Mmmkay that is I think a case of extrapolating a little too far. Do trust me to use language that would very clearly state "this will absolutely 100% cause [Nobody Liked That]" for options that would do so. There is a radical minority that still exists, that hasn't been hung out to die, forced into line for survival, or otherwise surpressed, there is a sufficient plurality of centrists and or people who just do not care anymore given the radically changed circumstances that it isn't a certain issue anymore even for the Craftworlders, and there will be extremely dangerous murder clowns looming at anyone trying to Start Shit™ because A) you are probably Cegoratch's third or fourth favorite people right now, and B) they're the ones who put you in contact with the Ishari to begin with, in case you have forgotten, and nobody that likes being alive (rather than turning up dead in as embarrassing a fashion as possible) goes around dissing the Harliquins.

So, then, that sounds like bringing the Ishari alienates the conservatives and may encourage the radicals to like us, and has no other effects, as fear of the Harlequins will keep the Craftworlds in line, and that's pretty much a wash.

I think I still prefer not rubbing Biel Tan and Alaitoc's face in it, though, and not making a big deal of the Ishari's existence. I think they could do with some security through obscurity until they're in a safer place.

Honestly, I think our opportunity to make nice with the serious conservatives has passed for the time being. Doing so with the two most conservative Major Craftworlds against us was already a tough sell. Granting the Ishari asylum has probably just ensured that any conservative alliance we forge will be nigh impossible to maintain once they inevitably discover the existence of the Ishari. Not unless we start treating them like second-class citizens, which is obviously a nonstarter.

Honestly, I am starting to suspect that such was an intentional result of the Harlequins introducing us to the Ishari. They've managed to box us in politically towards their preferred faction, but have done so with such skill that I can't even be upset about it.

When our engines are repaired we could always find them a maiden world in a relatively safe location and drop them off there. While we have to evacuate their biosphere nothing says we have to keep it, and they may prefer a Maiden World.

All Aeldari who are opposed to the Ruinous Powers then. Any member of those groups who is politically connected enough to be named a delegate would more likely than not horrifically sabotage the proceedings so they could feed on the resulting suffering. The Ishari provide no such easy excuse for not including them.

The Webway Eldar hate the Ruinous Powers just as much as we do. Their fun is being most definitely ruined by the Chaos Gods.

And the Webway Eldar don't feed on suffering yet. The Haemonculi haven't invented/popularised pain eating yet, as I understand the timeline the Webway Eldar are still under the impression that the Webway's wards are good enough to fully protect them from Slaneesh's Thirst, they don't yet realise they only slow rather than stop it, or that they'll have to stop using their psyker powers that draw on the warp because they (temporarily?) weaken the wards and so reduce the protection from the Thirst. It's only when that happens I a few centuries/couple of millenia that you'll see
The Webway Eldar invent and adopt the eating of suffering.

The Webway Eldar would love to be free of the Curses.

Does that mean that if he's present everything we do is immediately leaked to Kairos? If he's using seersight as a replacement for regular sight.

Otherwise, I see no issue with a plan to bring at least one person from everyone we ally to. That's going to be our statement and it's a fine one.

We can just advise him not to use his seer powers, and instead do something like use telepathy to look through the eyes of something else, like a pet.
 
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Frankly, we need the isharii. They are providing us with the expertise we need to avoid famine. If the other eldar want to ignore our warnings because we are allied with people who are going to help keep us alive. Then they can suffer from the stagnation they so desire. Frankly also, the murder clowns put them in front of us. I don't think it wise to disappoint the murder clowns.

Frankly, trying to not offend the conservatives is going to go the same way the isharii asking us to not make more industry will go. The response is "it's literally antithetical to our beliefs" and then we/the conservatives do what they were going to do anyway.

TLDR:I don't care about the conservatives long term. The ones I care about getting the message are the ones that don't see body/soul modification as a disqualifying factor for the title of "kin". I am ride or die for people I call allies. And that isn't changing.
 
In general, if we would call the moot to rein back Biel-Tan after their attack - asking for favors basically - we would need to position ourselves carefully and cater to conservatives.

As we're instead doing everyone a favor first, they can shut it and deal with who we prefer to be instead.
 
Frankly, we need the isharii. They are providing us with the expertise we need to avoid famine. If the other eldar want to ignore our warnings because we are allied with people who are going to help keep us alive. Then they can suffer from the stagnation they so desire. Frankly also, the murder clowns put them in front of us. I don't think it wise to disappoint the murder clowns.

Frankly, trying to not offend the conservatives is going to go the same way the isharii asking us to not make more industry will go. The response is "it's literally antithetical to our beliefs" and then we/the conservatives do what they were going to do anyway.

TLDR:I don't care about the conservatives long term. The ones I care about getting the message are the ones that don't see body/soul modification as a disqualifying factor for the title of "kin". I am ride or die for people I call allies. And that isn't changing.

Once again. This is not a thing. Eldar do not consider other Eldar who have modified themselves to have stopped being Eldar. Even things like Mandrakes are still considered Eldar. They're just disapproved of by people who object to such transformations. They think Eldar who have transformed themselves are immoral, not Other.

As a side note, we don't need the Ishari not to stave.
 
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The Ishari can't move. We aren't dumping them just to appease some conservative fops. They will be trapped wherever we dump them. So let's just let them stay on our craftworld.
 
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So, then, that sounds like bringing the Ishari alienates the conservatives and may encourage the radicals to like us, and has no other effects, as fear of the Harlequins will keep the Craftworlds in line, and that's pretty much a wash.

I think I still prefer not rubbing Biel Tan and Alaitoc's face in it, though, and not making a big deal of the Ishari's existence. I think they could do with some security through obscurity until they're in a safer place.



When our engines are repaired we could always find them a maiden world in a relatively safe location and drop them off there. While we have to evacuate their biosphere nothing says we have to keep it, and they may prefer a Maiden World.



The Webway Eldar hate the Ruinous Powers just as much as we do. Their fun is being most definitely ruined by the Chaos Gods.

And the Webway Eldar don't feed on suffering yet. The Haemonculi haven't invented/popularised pain eating yet, as I understand the timeline the Webway Eldar are still under the impression that the Webway's wards are good enough to fully protect them from Slaneesh's Thirst, they don't yet realise they only slow rather than stop it, or that they'll have to stop using their psyker powers that draw on the warp because they (temporarily?) weaken the wards and so reduce the protection from the Thirst. It's only when that happens I a few centuries/couple of millenia that you'll see
The Webway Eldar invent and adopt the eating of suffering.

The Webway Eldar would love to be free of the Curses.



We can just advise him not to use his seer powers, and instead do something like use telepathy to look through the eyes of something else, like a pet.
It's also important to note that at present most of the Webway dwellers are in reasonable proximity slash are actually in Cormorragh, which, as far as anyone knows at the moment, is currently either Daemon Central or the back annex of Slaanesh's palace, because nobody in universe knows they managed to slam Khane's Gate closed fast enough for there to be negligible daemonic incursion. So the optimistic estimate is "everyone there is Turbo Dead, but they managed to stop up the door with the pile of bodies and the Ruinous Powers do not have a twelve-lane highway into the middle of the Webway."

And that's unlikely to change until a few of them have a reason to poke their heads (or, well, someone's heads, anyway) out again, because the Harliquins, like anyone who likes being alive and not eaten by Neverborn, are presently avoiding going anywhere near the place, so there's no HUMINT going on there.
 
I am being more and more convinced that we should stand by the Ishari. If we make enemies so be it. But they are what we stand for and we should stick to our guns. We can attract more radicals to our banner to form the third faction of the Aeldari.

I am also curious who Ceogorachs second favorite is. What illustrious company we keep.
I don't want to form the third faction of the Aeldari. I just want to pass on the information, not step on any toes in the process, and present ourselves as a successful and powerful faction in the north willing to help out our fellow Aeldari. I don't want this to fall apart on us and end up back on square one after lucking into the Aeldmoot in the first place and have to give up all our plans of careful planned out development for the scramble to militarize of the first few turns. I want a legacy of being the one who united the Aeldari against Chaos, not a legacy of almost doing that, but showed up to the Aeldmoot with the wrong person in tow and has a legacy of dividing the Aeldari even further instead.
 
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As a side note, we don't need the Ishari not to stave.
While true. Our other option has us turn our water features into aquaponics. Which I would like to do. But that is only likely to get us net neutral. The isharii In conjunction with everything else hopefully gets us net positive. And see people actually *try* to have kids despite... nurgles... interferance.
 
I don't want to form the third faction of the Aeldari. I just want to pass on the information, not step on any toes in the process, and present ourselves as a successful and powerful faction in the north willing to help out our fellow Aeldari. I don't want this to fall apart on us and end up back on square one after lucking into the Aeldmoot in the first place and have to give up all our plans of careful planned out development for the scramble to militarize of the first few turns. I want a legacy of being the one who united the Aeldari against Chaos, not a legacy of almost doing that, but showed up to the Aeldmoot with the wrong person in tow and has a legacy of dividing the Aeldari even further instead.

No. Currently the fateweaver can only brute force interfere with visions. See the previous update with Vau-Vulkesh aeldari seering lord psy-feedback blasted into a wall.
The same effect also lets the Rainbow Pigeon spy on all your scrying (sort of required for targeting, after all, without that he'd have to be throwing random darts and hoping he hits the specific things he wants to block while not hitting the ones he doesn't , and well I trust you can see the problem with that).


The subtle portion is that he'll eventually get to feed false data in and conceal true data, allowing him to completely compromise scrying even if you compensate for the brute force interference, which was previously assumed to be random and or the consequence of losing all your gods of prophecy and such, not, essentially, active jamming by the enemy.

In the same way that the obvious portion of Nurgle's curse is "screw over conception/the creation of new souls" and the subtle part is nudging things towards stagnation, little by little.
 
And that's unlikely to change until a few of them have a reason to poke their heads (or, well, someone's heads, anyway) out again, because the Harliquins, like anyone who likes being alive and not eaten by Neverborn, are presently avoiding going anywhere near the place, so there's no HUMINT going on there.
So does that mean Cego can't tell even with his own Key or just that he hasn't told them?
 
Seven sons has Aresh-Vul, whose council he most values; each has been of great import in the ruling of Vau-Vulkesh. Tall and Copperhaired Geal-Vad Halfhand, the Mariner, is eldest, and his father's strong right hand—for all that his own was lost in battle with the minions of the Soul-Thirster during their escape. Reaf-Vad the Minstrel, Tall and dark of hair, serves often now as his father's conduit to the Harlequins, for not infrequently did this second son consider joining with the servants of the Laughing God to ply his skill with song in the days before the Fall. Light-haired Ceil-Vad the Hunter, third son of Aresh-Vul, favored murdered Kruronos and is among the most clever of them; and rarely is he apart from his brother Seil-Vad the Dark, quickest to anger and harshest of Aresh-Vul's sons. Fifth of his sons is Aryad-Vad, who resembles his father greatly and was himself a priest of Vaul, who too is often found in company with his immediate elder brothers, often tempering Seil-Vad's anger with quick wit and cleverness.
His youngest are the twins Fanr-Vad and Fenr-Vad, who are often overlooked, but in these fallen days their sharp wisdom has been invaluable to their father and his people.

Bring Aresh-Vul's seven sons, whom serve as the core of his council and as his deputies in managing the needs of Vau-Vulkesh.
I didn't notice that before, but our leadership are the Sons of Feanor.

Which is fitting I guess.
Just be careful about any vows.
 
Ah, okay, so yeah, bringing him in does mean we're giving the Fateweaver a front row seat to what we're doing. Yeah, probably bring his daughter instead then.
 
So does that mean Cego can't tell even with his own Key or just that he hasn't told them?
He knows that the area is stable, which suggests that a Key is in play. He also knows that the Dark Prince has one, possibly even two, so keeping it stable wouldn't be difficult, especially since it's a gigantic space so minor topographic changes wouldn't have much effect anyway. Beyond that, he has to actually send someone to go look, and, well, he's already got 5000 fires and 5 firemen, so he's leaving that on the shelf for now.

That said, someone in the area will poke their heads out eventually, and it won't take long for him to hear about it, add two and two to get four, and realize they must have slammed the door shut fast enough to actually not die.
 
I think your overestimating one of those craft worlds hatred of us. Beil Tan is the only one that hates us. The other one, I'm bad with name, doesn't exactly approve, but they'll have other radicals to focus their ire on and shift to hating nurgle if we can convince them Isha is alive, which will probably shift us to neutral but not getting on the bad side of.
Alaitoc is extremely conservative and unwilling to pass up on an opportunity to cause us trouble. Even if we can get to neutral with them, I don't think it would last given our radical outlook.

Moreover, we are about to become the most prominent radical faction aside from maybe the Harlequins, Ishari or no Ishari. Making and publicizing groundbreaking discoveries tends to do wonders for a group's prominence. Unfortunately, since no sane individual and few lunatics will antagonize the Harlequins, that means we can't really redirect stuff like that.

Once we have a stop gap solution for the curse of nurgle that gives us half decent odds of getting the Aeldari to overcome the stagnation rather than a 1/100 chance, we can start leveraging all the good we've done and our presumably grown in membership and power alliance to help the conservative become less self destructively conservative by arguing it weakens nurgle.
Eventually we may be able to make inroads in that direction (although I personally think supplying military surplus is the way to go in that regard) but it's so far off I'm not sure it's even worth mentioning. Still, that's centuries away at minimum, which is why I didn't mention it before.
 
Who has been inflicted with that kind of curse?
All the Eldar, everywhere, have been inflicted with what was supposed to be Four and One Curses by the Four Chaos Gods, but ended up Three and None because Khorne choked at the last second.

So we're only dealing with:
T) Our scrying is being wiretapped, and eventually hijacked,
S) Our souls are condemned to be vored after death,
N) No baby for you, also become neckbeard.
 
Ah, okay, so yeah, bringing him in does mean we're giving the Fateweaver a front row seat to what we're doing. Yeah, probably bring his daughter instead then.
We could also make the suboptimal choice of bringing him anyway to flex on Fateweaver. "It's been like 15 years since our gods imploded and we already figured out your Game, we don't even care if you know we're coming" would be a massive show of arrogance and deeply unwise, but it would also be very funny.
 
Alaitoc is extremely conservative and unwilling to pass up on an opportunity to cause us trouble. Even if we can get to neutral with them, I don't think it would last given our radical outlook.

*Picks up extra thick glasses and pushes them up, puts in fake teeth and speaks in a nasal voice* Well, actually, they are also Radicals right now. The System of the Paths is a New Thing.
 
Ah, okay, so yeah, bringing him in does mean we're giving the Fateweaver a front row seat to what we're doing. Yeah, probably bring his daughter instead then.
Being fair the Fateweaver is 100% going to realize within, like, half a turn of this conclave anyway. It's not like the Eldar are going to be able to hide this crucial information from their own seers. Better to have someone with the kind of seniority to help browbeat everyone into at least hearing us out than keeping the information out of Chaos's hands for a few more days, I think.
 
Ah, okay, so yeah, bringing him in does mean we're giving the Fateweaver a front row seat to what we're doing. Yeah, probably bring his daughter instead then.
Ironically the specific application one uses to compensate for losing one's sight is (for Eldar) generally Warpsight/Wraithsight, which is more ESP than scrying. So it's not actually compromised (and would be of fairly limited utility even if it was, since, no sound, no color, and good luck with lip-reading when "glowy person shaped blob" is upper percentile acuity. It's enough to keep him from walking into walls or constantly barking his shins on that one low table that always seems to spontaneously manafest an empty coffeemug despite nobody in the building drinking coffee, but High Definition Video it ain't.)

And even if it was, he's only blind, even humans can deal with that.

Edit: but yeah, the Ruinous Powers are going to realize their schemes have been rumpled pretty fast, the problem is there's not a lot they can actually do about it. The brief moment of cooperation that led to those curses has passed, and they're all either already as powerful as they're going to get without more time to settle in, or as they're going to get because it has to be constantly reapplied or it just burns right off in a day or two.

So Kairos can scream and throw his staff through a wall whilst demoting whatever of his servants annoyed him most recently to Chaos Spawn, but there's not a lot he can actually do about it without burning power for spontaneous manafestations in a very heavily warded area, even if the temperary nature of said wards limits their effectiveness... Well, for a scheme that failed this completely he's going to have to worry about throwing good money after bad.
 
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Ironically the specific application one uses to compensate for losing one's sight is (for Eldar) generally Warpsight/Wraithsight, which is more ESP than scrying. So it's not actually compromised (and would be of fairly limited utility even if it was, since, no sound, no color, and good luck with lip-reading when "glowy person shaped blob" is upper percentile acuity. It's enough to keep him from walking into walls or constantly barking his shins on that one low table that always seems to spontaneously manafest an empty coffeemug despite nobody in the building drinking coffee, but High Definition Video it ain't.)

And even if it was, he's only blind, even humans can deal with that.

Hahaha! Okay! Never mind! Old Wise Master is back on the menu!

BTW, how fucked was he if Anything went wrong with the Meros Tower Defense?
 
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