To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

UbeOne · Oct 18, 2017

[X][THEMIS] Open the Straits of Themis to limited commerce. Set up an Access Zone, patrolled by Starfleet. (This will act as another border zone, and will have a garrison requirement). In exchange, Cardassia must accept economic concessions (+50 BR/SR a year, limited trade open). Hawks angry, Expansionists annoyed (-26 pp). Cardassia will be unhappy, but may accept this arrangement.

But are we able to divert enough ships to garrison this area? Otherwise, there's the bottom option...

Shard · Oct 18, 2017

I think this question would depend on our ship distribution planners.

How many ships do we have available?

Also, QM's, does the treaty of Celos have anything to say on this matter?

lbmaian · Oct 18, 2017

anon_user said:
+3 pp for choosing the Orion Union's preferred name.
...
[ ][THEMIS] Close the Straits of Themis entirely. Pacifists and Mercantilists upset (-19 pp), Cardassians livid. (Risk of alliance with Hayant, risk of escalation in GBZ)
[ ][THEMIS] Open the Straits of Themis to limited commerce. Set up an Access Zone, patrolled by Starfleet. (This will act as another border zone, and will have a garrison requirement). In exchange, Cardassia must accept economic concessions (+50 BR/SR a year, limited trade open). Hawks angry, Expansionists annoyed (-26 pp). Cardassia will be unhappy, but may accept this arrangement.
[ ][THEMIS] Open the Straits of Themis to limited commerce. Set up an Access Zone, rely on the member fleets to patrol it. (There will not be a garrison requirement). In exchange, Cardassia must accept economic concessions (+25 BR/SR a year each to Seyek and Qloathi, limited trade open). Hawks and Expansionists angry (-35 pp). Cardassia will accept this arrangement.

Y U have more 2319 pp rewards/costs after EOY?? :jackiechan:

...

Also the last time I recall where we got a pp reward for naming a ship:

OneirosTheWriter said:
2306.Q1

The spotlights illuminate the proud "USS Miracht", black lettering in sharp relief on the pearly white hull. The shuttles with the crew are steadily arriving, their shapes flitting in and out of view beyond the bony ribbing of the San Francisco Fleet Yards drydock. Nearly half a kilometer in length, over two millions tons of mass, the Excelsior-class is one of the mightiest vessels in the known galaxy. In the hands of the right crew, she had no equal.

Federation Councillors from Tellar Prime and every Tellarite colony were on hand to witness the relaunch of the ship that bore the name of the homeworld. For once they seem hardly argumentative at all. Instead the delight at knowing that the Explorer Corps will be carrying this name to distant stars in friendship has them feeling overwhelmed.

Between you and Vice Admiral Sousa the ceremony is conducted with ponderous care, preserving the gravitas of the moment and letting the Tellarites soak it all in. But soon the time comes and the ship pulls away from the drydock, ready to take on the stars.

[+10 pp from Tellarite reaction to name]

OneirosTheWriter · Oct 18, 2017

lbmaian said:
Y U have more 2319 pp rewards/costs after EOY??

It counts under 2320, don't worry

Jenny · Oct 18, 2017

lbmaian said:
Y U have more 2319 pp costs after EOY??

to drive you as mad as us QMs

Random Member said:
Hmm, what would the D-requirement for thz Access Zone be though?

The requirement would be D7.
(to be clear, that's D7, not a D7)

Shard · Oct 18, 2017

You know, given the PP bonus for naming ships, should we perhaps start being political with our ship names?

Does the treaty of Celos have anything to say on the Themis matter?

Forgothrax · Oct 18, 2017

[X][THEMIS] Close the Straits of Themis entirely. Pacifists and Mercantilists upset (-19 pp), Cardassians livid. (Risk of alliance with Hayant, risk of escalation in GBZ)

If they want to play ball, they can do so by renegotiating Celos. I'm not going to give them what they want for some measly BR/SR contributions when we can force them to negotiate. Nor am I willing to let them continue relations with the Dawiar when we have an opportunity to no longer do so.

As for the GBZ? Sure, Spoonies, wanna git recked again? We've kicked your ass up and down the border before, and we'll do it again.

Nervos Belli · Oct 18, 2017

Shard said:
You know, given the PP bonus for naming ships, should we perhaps start being political with our ship names?

Does the treaty of Celos have anything to say on the Themis matter?

We've only gotten pp bonii twice. First with Miracht which was to mark the end of the Biophage crisis and honor those casualties, and now with Zaryat which serves as a symbol of Federation support for the Union right in the middle of a major crisis for the Orions. It seems clear to me we only get pp as a reward for very exceptional circumstances.

Briefvoice · Oct 18, 2017

Random Member said:
Okay, maybe closing the Straits isn't a good idea right now. And that sweet BR/SR we could get. Hmm, what would the D-requirement for thz Access Zone be though?

My reading is that the BR/SR is split by the Seyek and the Qloathi. It doesn't go to Starfleet. @OneirosTheWriter can you clarify?

Shard · Oct 18, 2017

[X][THEMIS] Close the Straits of Themis entirely. Pacifists and Mercantilists upset (-19 pp), Cardassians livid. (Risk of alliance with Hayant, risk of escalation in GBZ)

My understanding (someone may wish to correct me on this) is that we have a strategical advantage over the Cardassians at this point in time - They have lost rather the amount of forces, while we have just finished 4 Excelsiors.

Nervos Belli · Oct 18, 2017

Briefvoice said:
My reading is that the BR/SR is split by the Seyek and the Qloathi. It doesn't go to Starfleet. @OneirosTheWriter can you clarify?

In the second option Starfleet is the one patrolling the Straits so the reward goes to us. In the third the Seyek and Qloathi do the patrolling so they get the income. At least that's how I read it.

Jenny · Oct 18, 2017

Briefvoice said:
My reading is that the BR/SR is split by the Seyek and the Qloathi. It doesn't go to Starfleet. @OneirosTheWriter can you clarify?

If you choose to have Starfleet patrol, then Starfleet gets 50 BR and 50 SR more a year; if you do not choose to have Starfleet patrol, then the Seyek and Qloathi, who are taking on the responsibility of patrolling the Access Zone, split the extra BR and SR between them.

Shard · Oct 18, 2017

Just how much trade passes through the Straits of Themis?

Briefvoice · Oct 18, 2017

[X][THEMIS] Open the Straits of Themis to limited commerce. Set up an Access Zone, rely on the member fleets to patrol it. (There will not be a garrison requirement). In exchange, Cardassia must accept economic concessions (+25 BR/SR a year each to Seyek and Qloathi, limited trade open). Hawks and Expansionists angry (-35 pp). Cardassia will accept this arrangement.

Eh, the tipping point for me is that Cardassia will definitely accept this while they only might accept the middle option.

pheonix89 · Oct 18, 2017

Arg, if we didn't have Hayant running around closing the Straits would be the obvious pick.

Shard · Oct 18, 2017

Briefvoice said:
[X][THEMIS] Open the Straits of Themis to limited commerce. Set up an Access Zone, rely on the member fleets to patrol it. (There will not be a garrison requirement). In exchange, Cardassia must accept economic concessions (+25 BR/SR a year each to Seyek and Qloathi, limited trade open). Hawks and Expansionists angry (-35 pp). Cardassia will accept this arrangement.

Eh, the tipping point for me is that Cardassia will definitely accept this while they only might accept the middle option.

You might want to ask why Cardassia is happier with our member fleets patrolling the Access Zone, and why the Expansionists are upset with it.

I have no idea why.

pheonix89 said:
Arg, if we didn't have Hayant running around closing the Straits would be the obvious pick.

Cardassia has had the luck of it's crisis coinciding with our crisis.

It would be nice if we could time these decisions when Cardassia is having a crisis or somesuch.

Nervos Belli · Oct 18, 2017

Shard said:
Just how much trade passes through the Straits of Themis?

It's the main pipeline between the Cardassians and the Dawiar, and possibly the Lecarre as well. Dawiar will definitely be angry if we close it, but they would also be unable to rely on Cardassia for trade anymore. Whereas leaving it open makes them happier with us, but also means they can maintain ties with Cardassia. That said, I'm not too worried about the Dawiar. They are likely to stay neutral during any war, and even if they don't our member fleets in the area should be able to deal with them.

Edit: Also, to respond to your earlier post, we aren't at an overwhelming advantage against the Cardassians at this time. They've made up most of their losses at Gabriel, and those 4 Excelsiors don't finish until the end of this year or start of the next one.

Deathbybunnies · Oct 18, 2017

Briefvoice said:
Eh, the tipping point for me is that Cardassia will definitely accept this while they only might accept the middle option.

I don't particularly care if they refuse - from a strategic viewpoint, cutting off the Dawiar entirely is probably the correct decision. I'm voting for the middle option as an olive branch, not because I particularly care about the 50 BR/SR.

[X][THEMIS] Open the Straits of Themis to limited commerce. Set up an Access Zone, patrolled by Starfleet. (This will act as another border zone, and will have a garrison requirement). In exchange, Cardassia must accept economic concessions (+50 BR/SR a year, limited trade open). Hawks angry, Expansionists annoyed (-26 pp). Cardassia will be unhappy, but may accept this arrangement.

Forgothrax · Oct 18, 2017

pheonix89 said:
Arg, if we didn't have Hayant running around closing the Straits would be the obvious pick.

It still is. Making long term decisions solely influenced by short term problems is a recipe for poor decision making. We have a lame duck fleet admiral, so let's do some stuff that needs doing. High Alert Starfleet, pull from some lower priority sectors to get a significant fleetball with member fleet assistance, and let's go hunt down Hayant. The Cardassians we brutalized not long ago and they're still reeling from that. If they're gonna start shit, forcing it now means they're in the weakest position to do so and paddling them means that we set them back even further than before.

We've chiseled off the Sydraxians from the Pact. Let's do the same with the Lecarre and Dawiar.

lbmaian · Oct 18, 2017

@AKuz, @OneirosTheWriter, my numbers for affiliate and possible member relations:

Latest official sources:

Q2 Snakepit:

OneirosTheWriter said:
Current Federation Full Members:
Humans
Vulcans
Andorians
Tellarites
Amarki
Betazoids
Caitians
Rigellians
Apiata
Indorians
Gaeni
Orions
Caldonians

Pending Ratification
Seyek
Qloath
Risa

Current Federation Affiliates:
Kadeshi 397/500 + 28 = 425/500
Honiani 470/500 + 23 = 493/500
Ked Paddah 366/500 + 33 = 399/500
Laio 305/500 + 43 = 348/500
Tauni 415/500 + 25 = 440/500
Ashidi 277/100 + 17 = 294/500

Currently Known Others Possible Members:
Bajorians 114/100 - Affiliate Status impossible [Cardassian Patronage]
Yrillians 360/100 - Affiliate Membership Internally + Externally Obstructed, but lines of dialogue opened
Dawiar 101/100 - Affiliate Status impossible [Cardassian Client]
Gretarians 160/100 - Affiliate status blocked externally and internally, but the obstacles are being slowly removed
Lamarck 125/100 - Not yet advanced enough
Sydraxians 90/100
Talarians 75/100
Dylaarians 60/100
Hishmeri 64/100
Muuyozoi 55/100
Ittick-ka 54/100
Chrystovians 50/100 + 30 = 80/100
Sotaw 60/100
Licori 110/100 + 17 - Affiliate Status impossible [Recently at war, Romulan Influence]
Gorn 25/100
Lecarrens -30/100
Konen - x/100
Goshawnar - x/100
Imelak - x/100

Q2 Snakepit results:

OneirosTheWriter said:
Sydraxians 130/100 + (34 / 2 = 17) = 164/100
Yrillians 360/100 + 24 = 384/100
Licori 110/100 + 28 = 138/100
Muuyozoi 55/100 + 24 = 79/100

Q2.M1 CL:

Leila Hann said:
[lose -25 relations with Honiani]

Q2.M2 CL:

Iron Wolf said:
[+25 relations with Muuyozoi]
[+25 relations with the Chrystovians]

Q2.M3 CL:

AKuz said:
[+10 relations with Hishmeri. +1 BR]
[+25 Ashidi Relationship. Salnas gains +1 Crew Rating]

Q3.M2 CL:

AKuz said:
[+5PP. +5 Ashidi Relations]
[First Contact: Shanpurr. Starting Relationship 50/100]

Q3 Ex Atris, Scientia results:

OneirosTheWriter said:
Sydraxians 164/100 + 9 = 175/100
Yrillians 384/100 + 9 = 393/100
Licori 138/100 + 29 = 167/100

Q4 Qloathi:

OneirosTheWriter said:
The Qloathi Republic is now a full member

Q4 Seyek:

OneirosTheWriter said:
The Seyek-Fiiral Union is now a full member

Q4 Well, They Try (note: numbers updated to match mine):

OneirosTheWriter said:
Sydraxians 157/100 + 19 = 176/100
Yrillians 393/100 + 35 = 428/100
Licori 184/100 + 7 = 191/100

Q4.M1 CL:

AKuz said:
[+10PP, +5 Shanpurr Relations]

My own numbers, with annotations noting any discrepancies:

Current Federation Full Members:
Humans
Vulcans
Andorians
Tellarites
Amarki
Betazoids
Caitians
Rigellians
Apiata
Indorians
Gaeni
Orions
Caldonians
Qloathi
Seyek

Pending Ratification
Risa

Current Federation Affiliates:
Kadeshi 425/500
Honiani 468/500
Yan-Ros 471/500 - merged with Honiani in Q2 snakepit, but I'm still including their affiliation bonus for 2319 (what to do about their 0.15 O/E/T affiliation bonus going forward is an open question)
Ked Paddah 399/500
Laio 348/500 - reached 300+ in 2318.Q4.M3 but still no major affiliation bonuses yet
Tauni 440/500 - reached 300+ in 2317.Q3.M1 but still no major affiliation bonuses yet
Ashidi 324/500 - reached 300+ in 2319.Q2.M3 but still no major affiliation bonuses yet

Currently Known Others Possible Members:
Bajorans 114/100 - Affiliate Status impossible [Cardassian Patronage]
Yrillians 428/100 - Affiliate Membership Internally + Externally Obstructed, but lines of dialogue opened
Dawiar 101/100 - Affiliate Status impossible [Cardassian Client]
Gretarians 160/100 - Affiliate status blocked externally and internally, but the obstacles are being slowly removed , but now no longer Sydraxian clients
Lamarck 125/100 - Not yet advanced enough
Sydraxians 176/100 - Affiliate Status blocked due to ?

2317 Q2 Snakepit annual: reset to 50
2317 Q2 Snakepit diplo push: +10 ("19 / 2 = 10")
2317 Q2.M2 CL Voshov: +5
2317 Q3.M1 CL Tarrak: +10
2317 Q4.M2 CL Cheron: +15 (and embassy established)
2318 Q2 Snakepit annual: +16
2318 Q4.M1 CL Cheron: +25
2319 Q2 Snakepit diplo push: +17 ("34 / 2 = 17")
2319 Q3 EAS diplo push: +9
2319 Q4 WTT diplo push: +19
Total as of 2319 EOY: 176

Talarians 75/100
Dylaarians 60/100
Hishmeri 74/100
Muuyozoi 104/100 - Affiliate Status blocked due to ?
Ittick-ka 54/100
Chrystovians 105/100 - Affiliate Status blocked due to ?
Sotaw 60/100
Licori 191/100 - Affiliate Status impossible [Recently at war, Romulan Influence]

2318 EOY: 110
2319 Snakepit annual: +17
2319 Snakepit diplo push: +28
2319 EAS diplo push: +29
2319 WTT diplo push: +7
Total as of 2319 EOY: 191

Gorn 25/100
Shanpurr 55/100
Lecarrens -30/100
Konen - x/100
Goshawnar - x/100
Imelak - x/100

edit: noted that Laio, Tauni, and Ashidi now have 300+ relations but still don't have major affiliation bonuses yet

ClawClawBite · Oct 18, 2017

AKuz said:
I think forever. Like Spartans, Starfleet ships are only ever MIA.

> : P

And the Lion showed we were right to do so.

(The paperwork when they come back is much easier).

MTB · Oct 18, 2017

[><] Abstain. I was content with not playing an Empire game.

Random Member · Oct 18, 2017

[X][THEMIS] Open the Straits of Themis to limited commerce. Set up an Access Zone, patrolled by Starfleet. (This will act as another border zone, and will have a garrison requirement). In exchange, Cardassia must accept economic concessions (+50 BR/SR a year, limited trade open). Hawks angry, Expansionists annoyed (-26 pp). Cardassia will be unhappy, but may accept this arrangement.

Even leaving out Hayant, I don't feel much for another GBZ escalation. If we can extract Cardassian concessions, maybe we can send a signal to the rest of Ashalla Pact that the Cardassians aren't that strong after all. We can crew the Zone and atleast this one will only annoy not anger the Expansionists.

Gravitas Hunt · Oct 18, 2017

[X][THEMIS] Open the Straits of Themis to limited commerce. Set up an Access Zone, patrolled by Starfleet. (This will act as another border zone, and will have a garrison requirement). In exchange, Cardassia must accept economic concessions (+50 BR/SR a year, limited trade open). Hawks angry, Expansionists annoyed (-26 pp). Cardassia will be unhappy, but may accept this arrangement.

Looking at the map, it's not going to make much difference as regards the Lecarré no matter what we do, as they're rimward of both the Qloathi and the Seyek, and they're the ones to worry about.

Artemis1992 · Oct 18, 2017

[X][THEMIS] Close the Straits of Themis entirely. Pacifists and Mercantilists upset (-19 pp), Cardassians livid. (Risk of alliance with Hayant, risk of escalation in GBZ)

To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

Daydreaming CPU

One and Many

a thirsty squirrel

Cabal Core Commander

anonymous user

One and Many

Not Going Gently

Don't think this means you've won!

One and Many

Don't think this means you've won!

anonymous user

One and Many

Wants to be Seven Of Nine

One and Many

Don't think this means you've won!

Not Going Gently

a thirsty squirrel

Mad Engineering!

Gardener of Human Happiness

On one, not scared