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Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

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Ryune said:
But surgery wouldn't be involved? He would just need to sit down with his neural interface and program them through nanite control. Then he could grow some cybernetics as needed. He currently only has on/off for them with an easy amount of concentration. Anything other than that requires significant focus.
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I was thinking along the lines that nanites and cybernetics were distinctly different things as was implied, since he couln't fix cybernetics with nanites, he wouldn't be able to 'grow' them either.

And if he could control nanites to that degree (and if they could do that), what would be point of discrete structures? He would just be able to do what he needs to do temporarily and let it fall apart into availble nanite pool again. Besides at that point what kind of cybernetics would even be useful?
 
LollipoPReapeR said:
I was thinking along the lines that nanites and cybernetics were distinctly different things as was implied, since he couln't fix cybernetics with nanites, he wouldn't be able to 'grow' them either.
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The whole point of the nanite forge was that he could use them to manipulate matter. I don't see how that doesn't directly translate to growing cybernetics.

And if he could control nanites to that degree (and if they could do that), what would be point of discrete structures? He would just be able to do what he needs to do temporarily and let it fall apart into availble nanite pool again. Besides at that point what kind of cybernetics would even be useful?
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Right so we have a variety of uses in this particular case. He has physical power and defense covered by perks. So the best avenue for actual cybernetic enhancements fall into two main categories: Communications/networking and sensory enhancement.

For communications we have things ranging from a neural lace that any of the subsequent cybernetics would use to communicate with him to being able to pick up and decode radio without needing external tools. This would also cover having actual physical ports for secure communication with things like armor systems. I imagine he would be a whole lot more use out of his omni-tool's sensors if he could pipe the raw information and what was extrapolated by his AIs directly into his brain rather than needing to take it in from the screen.

Sensory enhancement would be harder to implement but could be much more useful. The ability to have effective eyes in the back of your head is alwaysa great advantage. Evidence being Taylor's unparalleled battlefield awareness. If he can set up a variety of sensors and pipe them directly into his mind he can get a much better idea of his surroundings than he would get if he had a HUD with dozens of widgets on it. That doesn't even take into account things like more basic enhancements like low-light enhancements and protection against things like flashbangs.

Now, I'll admit that a lot of this stuff can be taken care of by having a great set of power armor with an AI copilot but the sheer amount of control required to get the most out of power armor requires ether extensive training or the advantages of having a direct neural connection.

On top of that, the sensory and comms enhancements are things he would likely want to have on hand 24/7. I have enough trouble adjusting between wearing glasses and taking them off myself to not see the problems of having a 360 degree awareness being reduced back to just what I can see with my eyes.
 
I completely agree with the nanoforge point. What I am unsure of is if the MC has a proper understanding of the cybernetics to plan and build his own.

Since MC has a omnitool, I find building a interface into the body is a bit dangerous with Tinkers waving dangerous stuff everywhere even if the risk is really low. The senses will be auto upgraded along with his body, but along with a good helmet + a few mini drones and his upcoming AI, most of these would be redundant.

Taylor's battlefield awareness only works because of QA and its multitasking. The MC would have to rely on an AI to do this anyway so not much point in giving it access to cybernetics except maybe as a HUD. Actually speaking of, if most of these 'uses' can be distilled down to a smart contact lens, it would be just as useful.
 
LollipoPReapeR said:
I completely agree with the nanoforge point. What I am unsure of is if the MC has a proper understanding of the cybernetics to plan and build his own.

Since MC has a omnitool, I find building a interface into the body is a bit dangerous with Tinkers waving dangerous stuff everywhere even if the risk is really low. The senses will be auto upgraded along with his body, but along with a good helmet + a few mini drones and his upcoming AI, most of these would be redundant.

Taylor's battlefield awareness only works because of QA and its multitasking. The MC would have to rely on an AI to do this anyway so not much point in giving it access to cybernetics except maybe as a HUD. Actually speaking of, if most of these 'uses' can be distilled down to a smart contact lens, it would be just as useful.
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The ever present problem with information gathering technology is just how much information can be transferred. When using a visual medium you only have so much visual realestate before your HUD starts interfering with simple things like walking. On top of that is just how dense you can make the information. Take an mini-map for instance. You can create a 2D map but things light the height of an enemy would have to be guessed at. You can figure out a multi-level map of a building but need to take each floor one at a time and then remember each floor's map to get a picture of the whole.

On the other hand, you can have the computer in your head pipe the information into the parts of your brain responsible for spacial reasoning and just know the map of the building. With the ability granted by the neural interface and Master Builder he doesn't even need to spend copious amounts of time learning his new augments because he can just compile and install interface drivers right into his brain.

That said, I don't really expect him to jump straight into something like direct computer interfacing for him. I'd honestly be happy if he did something small like using the nanomachines to reshape his eyes for better than 2020 vision or something.

And there are alternatives to direct neural interfacing. Stuff like instead of having a local mini-map on his hud he could use headphones and sound localization to give him a general idea about the area around him or at least track enemies. Data visualization isn't the only method of getting information intot he head after all. Aural queues are woefully underused and with the ability to basically just install new software in his head he could conceivably create a codec and encode information about the environment to be pipped into his ears.

Of course, he could use the same technique to put something like a QR code into a hud that provides a similar function as well. The biggest problem is information density here so QR codes or something like them that he can read to get a good idea of the area outside of his visual range could be ideal.


Admittedly, doing that might end up with him having a screen in front of his face that looks more like he's playing nethack than actually looking at the world around him but it might be able to convey a wider and more accurate vision of the world around him.
 
Idoneior said:
I'd just like to say that I had a very different reaction. The whole section describing changes to the workshop was very amusing for me to read, probably because it focused more on the reactions of the MC and other characters than on dry exposition.
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Which is fine, but having him getting more powers before any actual plot happens isn't interesting to me. So, if the threshold was higher, maybe the Author could both write the lengthy descriptions and have plot before new power.

Trek said:
The threshold is quite right, it only feels fast because of how many words each chapter is. If it becomes slower it would suck as real-life time between new powers could be multiple weeks, completely ruining an entire aspect of the story.
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I don't agree. At all. Proof? This chapter. Not even a couple hours of in-character time, and he got 300points. Given that no days are currently being skipped, it's very easy to gain power. In fact, if you count from the start of the day until now, he probably got, like, 1000~2000 points within a day.

But that's not my actual point anyways. I don't like the character being rewarded when he does nothing besides getting to know what new tools he has.
 
Milpy said:
I don't agree. At all. Proof? This chapter. Not even a couple hours of in-character time, and he got 300points. Given that no days are currently being skipped, it's very easy to gain power. In fact, if you count from the start of the day until now, he probably got, like, 1000~2000 points within a day.

But that's not my actual point anyways. I don't like the character being rewarded when he does nothing besides getting to know what new tools he has.
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Except for that fact that all the stuff in this chapter is basically catching up on all the powers that were skimmed over and not gone over in the bomb fight fiasco. So while this chapter may feel full of it its not the norm. This is the reward for the grueling shitfest of the bomb tinker fight not for checking his equipment out, quite literally too as the entire additions to the WH are all from perks gotten during the fight and then skimmed over in a paragraph or two.

This fic has always had small time stretches in a lot of words, all the way back from chapter 1 to now, its quite fast-paced, in just a few days of in story time so many major events have happened. And its deeply needed too as mc is lacking a ton of defences he needs like precog, mind control, scanning etc. In a week max if he doesn't have all those defenses up he is dead or worse by endbringer or scion. Mc knows his anti precog strat can only stretch so much so he needs everything he can to prep for the coming days. He also has to prep for S9 in a week and then even stronger orgs like Cauldron and then scion in the coming weeks/months. He has to gain powers this fast as otherwise he would be dead in a week or two.
 
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I'm curious to see how the conversation will go when Joe meets the Undersiders again. Other than them owing him a fortune, I think Tattletale just can't hold back her questions anymore, and I'm sure the Undersiders are curious about Joe too. Plus, it would be hard to lie with Tattletale doing her best to read him, he could probably give some vague specialty like "Matter tinker" which is what Coil thought, but even then I see them doubting.
 
I just want to see him use his runes more, can he engrave his clothes for example? that would be quite the boost for working what to him would barely be a second.
 
This last chapter was great, but I REALLY wanna see PRT asking for Joe to heal/help them, as well as more of what's going on in people's minds in Brockton.
 
Great chapter. Liked the addendum and idea of addendum's in general.

Hoping this means we might actually get to see Taylor contact Miss Militia for once. Seeing Armsmaster get what's coming to him and the drama of the Wards having to deal with Taylor sounds awesome.

Skull probes are as adorable as always.
 
All the tinker talk and munchkining continues to go over my head.

On the other hand,the character interactions continue to be amazing and the best part of the fic for me.

Just wanted to say i really love this story!
 
bigreader said:
man this guy needs a whole team of girl genius style minions just to find and use his stuff efficiently in his Warehouse
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Well, there is always the option of building a bunch of robots to do an overhaul of the whole place. Set up internal networks and Factorio the shit out of the place.

...Is Factorio a part of the celestial forge? I feel like it totally should be.
 
Ryune said:
Well, there is always the option of building a bunch of robots to do an overhaul of the whole place.
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That's something that he can only do now because of his workshop previous space limits.
Right now he needs to chug those duplication potions like there's no tomorrow and go on a crafting binge.
 
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talks about he isn't going to be able to make celestial bronze anytime soon, not like he has an active vulcano or water from lethe.

Gains Skyforge, a forge powered by magic active volcano (magic lavapool ontop of a mountain... yeah it's a volcano)...

Gains upgrade to alchemy

What was the alchemy required for water of lethe now? should be easier than cybertronium, right? because a manton limited blade sounds like something he would very much like to have...

Or can celestial bronce ONLY be forged in etna? if so, how did anyone from halfblood gain any, if it required tactic permission directly from Hephaestus, as you would essentially have to forge it on in his forge or just outside of it... not to mention travel from the us to Italy... hell, that rebellion would have been soo doomed, when only one side can forge new weapons and arrows.

other-vice, endbringer "blood" should be nice crafting component for his eventual bone steel weapons for endbringer fights.

since he really only needs to sell a single tinkertech piece to found himself for several months now, he should probably start charging in rare supplies, like endbringer blood and pieces, or old tinkertech from people with access...


Edit: For the cyber discussion. he should not replace anything, any risk clearly outweigh the benefits. Especially since redundant organs are a way better way to go. Less scary, keep the liver, but clamp in a new tinkertech kidney and liver. add a second heart clamped onto a major bloodvessel. don't replace the bones, but line them with cybernetics. layer cyber-muscles with normal muscles. if they are damaged, you still have your biology fully funktional, and you gain some of the benefits of being a cyborg. and as some people say, odds are that he should be able to repair the cybernetics with nanobots anyway. The way of the spacemarine friend, redundant organs for the win.
 
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he can also key the robots to the neural interface chair so he can do it him self to keep all them perks active he has the perk to control to to 10 robots and his AI like nature while connected to the neural interface
 
shypunk said:
he can also key the robots to the neural interface chair so he can do it him self to keep all them perks active he has the perk to control to to 10 robots and his AI like nature while connected to the neural interface
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Now that's a good idea, hook up some robot suits, sit in the chair and do stuff through them.
 
well sir lollipo he does have a cloning lab/factory so he would have i guess less sqweeky about it it will still be cyberzombies tho
 
Ryune said:
Well, there is always the option of building a bunch of robots to do an overhaul of the whole place. Set up internal networks and Factorio the shit out of the place.

...Is Factorio a part of the celestial forge? I feel like it totally should be.
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It not, nor is it a part of the revised one, but I am going to add the perks in now for the revised list. There a lot of perks from it that would be useful, and the capstone are rather insane.

600cp - Tech tree
Science is a messy process, requiring the study of dozens of disparate phenomena, looking for patterns, finding ways to use that information to build stuff that incorporates what you've learned, and then mashing it all together to get an 'invention.' Now you can take some of the guesswork out of it. When you desire to build something, you know just what you need to study to make that thing a reality. Want to get a rocket into orbit? Well, now you know what things contribute to rocketry, what kinds of math you must refine to get the equations you'll need answered, and what kinds of materials you should be experimenting with. If you are completely lacking knowledge of a particular field of study, then you'll know how to use what you do have to get where you need. Keep in mind that it may take you a very, very, long time to create new fields of SCIENCE entirely on your own


Basically from this perk alone. If you want to do X, you know what you have to do to get to X. Meaning you want an FTL engine but only know how to sharpen wooden sticks? This will direct you to everything you need to build one eventually.

It basically a Path to Victory on just gaining Technology X. Knowing exactly what you next step is, no matter how insane the thing you want to build would be.
 
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