A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)

[10ebbor10]

we are already bypassing that same interference on our own. yes, in the short term they move prove useful by way of scrying enemies we might hesitate to scry normally, or because of the assets we may miss out on by including them. it's not likely to prove particularly important to our research into the eye of Tzeench.

the trees can focus on fixing our agriculture. we have Old Man Meros for seering. their greenseers welps aren't needed.

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We're not. We're just getting lucky every so often and getting through.

I do not see how you could possibly think that untraced/unblocked scrying would not be particularly useful when dealing with enemy which has massively advanced sight of future and past, and also knows everything our seeers now.

Biel-Tan also will only try to stop murdering us because the other major craftworlds tell them to, without that even with the information about the curse given freely they would still try to kill us*.

*pretty sure they will still try to but have to be a lot more subtle about it then just run a few hundred warhosts into us.

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Biel-Tan would absolutely try to abuse the unified coalition to screw us over.

For the good of everyone, you must transfer these critical resources, create that wargear, and so on and so on. If they had the power to do it, they'd try to strip us bare.

When talking about the major craftworlds, people are also ignoring Ulthwe's world rune.

It was hinted at in the update, but their rune is the Eye of Isha, with a tear, representing her suffering.

For all that conservatives will dislike the Ishari, Ulthwe will probably be a lot more invested and push a lot harder in their favor.

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A good point which I didn't think of.

Illustrates once again how there are people beyond conservatives whose opinions matter.

 

[Copperscale]

Based on craftworld names/world runes
IIyanden => Light in the Darkness
Saim-Hann => Quest for Enlightenment
Biel-Tan => Rebirth of ancient days
Alaitoc => Not directly translated, but "Sword of Khaine piercing the red moon" => Remember Khaine killed Eldanesh

 

[Skjadir]

The time has come—years of politics, of negotiation, of traversing distant corners of the Webway, it all culminates in this.

Erat-Kehsha's orbit is a riot of ships from every corner of the galaxy

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Just double-checked, this is a to us players an unknown system/planet.
Previous post was me mistaking that with our current "home" system (in part because i am pretty tired).

 

[Professor Vesca]

Another thing to remember is the entire premise is we are not the Asuryani. We disagree on what needs to be done and what should be done. We are our own faction, and on things like this we might cooperate but the Asuryani will not be our friends.

 

[Copperscale]

On a sidenote, how many of the craftworlds stuck around the eye of terror will ask for help with their engines?

We know Ulthwe is stuck in the gravity well of the eye of terror, and that Altansar eventually gets pulled in.

 

[weeblypanda]

On a sidenote, how many of the craftworlds stuck around the eye of terror will ask for help with their engines?

We know Ulthwe is stuck in the gravity well of the eye of terror, and that Altansar eventually gets pulled in.

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Enough that Ulthwe has their own small Coalition.

Another thing to remember is the entire premise is we are not the Asuryani. We disagree on what needs to be done and what should be done. We are our own faction, and on things like this we might cooperate but the Asuryani will not be our friends.

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We might not be Asuryani, but we will inevitably be working closely with them. If not for the sheer production capability we have then our preeminence as probably the most influential independent Craftworld outside of the Major ones. We might end up being like Mars and the Mechanicum later on.

 

[Professor Vesca]

Enough that Ulthwe has their own small Coalition.


We might not be Asuryani, but we will inevitably be working closely with them. If not for the sheer production capability we have then our preeminence as probably the most influential independent Craftworld outside of the Major ones. We might end up being like Mars and the Mechanicum later on.

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I would not be against such an arrangement.

 

[Zoolimar]

Another thing to remember is the entire premise is we are not the Asuryani. We disagree on what needs to be done and what should be done. We are our own faction, and on things like this we might cooperate but the Asuryani will not be our friends.

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Considering current plan there is a good chance that is exactly what's gonna happen. And there would be three major Eldar factions.
Vulkari and Co (radicals) - Asuryani (moderates) - Biel-Tan and Co (imperialists)
And then there would be a lot of murder.

 

[Professor Vesca]

Considering current plan there is a good chance that is exactly what's gonna happen. And there would be three major Eldar factions.
Vulkari and Co (radicals) - Asuryani (moderates) - Biel-Tan and Co (imperialists)
And then there would be a lot of murder.

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And then the Drukhari show up. After the murder, I mean.

 

[Randino Treviani]

And then there would be a lot of murder.

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and soul devouring. Slaanesh has quite the feast ahead of it at this rate.

And then the Drukhari show up. After the murder, I mean.

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one bright side of going radical, we can have the Harlequin's carry knowledge of the threat to the Drukhari. it's the least they can do for us with all the favors we've done them. get them working to solve all their problems rather than some and reap the good will.

 

[Skjadir]

So question what do you think will happen after we finished the reforging process and got rid of all three curses?

What kind of political upheaval among the Eldar craftworlds, Exodites, reaction from the Drukhari / dark city ?
Will the process be used to draw large numbers of Eldar that want to be free from the curse to our banners ?
Will the information and knowledge on how to do the reforge be given to other craftworlds ?

 

[RandomTechPriest]

one bright side of going radical, we can have the Harlequin's carry knowledge of the threat to the Drukhari. it's the least they can do for us with all the favors we've done them. get them working to solve all their problems rather than some and reap the good will.

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If they get us the knowledge fast enough we might be able to launch a raid directly upon Commorragh. While we wont be able to destroy it unless we have a sun destroying weapon or two we should be able to extract some interesting technology / pre-Fall relics from the place

 

[Alectai]

So question what do you think will happen after we finished the reforging process and got rid of all three curses?

What kind of political upheaval among the Eldar craftworlds, Exodites, reaction from the Drukhari / dark city ?
Will the process be used to draw large numbers of Eldar that want to be free from the curse to our banners ?
Will the information and knowledge on how to do the reforge be given to other craftworlds ?

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I don't think we're ever getting rid of all three, the point will be mitigating them to a point where we're functionally on par with a faction that isn't crippled from the start. But yeah, I think every faction's gong to have their own path to get there, the only one that likely requires unified support is the Isha Heist.

 

[Skjadir]

I don't think we're ever getting rid of all three, the point will be mitigating them to a point where we're functionally on par with a faction that isn't crippled from the start. But yeah, I think every faction's gong to have their own path to get there, the only one that likely requires unified support is the Isha Heist.

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Considering that the Ishari are one example of a successful soul reforge, and they seem to be curse free.
I am disagreeing with you on the not getting rid of all three.

The questions one just has to ask what kind of downsides it will have.

 

[Professor Vesca]

Considering that the Ishari are one example of a successful soul reforge, and they seem to be curse free.
I am disagreeing with you on the not getting rid of all three.

The questions one just has to ask what kind of downsides it will have.

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In the Ishari's case they cannot access their psychic power, specifically they cannot produce wraithbone and so for any inorganic stuff are wholly dependent on us. That doesnt mean they cant figure something out given time, but without us they would have never had that time.

 

[Cycoteddy]

we could avoid downsides theoretically i also am fairly confident that breaking the 3 curses is possible.

 

[Skjadir]

In the Ishari's case they cannot access their psychic power, specifically they cannot produce wraithbone and so for any inorganic stuff are wholly dependent on us. That doesnt mean they cant figure something out given time, but without us they would have never had that time.

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They actually still have psychic abilities just a lot more limited than before and losing a lot of their raw power.

While this has protected them from the Curse, the side effects are considerable—not only are they unable to return to bodies of flesh, but much of their psykeic power is now lost, denying them nearly all outward psykeic expression—though their mastery of Biomancy has few peers.
Critically, this includes the ability to create and shape Wraithbone, which limits them to, effectively, only the creations of plant-matter the survivors can manipulate like their own bodies.

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And well them being stupidly powerful self-biomancers, also them still getting visions of the future.

They might actually get stupidly dangerous if given access to the ecology of a few deathworlds.

 

[Randino Treviani]

What kind of political upheaval among the Eldar craftworlds, Exodites, reaction from the Drukhari / dark city ?

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I think we enter into a sort of cold war with the conservatives at that point.

some of the moderates, if they haven't got a solution for one curse or the other, may switch, particularly if the fall has been rather hard on their numbers and they need nugles curse gone.

I imagine we'll have a number of struggling Radicals approach us and outright join Vau-Vulkesh and cannibalize there craft worlds to build ours into more of a major craft world to expand into now that we can breed and reincarnate again.

Will the process be used to draw large numbers of Eldar that want to be free from the curse to our banners ?

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I think that will happen automatically to some degree, but shouldn't be actively attempted, lest our contemporaries in the conservatives drum up some bogus propaganda about us trying to exterminate the old Aeldari by changing all there souls.

Will the information and knowledge on how to do the reforge be given to other craftworlds ?

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only some. it's going to be a delicate process and we don't want some idiot to fuck it up and inadvertently do shoddy work that might degrade in a few centuries or millennia.

depending on how things are between us politically we may end up coming to an arrangement with the moderate faction to develop a soul augmentation rather than full reforging to mitigate the worst of Nurgles curse so they can repopulate properly.

I don't think we're ever getting rid of all three, the point will be mitigating them to a point where we're functionally on par with a faction that isn't crippled from the start. But yeah, I think every faction's gong to have their own path to get there, the only one that likely requires unified support is the Isha Heist.

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well yes, it's a longshot that we'll end up entirely getting rid of everything, but none the less there is going to be a point where a solution exists that can be considered something of a salvation we can give to people and that is going to have an impact.

 

[Copperscale]

Gamble a stamp! I can show you how to be a sabre-toothed, poisonous, venomous dire porcupine.

 

[Alratan]

Considering that the Ishari are one example of a successful soul reforge, and they seem to be curse free.
I am disagreeing with you on the not getting rid of all three.

The questions one just has to ask what kind of downsides it will have.

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If the Curses are fixed the Ishari are an example of failure.

They've retained their biomancy and lost everything else.

The Path Eldar can then abandon the Paths and have all their powers.

 

[10ebbor10]

The eldar soul was build upon their Gods. Those gods are now dead, and no matter how much cursebreaking we do, we're not getting them back.

So the pre-fall eldar are not returning, and even if you break the curses, what you have left is an eldar with a bunch of hooks/weaknesses into their souls where those blessings/curses used to attach. It's those things that allow us to attempt the reforging in the first place, but they're also still a weakness.

 

[Alratan]

To my mind, if Biel Tan hadn't had an idiot ball super-glued to them because of plot by the QM the information were bringing about the Curse should almost completely validate them.

There's a path to victory. There's a route by which no morally dubious bullshit is required, but if the current Eldar are buff enough they can reclaim enough of what they've lost to be galactic hegemons again.

As far as I can tell; nothing in what we've learned about the Curses makes soul forging necessary or even a good idea.

If we can kick enough arse we can rescue Isha, kill Kairos, make Isha Queen of the Phoenix Court in Exile, and then wave goodbye to the Paths as a temporary expedient.

As far as Biel Tan is concerned we're the pessimists, cowards too afraid to try.

The Eldar may never be what they were, but they can still be masters of the universe without having to mutilate their souls.

 

[Aliya]

As far as I can tell; nothing in what we've learned about the Curses makes soul forging necessary or even a good idea.

If we can kick enough arse we can rescue Isha, kill Kairos, make Isha Queen of the Phoenix Court in Exile, and then wave goodbye to the Paths as a temporary expedient.

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The Thirst is not solved by this. It probably can't be completely solved by any way other than not being Eldar anymore, like Ishari.

 

[Dutch]

At it's core that's what its all about isn't it. The answer to the question "What is an Eldar without his/her gods?" the curses are merely stacked on top of that.

The Gods are dead. But the holes they left behind can be filled, the question is with what? And what are you willing to give up to get the 'material' needed to plug it.

 

[Alratan]

The Thirst is not solved by this. It probably can't be completely solved by any way other than not being Eldar anymore, like Ishari.

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It is. If Isha is rescued and becomes the legitimate Queen of the Phoenix Court in Exile Slaneesh's hold over the souls of the Eldar may end, because Hir claim is a conceptual/legalistic one.

It may not work; but IC it's plausible that to would. That possibility massively undermines the legitimacy of the Ishari and other irrevocable Soul Forginf approaches.

All that matters to a that it's plausible that it works.