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Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

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1condor12 said:
I had to go looking, because I vaugly remembered something like this in one of the later versions of the Forge. I found it.

the Capstone boosted "Development & Improvement" from Mass Effect Andromeda does exactly this.

When you've got a really rare item on your hands that's made out of materials you need absolutely right now, the regret of doing so might paralyze you. After all, who knows when you will next be able to get your hands on one? Well, fear no more! Now when you break something down for resources, you can make a blueprint for it. So you can build it later, or even make even more of them. And if you don't want to break it down for resources, you can also be careful to just take it apart into its constituent parts, learn what every little thing does, and then put it back together. And you now have a blueprint you can use to make copies. Blueprints for everyoneJumper!

Capstone boosted: Having an AI observing everything you do may be creepy, but at least it's willing to give you tips for improving. Like how to improve the things you are building. Every time you build something, you can now improve it somehow, just a little bit. Take a little weight off here, shave that down, and after enough, you might have a whole new toy in your hands. Any improvements you make will be added on to the blueprint, so you can further improve it from there. It may not seem like much, but if you build a Mk X gun 100 times, your improved blueprint might very well qualify for Mk XI status, or maybe even better. You can keep improving that blueprint as much as you like.
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Awesome. Pity the version LR uses is locked in already, because I really want to see what happens to Matrix under that effect. I also love that it is a nanite colony that wont grey goo because of, essentially, its religion.

Updates from the latest Exalted kickstarter really make me want to add to the forge though.

I'd really love a perk that was basically the Forgetech (because it isnt tinkertech) equivalent of training/teaching methods or new designer martial arts.

Actually @LordRoustabout - Sports scientists develop new diets, training plans, and even techniques to get athletes the edge all the time. (The Fosbury Flop, for example, adds hugely to a high jump compared to contemporary techniques). I'm pretty disappointed your forge doesnt include a single perk for designing new techniques, skills or ways of performing existing tasks. Especially since designing a new martial art is the only way Joe is gonna get ahead of his 'half a dozen bespoke weapons, and nearly as many unarmed styles' problem.
 
MaimakteriAnn said:
Actually @LordRoustabout - Sports scientists develop new diets, training plans, and even techniques to get athletes the edge all the time. (The Fosbury Flop, for example, adds hugely to a high jump compared to contemporary techniques). I'm pretty disappointed your forge doesnt include a single perk for designing new techniques, skills or ways of performing existing tasks. Especially since designing a new martial art is the only way Joe is gonna get ahead of his 'half a dozen bespoke weapons, and nearly as many unarmed styles' problem.
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I bet machine learning techniques would help.
 
LordRoustabout said:
I think Armsmaster is more focused on efficiency of design rather than efficiency of action. It's important to him, but this kind of efficiency isn't the kind of thing that's infringing on his specialization. Joe already has his Q-branch Bond training for that kind of thing.
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I think that quote was in reference to Armsmaster's mentality of trying to efficiently streamline his heroics. Having a guarantee of perfect efficiency in everything you do is the exact kind of thing that Armsmaster would love in that regard - it would allow him to cut down on time spent training, sleeping, etc. so that he could spend more time tinkering, testing, patrolling, etc. There's probably some fanon about Colin being an efficiency-obsessed robot mixed in there.
MaimakteriAnn said:
Awesome. Pity the version LR uses is locked in already, because I really want to see what happens to Matrix under that effect. I also love that it is a nanite colony that wont grey goo because of, essentially, its religion.

Updates from the latest Exalted kickstarter really make me want to add to the forge though.

I'd really love a perk that was basically the Forgetech (because it isnt tinkertech) equivalent of training/teaching methods or new designer martial arts.

Actually @LordRoustabout - Sports scientists develop new diets, training plans, and even techniques to get athletes the edge all the time. (The Fosbury Flop, for example, adds hugely to a high jump compared to contemporary techniques). I'm pretty disappointed your forge doesnt include a single perk for designing new techniques, skills or ways of performing existing tasks. Especially since designing a new martial art is the only way Joe is gonna get ahead of his 'half a dozen bespoke weapons, and nearly as many unarmed styles' problem.
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Lord didn't create the celestial forge, someone else in the Jumpchain community did, several years ago. LordR is simply the first one to write a fic utilizing the premise AFAIK.
 
@LordRoustabout
I'm not sure if anybody has asked this yet
But I remember from an earlier chapter that Joe was able to sidestep Ashia's power by relabeling what his mind associates with her.
So now does the player pin negate her power completely?
 
Subrosian_Smithy said:
I bet machine learning techniques would help.
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The thing about martial arts is that they're not just methods of moving the body and applying force to things efficiently but also of not being impeded by others in your efforts to do so. It's not just mechanical but also psychological. For the same reason that Joe was worried about himself being the only example of humanity to his AIs and Tetra it would also be enormously difficult for them to help him to develop his martial arts.

I would think that Survey would be able to build up enough knowledge to do that but I feel like the mental model recursion inherent in it might mess with her somewhat.

All of that being said though they could probably kidnap Crane The Harmonious and interrogate her for her conditioning methods. Actually letting her use them would most definitely not be on the table, because she tends to condition people for both excellence in martial arts and to obey her, but getting a bit creative about getting knowledge out of her should be fine since she's a asshole...Actually she's probably the kind of manipulative that Jon could stand to have a trial

Interestingly enough powers come with personality pollution, normally polluting ones self with more of ones self and being fine, and that should allow one to pollute something like a fork, or a engineered personality or a AI or a fork of a AI or something, with her personality in a way that doesn't damage/change it in any way but rather acts like a split personality on a leash or a lizard hind-brain and simply grants intuitive modeling of their knowledge and actions and whatnot.
MangoFlan said:
Simple Scientific Solution could offer a solution. Getting home safely is in some way a domestic issue.
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...Thinking about it Toybox might actually be able to help with this. Dodge is able to make pocket dimension access devices. If he could link more then one access device to the same pocket dimension, preferably without them needing to be in the same location, then it'd almost definitely be possible to daisy-chain them across all-but-arbitrary distances. Dot the city with them and be able to open a portal anywhere.

You might need to make a venn diagram looking chain of smaller pocket dimensions with access to eachother if the access devices couldn't be further away from eachother then the size of the pocket dimension, or you might be able to have them work from wherever you wanted even without range extenders, but it'd be a start.

There's also Glaces stasis technology, Pyrotechnicals fire manipulation technology that might help Jon develop his fire manipulation abilities, and Big Rigs construction drones which could inform a lot of things. Like I'm sure that Matrix could benefit from the remote construction devices and that Fleet would at the very least enjoy meeting a drone specialist.



Edit: thinking about it if Toy Soldiers mecha/armor counts as personal equipment Joe might be able to crib a few notes from it to build a better workshop with the full benefit of his equipment construction speed boosting Perks. Plus there's the fact that having a bunch of mecha that combine and transform into his volcano lair would be pretty damned cool even without the ability to reconfigure on the fly.
 
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if Joe wins that wouldn't he be Dovahkiin?
Dragon Soul 300 You have the soul of a dragon, or at least people seem to think that now. Aside from the cool factor this give you a greatly increased aptitude for magic of all kinds and, even if only slight, the respect of dragons. Allowing you to talk to even the most haughty of flying lizards without them immediately trying to kill you.
 
Shirou0emiya said:
if Joe wins that wouldn't he be Dovahkiin?
Dragon Soul 300 You have the soul of a dragon, or at least people seem to think that now. Aside from the cool factor this give you a greatly increased aptitude for magic of all kinds and, even if only slight, the respect of dragons. Allowing you to talk to even the most haughty of flying lizards without them immediately trying to kill you.
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Different Cosmology, being a Dragon means different things in different universes. You wouldn't say Danerys is as good as the Dragonborn now, would you?
 
Shirou0emiya said:
no she's not, but she doesn't have access to Skyrim's spell system like Joe does with Skyforge
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THis is a very grey area, and ultimately it would be up to Lord. The only reason Joe has Magika is because all people in ES have Magika. His only actual perks are Skyforge, just an item that makes strong stuff, and The Lover Standing Stone, which isn't about magika or anything. Thu'um is kinda beyond that, so I would understand LR saying that it doesn't apply.

Assuming that that isn't a limitation though, Dragons in ES are not like Fate Dragons on any level, but the forge would probably equate them. If that's the case Xenospecialist might help him with Thu'um, but he knows 0 shouts, so it would be hard to get ANYWHERE. Also fairly certain the Dovakiin perk in Skyrim is more than 300CP, so Joe would be a pretty weak Dovakiin either way.
SearchEngine said:
does the Dragon Soul qualify as a Crafting Perk? Is it because it would boost enchanting and alchemy?
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Well let's look at Master Craftsman:
Master Craftsman (King Arthur) 600:
Thanks to being taught by faeries anything you make by hand is a great deal better than anything regular human can make. Armor is nearly indestructible and lighter than it should be, blades are sharper, blunt weapons have more force behind them, bows and crossbows can shoot farther and are easier to pull back. Even mundane items like baskets work better, though you can't give items mystical powers without being a wizard or something.
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"Being a wizard" would improve this perk's abilities. Thus, Lord said that Joe would get the Magic perk from King Arthur, plus Dragon Soul and Malificium because they boost that power.
 
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Dragon's New Lair (PHO - Koraan)
  • Apocrypha
    • @LordRoustabout, dear audience, I have the honor to present you a new omake.
    "Dragon's New Lair (PHO)" omake was created thanks to the collective efforts of the users of the PHO Blacksmithery thread.
    Thanks everyone for particupating. I apologize to those whose posts were not included in this omake, but it turned out to be quite long, so I had to remove some comments. And one - because The Big Reveal Of The Logs didn't happened (yet), and I don't know how to change that comment to exclude that fact. For those who interested - you can see original, full version here.
    I used green to color fake "links", so that people hopefully won't mistake them for real ones. Thanks to @SoulShdw for the idea.

    Everyone welcome to join the thread, even if you won't write anything - there's many more funny, and sometimes insightful, comments to read.

    Anyway, to the omake:
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    ♦ Topic: Dragon's New Lair - Meaning for Brockton Bay
    In: Boards ► Places ► America ► Brockton Bay
    InsertUsername     (Original Poster) (Verified User)
    Posted On Apr 27th 2011:
    There are, at the moment I'm typing that post, two active thread where people argue about "why Dragon decided to move", and at least seven already closed by mods. But, for some reason, no one wants to speculate what that will mean to her new home.
    Member of the Guild, (one of) the greatest Tinkers alive, person that participates in every Endbringer fight (from the moment she appeared), and many other S-Class situations. How much she can change the city that, from the outside perspective, looks like, sorry for my French, hellish shithole.
    Her presence alone can bring new "Cape pilgrims". That means more money for business that serving tourists: hotels, souvenir shops and so on.
    On the other hand, infamous Dragon slayers, likely, will move to follow her. And that city doesn't need more villains, even if those villains have a mercenary side-job.

    On that note, let's begin wild guessing!

    P.S. I know that shipping is way more interesting than economy, but there are other threads for that (if they weren't locked already). So, as much as I'd like to talk about Iron Dragon, let's do it somewhere else.

    ​
    (Showing page 1 of 15)


    ►Bagrat (Veteran Member) (The Guy in the Know)
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    As a proud BB citizen, I can say that it could go both ways, honestly, with a bias towards the good side. The reason why we had the relative peace before is due to no one wanting to evoke a free-for-all war with the Empire, ABB, Merchants, the good guys, and the scattered independent villains. While that truce-like situation was shattered by Apeiron going ape mode against the ABB, it means that both sides of the cape scene are going to balls to the wall trying to keep on top of the situation. The PRT is stretched far too thin and the damage is extensive. This is alleviated a bit by the various Heroes from out of town moving in.

    Now, we're back to a truce-like state. Apeiron being out of commission at the moment means that the villains and the heroes can act as they please without seeking retribution from him (provided they don't go after the Undersiders), except everyone knows that they have to move more quietly and subtly to not worsen the situation.

    Dragon's arrival may change the scales to the point that it weighs in favor of the heroes, but that just means that the villains would be desperate enough to escalate.

    It's a 50/50 at this point. Not to mention her...'pursuit'...of Apeiron himself.


    ►SmugMug
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    Hey, that's my hellish shithole you are talking about! *shake fist*

    Well, I for one hope she comes up with a solution for the blackout zone, and hopefuly find a way to prevent that shit show from happening again. I know the college kids are studying the stuff, but with Tinkers you never know if us normies can even understand anything at all or just enough to throw our hand up and give up. *shrug*

    Economicaly? *put on glasses* Expect the usual Cape enthusiasts/tourist to come by the truckload, and that includes both Hero Tinkers hoping to work 'in person' with our beloved Dragon in a.... safe-ish enviroment, and the guy whoes name screams "imma poke the dragon with a pointy stick". In other words, it can be a mixed bag all in all. But hey, probably better security over all, so that's a plus!

    As for her "pursuit" of Tigeiron (seriously, that was a big cat!), leaving that delightful ship aside, the way I see it she probably is after some of his tech, with how quick he appears to shit out mechs/lazoors/drones there must be something reproduceable by Dragon that she can use for, well, everything really. And if she is able to make the same with his med tech, oh boy, will that be amazing news for patients around the nation, because if it could despaggethify Grue, then it can certainly help cancer! *omega good job thumbs up*

    In other words, I for one welcome our new Dragon Overlady! *nod nod*


    ►DrowningInTheBay
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    Speaking of shipping, I genuinely think Dragon deciding to shack up in BB will likely lead to something happening to the Boat Graveyard. Not sure if it'd be something good but it'd be something, hopefully someone clears it out at the least.
    Seriously the thing is an eyesore and an environmental hazard, the fuckos that decided that blockading the Bay was a good strike idea fucked us over decades later because the city government would rather do nothing about it than return the Bay's waterways to working order.


    ►SmugMug
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    @DrowningInTheBay Yeeeeah, about that *scratch back of the head* I don't think our Lawful Good Dragon can do that legally or at least not without a permit by the goverment. Let's give our thanks and a giant middle finger to the law that don't let Hero Capes do freaking charity *does innapropiate gestures to the law*..... I mean, it hasn't really stopped Capes from doing it anyway, pretty sure every Tinker in our lovely city have gone scubba diving for ship class steel at some point.

    It would be pretty, what's the word, lovely to see the bay looking pristine (well, pristine for an industrial city) again after all this time though, so you have my signing hand if you are making a petition *shake hand as if holding a pencil*

    The boys at the docks would definitely give a hand to help too for a good paycheck *thumbs up*

    Of course, before any of that the blackout zone and whatever was fueling "three days old tech"'s tech have to be cleared out though. *sighs in tiredness*

    And the cray cray bomb stalker be captured. *lean over in defeat*

    But let's think positive! *get second wind*

    With Dragon, and the outside Heroes lending they help, this shit situation will probably improve way faster than usual! And with how much coverage this whole have been getting it may even not go back to out usual normal.


    ►MemeticLectern
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    I don't know that there's much to speculate on? Dragon announced that she believes that Apeiron is a threat after coming into contact with him, and thinks his capture is a priority. Quite frankly, after the mess that was Thursday, I am inclined to agree.

    AS for the graveyard, what I heard was a private facility downtown, so I doubt that issue is gonna be solved any time soon. Not to mention, as great as it would be, it's not high on the priority list. Still, I wonder what Apeiron did to convince her that he is a major threat?


    ►SmugMug
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    Eeeeh, it does sound like she wants to capture him because he is a threat, just that it's necessary to capture him, and she seemed oddly.... neutral I guess is the word, about him, like she was purposely not calling him a villain or criminal. *puts rose tinted glasses* That's why the guys over at the shipping thread (including moi) have been going nuts over Iron Dragon. Specially with how she says "capture" and "pursuit"~*wiggle fingers*


    ►EverydayMan
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    It's good to hear that at least someone competent will be helping the local PRT branch. Scion knows we need it. And there might be some added benefit to her presence. Rumor is that Dragon tends to farm out production of some of her tech/components in the places she's based out of. If she's going to be in the area long term... well, there's a lot of empty warehouses up for sale, and people with the proper machining skills looking for good work. Might be good for the local economy, despite all the other insanity going on here.

    A guy can dream, can't he?


    ►ConsoiranoidGuyGalLlama
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    I want to say than i belive in the Dragon is mastered theory. The the suden Attack on Apeiron and the fact than only the Dragon Slayers have been capable of goin anganish the Dragon lady, i can see one of the Dragon Slayes as a Master, maybe compulsions if given "x" or "y" stimulus, maybe short periods than Dragon is actualy under the effect, but if a Master is in play i bet 100 bucks on the Slayers.


    ►OhNoMyUsername (Verified Dragon Fanboy)
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    I'm actually super excited Dragon is coming here! She's gotta be my favorite hero, hands down. What with the Dragon theme (always cool (local examples notwithstanding)), the reverse engineered Tinker-tech, and her just seeming to be a genuinely good person.

    Personally, I'm most excited to see what she and Armsmaster are gonna do now that they're a tally in the same city. I know they've collaborated a lot in the past, but with two of the best tinkers on the planet working together, and the possibility of Apeiron joining and making it a trio? We might have our own Triumvirate made from Tinker's!

    ...as unlikely as that last part is, it's still a nice thing to dream about.

    Edit: I will wear this new tag with pride.


    ►InsertUsername (Original Poster) (Verified User)
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    Thanks everyone for input.
    @ Bagrat, good analysis, as always.

    @SmugMug,
    >Hey, that's my hellish shithole you are talking about! *shake fist*
    It is truly a testament to the greatness of the human race that we humans are able to survive in such conditions!
    The only bad thing is that we tend to create such conditions in the first place... :(

    >way I see it she probably is after some of his tech, with how quick he appears to shit out mechs/lazoors/drones there must be something reproduceable by Dragon
    Interesting idea. And a lot more sensible than most other reasons, imo.

    @EverydayMan,
    >Rumor is that Dragon tends to farm out production of some of her tech/components in the places she's based out of.
    Even if that's true, I bet there will be strict and careful selection of candidates. Imagine what could happen if some of the secrets of mass-producing tinkertech will fall into the hands of the villains!

    @ConsoiranoidGuyGalLlama,
    >I want to say than i belive in the Dragon is mastered theory.
    Please, keep the theories in the appropriate threads. No one want to add more work for the mods (well, there is some people, but let's not talk about them).

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    ►Dragons4life
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    I mean, everybody is acting like Dragon is gonna make this her new base of operations, but far as I know, she's only declared her intent to pursue (I mean, try to capture) Apherion. Sure, that means one more hero for the Bay, but like, Dragon is Big. She's a member of the guild, she monitors the Birdcage and she's the Greatest Tinker in the world (because even if Apherion is, well, Apherion, she's still contributed more to the overall level of tech on earth. Also, mass production. *sigh* She's so cool.)

    What I mean is, don't expect her to give all that much attention to uplifting the Bay. (At least not until her and Apherion get into the tinker-tech show off steps of their courting. Which will evidently end in a four-way contest into Garment (which, Idk what she's classified as, her clothing is good enough to count.), Dragon, Apherion and of course, Armsmaster.)


    ►SmugMug
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    @InsertUsername Well, what can I say, we are the Australia (Cape Edition) of the USA *scratch head in embarrassment misconstrued praise*

    It does make one feel a little selfconcious when you see can see the difference between locals and tourists the moment a Cape fight start a couple of blocks away. Headless chicken vs fire drills.... *hug self in uneasy contemplation*

    Leaving depressing topics aside *metaphorically throw the topic against the wall*, if the Dragon Machine Lady really is her some delicious Tigeiron Tech, do you think she may be able to decipher whatever he is using to control his mechs? Because if there is one think Dragon lacks is being able to field more than one mech at a time, or at least I have never heard of her do it *look at tech speculation thread in exitement*

    EDIT:
    @Dragon4life Get yar names right, my Dragon loving compadre! Is Tigeiron! *complain while getting Apeiron's name wrong*

    And if Garment is involved it will innevitably end up in a fashion show off! Sadly, Armsmaster would be the first to fall off that train....


    ►DrowningInTheBay
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    God has forsaken us with shippers it seems, not likeI don't like any particular ship(besides ones involving statutory shit), but why you gotta derail things with it?

    I realize now however that there is a genuine possibility that Dragon being in the Bay will be a temporary situation, as I don't see Apeiron staying here now that Dragon is on his ass.
    I can totally see him skipping townonce he fully recovers in the ensuing weeks. Not much else to expect other than Dragon immediately tracking him down and capturing him, or at least attempting to.


    ►OhNoMyUsername (Verified Dragon Fanboy)
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    @DrowningInTheBay I doubt she'll be able to track him down that easily. As cool as she is, The Dragonslayers have built their careers off of facing her, and they're absolutely not on Aperion's level unless they've been holding back a lot.

    ...and I've just realized we don't have a local example of a Dragon-themed cape anymore. Makes me feel kinda bad, since I don't want to speak ill of the dead, but at the same time...


    ►InsertUsername (Original Poster) (Verified User)
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    @DrowningInTheBay, That's, afaik, the first time the Dragon did not just fly to the place and then back, but actually moves her base to a new location. So, I'd say, you have decent chances to see her for some time at least.

    >I don't see Apeiron staying here now that Dragon is on his ass
    If he is confident in his stealthiness and sure that he can sneak right under her nose with all his goods and chattels - then yes, he can move away before she found his lair sooner or later. But then again, if he's so confident about his stealthiness, he may decide to stay, because that will take her awhile to track him.
    Otherwise, if he isn't sure he sneaky enough, he might decide to stay, because he will be more vulnerable during the moving. And that's a pain to sneakily move a Tinker workshop, I suspect, especially something big and advanced enough to build the fucking Gundam in.


    ►DebbieDowner
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    Well... I hate to be the one that brings this up... but does the Ape of Iron even need to run?
    From how their first online fight went, according to the press release, he can hold his own against our Tinker Lady of Scaley Awesomesauce. And while Dragon's suits are good... this is the guy who used one of his transformer bikes to take down Lung. Hell, half the city is in crazy shape because of him just being hit. The ramifications of the 'how' for both those things still escapes people, but between that, and the crazy build/modification time he demonstrated in his fight against the videogame idiots... there's a good chance this attention seeking Tinker is just going to say "Come at me."

    p.s. What is the Tinker version of "Come at me, bro?" anyway?

    p.s. 2 Here's some nightmare-fuel as well: Apeiron getting hold of some of Dragon's gear. He's bad enough as he is right now. I don't think anyone wants the nightmare of this guy somehow cracking mass-production.


    ►InsertUsername (Original Poster) (Verified User)
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    There's one more option, that no one mentioned so far. Dragonslavers are mercenaries, so Apeiron might hire them to help fend off the Dragon.
    Don't sure he need that, @DebbieDowner have a good point about that.

    And about other points that @DebbieDowner have:
    >I don't think anyone wants the nightmare of this guy somehow cracking mass-production.
    For what we saw in the video you mentioned (link, look from 2:14 to 2:21), he can into mass production with his bare hands.
    Though, Dragon's mass produced tech doesn't need any more maintenance than regular mundane tech. And with that and his speed, he will be limited only by resources he have... :o

    Edit: fucking autocorrupt... But I'm going to keep it - that fits their mojo.


    ►BastardAndAGentleman
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    Well, disregarding all that. Having her around will still be good with our city's normal cast of scumbags. I doubt Kaiser and his SS-wannabes will be too eager to tangle with Dragon. It's one thing to get into a fight with our locals, it's another to take a swing at a visiting hero of her reputation. That's the kind of stuff that makes people a priority rather than an annoyance. And while the E88 sucks to us, the people of the Bay, the rest of the country doesn't really give them a second thought. Word of them taking a swing at Dragon, of all people?

    That's the kind of stuff that... inspires certain heavy hitters to take a trip. Especially when someone mentions the fact that they're Nazis. I mean, who doesn't love a good Nazi stomping? The greatest generation made their mark on history by stomping Nazis.


    ►WakeUpAmerica
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    But if Apherion moves, how will he keep up his double life as Garment, huh? WAKE UP, People! Have you seen Garment-made stuff? What other cape has that impecable aesthetic sense?!? Who has been seen using DRONES???

    And just in case a mod comes for me, I'm arguing against Apherion actually moving. And If anyone complains, I'm calling Garpherion shippers' shanenigans!


    ►DandyWingman
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    > If he is confident in his stealthiness and sure that he can sneak right under her nose
    Consider this: To properly 'bring him in' Dragon will need to disable Apeiron in some fashion. And I really doubt you can gas the guy. Even if he has no gas mask under his cape, Apeiron moves too fast and obviously has other options to deal with the situation. Trying to dose him with some drug covered dart is not even a funny joke, he will no-sell the thing. Disabling Apeiron means either disabling or breaking his equipment.

    First one doesn't appear to be feasible, Apeiron disabling Dragon's equipment is more likely, stares at blackout zone for emphasis. I really hope Apeiron or whoever built that robot won't weaponize the effect more than they already did, but Apeiron does appear to know what it is and how to use and bypass it - he did scan the blackout area somehow. Or at minimum Apeiron collaborates with the tinker who made that Gundam. Meanwhile Dragon's missiles couldn't even fly properly while near Gundam and Dragon's suit was avoiding Blackoout area. Breaking Apeiron's equipment is an option, it kind of did work for ABB. The problem is that to do that means to cause a lot of collateral. Imagine that collateral inside the city! Even if Dragon figures a way to bypass Apeiron's equipment without breaking it, it is not a 100% warranty that it will work like Dragon expects it, which returns us to issue of collateral.

    Apeiron doesn't need to sneak under Dragon's nose. He can just start posturing in the middle of the city and there will be little Dragon can do simply for the fear of collateral.

    Another issue is his lab... While it might be sufficiently out of the way to be a feasible target, I doubt Apeiron is an exemption to the 'do not attack tinker in his lab' rule. Attacking the lab without a tinker inside will be 'a delay' for Apeiron or will drive him away in best case scenario. Lets not forget that an angry Gundam might object. An angry Gundam that held its own against Lung and flew away under it's own power!
    And reminder: it's a walker! Not a helicopter, it was meant to fight on land, where it likely will be of far more use and is likely waiting inside the lab. We don't want a Gundam to object.

    ​
    End of Page. 1, 2, 3, 4 ... 13, 14, 15


    ​
    (Showing page 4 of 15)


    ►OhNoMyUsername (Verified Dragon Fanboy)
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    ...imagine Dragon getting her claws on that Gundam... did anybody say Kaiju Fight 2: Draconic Boogaloo?


    ►TheBoltingNitwit
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    Y'know, so many people seem to be cheering this move, but don't the DragonSlayers keep getting one over Dragon? And ain't they mercenaries? What's stopping Apeiron, the Empire, hell even the Archer Street Merchants from hiring them for a heist on her base? All this chaos and disruption seems like the perfect time for a bunch of tech to go missing from her manifests or whatever she's got there.


    ►InsertUsername (Original Poster) (Verified User)
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    @DandyWingman, a lot of good points. But I don't think Dragon would've rush headlong without any idea how to deal with him. She definitely have a plan, or an ace in the hole.
    I can freely admit that I hope her plan includes no fighting at all, for several reasons. *wink-wink nudge-nudge*

    @TheBoltingNitwit, yeah, just what I said earlier. I think people dislike them so much they don't want to even think about them.
    You know, when people on PHO don't want to speculate about someone's power or even ship them, that says a lot about person's level of assholery.


    ►Haveyourarticleneedyourmoney (Verified cape Stalker)
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    Well i do know how the Dragon lady can help MY economy.

    I just get back from a working hours to adquire This, i have to scratch everywere for this but good part of that extrange effect in the Dock is caused by this colorfull sustance. I have vídeo of me working for this.

    So i am willing to part with one jar for $100,000.

    Please only Verified Heroes or PRT agents, send me a PM.


    ►EverydayMan
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    Bets on how long before the PRT stormtroopers show up at Haveyourarticleneedyourmoney 's house for advertising the illegal sale of a dangerous Tinker substance?


    ►InsertUsername (Original Poster) (Verified User)
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    @EverydayMan, if they're as busy currently with the consequences of the yesterday's clusterfuck as I suspect, that's actually might take them awhile. My five internet bucks that gangers will be there first.


    ►Holahola
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    In a vane effort to bring back the discussion to the economic considerations I will say that I hope that Apeiron gets declared a Villan, and that his cure for c53 is genuine.

    Now, I like the Doomape and wish him nothing bad. But he is also the kind of powerhouse we need to repeal Nepea.

    Now, for those of you who doesn't read the law, it is essentially all the old boys got together to protect their interests by making it borderline impossible to make a profit from your own powers. And written so broad that the PRT can legally take your family business if you trigger with basically any power if pho can make any argument that it can give you an unfair advantage in the feild. (I would point you to this thread on how most absurd leveraging we could come up with. Personal favorite is how Puritys power gives an unfair advantage for office work)

    Rumours say that They sold it to the PRT as a way to 'encourage' capes to join up with the protectorate and up the hero quota, and didn't think 2 seconds about how people might not want to join the guys that stole grandma's farm and instead chose to go villan.

    Now, if the cure is real, and Apeiron leverages it, the shear pressure to make buying the cure legal Forse nepa to be appealed


    ►NotALawyer
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    > Now, if the cure is real, and Apeiron leverages it, the shear pressure to make buying the cure legal Forse nepa to be appealed
    I'm not really familiar with the law (it doesn't apply to me for obvious reasons, and I don't often take the time to read hundred+ page legal documents unless I have to, for my own sanity if nothing else) but wouldn't this specific example fall under one of the exceptions of said law? Not saying I don't get where you're coming from, but the c53 example would probably fall under the existing exceptions. In addition, I could easily be wrong but I don't think there are enough c53's that this would warrant potential widespread economic harm.

    This of course assumes that the said cure actually works. Everything we've heard is mostly smoke and mirrors at this point. However, having him declared a villain wouldn't really help either his case, or yours with the desire to repeal said law. It also assumes that said 'cure' is like a pill, or a vaccine; it can produced and shipped. If it's something more equivalent of Apeiron-level surgery or something, then it's not really a practical example.

    A better example would be if he stays in that indeterminate state he appears to be in and invent manages to actually sell his normal healing tech. That would bring N5 directly into focus again, and considering some of the things the healing has shown it can deal with, there isn't a hospital alive that wouldn't want it. But then again, Tinkertech breaks down so he probably can't sell it.


    ►InsertUsername (Original Poster) (Verified User)
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    >But then again, Tinkertech breaks down so he probably can't sell it.
    Tinkertech breaks quickly, but not instantly as it leaves Tinker's hands... Well, some Tinkers like L33t aside, whose tech could breaks even when still in their hands, sometimes literally.
    So, if Ape would be able to offer his healing tech that will last even a day or two, there will be a serious level of demand. And since usually tinkertech can last, according to that thread, at least two weeks...


    ►NotALawyer
    Replied On Apr 27th 2011:
    @InsertUsername Point. It still goes back to 'how it actually works'. If it's something only he can use, then it's less a selling Tinkertech thing, and more selling a service I suppose. But seeing how there are capes who can do some facsimile of healing for money (I mean, I've heard Panacea does it for free, but I think Scapegoat charges for personal request - can anyone confirm?), there's probably already exceptions built into the law for life-saving treatments or something like that.

    ​
    End of Page. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 13, 14, 15


    ​
    ■​
     
  • Apocrypha
    • Once More Unto the Breechless (Albert)
  • Apocrypha
    • Okay, since Joe managed to navel-gaze an entire chapter, LordRoustabout still (mostly) hasn't invalidated my recent omake chain. (see here and here) And I can retcon that with a line or two.

    So I'm going to keep going with it. Hopefully the post tomorrow will finally invalidate this.

    EDIT: LordRoustabout, going without power for days is a major hardship for people who have to do budget food shopping. As in, when the food in the fridge and freezer spoils you may have to decide whether you're going to eat or pay rent/utilities on time. From the time of Lung's death, there's 2-3 days before the fridge and freezer let in too much heat for what's in them to be salvageable.

    I'm not saying Joe has to make Rule 63 potions so that he can lead 12 cute anime girls in Striker Units and leotards to wave around wands that control water-vapor in order to clear away the I-field before the desperately poor living in the Docks lose both the food in their homes and the food in local thrift-stores-

    But the clock is ticking. The mess comes from tech he owns, that he okayed the deployment of. It may not be his fault, but it's his responsibility to fix it before the sudden expense stomps on the fingers of those barely hanging on to the cliff.


    Once More Unto the Breechless​

    "Why the wands, though?" Lisa asked, at the next meeting with Professor Hebert's daughter and her wayward friends. "And what did you do that's keeping me from knowing things about you?"

    So my mind-blank pin did work on her power. No wonder she'd looked horrified when I told them the plan, she hadn't been able to read me. "Psychic defense. Guess you're psychic after all, instead of only being super-Sherlock."

    To be fair, that pin was one reason I'd decided to sneak out and clean up the Dust on the sly. Combined with my remade cloak, I figured I was as stealthed against cape and smurf notice as I could reasonably hope for, at least not without a day or two of R&D, which would have resulted in worsening problems for people without power. That all that work had resulted in 3 am thinking, even though I'd just made a resolution to avoid that kind of insanity . . . well, at least the I-field was now gone.

    "As far as the wands, though, I assume some of you noticed that they were manipulating water vapor?" Everyone nodded, so I went on. "A hurricane would have cleared the I-field, but Brockton doesn't need that level of disaster at any time, let alone right after all this. So water wands, with visual feedback to let you know when the area was clear.

    "Anyway, Brian, I am sorry about the girl thing. I genuinely don't know when my passenger decided to binge on Aleph anime, but based on how often a tech cluster happens to be focused around cute teenage girls in anime-skimpy clothing, it's clearly a weeabo. And the Striker Units required everyone to be cute anime teenage girls wearing leotards in order to channel the magic that powered the wands. Since we were using water, better to have smaller areas of effect than to send a mass vapor blast through the area."

    "You know that PHO thinks you're trying to steal Armsmaster away from Dragon now, right?" Alec asked, grinning gleefully.

    "I have an agent monitering threads related to me, yes."

    The 180 in terms of PR had been shocking in how quickly nearly everyone had become sympathetic to poor, put-upon (and devastatingly cute) little miss Apeiron. Even though it was what I'd been aiming for. I mean, sure, Void Cowboy had eaten a month-long ban for insisting that I had to be some girl at his school who did modeling, and that had caused a bit of kerfuffle until Tin Mother -- aka Dragon -- had locked that particular thread. And the speculation about how I might 'really' look had gone absolutely wild, with rule 63 dino-dog-girls suddenly extremely popular, until the mods decided that the bare-chested teats on several such fan-art examples had become pronounced enough to be considered NSFW, locking that thread as well. But mostly . . .

    Well, with shape-shifting confirmed, everyone now accepted that I was a monster cape who'd pushed myself deep into Mad Scientist mode in order to get back to human. There was now a theory that I was such a showoff because my need to 'show them all' was centered around proving to everyone that I was better than fine, that I was perfect. And that theory was getting taken seriously, with people tying in my 'contracts', 'professional standards', my aesthetics-

    There was even a fic on PHO NSFW where I found Bakuda so that I could heal her, then dazzled her with lesbian sex until she was ready to become a hero. (Damn Aisha for finding it and bringing it to Survey's attention!) And people were treating it as a 'plausible' guess about what I would do to the mad bomber, since I 'obviously' sympathized with the damage she'd done to herself to regenerate her limbs.

    Survey says most of the prior fanfic about me is getting edited to incorporate 'my revealed tsundere attitude'.

    Yeah.

    And now I was suspected of showing off to get Armsmaster's attention, which was why Dragon was stalking me.

    "PHO is gonna PHO, I'm afraid," Lisa said. "At least they've decided you're waifu material and thus lovable. That was the plan, right?"

    "I had to do something to turn the PR nightmare-"

    Survey buzzed our watches, then set up a large hologram display of a PRT news conference. One where Director Piggot had just begun speaking.

    We watched in vaguely horrified awe -- or glee, from Alec -- as she acknowledged with a stone-faced expression that the PRT had overreacted to my 'uncomfortable revelations', that my actions since then had largely been to minimize civilian harm, that my 'taking charge' of the Undersiders was being considered in a more hopeful light, that the PRT would really like for the ABB capes to be neutralized so that the state of emergency could end, and that vigilantes who avoid unnecessary collateral damage, and even go to the extra effort of acting to undo damage that's unavoidable . . . could more properly be considered independent heroes, as long as they continued to act for the public good. Even if they aren't on the best of terms with the Protectorate or PRT.

    Everyone was silent for a good five minutes, after the statement was made and journalist questions were refused.

    Then Lisa cursed.

    "Coil's not going to let us go just because Piggot says you're our fucking boss!" she snapped, once she had our attention. "Every time he brings me in for a meeting I learn a little bit more about his base, how to subvert the defenses so that we can take him down without getting his prisoners killed. Because you and you would care about that, right?" she demanded, jabbing a finger at both Taylor and myself. "But now all that's over."

    "We're working for Coil?" Professor Hebert's daughter asked, sounding confused. "I thought he wasn't even a cape."

    Lisa shook her head. "When he brings you in, he does this big demonstration about how he can control probability. I knew there was more to it, but not what, but I could still use it to make plans. Then a little while back, we tried to recruit Spitfire, and I asked him to make things go smoothly. They didn't, I mouthed off to him, and he told me what his power actually was.

    "He can run two timelines, experiencing them both until he decides which one he wants to keep. Which is pretty handy for running missions, let me tell you, especially when he passes messages from one Tattletale to another."

    Then she shivered. "It's also really scary, because he can hurt you in one timeline, let you know what he did in the other, and then you've got to decide what you're willing to do to avoid the timeline where you were punished. And pray he agrees it's enough. Except with my power, he doesn't even need to tell me, I figure it out as he's doing it. Sometimes I know I'm telling him what he wants to hear in the other timeline, so that it'll end and I'll still be in the timeline where I don't get hurt.

    "But, in our last meeting Coil wasn't able to do anything, because even in safe mode my watch kept protecting me. And I could tell that, and it was funny as hell to watch him get frustrated. I didn't have to offer up anything I wanted to keep secret.

    "Then Piggot came on TV and told him you were taking over as our boss. I was still gathering information, because one of his prisoners is about Vista's age and I knew you'd hate it if Coil has a booby trap or something that kills her before you can rescue her. And he's got something really dangerous down at the bottom of his base, something about another prisoner but he's been good at keeping exactly what it is hidden from me."

    My passenger piped up to confirm that, yes, whatever was in Coil's basement, it was bad news.

    "Can you tell me where the young girl is, in his base?" I asked, trying not to sound furious. Because it was obvious she'd known that for a while, but Lisa hadn't cared enough to come forward with that until she knew 'everything' about Coil. She hadn't considered that if I wasn't revealing all my capabilities to her, that I might have something to infiltrate a villain's base with.

    Such as a Named stealth cloak with a phasing ability provided by Lathe of the Heavens, all of it boosted by (among a lot of other things) perfect Faerie craftsmanship to become a Divine Object.

    "Turn safe mode off and I'll show you the map I'd been making." Lisa scowled. "It would have been better if you'd let me use the scan functions the way I wanted to."

    "Then you should have asked me to let you use more of the scanning capability," I pointed out. "I certainly would have okay'd it for a better look at Coil's base."

    Her scowl deepened. Clearly she'd wanted it to be a surprise demonstration of her competency.

    Too bad.

    ***​

    I don't want to sound smug, but Coil didn't have a single damn thing that could stop me from phasing into Dinah's cell, healing the child enough to move her, and phasing out with his sensors none the wiser until I was gone.

    Survey told me who she was as I roof-jumped back home, putting Dinah into a quick-built sleeping pod to recover from the effects of addiction. When she woke up in a couple of days, I'd give her some choices about how much she wanted to remember from her captivity.

    (It also gave me some ideas for scanning Case 53 biology, since it seemed likely that I was going to have a lot of them seeking me out, once the state of emergency ended.)

    Then it was time to head back to the Undersiders.

    "The girl is safe," I told them. "Now, do any of you have problems working for me, since Piggot pretty much said you're being considered my minions?"

    "Working for the strongest Tinker in the world?" Alec countered. "As long as your Mad Scientist side is satisfied by showing off with anti-Squealer designs, named moves, and edgeGod fashion, I think I'm safer with you than anywhere else. Can I get psychic protection too?"

    "Taylor practically sees you as her older brother now," Lisa told me. "You have some connection with her family that neither of you realized before, but-" She cut off, grimacing. "Well, I suppose I've got to stick around, just to make sure you treat your new little sister right."

    I wasn't an expert with my pyromancy yet, but by the patterns of heat in her body and my sense of Hearth and Home, I could guess that something about siblings was a sore point for her.

    "You're the strongest," Rachel said. "You keep us safe and fix us when we're broken. You're already in charge."

    Brian looked unhappy. "I . . . I need help, before I can commit to this," he finally admitted. "It's my sister. Dad's got custody, except they clash too much, and our mother keeps trying to get custody back for the child support. I've been trying to get custody myself, she's a handful but we don't fight the way she does with Dad, but if we don't do it exactly right Mom's going to claim that she's the better guardian. And she isn't, she's a junkie and her boyfriends are creeps, but she's good at crying in front of a judge to get sympathy, and Dad doesn't look like a good father for a teenage girl gone wild."

    My thoughts went to Aisha. Which, hey . . . "You know, I might have an idea, there. Both in terms of steady legal work for you and maybe something your sister could do after school." Two Aishas working for Garment? That might be funny to watch. "I'll have a legal agent look into that, while we gear up to find and capture the rest of the ABB capes. Once they're taken care of, we can figure out how to take down Coil with a minimum of collateral."

    "How are we going to do that?" Taylor wanted to know.

    "First, with stealth drones to go looking for them. After that?

    "The Striker Units I made for you, I'm going to upgrade them with mechashift capability. Their other form will be protective pants, but flight mode is going to give you bare upper thighs again, so make sure to wear the leotards under your costumes. Or maybe short shorts or hotpants. So far, the best I can do is provide force screens that shield up to your belly, so you'll still be protected." I scowled. "Give me enough time and I will jailbreak modesty mode for them. I just haven't had a couple of weeks to work the problem yet, so wacky anime physics dreamed up by horny artists are still in charge.

    "Anyway, with hover and flight we've got full mobility, and we'll have Bakuda thoroughly outnumbered. If we have to chop off all her limbs again before we hand her over to the PRT, that's what we'll do. For Oni Lee, I have a dozen ways to blind him. We'll spam him with them until something sticks."

    A timer dinged. "Oh. Sounds like the pizza's ready. Okay, handkerchiefs over your noses until you sit down."

    Cloths were quickly raised as I stepped into their kitchen. Once my pyromancy confirmed that they were all sitting, I pulled away the curtain that had blocked the aroma, then pulled the pizzas out and began slicing.

    They were just coming out of the stunned trance, wiping away the drool that had leaked out while incapacitated, when I plated the doggie versions and walked back into the living room to hand those to Rachel.

    "Sliced and ready to eat," I confirmed as they looked around, still half-dazed by the divine smell coming from the food of the gods. "Don't worry, with repeated exposure you'll get used to it."

    Honestly, these days the hardest thing about cooking for others was making sure that the quality didn't Algernon their taste buds. I didn't want them wasting away just because I was too busy to cook for them and everything else tasted like ash.
     
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  • Apocrypha
    • Iirc, Dragon has Thinker powers right? Can those be used on the purely tech parts of Joe's gear and shiz? Could she figure out some stuff to improve her own from it?
     
    Kraftykidd said:
    Iirc, Dragon has Thinker powers right? Can those be used on the purely tech parts of Joe's gear and shiz? Could she figure out some stuff to improve her own from it?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Well, I guess if anyone in the Worm setting could do it, it'd be the thinker AI with the reverse-engineering power. Hell, Dragon is used to working from tinkertech, which seems to be at least partially held together by dimensional shortcuts and hopeful wishes. I'd guess Joe's (non-magical) tech should be fairly straightfoward to understand, compared to that.

    Of course, almost all of Joe's stuff is at least partially magical, so that would probably be a bit frustrating to deal with.
     
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    Bombastus said:
    Well, I guess if anyone in the Worm setting could do it, it'd be the thinker AI with the reverse-engineering power. Hell, Dragon is used to working from tinkertech, which seems to be at least partially held together by dimensional shortcuts and hopeful wishes. I'd guess Joe's (non-magical) tech should be fairly straightfoward to understand, compared to that.

    Of course, almost all of Joe's stuff is at least partially magical, so that would probably be a bit frustrating to deal with.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    True, but anything that isn't fully relying on magic or fiat should allow her to vastly improve once she scans it. And iirc there's a nice Motorbot Statue around for her to scan in person...

    God, now I want Dragon to fangirl over all the non "Tinker" aspects of his tech that are fully replicative if you are advanced enough tech Wise.

    Also, does Joe have Medigel? That'd be an invention he could mass produced and sell to hospitals and first responders.
     
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    Bombastus said:
    I'd guess Joe's (non-magical) tech should be fairly straightfoward to understand, compared to that.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Actually, Joe's tech, instead of Shard Fuckery (tm), often uses Fiat Fuckery (tm).
    And while tinkertech uses Shard Fuckery to sidestep insufficiently advanced components and unsuitable materials, Joe's tech often being designed to take advantage from fiat, and can't work without it at all.
     
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