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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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Arkeus said:
No.
It has invested 5 major actions in the breakthrough. Re read the plan.
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We only have 5 majors that are possible to invest in at the moment, unless we take two minors and do a closed-door cultivation week, which PS did not do.

Which means we only have 5 actions to invest.
1st action is breakthrough
2nd action is breakthrough
3rd action is breakthrough
4th action is breakthrough
5th action is spiritual/physical cultivation.

A spiritual/physical cultivation action is not a breakthrough action. It is a regular cultivation action. Should every breakthrough attempt succeed, we will not have a 5th breakthrough to try to get the second bronze breakthrough needed, we will cultivate spiritual.

The 5th breakthrough action occurs if we fail a roll in the preceding 4 breakthrough actions. But it only occurs because of a drug, and has a possibility of not occurring.
 
1986ctcel said:
Whoop dee doo, we aren't on a time limit and there's nothing urgent conflictwise that we need Green/Bronze for next week.
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Conflict is hardly the only reason we want to get Green asap. Here's a list of other things Green gives to us:

1) +5 dice towards all cultivating rolls (we lose 5 dice from not being able to use red stones but gain 10 dice from being able to use another yellow stone)
2) We can start cultivating Spiritual again.
3) We can start cultivating EPC again.
4) We can start cultivating FVM again.
5) We can start cultivating AM again, although only after we also open a head meridian
6) Incidentally, that +5 dice will help a lot with opening more meridians. We're kinda capped without using rare drugs at the moment
7) Breakthrough bonuses are likely to help our cultivation quite a bit. For example, see Yellow breakthrough where we got discounts to Wind arts, bonus successes for Qi/spiritual cultivation, more dice from natural sites, cap on attibutes/skills lifted one level, AND an extra major action
8) In fact that's so important I'll put it by itself: WE MIGHT GET ANOTHER MAJOR ACTION WHEN WE HIT GREEN
9) Ability to use a green stone with cultivation, although we're very unlikely to use that in the near future.

All of these things won't be relavant next week, but some of them very well could/will be! Getting EPC 4 or Green Appraisal a week earlier both sound very nice, for example.
 
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PrimalShadow said:
Its a bit more than that. The Last stop plan DOES set us back in a number of ways. In particular:
  • We are liable to do AE cultivation this week, which means the Spiritual from the Black Pool is wasted.
  • We are doing a mission that is far below our level to get Zhengui some exercise. If we had broken through, we could have him come along on the Golden Field hunts and cultivate at the same time.
  • We don't get to apply the Grinning Moon bonus to EPC, which is by far the most effective way to use it (since cultivation arts are a lot harder to train than anything else).
Mind you, none of these are necessarily dealbreakers, but they are setbacks.
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A) That's a trivial expense, and AE is no longer doubled up on.
B) Removed literally hours ago
C) Okay that's legitimate, but your plan doesn't get to do that either because it doesn't do something that'll give EPC successes anyway, so I don't see why that's a minus for me but a plus for you.

Like, are people even arguing against my plan as it stands, or just arguing against a strawman at this point.
 
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SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
So you're going to set us back a week because of sour grapes over the last vote.

That sounds wonderful. Let's not.
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Actually, this is your argument right now

SWB: Why are you wasting a week preparing for breakthrough? We did that last week!
Alectai: No? We actually did stuff like the Dragon option even when we already had a lot of stuff on our plate actionwise. That's why my plan has us preparing this week.
SWB: So it's just sour grapes driving you to set us back this week then?

.....seriously how did you even get that from his posts?
 
Thor's Twin said:
We only have 5 majors that are possible to invest in at the moment, unless we take two minors and do a closed-door cultivation week, which PS did not do.

Which means we only have 5 actions to invest.
1st action is breakthrough
2nd action is breakthrough
3rd action is breakthrough
4th action is breakthrough
5th action is spiritual/physical cultivation.

A spiritual/physical cultivation action is not a breakthrough action. It is a regular cultivation action. Should every breakthrough attempt succeed, we will not have a 5th breakthrough to try to get the second bronze breakthrough needed, we will cultivate spiritual.

The 5th breakthrough action occurs if we fail a roll in the preceding 4 breakthrough actions. But it only occurs because of a drug, and has a possibility of not occurring.
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It occurs if we fail two rolls. We need to cultivate to breakthrough, it has nothing to do with the drugs.

Please reread the plan.
 
Thor's Twin said:
We only have 5 majors that are possible to invest in at the moment, unless we take two minors and do a closed-door cultivation week, which PS did not do.

Which means we only have 5 actions to invest.
1st action is breakthrough
2nd action is breakthrough
3rd action is breakthrough
4th action is breakthrough
5th action is spiritual/physical cultivation.

A spiritual/physical cultivation action is not a breakthrough action. It is a regular cultivation action. Should every breakthrough attempt succeed, we will not have a 5th breakthrough to try to get the second bronze breakthrough needed, we will cultivate spiritual.

The 5th breakthrough action occurs if we fail a roll in the preceding 4 breakthrough actions. But it only occurs because of a drug, and has a possibility of not occurring.
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You are correct in that there is a distinction here, but @Arkeus has rightfully pointed out that the distinction only matters 10% of the time. My plan is not quite a 5-breakthrough-action plan, but is is really close.
 
Arkeus said:
i define it as 'actons needed for breakthrough'

In 90% of the cases, writing 'breakthrough x5' is literally the same as PS plan.
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Yeah... that's probably not a great definition to be working off of.

In that case, then every single time we cultivated physical and spiritual to get to peak would have been a "breakthrough action" and that is clearly not the case. There are separate actions in the list for a very specific reason, and they are not the same thing. Cultivating physical and spiritual after a failed breakthrough is not a breakthrough action, it is cultivating physical and spiritual.

The reason that PS is not having Breakthrough x5 is to allow us to have more minors, and if we succeed in all breakthrough actions, we will not have a 5th one.
 
*Flipflops indecisively*

Can't make up my mind.

Kian said:
The problem is that there is no viable alternative to crx.

I hate being fashion Hitlers private Gestapo as much as the next guy but there is simply nothing else.

Gu Tai involves a marriage Ling Qi doesnt want. She didnt even want the interview. Otherwise, exploring ancient ruins for loot and knowledge, part Tomb Raider part Magos Explarator part Monster Hunter sounds awesome. If they had offered to adopt us or even better simply offered a normal vassal pledge, I believe this option would lead.

The Bai option is straight out. If not for our sake than at the very least for the sake of Meizhen.

And the sect/empire hasnt offered anything beyond being a debtslave until our student loan is picked up. No wonder they havent produced anything worthwhile in a while, the greatest Clans seem to have first pick of talented minor / non-nobles disciples, approaching the most talented early when their loyalty is fairely cheap.

Waiting till green or till after getting into the inner sect, meaning till a disciple is proven, is a low risk approach that ensures that the sect wont waste any ressources on a failure, however, as CRXs tactic shows, risks other factions calling dibs. When we turn green and we are offered a position we will be talking to a total rando, who never cared for us before and is now pitted against the offer from a girl for whom we fought and bled ((and stole) a lot) and who invested in us for month, both in ressources and personal time.


Tldr,
We are most likely become Crxs vassel, not because we like the job so much but because we are dont have any other viable alternative.

Conclusion, the empire needs a fucking HR department.

In real world terms:

CRX invests in vocational training, recruitment scholarships, therefore investing in her own future with people like Gan and us.

The sect and empire waits for their unicorn. The extremely dedicated and efficient guy with a masters degree and 8 years of relevant work experience who desires nothing, absolutely nothing, more than to fill an entry level position in your company. (people like fu and medic su)

(crafting su is likely going to go hermit)
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Now to be fair it's very rare for people to get offers from someone like CRX at our level, if only because it's very rare for ducal heirs to come through a sect. From what Meizhen says even the uber-talented usually only get offers like that after a few years proving themselves in service, which gives the sect at least a chance to recruit them.

Of course that isn't really much of a defence since it instead leaves those uber-talented commoners to be snapped up by the lower and middle ranking families before the sect really offers them anything concrete for staying there permanently. Xiulan's comments that we should be beating off suitors with a stick after our displays of talent really does suggest that most talented commoners who don't get shit stomped on by nobles are grabbed up, if only as a form of protection from having all your stuff stolen and your limbs torn off.

I agree with you that the sect is waiting for a unicorn here. Because for the sect to recruit someone they have to have a massive ego that demands a lot more than most nobles can offer, enough connections or strength that they can't get mobbed to death and who, despite this ego, is both within the sect's price range once the get to the next level and totally uninterested in worldly stuff.*

Their problem is that they haven't adapted the culture of the sect, probably due to age and confirmation bias.** They know that high talent commoners (who are amongst the best recruits they could get) get snapped up by lower families when they have little idea what they're worth. As I said a while ago they're still stuck in the mindset they had before Emperor An, where they were so thoroughly reliant on noble patronage for their continuance they didn't care about a few commoners slipping through the cracks.

The outer sect is still treated as a throwaway pool from which a useful gem might emerge now and then. So they take those gems that fall out rather than properly looking for them and grabbing them when they're found.

*Or in the case of Suyin and those like her (ie Renshu), counting on their hate of nobles causing them to suffer total amnesia about the fact that the sect ignores if nor encourages that sort of behaviour from nobles.

** I am one of the best. The sect is one of the best, and offers [list of things sect elders and nobles might know but commoners wouldn't have a clue about]. Who wouldn't want to work here? We don't want people stupid enough to work for a fraction of what they're worth.

EDIT: Corrected a number of spelling and grammar errors.
 
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1986ctcel said:
Actually, this is your argument right now

SWB: Why are you wasting a week preparing for breakthrough? We did that last week!
Alectai: No? We actually did stuff like the Dragon option even when we already had a lot of stuff on our plate actionwise. That's why my plan has us preparing this week.
SWB: So it's just sour grapes driving you to set us back this week then?

.....seriously how did you even get that from his posts?
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He's trying to reverse last week's vote. That's fine, we do get to vote every week. But it doesn't change that we're talking about options like the favor because he's unhappy with the results of last week's vote.

I'm going to call it like I see it. We did all the appropriate preparation last week. We don't need to do any more this week. Five actions into prep for a closed door week sets us back a week we don't need to take off, as we had about 3 actions last week that could have gone in here but that we didn't want or need at all.
 
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Alectai said:
A) That's a trivial expense, and AE is no longer doubled up on.
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I'm not quite sure how to read the conditionals on your plan. If we fail one breakthrough, do we cultivate AE or AC? Maybe we cultivate AE if we fail the bronze breakthrough, and AC if we fail the green breakthrough?

If I use that as a reference, 40% of the time, you are wasting 1/4 of the successes from AE cultivation towards spiritual. So that is 10% of an action, wasted.

Not much, I agree, but not nothing. That is roughly comparable to the action wastage from Blood of Father Sky, which you seemed especially upset about.

Alectai said:
B) Removed literally hours ago
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Fair.

Alectai said:
C) Okay that's legitimate, but your plan doesn't get to do that either because it doesn't do something that'll give EPC successes anyway, so I don't see why that's a minus for me but a plus for you.
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Because I can do the favors sometime over the next couple of weeks and apply the bonuses to EPC.
We don't have the missions available to do 1 stealth thing a week, so the fact that you "use up" a stealth task is a minor hit against your plan.
 
Belial666 said:
You forgot "not losing XP for the six stats that have hit the cap".

Hitting Green/Bronze is absolutely essential to make the most out of our actions no matter what they are.
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I edited in that caps were lifted right before you posted, so your objection is moot :p But yes, hitting even one of Green/Bronze as quick as we can is rather important.

Oh, here's a non-cultivation 10) If we breakthrough to Green BEFORE Cai's peace announcement/meeting, we'll show off our breakthrough to all the bigwigs, which should be good for our reputation. And it totally follows the precedent of us with breaking through to yellow right before Cai's first meeting.
 
PrimalShadow said:
I'm not quite sure how to read the conditionals on your plan. If we fail one breakthrough, do we cultivate AE or AC? Maybe we cultivate AE if we fail the bronze breakthrough, and AC if we fail the green breakthrough?
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If we fail no breakthroughs, we train AC and AE. If we fail one, we train AC. If we fail both, we train nothing.

Simple enough.
 
Thor's Twin said:
Yeah... that's probably not a great definition to be working off of.

In that case, then every single time we cultivated physical and spiritual to get to peak would have been a "breakthrough action" and that is clearly not the case. There are separate actions in the list for a very specific reason, and they are not the same thing. Cultivating physical and spiritual after a failed breakthrough is not a breakthrough action, it is cultivating physical and spiritual.

The reason that PS is not having Breakthrough x5 is to allow us to have more minors, and if we succeed in all breakthrough actions, we will not have a 5th one.
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It is the only possible definition, unless your argument is that no plan can possibly be called more than 3 breakthrough actions. After all, there is a significant chance that Yeang plan is 3 breakthrough actions.
 
[x] Plan Breakthrough: Start!

Apparently we're not going closed door this week, so I'll take what I can get and try and max out our chance to get green. Too bad, a double breakthrough would have been legendary.
 
PrimalShadow said:
  • We are doing a mission that is far below our level to get Zhengui some exercise. If we had broken through, we could have him come along on the Golden Field hunts and cultivate at the same time.
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Tbf I think the argument in this case was to get enough sect points to go to the Third Floor archives, although there's probably more efficient ways of getting points.
 
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