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Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

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@LordRoustabout

This is a serious Question:
How susceptible is Joe to forceful Disrobement?
It wasn't made exactly clear how durable the pseudo new Joe Body is, but I suspect that high level Brutes like Alexandria and other Effects (Legend) like Heat, Acid or any of the other myriad effects Apeiron, the Enigmatic Artificer, is normally near invulnerable to would now pose a significant threat. Aisha's Suit was able to deploy itself by it's own and otherwise shows a deployment effect that is quite reminiscent of teleportation, but it also was named which as far I know Joe's normal Armor is not. Does his normal Equipment remain usable through Survey, Fleet and/or his Technokinesis or could an Enemy potentially grab it and run off with Joe's divine magic Sword/Pistol.
So yeah will we able to see a fight where "grab his clothes" (or at least anything below the Mask) is used as an actual strategy?
 
GunnarS14 said:
I agree that I wouldn't add them to Joe Prime's memories, but I could see the copies storing their memories right before popping, then the next batch downloading those memories to become almost like a continuation of the previous copies but with Joe Prime's memories from that time period added on top.
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This seems out-of-character for the duplicates, honestly - they seem to derive a sense of peace from their very temporary nature. Joe has a little bit of an attitude of "things that are temporary don't have to be perfect", as we saw when he was practicing with Gradation Air, and the duplicates seemingly apply that attitude to their own existence - they don't have to face the pressure of being perfect, working through their issues, etc. because they won't exist tomorrow. So to compromise that by creating a stream of consciousness like that? Suddenly they Would be around tommorrow, in a way, and thusly become burdened by all of the stresses and fears and pressure that Joe Prime feels.
 
All this talk about Jozef's duplicates has made me wish for a Duplicate interlude--it could start right at his creation and would end right at his termination. We could see the gaining of perks and whatever else happened thru his lens rather than Jozef's. It would be an interesting but subtle change that I think would be enjoyable to read.
 
Daym said:
@LordRoustabout

This is a serious Question:
How susceptible is Joe to forceful Disrobement?
It wasn't made exactly clear how durable the pseudo new Joe Body is, but I suspect that high level Brutes like Alexandria and other Effects (Legend) like Heat, Acid or any of the other myriad effects Apeiron, the Enigmatic Artificer, is normally near invulnerable to would now pose a significant threat. Aisha's Suit was able to deploy itself by it's own and otherwise shows a deployment effect that is quite reminiscent of teleportation, but it also was named which as far I know Joe's normal Armor is not. Does his normal Equipment remain usable through Survey, Fleet and/or his Technokinesis or could an Enemy potentially grab it and run off with Joe's divine magic Sword/Pistol.
So yeah will we able to see a fight where "grab his clothes" (or at least anything below the Mask) is used as an actual strategy?
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I don't get it. Joe's various invulnerabilities are near entirely sourced from his clothing. Anything that could rip them off easily probably wouldn't stop there and would just rip Joe in half.
 
AntaeusTheGiant said:
All this talk about Jozef's duplicates has made me wish for a Duplicate interlude--it could start right at his creation and would end right at his termination. We could see the gaining of perks and whatever else happened thru his lens rather than Jozef's. It would be an interesting but subtle change that I think would be enjoyable to read.
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I want this now, too. I want this more than the long-awaited Chubster interlude.
TitanFrost said:
I don't get it. Joe's various invulnerabilities are near entirely sourced from his clothing. Anything that could rip them off easily probably wouldn't stop there and would just rip Joe in half.
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Maybe if the power was something focused on forced-disrobing. I could see someone trying to master Apeiron into ditching his equipment? but I wouldn't know about the efficacy of that as an actual strategy against Apeiron.
 
MagicalAmbitions said:
Maybe if the power was something focused on forced-disrobing. I could see someone trying to master Apeiron into ditching his equipment? but I wouldn't know about the efficacy of that as an actual strategy against Apeiron.
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Well, with XCom Psionics and Peak Advent Tech now a thing under his belt, Joe has effectively become impossible to master. Add onto that the already large amount of difficulty that mastering him would have taken before that and I doubt a master short of Ziz could hope do it.
 
MagicalAmbitions said:
This seems out-of-character for the duplicates, honestly - they seem to derive a sense of peace from their very temporary nature. Joe has a little bit of an attitude of "things that are temporary don't have to be perfect", as we saw when he was practicing with Gradation Air, and the duplicates seemingly apply that attitude to their own existence - they don't have to face the pressure of being perfect, working through their issues, etc. because they won't exist tomorrow. So to compromise that by creating a stream of consciousness like that? Suddenly they Would be around tommorrow, in a way, and thusly become burdened by all of the stresses and fears and pressure that Joe Prime feels.
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I guess I should have specified, this was also so they can literally just pick up where the previous set of duplicates stopped without having to review notes or logs or anything. It might be faster, or it might be a net slowdown, idk, it was just an idea if that was ever an issue.

Thankfully, since Joe, duplicate or not, is really good at writing notes/keeping track if large amounts of information, this was never a problem.
 
@LordRoustabout in regards to Coil's power.

I think it's simply simulation with some subtle shard-influence.

Basically Coil's Shard, knows in advance path he's gonna take/prefer via precog so nudges Coil into that path to maintain the illusion of choice.

All that split timelines? All in Coil's head as a hypothetical "what if I went to the right instead of left" while physically going left that just proves data which he'll never choose because his choice has been made in advance.
 
It always seemed to me that it was easier to just have Coil live in one timeline and then have his shard feed him an "potential" timeline that he was never gonna choose.

People confabulate things all the time, I remember of some story of people with brain injuries believing they had control over things they couldn't reasonably control, like clouds and shit. Coil literally has a node in his head connected to a supercomputer that could easily feed him the illusion of choice between one sim and another (when there's really no choice).

As for him having no blindspots: we've talked about it this before but shards are generally limited for the end-user, they seem highly accurate when limits are removed. If Coil's shard, due to Cauldron shenanigans, doesn't have the same limits it's understandable how he doesn't crash.
 
TitanFrost said:
I think you'd have to damage it to do that though. I doubt Joe's armor just slips on or off easily. It's probably all locked into place or something like that.
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Yes, of course it can lock into place, but if it can lock into place then I think there's a decent chance that precise telekinesis could undo those locks, since they are almost certainly going to be much weaker than the actual material of the armour. Although if Joe has added cybertonium to his armour then maybe it can actually lock seamlessly. Or, come to think of it, maybe his modularity power works with his armour.
 
Squamous Deity said:
Yes, of course it can lock into place, but if it can lock into place then I think there's a decent chance that precise telekinesis could undo those locks, since they are almost certainly going to be much weaker than the actual material of the armour. Although if Joe has added cybertonium to his armour then maybe it can actually lock seamlessly. Or, come to think of it, maybe his modularity power works with his armour.
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Don't forget the potential of magic here. It could be enchanted hold itself to his body as a protective measure or other such mystic whatnot, and telekinesis can't exactly screw with non-physical forces.
dhruvsl said:
Can trickster swap a person with a dummy but leave their costume behind? I don't remember whether this is canon or fanon. If he can would it work on Joe?
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I have no idea, but if Joe has any anti-magic protections it probably won't work regardless. Can't remember if he does or doesn't though…
 
Daym said:
So yeah will we able to see a fight where "grab his clothes" (or at least anything below the Mask) is used as an actual strategy?
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As other people pointed, just rip it off seems... Let's say "unlikely".
And since I doubt Apeiron, the Enigmatic Artificer, uses velcro, zippers, ties or buttons for his armor or cape costume, I doubt anyone can undo his armor/clothes. At least not quick enough. Though, for Ziz it, probably, possible, with range and strenght of her telekinesis. Especially before Joe get the OCP perk, because she'll be able to predict how she can unlock it, instead of "try and find out" method she'll be forced to rely on after.

MagicalAmbitions said:
Joe has a little bit of an attitude of "things that are temporary don't have to be perfect", as we saw when he was practicing with Gradation Air, and the duplicates seemingly apply that attitude to their own existence
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As I've read it - Joe learned that concept from duplicates. Or, more likely, re-discovered, because he was taught that everything he does must be perfect. And since it's not (because "perfect" unreachable by anyone but Apeiron, the Enigmatic Artificer, and even for him that's only reachable from the outside point of view) - he's a failure. :(
 
Koraan said:
And since I doubt Apeiron, the Enigmatic Artificer, uses velcro, zippers, ties or buttons for his armor or cape costume, I doubt anyone can undo his armor/clothes. At least not quick enough. Though, for Ziz it, probably, possible, with range and strenght of her telekinesis. Especially before Joe get the OCP perk, because she'll be able to predict how she can unlock it, instead of "try and find out" method she'll be forced to rely on after.
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Considering the Simurgh actually has no direct senses outside of precog and postcog, if Joe has OCP, she can't detect him at all, straight up.

The best thing she could do then is to basically look at the aftereffects of Joe's presence (like through the eyes of other people and airflow) but that just means that Joe can use stealth tech to get past the rest.
 
readerdreamer said:
Considering the Simurgh actually has no direct senses outside of precog and postcog, if Joe has OCP, she can't detect him at all, straight up.
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I suspect she can perceive world through her telekinesis, at least somehow.
Almost certainly nowhere as good as she can (usually) do through her pre- and postcognition, but she unlikely to be completely blind.

Btw, about Endbringers. Do you, guys, really think there will be canon Leviathan attack May 15th? I think that going to be all three at once, and probably earlier. Especially if Joe'll get OCP, because it'll scare the hell out of Ziz.
 
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Squamous Deity said:
It's not about destroying Joe's armour, it's about removing it. I assume that the scenario Daym is thinking of is something like the Simurgh telekinetically removing his armour.
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A sufficiently precise Vista might be able to slip someone out of their apparel without relying on damage to either the stuff itself or the wearer. So might Night Hag for that matter.
Koraan said:
I suspect she can perceive world through her telrcinesis, at least somehow.
Almost certainly nowhere as good as she can (usually) do through her pre- and postcognition, but she unlikely to be completely blind.

Btw, about Endbringers. Do you, guys, really think there will be canon Leviathan attack May 15th? I think that going to be all three at once, and probably earlier. Especially if Joe'll get OCP, because it'll scare the hell out of Ziz.
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A better question is whether Joe would go to where they did attack if they didn't go after Brookton.
 
Well doesn't Joe have a transwarp space that enables him to just will the suit into place? Its possible that there are no locks or anything keeping it on, just that theres no way to put it on besides bringing the suit back into reality around his body.
 
Koraan said:
Btw, about Endbringers. Do you, guys, really think there will be canon Leviathan attack May 15th? I think that going to be all three at once, and probably earlier.
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I fully expect all three to come at Joe in order to eliminate a threat to not only the cycle but also entities as a whole. Tho I doubt they would even be able to kill him with their power set(unless new Endbringer pop up that have hax powers like Khonsu), as Lord confirms Ziz brand of mastering wouldn't affect Joe much since he can resist thanks to the many changes in his body and brain structure, the only thing Ziz is use her thinker powers and hurt the surrounding of Joe like the people he cares about and cause tons of collateral before Joe's decides to rip her to shreds which then she would just immediately runaway into outer space, to later on try to harass him again, like bitch she is. Leviathan can't do shit to Joe at all and Joe can easily tank anything Leviathan can throw at Joe, so Leviathan again might just go the spite option and try to avoid Joe and wreck stuff and hurt Joe by destroying BB, the same with behemoth since there's nothing Behemoth can do to hurt Joe.
 
Utterly Depraved said:
A better question is whether Joe would go to where they did attack if they didn't go after Brookton.
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That one is easy. Right now he have three troubles:
1) Uncertainity. He don't know how Endbringers works. That mean, he can't be sure what can kill them and what can't. He, of course, want to be sure without a shadow of doubt that his strike will put them down.
2) Ominous warning from his Passenger. He know that he need to do something before he'll kill endbringer, or it'll only make things worse. But he doesn't know what he need to do.
3) Collateral damage. Currently, his options that have chance to kill an Endbringer is "let's strike it as hard as I can and hope it'll be enough". Of course, collateral damage from such strikes at best would devastate a city. At worst - destroy the Earth.
So, beside second point, if he'll get some good shit, that'll allow him to use fiat-backed annihilator effects without much collateral damage - he'll almost certainly to come and fight. Or, even more likely, will attack Ziz first.
Otherwise... Most likely he'll help with search and rescue, I think.

Daxus1120 said:
Tho I doubt they would even be able to kill him with their power set
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Indeed.
 
So, something that may or may not comeup.

Name Association.

Armsmaster has many things named for him, especially underwear.

I admit I want to see a snip of a commercial featuring "Aperion", like the one on t.v. for Duluth underwear.

Would Accord buy a pair if Advertised?
 
Right so, I have a question. Panzerkampf insures that all tools of war you produce can only be damaged or hindered in their function via direct enemy action. Now, would bodyarmour be covered by this perk and if yes, would that make Joe then immune to all attacks, even esoteric ones such as timestop, that are not personally fired at him by an enemy? Because that could prove quite useful in future engagements with Vakuda.
 
DeusVult said:
Right so, I have a question. Panzerkampf insures that all tools of war you produce can only be damaged or hindered in their function via direct enemy action. Now, would bodyarmour be covered by this perk and if yes, would that make Joe then immune to all attacks, even esoteric ones such as timestop, that are not personally fired at him by an enemy? Because that could prove quite useful in future engagements with Vakuda.
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I suspect that "enemy attacks an area that you are in" still counts as "direct enemy action" — bombs, artillery strikes, landmines, etc. However, "enemy attack destabilises a building, which then falls on you" most likely does not, unless they were specifically using demolition charges to bring the building down or something.
 
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