting that perk will let Joe psychically link to other Whispered, or which there are... none. Well, none right up until the moment Joe drinks a duplication potion. Normally the link is a bit difficult to establish, but if Joe also ends up with Synchronicity Event he'll be able to maintain mental contact with his duplicates and possible even transfer memories or experience with them.
So, that's how the DupliJoes will get continuity of consciousness then.
Since Joe's powers are still based on Jumpchain rules a death without a fiat backed One-Up counts as chain failure. I haven't decided exactly what that would look like, but the minimum would be no additional powers from the Forge and probably losing his connection to the empathic link with his passenger. Joe could still manage resurrections, either through cloning, mind upload, or soul transfer, but if he hits a state of confirmed death then that's it. Now, if he takes some drastic action before he's killed, like moving his soul into another body or using Lord of Light reincarnation tech before a killing blow, then that wouldn't count. There would still probably be some consequences tied to changing his body, but it's wouldn't register as a chain-failure death.
Someone should really make an Omake on Joe's reaction to his death and disconnection from the Forge.
The medical debt would be in the tens of millions, minimum. This is entirely thanks to Brian and Lisa's condition. There was no way to cure that without developing experimental treatments that would be ungodly expensive. Alec is after them, thanks to having a limb rebuilt, then you have Taylor's brain issue. Bitch got off easy with a bill that was probably under five figures, depending on hospital markups in the US healthcare system. It was the reversal of Bakuda's exotic bomb effects that took the debt from 'significant commitment' to 'unescapable obligation'. That said, nobody is complaining about Joe saving them from that particular fate.
Yeesh, no wonder they wouldn't be able to cover even the smallest amount of interest. I wonder how the other Villains would react if they realized just how much the Undersiders owe Apeiron?
Joe is the youngest child with Natalia one year older and Alena two years his senior. The tight clustering of their ages was a contributing factor to some conflicts between them when they were growing up. If Joe had stayed on track with his college program he would have graduated this year. The fact that Natalia is currently finishing the fifth year of her four year degree is another source of tension in the family, and part of the reason she's so keen to divert attention to Joe whenever possible. If her exams don't go well she will be more than happy to blame everything on Joe, with the recent family conflict providing the perfect justification for that.
Man, his family situation just gets worse the more I hear about it. I can't wait for him to overcome his Extreme Doormat flaw and then realize that even the Forge agrees with him when it gives him Mental Fortress as a reward. (Please don't make him a Reaper).
That's about all I have time for at the moment. I'll try to get to some more comments after things calm down a bit.
My understanding of the Territory Creation skill is that it's about making a workshop in a reasonable span of time. A Mage's workshop is a place of power for them, but it's also a major undertaking. The work of years at minimum and generations in more than a few cases. A Holy Grail War lasts like two weeks at most. No mage is going to be able to create a proper workshop in that time, which is where the Territory Creation skill comes in.
With that skill, not only can you create powerful workshops, you can establish them in timeframes that are absolutely ridiculous by the standards of modern magecraft. Medea had Territory Creation at A rank and it not only let her establish her workshop in a matter of days, but it reached the ridiculous 'temple' threshold, giving her the ability to bank a immense reserve of mana and essentially cheat on the rules of magecraft.
Joe, in contrast, has Territory Creation at E rank. At that skill level he's barely going to be establishing anything. Part of that is how his skills were built. He's designed to be able to craft in the field, so a base of operations isn't as necessary as it is for some Servants. He can still make a workshop, it's just going to take a significant amount of time and be much weaker than what other servants can accomplish. Of course, that 'significant time' and 'weaker workshop' is in comparison to Caster servants, not normal mages. By magus standards he'd be throwing up a very powerful workshop in an insanely short period of time. The workshop would improve the strength of his spells, make rituals easier, allow him to store mana to some degree, and make his abilities more efficient. It will take a while to convert the volcano into a mage's workshop, but Joe has his duplicates able to work non-stop and burn mana to accomplish it, so he'll get it set up eventually.
I feel like this kind of needs to be noted Lord isn't wrong about this, there is a pretty noticeable case related to Senji Muramasa, where despite being of the saber class he got territory creation A here is the description for that.
Territory Creation: A
Senji Muramasa's own workshop acts with a smithy as its base.
Obviously it's completely different from that of a mage, but apparently the class skill of Casters was given as an interpretation at the moment of manifesting as a Servant.
As the most excellent of craftsmen, he has an exceptional Territory Creation ability.
