To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
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- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
- Location
- Australia
If they are struggling to create the infrastructure already just don't give them a capital ship, if we give them a frigate/cruiser with an upgrade path once they hit 300, they can start their navy now and grow it into a real force in the future.
I could be swayed on providing them a Constellation-A, but I hate the idea of giving a 100 Affiliate the Connie-B designs free and clear, we might as well just release them on the federation network for free instead.
I could be swayed on providing them a Constellation-A, but I hate the idea of giving a 100 Affiliate the Connie-B designs free and clear, we might as well just release them on the federation network for free instead.
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
[x][TAUNI] Constitution-B, Constellation, Miranda or Patroller-A Design
Okay, so the Connie-B is a good combat cruiser and would give them pretty heavyweight shooty for people who aren't the Honiani out that way. The Constellation is kind of a crap cruiser, but it'll give them a cruiser that can do some stuff, and we can offer them refits to -A standard as something for 300-level affiliation. Miranda's a decent combat frigate and can also offer them refits later; Patroller's less a combat ship but it's dirt cheap and easy to fit in a small build and budget, if they're more interested in Second Best Tomorrow. And if they wanted, they could always collaborate with the BDF on further upgrades.
I don't think the Tauni have much use for the Oberth, for the same reason we ultimately didn't; it would explode if too many of the crew sneeze at once, which simply isn't a desirable trait for people who are going into the unknown. It also wouldn't be ultra-useful for self-defense, because only T'Mir is allowed to be The Oberth That Kicks Your Ass. Constie-A has newer equipment we don't really want getting out quite yet. In a few years it'll be less of a deal.
Okay, so the Connie-B is a good combat cruiser and would give them pretty heavyweight shooty for people who aren't the Honiani out that way. The Constellation is kind of a crap cruiser, but it'll give them a cruiser that can do some stuff, and we can offer them refits to -A standard as something for 300-level affiliation. Miranda's a decent combat frigate and can also offer them refits later; Patroller's less a combat ship but it's dirt cheap and easy to fit in a small build and budget, if they're more interested in Second Best Tomorrow. And if they wanted, they could always collaborate with the BDF on further upgrades.
I don't think the Tauni have much use for the Oberth, for the same reason we ultimately didn't; it would explode if too many of the crew sneeze at once, which simply isn't a desirable trait for people who are going into the unknown. It also wouldn't be ultra-useful for self-defense, because only T'Mir is allowed to be The Oberth That Kicks Your Ass. Constie-A has newer equipment we don't really want getting out quite yet. In a few years it'll be less of a deal.
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[x][TAUNI] Constitution-B, Constellation, Miranda or Patroller-A Design
This makes the most sense to me given that they can't really build modern stuff. The Miranda and Constellation refits post-date the Connie-B anyway, and if we're looking at stuff a generation behind that's about the right place. Choice of Miranda (combat) or Patroller (patrol) for similar SR? Seems fine.
[X][FLEET] 2317 Fleet Distribution without shortchanging the LBZ
This makes the most sense to me given that they can't really build modern stuff. The Miranda and Constellation refits post-date the Connie-B anyway, and if we're looking at stuff a generation behind that's about the right place. Choice of Miranda (combat) or Patroller (patrol) for similar SR? Seems fine.
[X][FLEET] 2317 Fleet Distribution without shortchanging the LBZ
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Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
[x][TAUNI] Constellation-A, Patroller-A
Didn't the Amarki try lobbying for Starfleet to adopt the Riala? I think they just found a customer.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Probably going to build at least 1-2 more per year for the next 10-15 years. Likely more since BV is planning 5 next year. They're the most potent singletons we have other than Excelsiors, and an Excelsior costs over double resources. I expect we'll switch to building more Keplers once we have them available but until then Rennies present a combination of our best individual combatants and responders.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
That was a matter of prestige - "Starfleet uses our designs!" They probably won't be nearly so keen on giving it to random backwater scrubs building their first ships, where a Lecarre might nab the design.
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Got a point there.
We can get Ixazza to explain the design to them too!
"Here's the nacelle control room, where you can inadvertently kill your sister."
N'Gir sighs and takes another hit from the flask.
Anyways @OneirosTheWriter if the Tauni decided to use the Connie-B as an Explorer-capital ship a la our original Constitution-As and Excelsiors, would they have to add an extra point of O/E/T? Just basing that off In Excelsis.
"Here's the nacelle control room, where you can inadvertently kill your sister."
N'Gir sighs and takes another hit from the flask.
Anyways @OneirosTheWriter if the Tauni decided to use the Connie-B as an Explorer-capital ship a la our original Constitution-As and Excelsiors, would they have to add an extra point of O/E/T? Just basing that off In Excelsis.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
By the end of the decade we'll have more Rennies than Constitution-Bs, and considerably more Miranda-As. For that matter, the relative fragility of ConnieBee hulls makes them... less than entirely desirable... as frontline combatants, whereas the Renaissance-class can take as much pounding as an Excelsior with twice the size and half again the crew complement.
Rennies are hella tanky.
Now I think that would be grossly unfair, if only because they are literally brand new construction...
I strongly suspect that most of the schematics for the base Constitution-class starship can be found easily given that the design work on the class was done roughly eighty years ago. Cramming the amount of firepower and performance we've done into the hulls is mostly a result of advancing technology and I suspect anyone else could do the same. The bare fact that the Renaissance-class significantly outperforms the ConnieBee using the same technological palette and the same hull size indicates that they are NOT cutting-edge Federation technology.
Another point is that I strongly suspect the Tauni will try to keep these designs secret, simply because they don't want their own enemies learning how to blow up their own ships.
I like this, and I like leaving up to the Tauni whether they want the Miranda-class or Patroller-A class.
[x][TAUNI] Constitution-B, Constellation, Miranda or Patroller-A Design
That is a tremendously fair point to take. I mean, they might not succeed, but I expect them to try as well.
- Location
- USA
[X][TAUNI] May Provide Constitution-B, Constellation-A, Oberth, and Patroller-A Designs
- Location
- Australia
We are not giving them the specs on a hull, we are giving them all they need to know to make a ship, internal tech included. All that 'advanced technology' stuffed inside a Connie-B? Thats what other powers would buy from the Tauni. Enough so that whomever it gets traded to 1st 2nd or 3rd hand may be just that little bit faster, their shields may be a little bit stronger, and they may just detect our ships a little bit easier.
Suspecting The Tauni will try to keep technology a secret is frankly not enough, and at a 100 affiliate, their 'enemies' are not our enemies, and their allies might not be ours.
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
The Tauni have committed to us, on the basis of the fact we will defend them. If they betray us now they cut themselves off from that defense. They've literally escaped species-wide enslavement in living memory. They have no reason to shoot themselves in the foot like that, and it's not as though the Cardassians or Romulans are going to be palatable alternatives.
(Note, taken a while to put this together with distractions, so apologies if the conversation has moved on)
EDIT NOTICE: Had some numbers wrong. Doesn't really change my conclusions. Numbers corrected.
To compare our current capital/cruiser designs (so no Constitution-B as we won't be building any more):
Figures pulled from various spreadsheets I've saved links to, so I hope they are right
Not including the Ambassador (be quite a while before we are building these for general use)
Excelsior-A (Capital)
230BR 160SR | 6O 5E 5T | 7C 6S 4H 6L 6P 6D
Renaissance (Cruiser)
100BR 80SR | 3O 5E 3T | 5C 3S 4H 5L 4P 5D
Constellation-A (Cruiser)
70BR 50SR | 2O 4E 2T | C3 S4 H2 L3 P3 D4
So, which ship do we build? It depends on what we need.
For Combat purposes, the Renaissance is the more cost effective platform - the Excelsior-A is individually superior, but at more than twice the materials cost and 5 more crew units. The Constellation-A is cheaper still, but not by enough to compensate for the drop in numbers.
For Sector event purposes, the Constellation-A is the more cost effective platform, giving the cheapest S and P capacity, with viable though not great D.
For one ship to do everything, the Excelsior-A is the superior choice.
And what do we see being built?
According to the sheet I'm looking at, we have 9 Excelsior/Excelsior-A hulls on general duties (i.e. not Explorer Corp), each one serving as a Sector Garrison Flagship, or GBZ Task Force Flagship. There are at least 3 more currently under construction (one of which is the last base Excelsior we will build), I couldn't tell you how many of those three are for the general use pool though.
We have 7 Constellations, 2 of which are being upgraded to Constellation-A spec. All of these ships serve as internal Sector Garrison vessels.
We have 4 Renaissances, with 2 more under construction and 5 more pencilled in as possible new builds. All of the current units are found in the GBZ serving in the location most likely to experience combat.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The internals of the Constitution-B are notably behind our top-of-the-line hardware. We have every reason to think our competent rivals could design ships just as capable using their own hardware.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@Goat I think we have only 1 more EC Excelsior. So we will end up with 11 in the general pool. The plan is iirc to have 1 Excelsior per sector as a "flagship" with Mutual Support and Independent Captains likely meaning that we will be doubling them up in the Border Zones since that's where the majority of the action will take place and Mutual Support+Chen's bonus will allow for adequate coverage of home sectors. Home sectors are supposed to each be covered by a Constie-P (I believe two more are penciled in so we have 1 for each home sector). Otherwise, we want Rennies for areas that have potential combat needs and the upcoming Keplers to serve as our event response ships.
I will certainly argue for at least one regular fleet Amby to serve as the GBZ flag, at least if war hasn't broken out by 2325. The damn thing is an absolute combat beast-- it might only have +1C over an E-A, but it will have +3H/+3L over it. And thanks to the Science score, it's probably going to have an Evasion of 5-7% over anything it fights, which is insane.
I will certainly argue for at least one regular fleet Amby to serve as the GBZ flag, at least if war hasn't broken out by 2325. The damn thing is an absolute combat beast-- it might only have +1C over an E-A, but it will have +3H/+3L over it. And thanks to the Science score, it's probably going to have an Evasion of 5-7% over anything it fights, which is insane.
Stats are wrong. Rennaisance is 80SR. You've got the stats of a blooded Constellation-A there, without the veterancy it should be C3 S4 H2 L3 P3 D4.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Uh what spreadsheets are you looking at, because there's some misinformation that needs to be corrected.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
With the clarifications from the QM, revising my vote.
The Constitution-B is technically a current design still in use, but at this point, the schematics for it, being a combination of the very old and famous Constitution-A with some newer parts, are probably in the "open" by now, or at least known by the Romulans, Klingons, and Cardassians. So I'm willing to compromise the max tech threshold to include the Constitution-B.
[X][TAUNI] Constitution-B, Constellation, Miranda or Patroller-A Design
[X][FLEET] 2317 Fleet Distribution without shortchanging the LBZ
The Constitution-B is technically a current design still in use, but at this point, the schematics for it, being a combination of the very old and famous Constitution-A with some newer parts, are probably in the "open" by now, or at least known by the Romulans, Klingons, and Cardassians. So I'm willing to compromise the max tech threshold to include the Constitution-B.
[X][TAUNI] Constitution-B, Constellation, Miranda or Patroller-A Design
[X][FLEET] 2317 Fleet Distribution without shortchanging the LBZ
- Location
- Australia
Ah, yeah, they'd probably require Connie-A crewing.