To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

lbmaian · Jul 5, 2017

Gingganz said:
I wonder whether we may have to bite the bullet and update the Combat Escort requirements. There seems to be a lot of desire for a new Combat Frigate, and I agree, but last I heard keeping SR below 60 is just not feasible.

(I am not conversant with Ship Design, so correct me if I am wrong.)

1) Most of those combat frigate proposal have high science (S) and reaction (D), which brings up the SR cost. It's not clear they'll need such high stats if we're using Keplers for primary mine detection (like Oberth) and scouting (like Centaur-A), and beyond those uses, S/D stats are far less influential in fleet battle than C/H/L stats. There's still the school of thought that we should have a direct Miranda-A replacement - a SR and crew-cheap spammable frigate for pure combat potential.

This might still require upping the SR limit, but not necessarily to the same extent as the near-generalist frigate that the most common SDB combat frigate proposals require.

2) We won't be starting a combat frigate design until after the Kepler research project is finished in 2 years.

3) It increases militarization.

So if we're going to update the combat frigate role requirements, we should wait until we're ready to start researching a design for one.

Briefvoice said:
It means this report was on going to war with Cardassia and its allies. If you prefer, next report could be on a war with the Romulans or whomever you'd pick.

You're probably right - the wording is just confusing, because the only other time the word "scenario" is used is in the previous War Games paragraph.

Briefvoice · Jul 5, 2017

Gingganz said:
I wonder whether we may have to bite the bullet and update the Combat Escort requirements. There seems to be a lot of desire for a new Combat Frigate, and I agree, but last I heard keeping SR below 60 is just not feasible.

(I am not conversant with Ship Design, so correct me if I am wrong.)

Design at 60 SR exactly.

Nix · Jul 5, 2017

ThoughtMaster said:
... We really need to start building more prospectors to deal with the glut of mining opportunities in Gabriel before the Cardassians do. Quick question, what are the costs required to build prospectors, because if they are BR intensive, than we should be able to build a large amount of them?

We are currently mostly limited by engineering and logistic ships, there are a bunch of possible mining colonies at discovered locations we aren't building.

Gnarker · Jul 5, 2017

OneirosTheWriter said:
Not quite - for modifying them. The critical industry expansion lowers route penalty, the extra shipyards increases them simples

Any other ways to influence the logistics penalties? Say, influencing industrial growth so that new hubs are closer to both shipyards and mines. Additional Critical Infrastructure and Logistics Routes at and through Alukk, Ferasa, Arqueniou, or Apinae, or simply further expanding Amarkia? As soon as the respective species are members, anyway.

I think my ideal supply network once all high-level Affiliates have joined would be far more interconnected and redundant than the current one seems to be.
For the Eastern Federation, say, two-way routes at Amarkia<=>Alukk<=>(Ferasa and/or Merfara) and Vintus<=>Themis, possibly also Celos => Merfara,
and hierarchical routes at
- Tellar Prime => Ord Grind Duk => Alukk => Celos => Themis => (Indoria, Rethelia, Fiiral, and Arqueniou),
- Andor => Landle => Ferasa => Merfara => Arqueniou => Fiiral => Rethelia,
- and an additional crossbranch Merfara => Themis

Additional questions:
- No flanking skirmish theatre south of the Themis front? Those isolated mines to the far south of Cardassian space look really vulnerable to being raided by us, and/or used as staging bases to raid behind Galundun.
- Partly related, any chance we could expand fortifications and forward outposts into the empty gap south of Gabriel, or towards the south-west of Seyek space?

Gear said:
If we designed a Rennie based engineering ship, could we fit an Engineering Team on just one of them?

Also send along a Superfreighter.

ThoughtMaster · Jul 5, 2017

Nix said:
We are currently mostly limited by engineering and logistic ships, there are a bunch of possible mining colonies at discovered locations we aren't building.

Hmm, how much could we build if we devoted a single shipyard choice to have it construct only support vessels like engineering and logistics? Another question is how long does it take for said vessels to be constructed?

pheonix89 · Jul 5, 2017

Briefvoice said:
Design at 60 SR exactly.

That's from April, dude.

[x][REPORT] Improving the Cardassian Readiness report

UberJJK · Jul 5, 2017

[X][ROLES] Do Nothing [2.0x Weighting on this vote]
[X][REPORT] Improving the Cardassian Readiness report

I'm curious as to why the Sydraxians feature so heavily in this report. Last I recall the Sydraxian government had fallen apart and were pulling pretty heavily away from the Cardassians. Similarly I'm surprised the Yrillians are listed as such a high threat given how high we've pumped our relationship with them.

Nervos Belli · Jul 5, 2017

UberJJK said:
[X][ROLES] Do Nothing [2.0x Weighting on this vote]
[X][REPORT] Improving the Cardassian Readiness report

I'm curious as to why the Sydraxians feature so heavily in this report. Last I recall the Sydraxian government had fallen apart and were pulling pretty heavily away from the Cardassians. Similarly I'm surprised the Yrillians are listed as such a high threat given how high we've pumped our relationship with them.

Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

Jenny · Jul 5, 2017

Briefvoice said:
Design at 60 SR exactly.

Doesn't meet the requirement for a Large Tactical Frame.

Thebigpieman · Jul 5, 2017

UberJJK said:
I'm curious as to why the Sydraxians feature so heavily in this report. Last I recall the Sydraxian government had fallen apart and were pulling pretty heavily away from the Cardassians. Similarly I'm surprised the Yrillians are listed as such a high threat given how high we've pumped our relationship with them.

Never go full optimist.

Glassware · Jul 5, 2017

Nervos Belli said:
Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

With that in mind it's heartening that even in the worst-case Intel doesn't think the Dawiar will actually bother to fight us.

ThoughtMaster · Jul 5, 2017

Thebigpieman said:
Never go full optimist.

I thought going full optimist was the entire point of the Federation itself?

Briefvoice · Jul 5, 2017

pheonix89 said:
That's from April, dude.

Is it being from April not good or something?

lbmaian · Jul 5, 2017

Briefvoice said:
Is it being from April not good or something?

Outdated sheet version. Don't have access to sheet currently, or else I'd reproduce on current sheet version and verify.

UberJJK · Jul 5, 2017

Nervos Belli said:
Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

Thebigpieman said:
Never go full optimist.

At the same time it's important not to overestimate the likelihood of a threat. Unless we're confident that the Sydraxians and Yrillians will join the Cardassians in a Cardassian-Federation war we'd be better off allocating our time, resources, and ships to reinforcing the various weakpoints alongside the Cardassia-Federation border rather then the Sydraxians /Yrillian-Federation border.

Basically if we assume the Sydraxians and Yrillians don't join in the war suddenly looks very different.

Glassware · Jul 5, 2017

UberJJK said:
At the same time it's important not to overestimate the likelihood of a threat. Unless we're confident that the Sydraxians and Yrillians will join the Cardassians in a Cardassian-Federation war we'd be better off allocating our time, resources, and ships to reinforcing the various weakpoints alongside the Cardassia-Federation border rather then the Sydraxians /Yrillian-Federation border.

Basically if we assume the Sydraxians and Yrillians don't join in the war suddenly looks very different.

It seems likely that no matter what we do, the Cardassians will be able to hire some Yrillian pirates, though. We just plain can't ensure the loyalties of every Yrillian work-gang.

AlphaDelta · Jul 5, 2017

OneirosTheWriter said:
Captain Alexandria Kuznetsova, Chief, Starfleet Tactical Tiger Team

Isn't Kuznetsova currently assigned to Deputy Director, Starfleet Battle Management Division as per the 2313 Rat Race Post?

nocarename · Jul 5, 2017

*scatter shot replies*

ThoughtMaster said:
Hmm, how much could we build if we devoted a single shipyard choice to have it construct only support vessels like engineering and logistics? Another question is how long does it take for said vessels to be constructed?

We have an auxillary ship yard of 4x1mt berths. It isn't keeping up. It's only going to get worse once we start putting out the Rennie based hospital ships too, which is going to want even more of our build capacity.

OneirosTheWriter said:
2 Years - Civ, Cargo, Prospector, Engineer
3 Years - Freighter, Colony, Research, Passenger
4 Years - Super-Freighter

OneirosTheWriter said:
Freighters don't get built in anything under 1mt, but Cargo ships I'll build in anything 400kt+). Super-Freighters are 2mt+.

Please don't ask what the minimum sizes are for the other auxiliaries.

UberJJK said:
I'm curious as to why the Sydraxians feature so heavily in this report. Last I recall the Sydraxian government had fallen apart and were pulling pretty heavily away from the Cardassians. Similarly I'm surprised the Yrillians are listed as such a high threat given how high we've pumped our relationship with them.

The Yrillians are a kaleidoscope. The parts are consistent, but nudge them a little too much and what you get looks completely different. Their factions have factions.
The Sydraxians have pushed at us, from admittedly our own perspective, beyond reason already. I suspect that the briefing notes for the FDS on the region are a shrug, low profile body armor and a wish for good luck.

chriswriter90 · Jul 5, 2017

OneirosTheWriter said:
You have the first of Pathe Lathriss' new Defence Readiness reports, an annual thing he plans to implement. It is a bit of an eye-opener, but so far it still has a lot of holes in it that you would like to see fleshed out. He knows that, of course, but trying to introduce a little of the Amarkian approach to preparation into even Starfleet Tactical Command is not an overnight process. You can see this being of great value in the future, however.

Amarki continuing to pull their weight in everything they touch.

[X][ROLES] Do Nothing [2.0x Weighting on this vote]

UbeOne · Jul 5, 2017

[X][ROLES] Do Nothing [2.0x Weighting on this vote]

I think they're still okay for now.

Forgothrax · Jul 5, 2017

@lbmaian I have a 75br, 55sr C4 S2 H4 L4 P1 D4 design on the sheet that's 1/3/2 and uses no modules. Lots of space left in the frame and I haven't done a final optimizing pass yet. I'm hoping to fit on P2 but we'll see.

Jenny · Jul 5, 2017

[X][WG] Assault on Starbase 11:
On the Apiata side - Starbase 11 (Grand Hive of the Apinae), one Light Queenship, two Stingers - 2 pp
On the 'Union' side - Renaissance and Enlightenment (two Kaldars), Exeter, Saratoga, Republic, Valiant (four Jalduns), Yukikaze, Gale (two Takaaki Destroyers) - 7 pp
Total of 9 pp, but hopefully doctrine bonuses on base strike?
C36 S26 H26 L34 D36 vs. C22 S16 H22 L33 D21

I could throw in Shield (an Isamu) and T'Mir (Parok (the Researcher Takaaki operating as part of the frontier squadron)), if that seems necessary.

Problems:
1) cost
2) do we want Base Strike as our doctrine? (Personally, I like it, but y'all might see otherwise).
3) do we want to call away Gale from the SBZ for wargames?

Iron Wolf · Jul 5, 2017

[x] anon_user

Thors_Alumni · Jul 5, 2017

[X] anon_user

Nix · Jul 5, 2017

anon_user said:
[X][WG] Assault on Starbase 11:
On the Apiata side - Starbase 11 (Grand Hive of the Apinae), one Light Queenship, two Stingers - 2 pp
On the 'Union' side - Renaissance and Enlightenment (two Kaldars), Exeter, Saratoga, Republic, Valiant (four Jalduns), Yukikaze, Gale (two Takaaki Destroyers) - 7 pp
Total of 9 pp, but hopefully doctrine bonuses on base strike?
C36 S26 H26 L34 D36 vs. C22 S16 H22 L33 D21

I could throw in Shield (an Isamu) and T'Mir (Parok (the Researcher Takaaki operating as part of the frontier squadron)), if that seems necessary.

Problems:
1) cost
2) do we want Base Strike as our doctrine? (Personally, I like it, but y'all might see otherwise).
3) do we want to call away Gale from the SBZ for wargames?

If we really want we could just have 2 Renaissance class and 2 Centaurs/Mirandas assault a Starbase, should be a relatively even fight and should cost only 3 pp. Adding extra ships on both sides almost certainly doesn't add enough value to be worth the extra cost and extra disruption. I'm against it though because I have been looking and haven't found even so much as 4 ships I'd be happy to keep busy with a war game for a quarter. We can't lean too much on the member fleets either because they are already helping with the Hishmeri.

[X][WG] No war game due to a lack of available ships.
[X][ROLES] Do Nothing [2.0x Weighting on this vote]

To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

a thirsty squirrel

Wants to be Seven Of Nine

Don't think this means you've won!

anonymous user

I've got this, I think.

a thirsty squirrel

Daydreaming CPU

Not Going Gently

anonymous user

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