Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

Like the fact that armor the size of a kneepad is giving him the same protection as a whole suit of armor so someone without an annihilator attack like Lung should've never been a threat.
What made lung a threat WAS March's annihilator effect. She blew away Joe's armor. She blew dust and tetra into his entire body.
To throw in my two cents on the argument, I'm firmly in camp "Wait until next week's update, and THEN have an opinion".
Next update is an interlude, but if it's PHO I wouldn't mind them reacting to the PRTs statement saying March is dead. If it's a hero I wouldn't having them find her corpse either.
TBH she's not likely dead. I doubt she'd die with such little spectacle.
And joe not freaking out or reacting in any way to killing her implies that he doesn't think she's dead at the very least.
She's certainly seriously maimed though, so get ready for Coil + March :)
Something nobody had mentioned yet in the reactions I had gotten to...This took place on the docks, so my question is.. Where is Danny? If he is home on the couch watching all this with his daughter, that isn't a significant question. But if his daughter is alone on the couch watching this, and her father is working late at the docks... where it is specifically mentioned the dockworkers still do some jobs... What do you think Lady Khepri will do? And if she does rush there to rescue her father, and perhaps help the guy who was mentored by her mother, will she know what to do if she sees a crumpled and crippled figure wearing a rabbit mask?

The other Undersiders might also think this is a time to help work off their debt, regardless of what Apeiron has told them. I mean, he looked pretty last legs at some points of that broadcast. I believe Bitch sees him as her Alpha, so I could totally see her racing there to help him regardless of what she had been up to previous. Alec would only show it someone was there to bully him into it, so probably not. Brian? Also doubtful, and who cares about Lisa at this point.
Taylor was in the middle of something, so danny is likely fine. Brian could be confused as to where his sister ran off to though. Lisa would be having a headache as she tried to process everything.
I think it would be entirely appropriate if Bakuda was handled by Chen offscreen.
That would be pretty anticlimactic tbh.
And hopefully at least some of the heroes besides poor Triumph used the publicly released info to help some of the trouble spots in the city, but you can be sure Kaiser and Coil took advantage of that as well.
Same, but I wonder what coil could manage to do, besides defend his territory.
I will say people are rightfully upset that Joe was not well prepared, but there is certainly some whinging involved lol.
 
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You simultaneously made one of the best chapters in any story i have read and one of the worst. The way you write and how you do it truly is great at this chapter in my opinion i thoroughly enjoyed reading . But at the same time it was a disappointment not just as a chapter but to the whole story and development going on in previous chapters the way things have gone this chapter make everything pointless Joe isn't even able to kill opponents with human level reaction times March is still alive when she should be 100 times deader than dead. the power ups the villains get so they contend with Joe just don't make sense It seems like you want to make her a recurring villain for the future and she just shouldn't be at least in my opinion. Worm has 1 thing in abundance.Villains. This could have been a moment of clarity and change for Joe for the better with her death at his hands it could show that march means pretty much nothing to the 1 million other problems that plague brockton / the world. In the i think that just this story isn't for me and a lot of other people that don't want a storie that always center on a single insignificant villain in the grand scheme of things when Joe is at level to contend with endbringers.Anyways thanks for the chapter and all the previous ones they really were great i hope to see what other stories you can bring to the paper because you obviously have a talent at writing!It just this type isn't for me i guess.
 
Great chapter but i think that if i don't see any type of payoff on the next two chapters i'm gonna drop this fic.
The few last chapters including this one had a huge word count and almost no progress at all i feel like we see thousands of words hyping joe tech and praising how awesome and advanced it is just for joe to be flashy and make no progress at all ,the plot armor and power creep of the villians defie common sense and break any sense of believability.
It honestly baffles me that this was the fic that in it's beginning i could read every word and now i can skip paragraphs without losing anything story wise
 
I'm at a computer now, so I'll chime in with a bit more analysis of why I didn't really like the chapter.

I think it all boils down to no longer being able to suspend my disbelief, and that happened at the first Oni lee fight. Essentially it didn't make sense or seem particularly plausible to me that Oni Lee could possibly be fighting and not getting pulped against Joe. This is a guy who got shot in canon by one of Coil's (normal human) mercenaries, and here he's going against a guy who can move fast enough that high framerate cameras struggle to keep up who also has divinely crafted lasers and who has pre-determined that he needs to kill Oni Lee. Joe isn't holding back. And yet somehow Oni Lee is faster than before, faster than he ever was in canon, because... reasons? You might say he's a teleporter, but he needs line of sight and you have to take into account the amount of time it takes people to actually perceive stuff. Normal people's reaction speeds are around 200-300 ms, that's the neurons detecting the input, the brain processing the input, and then outputting a response. Even if we're generous and assume Oni Lee's reactions are being boosted by his Shard, it is still implausible that he would even have time to perceive Joe's actions in time to actually decide to teleport away, and even if he did he doesn't have enough time to pick his spot to make sure the next location he can't be sniped with a laser, which are literally moving at the speed of light. And March isn't mentally controlling him, any instructions regarding timing from her need to be transmitted via speech, which takes more time than the instructions would be valid for. Oni Lee should be a rapidly expanding smear of blood.

Because of that break in my suspension of my disbelief, I essentially gave into what I've been suspecting for a while, which is that Lord is weighting the scales so much he's essentially sitting on them, and he appears to hold to the whole "Give Frodo a lightsaber, Sauron must have a Death Star" trope to levels unhealthy for the story. Also because of that break in my SOD, getting hit by multiple clones with March's striker power felt less like an organic extension of the story and more like the Author going "I need to hit him with March's power or it's not interesting, I need Oni Lee to do that, so it doesn't matter how disparate the match up Oni Lee will definitely survive until that moment." Except in that case, why have the prior Oni Lee battle at all? It would make far more sense to alpha strike Apeiron with the Oni Lee Striker attack than to risk Oni Lee getting killed before he could do it. Given that I felt Oni Lee realistically should already be chunky salsa on the floor by this point, the entire attack also then felt contrived.

Essentially I spent the entire chapter feeling like there was no tension and no real point reading, because I felt Lord was obviously committed to never actually killing his villains or letting Joe get any major victories even when it makes little sense for him not to win fairly handily. And indeed, even though Lung is probably dead, March, Oni Lee and Bakuda aren't, and they're the real threats Joe's been fighting for the past 400k words. It just drags.

On that note, the point I rolled my eyes at was the point where Joe talked about going after the person who hurt Garment and was a major threat and then decided to go after Lung, the person who wasn't directly responsible for any of the damage he and Garment had just received. March was the one who fucked Garment up, not Lung, and he knows how big a threat she is because he literally just thought about it. The moment was just too stupid for me to give it any respect.

Now you may say, like Image and I imagine Sterlyn, that I should just give up reading and stop bothering Lord with criticism. I'm sure Sterlyn will probably cross post this to discord like he does every post with criticism and then engage in chat about why my opinion is garbage, but I'm writing this because I really like the story and want it to be better. I do this because I love the story, which is why it hits so hard when it disappoints. I rarely post tbh, I certainly didn't post anything when I dropped Kill Them All because I felt it had jumped the shark, so this post does not come from a place of anger or disdain. It comes from a place of frustration that a story I think is absolutely great is becoming, in my opinion, less great.

My 2 cents anyway.
 
I'm worried about those mechenovsky particles, or what ever they're called, that got flung towards the city. They're going to interfere with communications aren't they? That has a whole host of complications. Also, Dragon noticing the nanomachines and (correctly) assumeing someone was in there using the to fix the mecha. That can be interpreted in many interesting ways.
My first response to the particles was "no PHO interlude? :("
 
While the fight scene was epic and really well written and properly tense, I just didn't like how hyper-competent Oni Lee was.
He's NOT that hard to bloody kill. Especially not against someone like Joe who should have wayyyy higher reactonary time and movement speed.
That's kinda the only thing that took away from that fight for me. Oni Lee shouldn't have survived a fight with Joe in full bloody regalia and powered by life-fibres to the point where he could surround him entirely. Don't forget that besides his powers of weird copy/teleportation Oni Lee is a baseline human.
Like ... bloody skitter was capable of fucking him up enough to the point where he had to flee with a busted leg, but Joe can't do shit? Lmao?
 
I still hope that March is dead. There would be a slightly disappointing lack of catharsis, but I think there could be something to be said about the raw anticlimax of death. It would be a very interesting thing to see Joe contend with.
Part of me still loves the thought of March & Coil joining forces though lol
While the fight scene was epic and really well written and properly tense, I just didn't like how hyper-competent Oni Lee was.
He's NOT that hard to bloody kill. Especially not against someone like Joe who should have wayyyy higher reactonary time and movement speed.
That's kinda the only thing that took away from that fight for me. Oni Lee shouldn't have survived a fight with Joe in full bloody regalia and powered by life-fibres to the point where he could surround him entirely. Don't forget that besides his powers of weird copy/teleportation Oni Lee is a baseline human.
Like ... bloody skitter was capable of fucking him up enough to the point where he had to flee with a busted leg, but Joe can't do shit? Lmao?
I think what helped him is that a lot of the bombers were clones, and that he could clone super-fast due to the sechen range called Joe. It was less hyper-compenetence and more hyper-cloning-speed
 
The sea was parting. Well, not literally, but there was a shockwave effect moving through it. I watched the wave mount as it approached the city, rising high enough to wash over the boardwalk and soak coastal areas of Downtown. Weirdly, the arrangement of Dust effects centered in the North Docks acted as a wave break, preventing the effects of the blast from reaching shore.

Hmm... Remember that his perks make every single action of his seem planned and well executed.

PRT!Govt Thinker: He clearly planned every moment of the fight! See how the wall was positioned exactly where there was a risk of flooding!

They risk stonings and harsh glances as they make their way to your abode, but by some alien measure it is worth it. Their slimy packages reveal amber of various colours, tiny unusual skulls and pocket change from ancient cities
Those amber eyed Devils have taken a shine to you. From their Westernmost halls, to the Brass Embassy on Ladybones, there's not a tempter who doesn't know you. Their gifts include nevercooling brass, poisonous wine, masquerade invites, chemicals, and a few bottled souls that strayed away from the archives

This perk is more interesting than it initially appears. It seems implied by the lovecraftian friendship perk that they would actually walk through the city to deliver said gifts.

That would be interesting if one day Brockton Bay sees Cthuluhumanoid creatures as well as posh looking humans with amber eyes walking towards Apeiron bearing gifts.
C53s would be confused.

In a less humurous note they give Apeiron access to exotic reagents (Souls/quasimagical ingredients) as well as contacts with the "Flukes" and "Hell" respectively.

I'm worried about those mechenovsky particles, or what ever they're called, that got flung towards the city. They're going to interfere with communications aren't they? That has a whole host of complications. Also, Dragon noticing the nanomachines and (correctly) assumeing someone was in there using the to fix the mecha. That can be interpreted in many interesting ways.

Yeah they would be a problem as they have a tendency to stay in the area for a prolonged period of time and Joe would be resting for a couple of days now that there is no imminent threat to the city.
 
I can't suspend my disbelief anymore that March is a credible threat to Apeiron anymore.

And it's something a lot of other people share, it seems.

I don't think I'd find any more appearances by her enjoyable.
 
Right, so handwavy power-scaling bullshit.

The Protectorate should have their teams spar against Joe and a week later they'll have dozens of Triumvirate tier capes.
not really. Shards may gift and push suggestion on their capes to interact with Joes juicy juicy data, but they haven't really shown a massive increase in their abilities. this is still mainly their standard power +1, and the bulshit that happens when you have several compatible powers that bounce of each other. Canon bakuda+ Lee could pretty much hold the city. With march, they make less dumb decisions, and get much more out of their already immense compatibility. Lung scale to perceived threat. Apeiron is huge threat, and March made sure to time fights in the background to maximize his growth befor reveal.

Lees Marchbombcage is clearly a timing trained thing.

And i always thought March had at least a minor shaker/master effect, or her timing would not really work for anyone but her, as people make mistakes to her perfect clockwork.

Now, you could argue that the PRT ought to shuffle around their heros for to put them in similar compatibility bosting teams, but that is another thing entirely.

tldr: Interacting with joe gives your power a +1. Having +1 on many parts of an equation before adding multipliers make +1 a much bigger number.
 
All these comments and no one pointed out one crucial detail

Joe really loves his peaches of mind:
A philosophy of peach with power to back up its principles.

Edit. Also is March alive?
I did not seen any confirmations of her survival in this chapter, even after re-reading the moment of joe's "revival" a couple of times(Gods, someone who looks like the dead man walking just come close and personal to you and the next thing you know is PAIN. That some Dead Space shit. LOVE IT.). But i saw a lot of complaints about her survival, soooo... I confused. Again.

The story of me being in this thread becomes the story of constant confusion.
 
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His tinkertech dissapears though.

That's the thing. There's so many things going on with his powers that it's easy to forget stuff.
Well damn, I completely forgot about that - good point.

Hopefully the thinker-gained knowledge fades in some way too. Our dear Lexie, for example, may actually be able to become a tinker if she spends enough time with Joe.

Edit: Actually - why the hell isn't she leading a tech revolution? She has the ability and resources to be a scaled down Tony Stark.
 
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After chapters of stressing about March he just stood there watching his duplicate fighting lung while he narrated the fight before joining them and letting her off with some broken ribs instead of just using his super speed to turn her into pulp Before engaging lung. I'm not sure how the sheer power of his blow failed to splatter her into red mist, really that girl has about as much plot armor as him...

Not to mention the trove of tinkertech that was just left out in the bay ready for plunder in the form of his motoroid, I guess the villains needed an easy explainable source for their next power ups, hopefully Bakuda gets her hands on his work. I can hardly wait to read a few thousand words of him describing how terrifying her work is now that she had access to the culmination of his work at that point In time.

As for Oni Lee this must be his most powerful incarnation in worm fanfiction without a doubt. Duplicating tinkertech is one thing, duplicating that sting effect is another completely.
 
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Man, you just gotta love autocorrupt! It's such a useful feature, all tech should have it!
Unfortunately, they all do have it.

As for Oni Lee this must be his most powerful incarnation in worm fanfiction without a doubt. Duplicating tinkertech is one thing, duplicating that sting effect is another completely.
As for this, I think he's duplicating the targeting array, not the actual Sting effect. Remember, March's Striker power is a timed explosion, and it's the explosion part that is actually multidimensional, not the marker. It's like March marked multiple targets simultaneously, not her single attack becoming multiple. In that case, he's not actually duplicating the Sting effect - it's the equivalent of the Sting shard going:

Sting: "Okay, marker set! Exploding in 3... 2..."
Oni Lee: *duplicates marker into dozens*
Sting: "Huh, that's strange. Suddenly there are a lot of targets. Oh well, time to explode them all I guess!"
multiple multidimensional booms

Edit: In retrospect, it's not too different to duplicating Bakuda's Tinkertech bombs. In general, most Tinkertech are also just targeting arrays for a variety of multidimensional effects that is actually how they "work" in canon.
 
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Well, I, for one, enjoyed this chapter immensely. As long as March is actually dead, I dare say that this is the best chapter of this entire fic. Parahumans are powered by interdimensional alien supercomputers that can basically do anything. The only real limit to their powers is if their Shards allow them to do something. Of course, the 'theme' decided upon their trigger holds true. But Oni-Lee and Marsh combining their powers? Could they do that before? Maybe, maybe not, but that's irrelevant because their Shards decided they needed that ability to fight Apeiron. Likewise Oni-Lee's Shard decided he would be able to set up a series of teleports and clones basically instantly because that was what he needed against this OCP that provides such wonderful data. So OF COURSE they can do those things, it just makes sense. Could Lung fly and become a mini-sun of fire and destruction in such a short time? Maybe not before, but he certainly can now. It makes sense, and shows that no matter who Joe is up against, their Shards will escalate to the highest level they possibly can just to eak out that little bit of extra data. The thread is honestly starting to nitpick at this point; I understand the frustration of not having the OP protagonist curbstomp the ABB, but this epic battle is everything I could have wanted. The fact that Lord decided to drop this novella on us for free is something I'm grateful for. Constructive criticism is one thing, but people shouldn't winge when they are literally getting more than their money's worth.
 
As for Oni Lee this must be his most powerful incarnation in worm fanfiction without a doubt. Duplicating tinkertech is one thing, duplicating that sting effect is another completely.
I agree with the critique of some of the supercompetence he showed off, but copying sting was likely an effect of the Sechen Range named Jozef Duris.
 
I agree with the critique of some of the supercompetence he showed off, but copying sting was likely an effect of the Sechen Range named Jozef Duris.
Honestly, I'm more surprised that Oni Lee got away with frigging Sting on a timer slapped on his body and actually managed to get the "bomb" off of himself before he died at the end of those duplication runs. Sure, he has practice with grenades and with his base squishiness Sting is just as dangerous as the grenades to him, as well as March's help to time her own power, but that's just terrifying in retrospect.
 
I really like this story, and the chapter was fun to read, but I'm gonna have to echo a lot of people that it wasn't really satisfying after you come down from the "he's doing cool stuff hype hype hype" feeling and actually think about what was accomplished. It very much isn't the win against the ABB that it should have been, because honestly we never really cared about Lung. The required suspension of disbelief that the antagonists keep pulling out Deux Ex Machina over and over again to keep up with his power creep reduces the enjoyment of the story. Part of the problem is that in your writing you spend so much time talking about how amazing every increase in his tech is, and how revelatory every single new power is (or it feels like that anyway) and then Joe can't defeat what are effectively baseline humans with one special trick. That writing style isn't bad, actually, as I like reading you geek out over tech, but it's cheapened when those increases don't actually make a difference. Once he was supercharged on Tetra, the Oni Lee fight shouldn't even have been difficult, because while Oni Lee can teleport with a reaction, he only has baseline human speed reactions, and is exceeded tremendously by Joe. This is made more ridiculous by him still being a problem after several power-ups mid-chapter. At the end of it all, then, we have March dubiously maimed, Oni Lee injured somehow but escaped, Bakuda completely in the wind (without her main lab, admittedly), and the threat of the deadman's switch still out there. Worse, none of them are satisfying enemies anymore - they've lost, and lost so badly that their survival feels like authorial fiat. I'm not really interested in reading more about Joe's conflicts with them. I totally will, because I enjoy this story tremendously, but they're no longer interesting.

That said, there were some really excellent parts to the chapter. Saving Chen was well-written, thoughtful, and was satisfying. The trick from March and Oni Lee - that was clever, and something that I didn't see coming or even think about, much like Joe. It was a sensible and tricky way for them to use their actual demonstrated powers that completely blindsided him without feeling like author intervention of Deus Ex Machina shenanigans. The fight with Lung was also really, really fun to read, though honestly if he wanted Lung dead he could have just used FMA Alchemy to transmute him into something else and one-shot him. Granted, that's probably too squicky for him, but just a thought.

For advice? Something I heard Brandon Sanderson talk about at convention comes to mind. The gist of his thoughts were that as a writer, if you come up with a cool thing that you're excited about, it's better to have it happen than to be worried you won't have a good idea afterwards, or to try to save it or extend it past relevance. Here, it feels like we were built up to this amazing climax of this story arc, when he would finally deal with the problems he'd been addressing, and instead he blatantly fails to solve any of them and instead tackles something else different. The story will still be interesting once the ABB arc is over, but I think you really need to let it end rather than dragging it on further. Consider that at this point in the story it really shouldn't be about him not being powerful enough anymore (except v. Endbringers and Scion) but rather about the use of that overwhelming power. The story is no longer Batman with his gadgets, but Superman, who has to tread carefully for all his power, but can win nearly any fight instantaneously.
 
Lord has shown in the down time character interaction chapters that he has the capability to be an amazing author.

The tinkering chapters are over long and repetitive but could be okay if they actually lead to anything but they don't.
At a certain point his gear being divinely crafted Epic Tier super-enchanted Iron Man level awesomesauce++ makes the idea of any parahuman being a threat at all completely laughable. So they get magical authorial fiat power ups just by being near him (or from "Timing"), which personally I find extremely unsatisfying.

The Celestial Forge, like Supreme Commander, is setting breaking levels of overpowered. So... let it break and write about the consequences of that or give your MC something less OP.

From what I consider the good parts of this fic, I think Lord could write the hell out of story where the world and Joe has to adapt to him being the proverbial 8000 pound gorilla.
 
Honestly, I'm more surprised that Oni Lee got away with frigging Sting on a timer slapped on his body and actually managed to get the "bomb" off of himself before he died at the end of those duplication runs. Sure, he has practice with grenades and with his base squishiness Sting is just as dangerous as the grenades to him, as well as March's help to time her own power, but that's just terrifying in retrospect.
He would have barely had time to get rid of it. I think it would have been a better narrative choice if he was doing it as a hail-marry/kamikaze attack, or at least lost his arm due to the attack, the plan being he would get to Bakuda, who would heal him with a cancer bomb, and then he'd return.
 
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