- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
The hell? the man worshiped the ground she walked on why the ever living hell would he not read something she left behind?
Advice and Trust [NGE]
Turing Decidable
𝕘𝕒𝕣𝕗
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He/Him
'Him' being Shinji.
Seihai-kun
[Unverified Wish Granting Device]
- Location
- Brasil
Remember that Kaji is also working for the Japanese government to get spy on both SEELE and NERV, and it was mentioned in A&T that Misato and Kaji have the contacts and means to take down SEELE.
About Yui, in A&T she left notes and letters for Shinji and Gendo about her plans, about why she choose to go inside the giant robot, about what to do to take down SEELE, and she told Fuyutsuki about it. Gendo proceeded to ignore it and destroyed it all. He probably didn't even open them thinking it was just a standard suicide letter.
In canon, we don't know if she left letters, but she did tell Fuyutsuki, who then proceeded to not tell Gendo, or tried to tell Gendo but was ignored.
About Yui, in A&T she left notes and letters for Shinji and Gendo about her plans, about why she choose to go inside the giant robot, about what to do to take down SEELE, and she told Fuyutsuki about it. Gendo proceeded to ignore it and destroyed it all. He probably didn't even open them thinking it was just a standard suicide letter.
In canon, we don't know if she left letters, but she did tell Fuyutsuki, who then proceeded to not tell Gendo, or tried to tell Gendo but was ignored.
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- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
once again, why the hell would Gendo destroy the directions that would be able to further his goals of getting his wife back?
Turing Decidable
𝕘𝕒𝕣𝕗
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He/Him
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
When he visits Yui's 'grave' with Shinji, he says he keeps the most important things "close to his heart" or something like that. He himself probably couldn't say why.
Maybe Yui's plan did not include getting her out of Unit-01? In such a case I can see Gendo deciding to make his own scenario for the express purpose of getting his wife out of the Eva, no matter the cost to everyone else.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
... but if the worlds most powerful group wants her dead why hasn't he done anything that might take it out? I mean your basically saying Gendo the better parent because he did everything in his power to not turn his son into a child soldier until he had no choice.
- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
Not quite. Shinji was never supposed to be a Pilot. The messages and things Yui left were to explain herself to Gendo and Shinji, not to prepare him as a Pilot. Gendo destroyed all of them, as he did with all pictures of Yui in canon. That's what has Shinji so angry: Gendo destroyed what should have been Shinji's last link to his mother, and all the comfort or reassurance letters or videos of her could have given him.
Shinji wasn't supposed to have a role at all. That was Rei's job. Then she had her accident with Unit-00 and Shinji was called in at the literal last minute as an emergency backup, and kept on because as much as he hated it, he was a naturally good Pilot. Because he had no role in the Scenario, Gendo just dumped Shinji with his tutor and walked away, probably never intending to see him again except for the once-a-year visits at Yui's gravesite. Pick your poison as to whether Gendo sent him away out of fear (Series) or jealousy (Manga).
Kaworu is (when he lets himself go full Tabris) an Adamite Angel with conscious control over a functioning S2 Organ and the soul of Adam himself, so yes, he has ridiculously strong powers if he lets himself go. He really doesn't want to, since the more he lets himself be Tabris, the stronger the Call is.
Kaworu: "Rei! Rei! We must become one, to fight SEELE! Become one with me!"
Rei: ".....not sure if I want to kiss him or punch his head off."
Asuka: "Well, that's certainly an original 'we need to have sex!' line..."
Gendo read them, then destroyed them. (Or at least claimed to.) He just didn't share any of the ones that were supposed to go to Shinji.
The Series doesn't say, but the Manga has Fuyutsuki make it explicit that he didn't tell Gendo anything about Yui's telling him ahead of time, and specifically he does this as a 'fuck you' to Gendo. Guess he was still sore Yui picked Gendo and not him.
Shinji asks if he really destroyed every picture of Yui, and Gendo confirms it. And yeah, I'm not sure Gendo could articulate why, beyond 'It hurt.'
- Location
- The Midlands.
Because it hurt too much to even look at them?
SeaSirocco
Formerly 'Sanae Aran' / Aspiring Artist
- Location
- The Seaside
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I wonder whether Fuyutsuki has any photos of Yui, and if so, be willing to let Shinji look at them?
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
... and my suspension of believe is broken, there is no way Gendo would destroy a message left to him from his wife ever, because once again Gendo worships the ground she walks on might he destroyed the message for his son possibly, and considering the only 'Change' to cannon was suppose to be the
A. advice given to Shinji from 'Misato'
B. the kiss went differently
Also she put herself into the core of an Evangelion, which due to the fact she was both a head scientist and a (former)member of the Steele means she full well dam knew her son would get place in it as it's driver, so short of the message to Gendo from Yui being something like
"Dear buddybear
I have decided to leave Steele because they want me dead. due to the fact that I no longer am willing to do what they want I will be frank, I never loved you I did everything with you because I was under orders sleep with your heartless body because for some reason they think you to be useful
. Now I can wish that you will go to hell as you deserve for the crims you willingly sought out to commit of your own free will.Your ever hateful Wife
Yui"
And if it was I would not blame him for burning any other messages without reading them, but without it? He'd still have them.
Matt R
Giant Robot Pilot
- Location
- North Dakota
Ah; definitely a sound reason to hold back, barring truly grave circumstances -- I guess he'd have to trust Rei to either talk him down, or take him down in the aftermath of such an event. Given that, in such a case, Kaworu's Call would lead him straight to Lilith, where Rei is even stronger than him judging from Episode 24, she has good odds of pulling it off...
Asuka: Rei, it's dangerous to go alone! Take this!
Rei: Wait, is this...
Asuka: The sacred Paper Fan of Wayward Boyfriend Correction? You bet it is!
Shinji: It's from my Mom's old things; I think it's the very one she used on Gendo when they were dating.
Rei: ...Thank you. I will wield it with pride!
Ritsuko: Take the high-speed bypass lift; like an idiot, Kaworu's going right down the main shaft, battering open every door along the way. You'll be able to cut him off...
Kaworu: Wait, this is... Lilith?!? And in front of her... ohhhh, boy...
Rei: <slowly, repeatedly, smacking the fan into her open palm, a look of anything-but-amusement on her face>...Hello, Trout...
Kaworu: ...
Kaworu: ...
Kaworu: ...
Kaworu: ...Have I told you you're cute when you're angry? Your face just lights up, li-
<BAM!!!>
Here's one: would telling Kaworu that the Progenitor he's been tracking is actually Lilith, and thus of no use to him, affect how he felt the Call? It seemed to jar him out of his state of mind in the series, at least. Would knowing in advance that what he's seeing is a decoy, and the real thing is hidden where he can't discern its light, dial back the intensity of the Call, or just enable him to tune out Lilith and find Adam for real?
Heh. To be fair, I was thinking more along the lines of dual-synching in Unit-00 (Rei can synch because of her soul fragment, Kaworu can synch because it's Adam tissue -- presumably the only EVA they can both link to at once) and taking it down to Terminal Dogma for proximity to Lilith, using Kaworu's ability to set his synch ratio at will to prevent it from turning into a full Forbidden Union... more like a Marginally Frowned Upon Union.
Although I could see it turning out like the last scene in Martian Successor Nadesico, where they have to kiss to complete the connection :lol
If I recall correctly, in Rebuild he did.
Twailaith
Bear surfing a shark. At sufficient velocity.
... and my suspension of believe is broken, there is no way Gendo would destroy a message left to him from his wife ever, because once again Gendo worships the ground she walks on might he destroyed the message for his son possibly, and considering the only 'Change' to cannon was suppose to be the
A. advice given to Shinji from 'Misato'
B. the kiss went differently
Also she put herself into the core of an Evangelion, which due to the fact she was both a head scientist and a (former)member of the Steele means she full well dam knew her son would get place in it as it's driver, so short of the message to Gendo from Yui being something like
"Dear buddybear
I have decided to leave Steele because they want me dead. due to the fact that I no longer am willing to do what they want I will be frank, I never loved you I did everything with you because I was under orders sleep with your heartless body because for some reason they think you to be useful
Your ever hateful Wife
Yui"
And if it was I would not blame him for burning any other messages without reading them, but without it? He'd still have them.
You're assuming that A: Yui isn't a manipulative bitch. She kinda is.
And B: That Gendo isn't a creepy obsessive yandere husbando.
This is the guy who hates his own son for the crime of being loved by his mother. Burning her letters and pictures in a vain attempt to keep her to himself is completely in Gendo's character.
Remember: Yui Ikari is not a good person.
She's not trying to stop SEELE's instrumentality out of empathy or ideals about free will and individuality. She saw their endgame, decided she didn't like it, and planned *her* own version of instrumentality, where *her* son gets to decide the fate of the human race.
In the end, everyone get turned into soup.
Cae Lumis
Chief Director of Shinra Archaeology Department
- Location
- Southern New Jersey
Well, that all depends on Fuyutsuki, really. In my research, I've come the the conclusion that although the good doctor holds no hatred for Shinji Ikari, there might be a case for resentment. Otherwise, why does he turn a blind eye to when Gendo acts his worse around Shinji? Or, why does he follow Gendo's ideas and orders to the T, up to the point of showing Shinji Ikari pictures of his mother in Rebuild... just to provoke Shinji to following through with Gendo's plan? Simple really, and the answer is practically spelled out in End of Evangelion and the franchise as a whole: Fuyutsuki wanted Yui, his student, for himself and was jealous of Gendo for becoming her husband. Is it rational? No, but then again, hardly anyone at NERV can be considered the pinnacle of rationality.
Now, back to Fuyutsuki showing Shinji a picture of Yui... we really have a limited range of reasons of why Fuyutsuki would do such a thing.
1) He has more of a clue or idea of how close Shinji and Asuka are compared to Gendo, and is taking the initiative of manipulating Shinji to aiding Gendo's plan... though I consider this route highly unlikely.
2) He has second thoughts on the scenario, perhaps a nightmare of Yui condemning Fuyutsuki for completely ignoring the reason for her sacrifice and allowing Gendo to put her son through such hell, and decides in an act of remorse to give something... anything to Shinji. I find this route far more likely... though I'll admit I do have an invested reason for why I support this option... so take it however you will.
In short, there has to be a specific reason why Fuyutsuki would decide so late into the scenario to put the brakes on the plan and deviate in such a way that Gendo's plan could easily fall apart by revealing the face of Shinji's own mother.... and by logic that ensues realize that Rei is a clone of his mother.
Now.... speaking of Yui Ikari....
I have made mention countless times why I believe the idea of Yui Ikari being villainous... not virtuous but flawed is incorrect... so I'll instead sum up by announcing something new from the English Translation of the Evangelion Chronicles. At no point does it suggest that Yui's intentions were insincere or dubious, and instead notes something rather interesting about her motivations (capitals, bold and underline added by me):
"Yui's greatest wish was for there to be an eternal mark in history to stand as evidence of mankind's existence. Prior to her disappearance during the contact experiment involving Unit-01, Yui told her son Shinji that she was going to show him a brighter future. Since the Human Instrumentality Project was proposed AFTER her death, there was no way for Yui to have known about the details of that particular plan. Still, it is thought that wish was fulfilled when she, now one with EVA-01, departed Earth and ascended into the eternity of Outer Space. One can only imagine what the presence of her husband and son meant to Yui as she left for her solitary journey."
Under the caption of her picture from EOE, the text adds,
"When Shinji made the decision to return to a world where others existed, Yui saw him off with a loving smile on her face before leaving with EVA-01 to grant her own wish."
Although I question the book about the timeline of when the Project began, or what counts as the Project as far as Gainax/ Khara is concerned... the fact that nowhere in the book does it damn Yui for her behavior, and lays most of the blame for Shinji's mistreatment on Gendo is telling.
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- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
Why would she know that? Shinji was brought back as a last minute backup only because Rei was hurt. He wasn't supposed to be involved at all. If Rei hadn't been nearly killed by Unit-00 berserking, Shinji wouldn't have even come in. Yui might have known Shinji was able to Pilot due to the mother-child link, but in that case why not train him for the next 10 years like Asuka?
Hmm... That's and interesting bit, Cae Lumis. If SEELE didn't decide on the HIP until after Yui's Contact Experiment, what did Yui actually have? A different version of 'Tang Everyone'? Or did they just not start calling it the HIP until then? SEELE was certainly up to something: You don't blow up half the world just to see what happens.
Cae Lumis
Chief Director of Shinra Archaeology Department
- Location
- Southern New Jersey
My suspicion is more along the lines of Yui not knowing the full details of how Instrumentality will work. Remember, the Dead Sea Scrolls offer only a vague outline of the steps SEELE needs to do in order to fulfill the prerequisites needed to trigger Third Impact... and the Classified Information confirms SEELE is rather biased in the interpretation of the manual to begin with. What I believe would gel most between the Classified Informations revelations that Yui is the daughter of a SEELE member and yet had no knowledge of how SEELE exactly plans to move forward beyond general outline and idea of the tools needed... is that she was manipulated to a degree by SEELE.
Basically imagine SEELE doing onto her, what Gendo often does to Shinji to get Yui to play ball. Damn... now I'm reminded of something....
Tiffany Grant and Yūko Miyamura (I spoke to Tiffany Grant back in January at Kotorikon in New Jersey) both agree that Kyoko Zeppelin Soryu didn't commit suicide, because the timing between Asuka being notified that she's the pilot of Unit-02 and her death... coincided too damn well. Instead, the two of them believe that Kyoko was murdered in order to give Unit-02 a complete soul, allowing for Asuka to better pilot it. Given the fact that Yui feared for her life (due to knowing of SEELE's hitmen) and rushed to enter the contact experiment... which conveniently gave a soul to Unit-01... the Evangelion Chronicles might've given some weight to the voice actresses theory on what happened. Which also ironically points further to Rebuild changing the Background story further with motivations... funny, huh.
Even without the idea that SEELE manipulated Yui into becoming the ready and willing soul of Unit-01, we do have plenty of prior instances in the show of SEELE not revealing the full dangers of something (Second Contact), Gendo stringing Shinji along through emotional and situational manipulation countless times, and NERV's shadiness in general to at least suggest that perhaps SEELE wouldn't even trust their own children to carry out the orders of an ancient cabal trying to destroy the world just so 12 old men can ascend into godhood.
- Location
- supernatural
Strypgia I am pretty sure that Yui had no idea that Gendo was going to freaking clone her. So she had to know Shinji was going to pilot Eva 0-1.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
You don't? Welp, there goes my summer plans.
- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
Of course she didn't know Gendo was going to use her DNA for Rei. But a Lilith-hybrid clone Pilot was always going to be made, specifically to be the Pilot, since they knew a Lilith-flesh clone with Lilith's soul would naturally be able to synch with Unit-01, the Unit literally carved out of Lilith's body. Not Shinji. Gendo's modification because he couldn't stand missing Yui was just his and Fuyutsuki's idea. Shinji wouldn't have been a last minute desperation move if he was ever supposed to be part of it. Even bringing him in 2 weeks earlier would have given them a lot better prep than Misato picking him up literally as Sachiel walked into town.
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Matt R
Giant Robot Pilot
- Location
- North Dakota
To play devil's advocate, in canon I suppose it's possible that while Yui wanted Shinji to be the pilot (or at least accepted that the only option she had implicitly made Shinji the probable pilot as well), Gendo dismissed this because he resented Shinji or feared his own inability to be a decent father, and sent him away, creating Rei as both a work-around for using Unit-01 and as his tool for Instrumentality. Gendo might then have been forced by circumstance to make use of Shinji due to Rei's injury. (This does put an interesting spin on Kaworu's comment about humans being willing to make use of even that which they hate in order to survive -- Gendo's employing Shinji as a pilot ends up falling into the same category as humans wielding the Evangelions.)
- Location
- supernatural
No it wasn't, that was Gendo plan AFTER Yui died. If that was true SEELE would not have been so pissed when they found out what Rei really was.
StorymasterQ
Chief of Weaponized Tropes First Division
- Location
- Denpasar, Bali
There might be one, but I'm sure there isn't a 'moonful
' box of them.As I've said before, human beings are not rational creatures. We're rationalizing creatures. People don't do necessarily is best, just what they perceive to be best. Even intelligent people, like MetBio physicists, are only intelligent so far they have an esoteric and difficult skill.
Gendo destroying everything out of hand might not have been the sane thing to do, but he HURT and he's a selfish prick. Making sure nobody except him has anything of value of Yui would be perfectly in the character as we know it.
Fuyutsuki is probably low-key just as big a piece of shit. Sure, he doesn't have an active hand in the suffering around him like Gendo does, but he just sits by and lets it happen. Its like walking past a carjacking or something. Misguided Yui boner aside, he seems to have just kind of given up on... anything, just following whoever can bully him around. Him being soft spoken and friendly doesn't undermine those facts.
My personal headcanon was that Kyoko was, in some manner, murdered. They wanted a functional pilot-EVA unit, and they probably had an idea of what happened with the Contact Experiment. I really doubt they valued anyone for their technical knowledge. Besides, they had Akagi left, right? And the new one, just as smart and twice as fresh.
If SEELE agents didn't go in and hang her, they probably gave her the rope to do it with. Where the hell do you even find that in a hospital? Even with the apparent scumminess of that hospital, you'd think they'd keep supplies like that secured. Or they'd notice a complete nutcase wandering out of her room. Thats assuming she had the presence of mind to even be able to get out, get the rope, tie it up and the doll.
Wich reminds me, again, how NERV and SEELE dont know how to run a giant robot base. The fortress city concept is solid, dont get me wrong. But they kinda half assed the robots part. Or, rather, the pilots.
With all respect, Rei at the start of the series, and thus what Gendo expected to sortie against the angels, was a terrible Pilot. How could you expect her to kill an Angel like that? You have to ignore a LOT and just see that her qualification is ... moving the Evangelion. Heck, even Asuka was/is kinda shit.
She's -better- objectively, of course. She has a grasp of dexterity and fine control that is genuinely impressive, with a much better Synch Score. But she's so unprofessional, so bullheaded and so easily frustrated when something doesn't immediately go her way. I mean, it makes "sense" when you consider she was "trained" by a techno-cult who really didn't care if she survived.
Odds are they were both trained in how to "Drive" the Eva and given some very basic simulation fights. Fairly unimaginative stuff. Like interns running these things as a part time thing. Probably didn't allow a single military grade instructor near them.
Why would you have only one Pilot where you actually need their to be Pilots? Why not have Asuka in NERV-JAPAN from the get go? Forget the fact their are legit reasons you could cite, your ass is covered by the actual Illuminati. People really didn't want to look into NERV all that hard. Kaji only seemed to get a chance because it lined up with SEELE's desires, and he was playing a triple agent game even Ocelot would have to give some props.
If Yui didn't know about Instrumentality, then... it kind of makes sense? Her whole monument shpiel is the same exact motive as SEELE. They're terrified of mortality, but its their own mortality. Yui may not mind her own mortality, or of individual people but she's terrified of the mortality of the human collective. Even if every human died, the meme of the human race can still "survive" somehow, if you preserve it. Yui might just be a little more long-sighted, but just as deranged.
Gendo destroying everything out of hand might not have been the sane thing to do, but he HURT and he's a selfish prick. Making sure nobody except him has anything of value of Yui would be perfectly in the character as we know it.
Fuyutsuki is probably low-key just as big a piece of shit. Sure, he doesn't have an active hand in the suffering around him like Gendo does, but he just sits by and lets it happen. Its like walking past a carjacking or something. Misguided Yui boner aside, he seems to have just kind of given up on... anything, just following whoever can bully him around. Him being soft spoken and friendly doesn't undermine those facts.
My personal headcanon was that Kyoko was, in some manner, murdered. They wanted a functional pilot-EVA unit, and they probably had an idea of what happened with the Contact Experiment. I really doubt they valued anyone for their technical knowledge. Besides, they had Akagi left, right? And the new one, just as smart and twice as fresh.
If SEELE agents didn't go in and hang her, they probably gave her the rope to do it with. Where the hell do you even find that in a hospital? Even with the apparent scumminess of that hospital, you'd think they'd keep supplies like that secured. Or they'd notice a complete nutcase wandering out of her room. Thats assuming she had the presence of mind to even be able to get out, get the rope, tie it up and the doll.
Wich reminds me, again, how NERV and SEELE dont know how to run a giant robot base. The fortress city concept is solid, dont get me wrong. But they kinda half assed the robots part. Or, rather, the pilots.
With all respect, Rei at the start of the series, and thus what Gendo expected to sortie against the angels, was a terrible Pilot. How could you expect her to kill an Angel like that? You have to ignore a LOT and just see that her qualification is ... moving the Evangelion. Heck, even Asuka was/is kinda shit.
She's -better- objectively, of course. She has a grasp of dexterity and fine control that is genuinely impressive, with a much better Synch Score. But she's so unprofessional, so bullheaded and so easily frustrated when something doesn't immediately go her way. I mean, it makes "sense" when you consider she was "trained" by a techno-cult who really didn't care if she survived.
Odds are they were both trained in how to "Drive" the Eva and given some very basic simulation fights. Fairly unimaginative stuff. Like interns running these things as a part time thing. Probably didn't allow a single military grade instructor near them.
Why would you have only one Pilot where you actually need their to be Pilots? Why not have Asuka in NERV-JAPAN from the get go? Forget the fact their are legit reasons you could cite, your ass is covered by the actual Illuminati. People really didn't want to look into NERV all that hard. Kaji only seemed to get a chance because it lined up with SEELE's desires, and he was playing a triple agent game even Ocelot would have to give some props.
If Yui didn't know about Instrumentality, then... it kind of makes sense? Her whole monument shpiel is the same exact motive as SEELE. They're terrified of mortality, but its their own mortality. Yui may not mind her own mortality, or of individual people but she's terrified of the mortality of the human collective. Even if every human died, the meme of the human race can still "survive" somehow, if you preserve it. Yui might just be a little more long-sighted, but just as deranged.
- Location
- Surrey
they have a guidebook, it's fine.
Also it's kind of a big jump to equivocate 'I will sacrifice every other person alive to become a god' and 'I will sacrifice myself to stop a death cult and also become an immortal monument for humanity'.
Fuyutsuki's great because he used to be an actually good dude, and then got forced into a Sophie's choice where all his options were either 'die' or 'join death cult'.
Also it's kind of a big jump to equivocate 'I will sacrifice every other person alive to become a god' and 'I will sacrifice myself to stop a death cult and also become an immortal monument for humanity'.
Fuyutsuki's great because he used to be an actually good dude, and then got forced into a Sophie's choice where all his options were either 'die' or 'join death cult'.
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