- Location
- Australia
"But don't worry, the Thirishar is on its way to mediate."
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
Winged One
Not the Simurgh
- Location
- definitely the ground
- Pronouns
- They/Them/It
[X][TAUNI] Patroller-A, Constellation-A, and Constitution-A
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
No, no, anything but the Thirishar!
Muramasa
Best Girl
Just a regular Constellation? Why?
Do you mean to be voting for the Constellation rather than the Constellation-A? Because the Constellation is crap. It burns my heart not to give someone a Constellation-A instead. And given the improvements are almost entirely in non-combat stats, I don't see the point in holding back.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Because there's a concern about technology leakage to other powers from the Tauni until they're a closer affiliate to us.
It's not about stats actually - whether they're non-combat or not is irrelevant from a security standpoint. It's more about the modern T1+ parts contained within the modern refits of the Constellation and Miranda.
The unrefit Constellation and Miranda are a compromise: the Tauni can start building the hulls now, and when our relations get closer (like 300+, which will happen in around 2 years), we can share the modern refit designs, which they can upgrade their two or so Constellations/Mirandas by then at a minor cost.
Narratively (for the FDS diplo push prose), it serves as further incentive for the Tauni to get closer with the Federation.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
So, the Federation is getting involved with arms deals. Has Stesk started giving interviews on the subject?
- Location
- Australia
Much less "arms deal", much more, "Tauni can into space? Halp, plz."
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
"Self-determination is the right of all sentient species. The defense of that right is entirely consistent with the principles of the Federation. Now be quiet!"
KlavoHunter
THOU SHALT WORSHIP NO GODS ABOVE ENTERPRISE!
I'd like to argue for the full-feature Constitution-A instead of -B as a proper Explorer, but UbeOne reminded me that the Tau'ni want some firepower to protect themselves.
The lessened build time and expense on the Connie-B over the -A probably looks great as far as they're concerned.
Much like the Miranda or Patroller debate, I say let them figure it out for themselves. If they want the extra Science and Hull of the -A, they can spring for it.
[x][TAUNI] Constitution-A or -B, Constellation, Miranda or Patroller-A Design
The lessened build time and expense on the Connie-B over the -A probably looks great as far as they're concerned.
Much like the Miranda or Patroller debate, I say let them figure it out for themselves. If they want the extra Science and Hull of the -A, they can spring for it.
[x][TAUNI] Constitution-A or -B, Constellation, Miranda or Patroller-A Design
Sneaky! I like it.
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
There's also a question of whether the Tauni could even build a Constie-A, considering it uses technology that's actually quite advanced even for us.
I've used your numbers to correct my post.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Another point is that the Constellation-class has multiple refit paths. Starfleet chose to explore a 'pacifist' refit that was highly desirable for us because we'd already chosen to standardize on other (more expensive, more powerful) ship classes as our main frontline fighting cruisers- but we had a pressing need for event responders to take care of general purpose, noncombat duties in our farflung territory.
The Tauni might prefer to refit/modify the 'stock' Constellations differently; they have different needs and resources. Maybe they'd want to try something along the lines of one of the project concepts Starfleet considered and abandoned, but which would give their ships more fighting power than our so-called "Constellation-P" refit has.
And that would be totally okay.
The Tauni might prefer to refit/modify the 'stock' Constellations differently; they have different needs and resources. Maybe they'd want to try something along the lines of one of the project concepts Starfleet considered and abandoned, but which would give their ships more fighting power than our so-called "Constellation-P" refit has.
And that would be totally okay.
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@OneirosTheWriter I have three questions I would like to ask before I render a vote on ships to the Tauni:
1. Is there a limit(technological or Tonnage) to their production?
2. What kind of Mission Profile are they looking for?
3. What are we looking at as likely threats these ships will be facing?
I am 1000% against sending the Patroller-A in any capacity.
1. Is there a limit(technological or Tonnage) to their production?
2. What kind of Mission Profile are they looking for?
3. What are we looking at as likely threats these ships will be facing?
I am 1000% against sending the Patroller-A in any capacity.
You're assuming they have the capability to design their own refit, when even the Vulcans needed Starfleet help to do so.
I think giving them a stock Constellation is really feeding them a turd and calling it lunch. This is not a vessel they're going to refit at some distant date in the future. It's something that they're going to be building starting right now, and a lot of it. By refusing to hand over the refit designs, you're condemning them to build garbage.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@OneirosTheWriter Random thought-- can we get tech progress from Intel reports? For example, we got +Progress to Phase Arrays from meeting the ISC. Could we choose "Report: ISC Weapons" and potentially get further boosts?
I feel like if we could, we could use it on people who aren't paranoid bunker-dwellers. Seems a quick way to play into their wildest fears
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Either be honest, or stop trying to make up your own estimates for what other people are and are not assuming. Doing the latter, while not doing the former, is extremely poor form.
It wouldn't be that hard for us to assist the Tauni in designing a different refit. You know that. We've done more, and stranger, to win over affiliates.
The 'turd' ships you affect to despise (lovely choice of well-poisoning imagery, by the way) are better than what they now have. They present considerable potential to be upgraded, either along the lines we've already charted or (with further help from us) along other lines.
Unless the Tauni are suffering from an overabundance of production capacity for T0 and T1 ship parts (in which case why are they even talking to us?), they need to work up to constructing modern ships in any case. That involves working on TOS/TMP-era designs as a transitional phase.
The Patroller-A and Constitution-B designs present this possibility in an interesting way because they are, at heart, TOS-era designs (T-2) that get retrofitted and amended with T0/T1 parts to increase performance. The Constellations present a different route, representing a complete T-1 ship that provides a sound basis for modern or near-modern shipbuilding techniques as a whole, while having somewhat more similarity to the modern designs the Tauni eventually want to construct.
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I am always honest, it's just that sometimes I don't really care about getting all the facts right, only those I'm actually interested in. That sometimes doesn't seem to mesh well with your debate style, where you care about all the details.
Come on, we in the thread have been calling the stock Constellations 'garbage' and 'awful' and such for many real time months now. I'm not even sure it is better than what they now have... it's that bad a ship! I got no idea what their current designs look like, but I don't know a stock Constellation is any better.
I'd just like to give the Tauni a decent ship now, not give them a not-good ship that can be refit at some future date, likely at the cost of a year extra of yard time per ship.
We've been explicitly told that they can build the refit version.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I feel like if we could, we could use it on people who aren't paranoid bunker-dwellers. Seems a quick way to play into their wildest fears
The vast majority of our Intel seems to come from signals intelligence and other passive observation. I sincerely doubt we will be trying to insert agents into the Is C's weapons division.