To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
- Location
- Germany
[X] [PLAN] Base Plan Re-balancing Analysis
[X] [SHIELDS] Andorian Academy : 2320s Deflector Shields
[X] [DOCTRINE] Games & Theory Division : Decisive Battle Doctrine
[X] [STARBASE] Henn-Makad Engineering Institute : 2310s Starbase Design - Repair
[X][BOOST] Tiger Team, Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute, Generic Teams 2, 3, 4.
All these boosts are so inefficient. We really need more tech teams. (OK, for generic teams researching a single path technology boosts aren't that bad.)
[X] [SHIELDS] Andorian Academy : 2320s Deflector Shields
[X] [DOCTRINE] Games & Theory Division : Decisive Battle Doctrine
[X] [STARBASE] Henn-Makad Engineering Institute : 2310s Starbase Design - Repair
[X][BOOST] Tiger Team, Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute, Generic Teams 2, 3, 4.
All these boosts are so inefficient. We really need more tech teams. (OK, for generic teams researching a single path technology boosts aren't that bad.)
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Fortunately, we've got a LOT coming up.
Ratifications are worth a team, sometimes two. And we have three pending ratifications plus two affiliates at 500.
- Location
- somewhere
A single boost saving a year of research for a skilled team is pretty efficient IMO.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
In Excelsis is actually fairly viable now, since we could build the proposed New Model Cruiser as an Explorer, designate for IE, and it would likely build in 3 years. Could result in a ship with 3/3/3 crewing too.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Remember we have to pay war support to federalize member ships. Admittedly in the Arcadian Crisis we got ~16 ships for free but I suspect going forwards we'll have to pay for them.
Also I think you missed the really important thing:
We're not just talking about getting a quarter of member fleets for free, no we're talking getting half of member and affiliate fleets for free. Normally we can't access affiliate fleets at all even in a SoE.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
We were able to coordinate with the Gaeni during the Arcadian crisis, it just required an External Diplomacy action. So this isn't a huge upgrade, although it does save us some actions.
[X] [PLAN] Base Plan Re-balancing Analysis
[X] [SHIELDS] Andorian Academy : 2320s Deflector Shields
[X] [DOCTRINE] Games & Theory Division : Decisive Battle Doctrine
[X] [STARBASE] Henn-Makad Engineering Institute : 2310s Starbase Design - Repair
[X][BOOST] Tiger Team, Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute, Generic Teams 2, 3, 4.
[X] [SHIELDS] Andorian Academy : 2320s Deflector Shields
[X] [DOCTRINE] Games & Theory Division : Decisive Battle Doctrine
[X] [STARBASE] Henn-Makad Engineering Institute : 2310s Starbase Design - Repair
[X][BOOST] Tiger Team, Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute, Generic Teams 2, 3, 4.
I wonder if its rounded up. Stealing some Lamarck-like affiliates lone ship for our fleet of doom would be hilarious.
So. *throws text at screen*
I can't get into the visible sheet to edit right now, but cutting out the member contribution for feeder shaves the supply down so that we are no longer at risk of taking all the space lift capacity in the Federation. Yay!
May end up brute forcing it with a series of separate sheets and increasing subdivision as I cut the problem into solvable parts with an axe.
Also, large parts of this are beyond my ability to script at this time. I may just set it up to look 4 years ahead in one year increments and update each set manually?
Estimates about income increases are going to be trickier - I may need to actually learn to read that part of the ship building sheet.
Noted, correction pending.
Whoops!
I can't get into the visible sheet to edit right now, but cutting out the member contribution for feeder shaves the supply down so that we are no longer at risk of taking all the space lift capacity in the Federation. Yay!
Noted, pending.
Supply works as reported with Gabriel included into the general pool, including auxiliary craft. I am loath to split off that sector until I finish with the other issues.
Interesting thought. Not touching it yet. Too much to do before that.
Yeah, I'm going to be tearing some things out of this and rolling out some new calculation sheets, looks like... Learning experiences!
Not sure how to do parts of this yet - it will be an education for me in google sheets.
May end up brute forcing it with a series of separate sheets and increasing subdivision as I cut the problem into solvable parts with an axe.
Also, large parts of this are beyond my ability to script at this time. I may just set it up to look 4 years ahead in one year increments and update each set manually?
Estimates about income increases are going to be trickier - I may need to actually learn to read that part of the ship building sheet.
During the Arcadian Crisis we got for free (?) the following ships:
UES Liberty, Excelsior-class, C6 S5 H4 L5 P5 D6
UES Jupiter, Constellation-class, C3 S2 H2 L2 P2 D3
UES Calgary, Miranda-A-class, C3 S2 H2 L3 P1 D2
UES Shanghai, Miranda-A-class, C3 S2 H2 L3 P1 D2
UES Yorkshire, Miranda-A-class, C3 S2 H2 L3 P1 D2
Total Combat: 6+3+3+3+3 = 18C
RDS Yagad-Tich, Megatortoise-class, C6 S4 H8 L9 P3 D3
RDS Hadabat, Turtleship-class, C4 S4 H5 L5 P4 D3
RDS Monsad, Turtleship-class, C4 S4 H5 L5 P4 D3
RDS Pagatat, Turtleship-class, C4 S4 H5 L5 P4 D3
RDS Oda-Gach-3, Oda-Gach-class Cutter, C2 S4 H1 L2 P4 D2
RDS Oda-Gach-4, Oda-Gach-class Cutter, C2 S4 H1 L2 P4 D2
RDS Oda-Gach-5, Oda-Gach-class Cutter, C2 S4 H1 L2 P4 D2
Total Combat: 6+4+4+4+2+2+2 = 24C
BDS Radlawxa, Patrol Cruiser-class, C3 S2 H3 L3 P5 D3
BDS Harmony, Centaur-A-class, C3 S2 H2 L2 P2 D2
BDS Astute, Patroller-class, C2 S1 H1 L2 P2 D2
BDS Assist, Patroller-class, C2 S1 H1 L2 P2 D2
Total Combat: 3+3+2+2 = 10C
So all told we got 52C for free in the Arcadia Crisis. Meanwhile according to the Member and Affiliates Fleets sheet the Federation's Member and Affiliate Fleets currently total 1023C of which 25% is 255C. The entirety of Starfleet for comparison comes to a total of 261C.
Of course If we just look at the three races who contribute here (Human, Rigellian, and Betazoid) then the Betazoids has 32C, Humans 47C, and Rigellians 60C. So at 25% we'd get 8C, 12C, and 15C for a total of 35C. Significantly less then what we got in the Arcadian Crisis for free(?).
UES Liberty, Excelsior-class, C6 S5 H4 L5 P5 D6
UES Jupiter, Constellation-class, C3 S2 H2 L2 P2 D3
UES Calgary, Miranda-A-class, C3 S2 H2 L3 P1 D2
UES Shanghai, Miranda-A-class, C3 S2 H2 L3 P1 D2
UES Yorkshire, Miranda-A-class, C3 S2 H2 L3 P1 D2
Total Combat: 6+3+3+3+3 = 18C
RDS Yagad-Tich, Megatortoise-class, C6 S4 H8 L9 P3 D3
RDS Hadabat, Turtleship-class, C4 S4 H5 L5 P4 D3
RDS Monsad, Turtleship-class, C4 S4 H5 L5 P4 D3
RDS Pagatat, Turtleship-class, C4 S4 H5 L5 P4 D3
RDS Oda-Gach-3, Oda-Gach-class Cutter, C2 S4 H1 L2 P4 D2
RDS Oda-Gach-4, Oda-Gach-class Cutter, C2 S4 H1 L2 P4 D2
RDS Oda-Gach-5, Oda-Gach-class Cutter, C2 S4 H1 L2 P4 D2
Total Combat: 6+4+4+4+2+2+2 = 24C
BDS Radlawxa, Patrol Cruiser-class, C3 S2 H3 L3 P5 D3
BDS Harmony, Centaur-A-class, C3 S2 H2 L2 P2 D2
BDS Astute, Patroller-class, C2 S1 H1 L2 P2 D2
BDS Assist, Patroller-class, C2 S1 H1 L2 P2 D2
Total Combat: 3+3+2+2 = 10C
So all told we got 52C for free in the Arcadia Crisis. Meanwhile according to the Member and Affiliates Fleets sheet the Federation's Member and Affiliate Fleets currently total 1023C of which 25% is 255C. The entirety of Starfleet for comparison comes to a total of 261C.
Of course If we just look at the three races who contribute here (Human, Rigellian, and Betazoid) then the Betazoids has 32C, Humans 47C, and Rigellians 60C. So at 25% we'd get 8C, 12C, and 15C for a total of 35C. Significantly less then what we got in the Arcadian Crisis for free(?).
The Gaeni were already at war with the Licori there though and as you say it did take an External Diplomacy action. This is automatic with every Affiliate.
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Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
[X] [PLAN] Base Plan Re-balancing Analysis
[X] [SHIELDS] Andorian Academy : 2320s Deflector Emitters
[X] [DOCTRINE] Games & Theory Division : Decisive Battle Doctrine
[X] [STARBASE] Henn-Makad Engineering Institute : 2310s Starbase Design - Repair
[X][BOOST] Tiger Team, Taves Nar, Generic Teams 2, 3, 4.
[X] [SHIELDS] Andorian Academy : 2320s Deflector Emitters
[X] [DOCTRINE] Games & Theory Division : Decisive Battle Doctrine
[X] [STARBASE] Henn-Makad Engineering Institute : 2310s Starbase Design - Repair
[X][BOOST] Tiger Team, Taves Nar, Generic Teams 2, 3, 4.
Winged One
Not the Simurgh
- Location
- definitely the ground
- Pronouns
- They/Them/It
I get the impression that we can ask for affiliate fleets with a diplomacy action, but they can say no.
- Location
- Austin, TX
[X][PLAN] Base Plan Re-balancing Analysis
[X][STARBASE] Henn-Makad Engineering Institute : 2310s Starbase Design - Combat
[X][SHIELDS] Andorian Academy : 2320s Deflector Shields
[X][BOOST] Tiger Team, Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute, Generic Teams 2, 3, 4.
[X][DOCTRINE] Games & Theory Division: Base Strike Doctrine
[X][STARBASE] Henn-Makad Engineering Institute : 2310s Starbase Design - Combat
[X][SHIELDS] Andorian Academy : 2320s Deflector Shields
[X][BOOST] Tiger Team, Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute, Generic Teams 2, 3, 4.
[X][DOCTRINE] Games & Theory Division: Base Strike Doctrine
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Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
- Location
- Getter Valhalla
[X] [PLAN] Plan Re-balancing Analysis
[X] [SHIELDS] Andorian Academy : 2320s Deflector Emitters
[X] [DOCTRINE] Games & Theory Division : Decisive Battle Doctrine
[X] [STARBASE] Henn-Makad Engineering Institute : 2310s Starbase Design - Combat
[X][BOOST] Tiger Team, Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute, Generic Teams 2, 3, 4
[X] [SHIELDS] Andorian Academy : 2320s Deflector Emitters
[X] [DOCTRINE] Games & Theory Division : Decisive Battle Doctrine
[X] [STARBASE] Henn-Makad Engineering Institute : 2310s Starbase Design - Combat
[X][BOOST] Tiger Team, Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute, Generic Teams 2, 3, 4
- Location
- Central Standard Time
I mean, we got the Riala from the Amarki during the Biophage crisis, so it's certainly possible.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I would like to remind everyone to vote Combat for Starbases if you want Repair faster...
[X][PLAN] Base Plan Re-balancing Analysis
-[X] San Francisco Fleetyards : 2320s Starship Safety
-[X] Inid Uttar Institute : 2330s Anti-Cloaking Sensors
-[X] Admiral Lathriss : Mutual Support
-[X] Kuznetsova's Tiger Team : Klingon Research
-[X] Technocracy Interstellar Ministry : Cardassian Research
[X][STARBASE] Henn-Makad Engineering Institute : 2310s Starbase Design - Combat
[X][SHIELDS] Andorian Academy : 2320s Deflector Emitters
[X][BOOST] Tiger Team, Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute, Generic Teams 2, 3, 4.
[X][DOCTRINE] Games & Theory Division: Base Strike Doctrine
-[X] San Francisco Fleetyards : 2320s Starship Safety
-[X] Inid Uttar Institute : 2330s Anti-Cloaking Sensors
-[X] Admiral Lathriss : Mutual Support
-[X] Kuznetsova's Tiger Team : Klingon Research
-[X] Technocracy Interstellar Ministry : Cardassian Research
[X][STARBASE] Henn-Makad Engineering Institute : 2310s Starbase Design - Combat
[X][SHIELDS] Andorian Academy : 2320s Deflector Emitters
[X][BOOST] Tiger Team, Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute, Generic Teams 2, 3, 4.
[X][DOCTRINE] Games & Theory Division: Base Strike Doctrine
I just want to note a few things:
Crit rate is nuts. Literally, a single crit has won us battles.
And focusing fire on wounded ships is also nuts. It's the best attack pattern by far.
Furthermore:
Overall, Decisive Battle has worse tools for decisive battle than Base Strike. I actually would rather not have Decisive Battle's attack pattern, as shield+combat means we'll end up pounding on an outpost for days while the fleet gets shredded around us. It's actually unhelpful.
The industry boosts are a thing, but not so much that I'd want it over actually good combat boosts.
[X] [PLAN] Plan Re-balancing Analysis
[X] [BOOST] Tiger Team, Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute, Generic Teams 2, 3, 4.
[X] [SHIELDS] Andorian Academy : 2320s Deflector Emitters
[X] [STARBASE] Henn-Makad Engineering Institute : 2310s Starbase Design - Combat
[X] [DOCTRINE] Games & Theory Division: Base Strike Doctrine
[X] [BOOST] Tiger Team, Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute, Generic Teams 2, 3, 4.
Will note that even though I'm voting for Deflector Emitters, I'm still favoring an earlier combat frigate design - I just don't think T3 shields are necessary for it. Rather, I'd like the SR discount for the mid-2320s light explorer project.
Make no mistake everyone. Base Strike is better at fighting than Decisive Battle.
Crit rate is nuts. Literally, a single crit has won us battles.
And focusing fire on wounded ships is also nuts. It's the best attack pattern by far.
Furthermore:
Oneiros has stated that there is no significant difference between Galaxy Wing and Attack Pattern Omega. So you'll expect a 50% boost in Galaxy Wing too.
Overall, Decisive Battle has worse tools for decisive battle than Base Strike. I actually would rather not have Decisive Battle's attack pattern, as shield+combat means we'll end up pounding on an outpost for days while the fleet gets shredded around us. It's actually unhelpful.
The industry boosts are a thing, but not so much that I'd want it over actually good combat boosts.
[X] [PLAN] Plan Re-balancing Analysis
[X] [BOOST] Tiger Team, Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute, Generic Teams 2, 3, 4.
[X] [SHIELDS] Andorian Academy : 2320s Deflector Emitters
[X] [STARBASE] Henn-Makad Engineering Institute : 2310s Starbase Design - Combat
[X] [DOCTRINE] Games & Theory Division: Base Strike Doctrine
[X] [BOOST] Tiger Team, Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute, Generic Teams 2, 3, 4.
Will note that even though I'm voting for Deflector Emitters, I'm still favoring an earlier combat frigate design - I just don't think T3 shields are necessary for it. Rather, I'd like the SR discount for the mid-2320s light explorer project.
Make no mistake everyone. Base Strike is better at fighting than Decisive Battle.
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- Location
- Austin, TX
To clarify the point being made, Tavis Nar will be a rank 4 team next year, and there are 3 techs to research. As the job will not be completed in two years, the research points lost for a one year delay will easily be made up.
However, looking at the differences... really don't work out to much. 8 years, with one of the three techs occasionally finishing a couple years early, depending on the random 5. I'm on the busy side at the sec, as I don't completely trust my results, but even with a couple of boosts, finishing by year 7 with the T4 team looks shaky, again depending on how the random 5 lands over the years.
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
- Location
- Laniakea Supercluster
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Entirely unrelated, but seeing the list of major worlds added to the map earlier made me want to look up hypotheticals. For example, the Honiani seem to be on a very expansionist kick lately, and it seems they, the Obar, and possibly even the Yan-Ros will be ratifying as a group. So, what if they entered the Federation first, and all elected Expansionist Councillors?
Okatha, Obar, Vail, Becata, Ucuta, and Canun make up six seats, the equivalent of the entire Tellar Sector. The Expansionists would thus grow from 10 seats to a 16 seat plurality, and another X-P coalition forming would have a 52% majority.
Also, having Rigel Sector that big would be even more ridiculous than shoving Alukk into Ferasa, so some borders would have to get redrawn.
Okatha, Obar, Vail, Becata, Ucuta, and Canun make up six seats, the equivalent of the entire Tellar Sector. The Expansionists would thus grow from 10 seats to a 16 seat plurality, and another X-P coalition forming would have a 52% majority.
Also, having Rigel Sector that big would be even more ridiculous than shoving Alukk into Ferasa, so some borders would have to get redrawn.
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- Location
- somewhere
Taves Nar working on both levels of Repair would finish 2320s Repair in 2331, with about a 30% chance of needing a boost.
Henn-Makad would finish 2320s Repair in 2332, no boost needed.
Taves Nar would finish 2320s Combat in 2328, no boost.
Henn-Makad would finish 2320s Combat in 2329, no boost.
So Taves Nar overall is a bit more efficient on Combat (no boost and a year saved over a shorter time frame), but in the end it's a year difference either way.
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A direct comparison of Base Strike and Decisive Battle. Ignoring Wolf Pack because. Bolding the areas where one doctrine has an obvious and useful advantage over the other.
| Base Strike | Decisive Battle | |
| Crit Rate |
+Improved critical rate +Critical rate increased |
+Frigate crit rate |
|
Fleet Value (firing chance vs enemy) |
+Reduce enemy fleet value (note: fleet value is zero sum) +2% per EC ship |
+0.25% per ship to max of 5% |
| Capital Firing Chance | +50% capitals source of fire | +50% capitals source of fire |
| Composition | +More cruisers in Vanguard | |
| Damage Buffs | +5% damage & 2% burnthrough vs structures | +Increased damage to cruisers in Vanguard |
| Evasion | -halve enemy cruiser and capital ship evasion | |
| Targetting Priorities |
+Starbases/Outposts +Hull+HP Lost |
+Shield+Combat +Reduce enemy sticky-targeting based on total frigate D vs enemy frigate D +Increased enemy chance of hitting frigates over capitals +50% increased enemy chance of hitting capitals |
| Stat Boosts |
+1H, +1L for Starbases/Outposts +1L when outnumbered or defending Starbase |
+2S for scouting +1L at reduced evasion and D (chosen per ship) |
| Minefields | +Increased detection | +1S for frigate minesweeping |
| Crew |
-20% round down for one capital ship +1 all EC recruitment |
+15% academy +Crew loss reduction (note: this is a hidden roll) |
| Build Time | -25% reduction for one capital ship (4Q savings at minimum) | -1Q all ships |
| PP Discounts |
+Free Starbase per new member without +Cheaper shipyards |
+Cheaper shipyards and related |
| Out-of-Combat Rolls |
-2 enemy intercept +2 avoid BZ intercepts +2 to defend colony/installation |
+2 to initiating battle |
| Strategic Bonuses | +Improved minefields |
+United Fleet Sector +Further reduced garrison requirements in war +25% Free Affiliate and Member Fleets |
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Make no mistake everyone, this is not true when an outpost/starbase is not involved in the fight.
Yes Coordinated Fire is pretty nice, but let's not make the mistake of obsessing about one single slide.
Galaxy Wing = Attack Pattern Omega
Steamrunner Wing = Torpedo Charge (Seems likely; flavor strongly implies Steamrunner Wing's increased crit rate is limited to frigates.)
Spearhead < Sensor Pickets (as I said)
If we look at battles not involving fighting around an Outpost or Starbase
Base Strike has: Coordinated Fire + 1/2 of Nor Battle to the Strong
Decisive Battle has: Feints, Battle Bridge Link, Vanguard, and Auxiliary to Shields
Pretty sure those four together are better than Coordinated Fire.
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